/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13271233]

Philosophy fails to reach a consensus because philosophers try to identify a way to process our absurd existence in a non absurd way, yet fail to take account of the fact that for 185,000 of our 200,000 year history as modern humans we lived in the wild as nomads, hunting and foraging all day and not in cities and towns where we engage in a life of miserable, meaningless drudgery. Even if you refute a return to nature, you can't deny the flawed foundations of philosophy as civilisation being a neutral state of being for man.

[Anonymous No.13271239]

Philosophy is fuckign stupid.

[Anonymous No.13271243]

>>13271233
I don't care about your personal undergraduate musings, go read a book

[Anonymous No.13271247]

>>13271243
Muse on this *farts*

[Anonymous No.13271249]

>>13271243
I had no interest in academia or money, I got a job in a factory after I left school at 16.

[Anonymous No.13271257]

>>13271249
It shows.

[Anonymous No.13271262]

>>13271257
So leave my thread then.

[Anonymous No.13271292]

>>13271239
True

[Anonymous No.13271325]

Have you even read philosophy, at all? How could you say that “it” takes civilized man as a foundation? To philosophize you need to have time to think about other things then food which is easier done in a “civilized” society but many philosophers deny that that is the “natural” state of man or even outright reject the existence of an “human nature”. Read more.

[Anonymous No.13271431]

>>13271325
I have no interest in schizophrenics and their word salad, esoteric garbage philosophy

[Anonymous No.13271449]

>>13271233
Someone's never read nietzsche at caramba

[Anonymous No.13271451]

>>13271449
Neitzsche is a fucking tool.

>Haha dude just like invent your own meaning lol
If anyone else spouted this drivel you'd call them a brainlet zoomer.

[Anonymous No.13271453]

>>13271233
Not all philosophers argue that civilisation is a neutral state for man. A lot argue that man is a flawed concept in the first place that exists to maintain power hierarchies and preclude individuality.

[Anonymous No.13271459]

Philosophy fails to reach a consesus because, done right, it is merely a methodological examination: thought slowed down and scrutinised for unjustified assumptions and logical flaws that we otherwise don't notice given the pace with which our thoughts usually race through our minds.

How to reach a consesus given the multiplicity of thoughts to which we can target this methodology?

[Anonymous No.13271462]

>>13271233
I prefer literature and poetry to philosophy. Not because of your reasons, but because I've read enough of it to realize that I'm not the type of person that should dive too deep into it.

It's far more relaxing for me to pick up a non-fiction book once in a while and get in contact with the ideas written in them instead of trying to figure out the meaning of existence.

[Anonymous No.13271466]

>implying hunting and foraging isn't miserable, meaningless drudgery

[Anonymous No.13271467]

based and tedpilled

[Anonymous No.13271471]

Holy crap shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.13271483]

>>13271466
It's not.

When you're doing something your species has been designed over hundreds of thousands of years to do, it doesn't feel like a pointless task. It's like breathing, you just do it.

[Anonymous No.13271486]

[Anonymous No.13271489]

>>13271471
I know right? I mean frickin HECK, these /lit/ bozo's really tick me off! They really need to get the heck off this board.

[Anonymous No.13271495]

>>13271233
What's the point of this thread, you're such a retarded faggot

[Anonymous No.13271498]

>>13271495
What's the point of your life, you're such a retarded faggot.

[Anonymous No.13271502]

>>13271498
Doesn't make your thread any less stupid, you retarded faggot

[Anonymous No.13271511]

>>13271502
Doesn't make your life any less stupid, you retarded faggot.

[Anonymous No.13271523]

Even if man were to return to primitive times as your post tacitly suggests we would just end up recreating civilisation.
Someone will get sick. Their family will seek out someone to heal them. Healers will realise that they can make a lot of wealth if they start charging for their services. They'll write down healing methods. Here is the beginning of science.
In another part of the world crops will be scarce and the people there might resolve to go raiding. The surrounding areas will hear of this and will erect some form of militia in response. Here is the beginning of state and warfare.
People living in a place where food is plentiful might decide to trade with a place where bronze or iron is in abundance. Each side will want to make sure that the product they receive is good. Here is the beginning of trade and trade regulation.

[Anonymous No.13271529]

>>13271523
>we would just end up recreating civilisation
And if you go through the cycle enough times, you exhaust all the resources that would allow that to happen. This isn't a counterargument any more than saying we shouldn't cut our hair because it'd just grow back again.

[Anonymous No.13271532]

>>13271483
t. has never had a picking job

[Anonymous No.13271564]

>>13271532
t. retard

There's a difference between doing something for money and doing it so you don't starve to death

[Anonymous No.13271577]

>>13271529
>cut out hair analogy
If the person you are arguing with is asserting that growing is not the neutral/natural state of hair then it is a counter argument to show that hair always grows.
Secondly nobody is willing to relinquish their power and resources for a philosophy as wistful as anarcho primitivism. Do you think China and Russia wouldn't be sprawling for control of the US if it suddenly turned anarcho-primitivist? You are asking the whole world to spontaneously give up everything they have (modern medicine, convenience of air travel, comfortable living, etc) and go live in the fucking woods. If you're so discontent with modern living why don't you just become a backpacker and write about your travels?

[Anonymous No.13271585]

>>13271577
The feasability of an idea doesn't in any way affect it's validity.

>If you're so discontent with modern living why don't you just become a backpacker and write about your travels?
Because living alone in the woods is illegal in most of the world, borderline impossible due to the destruction of the environment and nothing like living as part of a tribe who raise their young since birth to know how to live and thrive in their surroundings

[Anonymous No.13271590]

>>13271233
modern western philosophy is searching for ways to deal with the new knowledge man has acquired, and how to find meaning within a society that has largely lost all of the grand narratives that used to bring meaning into human life. It doesn't view this civilization as a neutral state of man, it merely looks for ways to deal with the void, how human beings can find a moral compass and set their own goals.

[Anonymous No.13271630]

>>13271585
>The feasability of an idea doesn't in any way affect it's validity.
No but if the political philosophy you're going with is unattainable it becomes nothing more than a mental exercise in pessimism. I think it would probably be better if humans didn't need food to survive and had endless territory to explore but I'm not going to think, write, or advocate for this for more than two seconds because it is not feasible.
>Because living alone in the woods is illegal in most of the world
So? I've done backpacking myself and have had no trouble with it. Police aren't going to be scouring the woods at night looking for people. If you get a portable gas cooker and a camouflage tent you can absolutely sleep in the woods. Alternatively you can just go to the designated camping place and pay a little bit of money to sleep there.
>Alone
I didn't say alone. You can go with a friend or a girlfriend or even find other travellers while you're there.

[Anonymous No.13271718]

>>13271564
>There's a difference between doing something for money and doing it so you don't starve to death
Talk me through this one champ.

[Anonymous No.13271754]

>>13271233
This thread is a good example of why philosophers fail to reach a consensus.

[Anonymous No.13271762]

>>13271718
Well to take a page out of Kaczynski's book.

There's the shit that honestly truly matters: surviving. And then there's "surrogate activities". This can be anything from porn addiction to a career to woodworking as a hobby. Now, surrogate activities were born from the fact that modern man no longer has to worry about his basic needs for survival. They're there to replicate the feeling of purpose, reward etc.

So if I tell you "here's $50, go pick berries for 8 hours" and you go do it, then it's not going to do much for you. There's no threat of death from starvation bubbling near the surface, there's no primal survival drive pushing you to do it. You're doing it for the money, which you will likely use for other, more enjoyable surrogate activities.

>Well whatever makes me happy is good, right?
Well, no. Not really. It doesn't make much immediate sense but it should be obvious to anyone that humans aren't really better off just being happy all the time. Our bodies are like "Ok faggot, we're gonna go hunt that faggot deer we saw for 3 days, we're gonna subsist off berries and water until we catch it, and every day we'll be in danger of dying from a variety of things, and you're gonna hate being hungry, you're gonna love catching and killing that deer and you're gonna lay your head down after 3 days with a belly full of deer meat and sleep sounder next to your buddies than you have ever slept in your adult life". And in reality "Yeah, can I get a quarter pounder with extra cheese, pepsi, extra large fries. HEY JANICE YOU WANT EXTRA FRIES?...JAAAAANIIIIIICEEEE. Yeah so two extra large fries". Yeah, fine, you can swap that out with a nice expensive steak and salad combo but the sentiment is the same. Modern life is too easy, too divorced from nature and too fucking safe.

[Anonymous No.13271780]

>>13271325
the concept of a city is greatly discussed in pre christian philosophy, or pagan philosophy, whatever you call the greeks

Im on mobile so cant grab any screenshots from my books

[Anonymous No.13271886]

>>13271431
Was that esoteric to you? The most complicated word was philosophize

[Anonymous No.13271891]

>>13271233
So you're an absurdist?

[Anonymous No.13271899]

>>13271886
I was talking about the faggots who waste their time exploring whether free will exists, whether truth exists etc.

[Anonymous No.13271910]

>>13271780
That doesn't contradict the guy whom you replied.

[Anonymous No.13272574]

>>13271233
Philosophy hasn't reached a consensus because there is no possible consensus to be made. There will be no universal theory to existence within the limitations of perspective knowledge. To have this universality one must be completely unrestrained from experiencing every aspect of existence, every possible reality, state of being, non-being, and so on. Essentially you must be God to come to such a conclusion to existence. It's not because life is absurd, or we are living opposed to our evolution, it is because existence is vastly more complex than what animals can properly decipher. Attacking (western) philosophy for being predicated on some supposed flawed foundation entirely misses the actual problem; and the actual purpose of philosophy.

[Anonymous No.13272959]

>>13271239
fpbp

[Anonymous No.13272998]

>>13271762
>Well to take a page out of Kaczynski's book.
Stopped reading there desu

[Anonymous No.13273045]

>>13271239
Based

[Anonymous No.13273767]

>>13271243
academia babby

[Anonymous No.13273817]

>>13271233
>OP gets a soul crushing job at a shitty factory for YEARS
>Gets fucked in the head due to constant machinery, shitty working conditions, low pay, and annoying co-workers
>Gets fucked further because only affordable food is low quality freezer food because pay gets cut in half by the taxman
>His head is still spinning and his ears are ringing from a 16+ hr work day at Hell Inc. Factory 666
>Knees hurt from constant stone floor
>Back hurts too
>Rest of body also hurts
>OP tries to read philosophy because something about his existence doesn't feel right
>Opens up some good ol' Aristotle
>"Some should rule and others be ruled. It is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule."
>OP throws the book out and comes to /lit/ to post about how philosophers suck

[Anonymous No.13273835]

>>13271233
>OP gets a soul crushing job at a shitty factory for YEARS
>Gets fucked in the head due to constant machinery, shitty working conditions, low pay, and annoying co-workers
>Gets fucked further because only affordable food is low quality freezer food because pay gets cut in half by the taxman
>His head is still spinning and his ears are ringing from a 16+ hr work day at Hell Inc. Factory 666
>Knees hurt from constant stone floor
>Back hurts too
>Rest of body also hurts
>OP tries to read philosophy because something about his existence doesn't feel right
>Opens up some good ol' Aristotle
>"Some should rule and others be ruled. It is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule."
>Opens up some Plato instead
>"Nature herself intimates that it is just for the better to have more than the worse, the more powerful than the weaker; and in many ways she shows, among men as well as among animals, and indeed among whole cities and races, that justice consists in the superior ruling over and having more than the inferior."
>OP decides to read Aquinas instead
>"For men of outstanding intelligence naturally take command, while those who are less intelligent but of more robust physique, seem intended by nature to act as servants"
>OP throws the book out and comes to /lit/ to post about how philosophers suck

[Anonymous No.13273843]

>>13273817
>>13273835
Damn it I double posted. I'm such a fucking loser. Fuck man why can't I ever just do something right. Why don't I have a skill or a talent or a passion. Oh right, it's my fault. Whoops.

[Anonymous No.13274448]

>>13271243
cringed weasel poster

[Anonymous No.13274467]

>>13271754
We all agree, OP is demonstratively retarded

[Anonymous No.13274475]

>>13273843
your posts were still valuable contributions. dont shame shank yourself friendo

[Anonymous No.13274499]

I think everyone is focused too much on (specifically regarding the issues being discussed here) the way in which survival is secured, and then the subsequent experience of meaninglessness in what fills up peoples free time.

I think the most marked difference between pre-civilization and now is the sense of togetherness and shared destiny, community, etc that a tribe would have compared to the isolation we now experience. Tribal living is ideal for the human brain and organism. Think about this some more. There is not as much of a nagging emptiness to make you question what is the meaning of things. It would only be natural for someone so isolated and stressed and enslaved to ask that question. In a tribe, you know everyone your whole life, like a huge family - you weren't raised in an sectioned off house with 4 walls kept from the outside world. You were raised by a gigantic family. You see old people die, you see children born. Everyone sits or dances round the fire every night, everything is shared, everything belongs to everyone. This might be somewhat over idealized admittedly, but there is still something worth considering.

If we can restore at least more of a sense of that natural social environment, it would probably immensely help the mental health of everyone

[Anonymous No.13274577]

>>13274499
>>13274499
I agree. We seem to live in separate bubbles of consciousness, where others are just a background to our own experience. Sharing your everyday experience with others makes it feel more meaningful in itself. Problem is that our social cricles have grown due to social media. This has spread out our focus across a wider range of people, making any individual contact more expendable and less valuable. This lack of deeper emotional relationships also contributes to the isolation I think.
I'm not really fit to comment on the situation as a whole though, because I've been isolated in my room for so long I can't even count the days.

[Anonymous No.13274850]

>>13271233
yea no shit

[Anonymous No.13274999]

>>13271257
Fuck off, reddit fag.

[Anonymous No.13275023]

>>13271325
>an human
An what?

[Anonymous No.13275039]

>>13271233
This seems like something a kid would say. Go start reading any philosohy for a few months then come back to your post

[Anonymous No.13275049]

>>13271325
>Have you even read philosophy
Have you? Your criticisms don't connect sweaty. And you aren't dealing with what was said.
Read less, think more.

[Anonymous No.13275065]

Read Against Leviathan, Against His-story. It's basically history and philosophy from a mythic and primitivist perspective.

[Anonymous No.13275111]

>>13271239
*Western philosophy, because it's not practical

[Anonymous No.13275124]

>>13273835
Just because there is difference and hierarchy doesn't mean that any iteration of difference and hierarchy is good. The instance is inferior to the form.
Perhaps most interesting is that your quotes show a growing impoverishment in this understanding, so perhaps there is more to what the OP is saying than some of us want to admit.
Pictured, three lobster-souled, not by birth or value, but the collective desire of the state of total impoverishment.

[Anonymous No.13275563]

>>13271486
underrated

[Anonymous No.13275627]

>>13271486
>>13275563
Funny, but not applicable.

[Anonymous No.13275630]

>>13274999
Why don't nufags checkem?

[Anonymous No.13275645]

>>13271243
>>13271257
extremely based

[Anonymous No.13275744]

>>13275645
Wrong, samefag.
>>13274999
This was based.

[Anonymous No.13275956]

>>13274499
That sounds like shit. You would want to share everything (especially your wife), you fucking cuck. Read Aristotle you fucking plebeian leftist.

[Anonymous No.13276136]

>>13275956
>Read Aristotle
Yikes

[Anonymous No.13276548]

>>13271486
Everything is perfect besides that "...and stuff" line.

[Anonymous No.13276680]

>>13271233
Imagine believing that consensus is truth?

[Anonymous No.13276687]

>>13271451
so, wheres the flaw in this kind of thinking, mr smartass?

[Anonymous No.13276846]

>>13271233
Define philosophy

[Anonymous No.13276855]

>>13271762
>And then there's "surrogate activities"

I smell a philosophy

[Anonymous No.13276857]

>>13271899
You can't have much in the way of justice if you don't base this justice in whether free will exists or not. Maybe we are better off murdering everyone we suspect of murdering?

[Anonymous No.13276889]

>>13271262
Make me faggot

[Anonymous No.13276905]

>>13276857
Maybe we are

[Anonymous No.13278327]

>>13271233
Read Rousseau.

[Anonymous No.13278451]

>>13271630
Is there something true, inside us ? People talk of thinking, and you learn them as knowledge. But you have to think by yourself these thoughts : lose knowledge. It's like learnin from a master, or finding it by yourself...
I like the man that doesn't dépend on other ones ...
>>13271462
Poetry / theory : some words are beautiful and true, and lead you somwhere you like : so you explain poetry by a theory. But it came from a poetry : theory / poetry live together

[Anonymous No.13278465]

>>13278451
(To love life / what you know / be yourself)

[Anonymous No.13278479]

>>13271233
>the fact that for 185,000 of our 200,000 year history as modern humans we lived in the wild as nomads, hunting and foraging all day and not in cities and towns where we engage in a life of miserable, meaningless drudgery.
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.13278616]

>>13271233
Read Rousseau's theory of human nature OP.

[Anonymous No.13279365]

>>13271233
Best way to approach it is "Stuff happened, shit changed." Nothing more, nothing less.