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13283704 No.13283704 [Reply] [Original]

Was Socrates' suicide the ultimate act of courage or cowardice?

>> No.13283709

Nationalistic courage I'd say.

>> No.13283711


>> No.13283712

Neither. It was following the law to show how stupid it is.

>> No.13283756

He knew he couldn´t afford that rooster for Asklepios.

>> No.13283825

Suicide is worse than cowardice.
>Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer’s suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man’s crime is different from other crimes—for it makes even crimes impossible.

>> No.13283875

Correction: suicide was sin when the world and existence included good things. Right now you can insult all women, destroy all buildings, kill all men - and nothing of value can be lost.

>> No.13283889

I stopped reading at sin.

>> No.13283893

It's not really suicide. He was basically sentenced to death.

>> No.13283901

REEEEEEEEEE why won't you accept God's rules! He's not done smashing you against his other toys, you have no right to break yourself before he does!

>> No.13283915

betrayal of a close friend is a far worse sin than suicide. it is the worst transgression that dishonor abides. everyone agrees with me on this and nobody will agree with you if you try to prove me wrong. EAT SHIT

>> No.13283917

Sinning means 'missing the point'. Some do it intentionally.

>> No.13283922

>He's not done smashing you against his other toys
Islamic theology is fairly cruel, but it's not the only theology.

>> No.13283988

All religions Cucktestantism praise warriors. Caths have Charlemagne and the like Orthos have the Balkan warrior kings Jews have David and Solomon Tengrists have Chingis and most pagans have literal Gods of war.

>> No.13284107

This is Chad Chesterton. He can't be wrong.

>> No.13284111
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>> No.13284147

The more appropriate passage would have been his assessment of the differences between the martyr and the suicide.

>> No.13284163
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I think that he made a virtue of a necessity.

>> No.13284169


>> No.13284186

Socrates didn't commit suicide. He condemns suicide in Phaedo.

>> No.13284192


>> No.13284194

>praise warriors
That's entirely different from what I've pointed out. We are not God's puppets or toys (we are in fact, Satan's), we are God's children. That's a separate theology.

>> No.13284424


He's very close to realizing the magnanimity of Jesus, and like all Catholics quivers with terror at the realization.

>He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City

This is literally Jesus refusing Satan's offer. I would ask how is it possible that he doesn't realize it, but then again Catholics unironically don't read the Bible.

>> No.13284447

i didnt ask to live

>> No.13284507

Jesus sits in the garden in agony while Peter (the Church) sleeps..

>> No.13284547

They didn't do a good job of looking after his sons either. Aristotle claimed that became unremarkable fools and dullards.

>> No.13284568

So smarter than him.

>> No.13284705

It was all a piss take

>> No.13286262

There are different reasons by people do and have committed suicide. Romans, Greeks and Japanese had customs of honorable suicide as a punishment while maintaining honor.

>> No.13286475

What were the Roman and Greek customs?

>> No.13286500

What the actual fuck are you talking about you retarded fucking protestant

>> No.13286514


>> No.13286528

I mean, any rituals surrounding it? Any literature on it?

>> No.13286797

Actually retarded

>> No.13286864

It was an execution

>> No.13287183

>O Crito, I owe Asclepius a rooster

Socrates's entire philosophical project was actually the most elaborate suicide ever committed. The absolute madman.

>> No.13287629

>it was the ultimate IRL shitpost.
I will entertain this notion.

>> No.13287634

Neither. He was about 70. It was clearly better to die in his boots than scurry away to a lesser polis. Many others would have done the same. It is courageous, but not the ultimate act of courage. And it's not remotely cowardly. I don't know what autist would argue that.

>> No.13287659

Seneca tried to copy Socrates suicide but he botched.

Petronius, now that was a great shitpost suicide.

>He declined to tolerate further the delays of fear or hope; yet still did not hurry to take his life, but caused his already severed arteries to be bound up to meet his whim, then opened them once more, and began to converse with his friends, in no grave strain and with no view to the fame of a stout-hearted ending. He listened to them as they rehearsed, not discourses upon the immortality of the soul or the doctrines of philosophy, but light songs and frivolous verses. Some of his slaves tasted of his bounty, a few of the lash. He took his place at dinner, and drowsed a little, so that death, if compulsory, should at least resemble nature. Not even in his will did he follow the routine of suicide by flattering Nero or Tigellinus or another of the mighty, but — prefixing the names of the various catamites and women — detailed the imperial debauches and the novel features of each act of lust, and sent the document under seal to Nero. His signet-ring he broke, lest it should render dangerous service later

>> No.13287682

>It was clearly better to die in his boots than scurry away to a lesser polis.
He overtly states this somewhere.

>> No.13287704

TY, fren. I never got to Petronius.

>> No.13287710

Socrates is not real. Stop believing in a magic philosophy daddy.

>> No.13287767

Neither. It was what he had to do.

>> No.13287896

>betrayal of a close friend is a far worse sin than suicide
nobody, alive or dead, can prove this wrong

>> No.13288439

This is it

>> No.13288449

Everything /ourguy/ said about him in Twilight of the Idols was 100% correct

>> No.13288462


>> No.13288471

It was an act of integrity

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