/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13271165]

Can creativity exist under fascism?

>what are some books on this subject disclaimer

[R Æ V S S Q A N D V S !KNDYYIIins No.13271173]

>>13271165

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE MUTUALLY CONFLATING NATIONALSOCIALISM, AND FASCISM; IF SO, YOU ARE IN ERROR.

[Anonymous No.13271174]

>>13271165
You must be not be aware of the urban centers Hilter himself had envisioned

Everybody wants fascism. The left want it most of all.

[Anonymous No.13271199]

There were German films made under the regime you could watch

Of course in a pluralistic society there is more range for creativity at least in the past; creators don't have to worry whether their film corresponds to the socialist or nationalist or communist agenda of their respective states and societies. The USSR came up with some kino films after the war and the bulk of the strife so I don't see why an NSDAP controlled Germany couldn't assuming it survived somehow, I even think it'd have greater potential considering the theatric nature of the Reich and the propensity for romanticism. Film is a more appropriate form of art for these ideologically totalitarian societies though, literature might find it more difficult to conform and still maintain its worth. What great writers did the USSR produce? None of note I know of, the only Russian writers of its existence were the ones who fled from it like Nabakov, or Solzhenitsyn who had to publish all but one (admittedly one of his best) works outside in the West.

[Anonymous No.13271201]

>>13271173
No it does not seem like that since Hitler was both.

Also to answer OP's question: Only to a small degree.
Also read Doctor Faustus by Thomas Mann. It is made by an artist disliked by the nazis about an artist making a deal with satan, an allegory on the things that happened to the German people.
It may be interesting since many artists made such pacts. Look at people like Gustaf Gründgens (Maybe rrad Mephisto, a book written by another Mann) and Richard Strauss who "pacted with the devil".

[Anonymous No.13271208]

Creativity can ONLY exist under fascism

[R Æ V S S Q A N D V S !KNDYYIIins No.13271216]

>>13271201

NATIONALSOCIALISM, AND FASCISM, ARE TWO MUTUALLY DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES THAT ARE DISTINCT IN THEMSELVES, AND NEITHER ONE DERIVES FROM, NOR IS COMPREHENDED BY, THE OTHER.

[Anonymous No.13271219]

>>13271173
Nazism is a subset of fascism you fucking retard. Hitler literally modeled his movement on Mussolini's. Fascism is a term that's used to describe the palingenetic ultranationalist movements of the 20th century, most scholars use this definition, and fascist themselves did, whether they were aware of it or not.

This is literally just an argument of semantics of what the definition of fascism should be, not whether the movements I recalled formed part of a common creed.

[Anonymous No.13271228]

>>13271216
No.
National Socialism is a relatively clear defined ideology.
Fascism is relatively losely defined. You can just call nationalistic, militaristic dictatorships fascist. National socialism can and did exist in a fascist system.

[Anonymous No.13271236]

>>13271228
>You can just call nationalistic, militaristic dictatorships fascist

Wrong this is why Francoist Spain or Peronist Argentina are not considered fascist. Fascist requires synthesis of totalitariansm, ultranationalism and palingenesis.

[Anonymous No.13271242]

>>13271165
Creativity can only exist under fascism.

[Anonymous No.13271244]

>>13271208
>>13271242
explain

[Anonymous No.13271245]

>>13271236
>Wrong this is why Francoist Spain or Peronist Argentina are not considered fascist

They are though

[Anonymous No.13271258]

>>13271245
No serious scholar on fascism would ever consider them fascist. Even the Nazis and Italian fascists were disappointed by Francos suppression of the Spanish fascists, the Falange and his creation of a conservative authoritarian state rather that of fascism proper. They are often described as para-fascism due to common beliefs such as nationalism and authoritarianism.

[R Æ V S S Q A N D V S !KNDYYIIins No.13271291]

>>13271228

NATIONALSOCIALISM IS NATIONALISTIC.

FASCISM IS STATIST.


NATIONALSOCIALISM IS SOCIALISTIC.

FASCISM IS CORPORATIVISTIC.


NATIONALSOCIALISM IS MARTIALISTIC.

FASCISM IS BELLICOSE.


NATIONALSOCIALISM IS MILITARISTIC.

FASCISM IS ARMAMENTISTIC.


NATIONALSOCIALISM IS FOLKISTIC.

FASCISM IS NATIVISTIC.


ET CETERA.


IF YOU ARE WILLING TO LEARN, I SUGGEST THAT YOU READ THE ARTICLE TO WHICH I LINK HERE:

http://aryanism.net/politics/national-socialism-and-fascism/

[Anonymous No.13271305]

>>13271291
>Haha look guys, SEMANTICS.

None of these things exclude themselves in reality. Hitler did not think to himself:
>"Oh boy I will make a state like Mussolini but MILITARISTIC not ARMAMENTISTIC".

Also
>aryanism.net

Fuck off

[Anonymous No.13271309]

>>13271291
Wow, this is pretty gay bro, why don't you care about something that's not bullshit

[Anonymous No.13271328]

>>13271291
Nazis were not socialists just cause they have socialism in their name you dumb cunt. Most of the socialists left the Nazi party when it took a capitalist turn. This is like saying China is communist because it's ruled by the communist party or North Korea is democratic because the party has democratic in its name.

[Anonymous No.13271335]

hitler survived world war 2, look, here's a picture

[Anonymous No.13271338]

There are enough historical arguments that favour the view that under streng regimes of control, the greatest heights of artistic merit can be reached.

(enough arguments for free art exist as well, of course)

[Anonymous No.13271343]

>>13271242
let me guess
war is peace?

[Anonymous No.13271369]

>>13271335
>ywn play xbox with an optimistic hitler
curious feel

[Anonymous No.13271373]

Remember: Communism and Fascism are weeds from the same root (Socialism).

[Anonymous No.13271405]

>>13271165
Yes, read Rebatet, Chardonne, Morand, Drieu la Rochelle, Chateaubriant, Brasillach,Montherlant
Celine I would put aside

[Anonymous No.13271423]

>>13271165
it's true that on an individual level strict scheduling and self-discipline are the keys to unlocking creativity, so why would it not also be true collectively?

[Anonymous No.13271425]

>>13271165
no it cannot,because a postcard painter is the one who defines what is art and what is not.

[Anonymous No.13271432]

>>13271338
Aren't those greatest heights a longing for freedom?

[Anonymous No.13271437]

>>13271373
>equating collectivism with socialism

[Anonymous No.13271445]

>>13271343
You know that book was about communism, right? Take a look around you at what leftist governments are doing worldwide. But, let me guess. It’s okay when you do it. Nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide, eh? You’re unironically brainwashed.

[Anonymous No.13271465]

>>13271165
Fascism is very creative before it actually comes to power.

[Anonymous No.13271488]

>>13271335
Looks unironically comfy

[Anonymous No.13271500]

>>13271445
Back
To
Pol

[Anonymous No.13271526]

>>13271165
Its perpetuates creativity as a "thing", but restrains creativity that it deems "degenerate".

[Anonymous No.13271561]

>>13271291
You are conflating fascism and Fascism.
One being a relatively loosely defined ideology based upon nationalism and militarism and a few other key concepts and the other being a specific instance of fascism in Italy during the interwar and WW2 period.

National socialism is a form of fascism and definitely not a form of Fascism.

[Anonymous No.13271567]

>>13271561
its usually called classical fascism or italian fascism

[Anonymous No.13271571]

>>13271500
no, we're here to stay. take your HRT and go back to namefagging.

[Anonymous No.13271573]

>>13271567
Call it whatever you like, he is still conflating these terms.

[Anonymous No.13271596]

>>13271500

[Anonymous No.13271619]

>>13271573
agreed

[Anonymous No.13271621]

>>13271571
>>13271596
>Le tranny boogeyman

[Anonymous No.13271631]

>>13271621
>le pol boogeyman

[Anonymous No.13271683]

>>13271208
>>13271242
came here to post this

Creativity requires a certain naivety, and without an overarching political entity, human beings cannot be naive. Fascism, and totalitarianism in general, removes the need to worry about the political, and to a certain extent the economic, which then allows the individual to become naive again, and to return to a state where he can daydream about the future.

God I wish I lived under fascism.

[Anonymous No.13271705]

>>13271445
oh sure mister cattle,I'm so brainwashed to don't want a fucking bureaucrat sniffing at my ass at every single action i take,both socialism and nazism are CANCERS to people freedom,if you didnt had a father to guide you while you were a child doesnt mean EVERYONE NEEDS A GOVERNMENT TO CONTROL EVERYONE FATE,its impressive how the cattle wants a farmer to guide everyone.

[Anonymous No.13271760]

>>13271437
you know that the bases of socialism is collectivism ?

[R Æ V S S Q A N D V S !KNDYYIIins No.13271773]

>>13271760

NATIONALSOCIALISM IS PERSONALISTIC AND SOCIAL —ID EST: THE COMMON WELFARE DOES NOT PRECLUDE INDIVIDUALITY, AND INDIVIDUAL WELLBEING MUST NECESSARILY BE IN CONCORD WITH COMMONALITY.

[Anonymous No.13271798]

>>13271760
Its not as a philosophy but alright. The point is that simply because something as a thing in common with another does not mean it is that thing.

[Anonymous No.13271826]

>>13271228
what a fucking brainlet

[Anonymous No.13271832]

>>13271773
maybe thats why industries were FORCED to stop producing y to produce x ? almost like the government was the real owner of the business.

[Anonymous No.13271861]

>>13271832
this is the most brainlet opinion on economics ive ever seen

[Anonymous No.13271866]

>>13271165
Deutsche Physik
Deutsche Math

Etc yes there is a lot of creativity, in fact goebbels supported Expressionism etc

[Anonymous No.13271884]

>>13271236
>>13271258
>this denial
They were fascists
>>13271219
This isn't semantics, they are different systems and you'd realize this if you read a fucking book outside of high school's choices

[Anonymous No.13271920]

>>13271884
>you are wrong and dumb

wow im convinced

[Anonymous No.13271933]

>>13271861
instead of arguing the "high iq aryan" prefers to attack me :) what a novelty.
admit to yourself snow nigger your never studied economy you are ARTICLE READER nothing more.

[Anonymous No.13271959]

>>13271933
I mean if you want to conflate governmental pressure and influence on corporate powers to ensure the states will is paramount (basically state capitalism in a very similar vein of the current Chinese government) with state socialism, the explicit confiscation and collectivization towards a centralized state power, go right ahead. No need to bring race matters into, as insecure as you may be.

[Anonymous No.13271991]

Yes, dumbass. If anything the systems of control in modern liberal countries do more to stifle free expression and control thought than the National Socialists or Fascist could have ever dreamed of doing. We are fucked beyond all recognition and all the more because we think what we are provided with is freedom.

[Anonymous No.13271997]

>>13271165
Yes of course. Look at Leni Riefenstahl.

[Anonymous No.13271999]

>>13271208
Sarcasm?

[Anonymous No.13272004]

>>13271683
very based post

[Anonymous No.13272015]

>>13271959
dumb snow nigger,i know you cant see,but let me explain to your 5 iq brain.

confiscation was a measure that nazis used against jews stores,which you can't deny.
second,makes no difference between a direct government aggression to a business and creation of laws which benefit certain corporation(as happens in China and US today)
the only difference is that the cattle like you don't see the second measure as aggression
but both will give government POWER to control the life of corporations.

i know my english is not very good,but you should understand.

[Anonymous No.13272035]

this thread has been killed by /pol/ snow niggers arguing if nazism=socialism or not

[Anonymous No.13272038]

>>13271165
The problem is OP we saw the initial stages of fascism, the bloody revolutionary stages, the suppression of their enemies and the establishment of their ideology and their aesthetic. We say only this before it was wiped from the planet. Fascism I think could have projected society in a direction towards creative expression, without the deviancy and obscureness of say postmodernism and the whole consumer "paradise" it entangles. Under the correct authoritarian leadership we may return to life affirming beauty, we may have seen a return to the greats of Romanticism, given twenty, forty years of victory, but alas-it was not so.

[Anonymous No.13272043]

democracy = dictatorship of the majority

[Anonymous No.13272044]

>>13271920
For starters, fascism isn't an umbrella term for ultranationalism of the 20th century. Economically, the nazis believed in war as an engine for the economy, fascism had a closed door state owned let's do everything ourselves policy which is the exact opposite of the mass privatization the nazis did when they got to power.
You could even argue that you couldn't possibly pull an eugenic racist policy in Italy because of the racial differences between northern and southern Italians but that's a mixed bag

[Anonymous No.13272077]

>>13272015
>dumb snow nigger
>i know my english is not very good

Imagine insulting somebody when you can't even do so properly in their language. Any how, it is a very different form of aggression as I just explained and cannot be considered a form of socialism if state powers allow free enterprise to exist. There are other words for what you are talking about, corporatism for example. It doesn't make it socialist, in the same way that neoliberal America isn't socialist simply because it enforces laws against child pornography or methamphetamine. You can call it aggression I couldn't care less, states have always exerted their power to some degree, that doesn't make it socialist.

[Anonymous No.13272088]

>>13272044
"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
Mussolini

facism can be easy defined by government doing government things,as closing and stealing jews or putting people in trouble for not selling cakes for gays.

[Anonymous No.13272109]

>>13272044

[Anonymous No.13272112]

>>13272077

obviously you don't care you are part of the cattle,it allows CERTAIN ENTERPRISES TO EXIST,for example you cant create a money with a ballast in gold as it used to be in ~1800,theres no difference between aggression and the illusion of free competition as the state can print more money and steal peoples money and give to idk GOOGLE FOR EXAMPLE,corporatism socialism nazism are just different words which guides people to the same fate,the fate which people are slaves,i bet you will change your mind in 10 years,when things really begin to be clear.

[Anonymous No.13272120]

>>13272088
The nazis privatized the shit out of everything

[Anonymous No.13272125]

>>13272112
Printing money kills the economy, it doesn't control it
>>13272109
Great argument you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.13272126]

>>13272112
I mean you could easily have just you are an Nietzschean, but that doesn't mean there aren't different types of collectivism.

[Anonymous No.13272145]

>>13272125

Now THIS will be my last response to you retards

PRINTING MONEY IS USED BY ALL COUNTRIES,its not injected DIRECTLY NOT GIVEN FOR EVERYONE,its sometimes given to certain business as form of subsidies,which kills the competition or create the famous economic bubbles,maybe you don't know but the USD aka the most valuable fiat is getting lower and lower in value

now understand how it controls people you dont need to read the text below,but if you are a retard DO IT.

when you print money YOU FOOL INVESTORS,you create a long term "inflation",and thats how the government STEALS YOUR MONEY WITHOUT CHARGING ANYTHING,THEY REMOVE THE VALUE OF YOURS.

[Anonymous No.13272187]

>>13272145
that's dumb
print money is just what happens when you have a bank that has a monopoly at a certain level of the financial sector (i.e. central banks).

Once that bank has a monopoly, it's main purpose is determining the value of currency through its policies. There's no difference between fractional reserve banking that uses gold, and fractional reserve banking that uses the dollar. It's just a few levels of abstraction higher.

>inb4 le american world dominance
Actual national value is not in money or gold, but in brick and mortar buildings, munitions and arsenal, and people (from a racial and numerical perspective). Just because you use the US dollar does not mean you are dependent on it.

[Anonymous No.13272246]

>>13272125
I mean whats your argument? You have such a poor understand of fascism and economics its not even worth replying too.

[Anonymous No.13272250]

>>13272187
>from a racial and numerical perspective

[Anonymous No.13272254]

>>13271291
An hero now, you semantic-arguing slimy fascist pig.

[Anonymous No.13272276]

>>13272250
?

[Anonymous No.13272312]

>>13271705
>freedom
What idiots actually believe in freedom? What basis do you have that people deserve to have freedom, what have the people of the West really accomplished with this freedom we have unleashed?
"Yου call yourself free? Let me hear your ruling thoughts, and not that you have escaped bondage. Are you one who deserved to escape from it? There are many who threw away their only worth when they threw away their servitude. Free from what? Why should Zarathustra care? Your eyes should answer plainly: free from what?"

[Anonymous No.13272317]

>>13272187

>There's no difference between fractional reserve banking that uses gold, and fractional reserve banking that uses the dollar

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKIIIIIIIIIIIIIING RETARRRRRRRRRDDDDDD

WITH GOLD AND WITHOUT CENTRAL BANK,THEY CANT PRINT MONEY SO THERES NO INFLATION BTW YOU KNOW WHAT INFLATION MEANS?INFLATION DOESNT MEAN YOUR DILDO IS NOW MORE EXPENSIVE IT MEANS MONEY LOST ITS VALUE BY EXPANSION

MONEY USED TO BE CERTIFICATES OF GOLD,IF I REMEMBER IT RIGHT 1 DOLAR = 1/20 TROY GOLD
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WORLD WIDE CURRENCIES WERE THAT SOME CURRENCIES HAD MORE GOLD INTO 1 CERTIFICATE.


CENTRAL BANKS CANT DETERMINE THE EXACT PRICE OF MONEY,BECAUSE MONEY IS A PRODUCT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE

>Just because you use the US dollar does not mean you are dependent on it.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHY DO YOU EXIST,ITS IN THE NAME FORCED MONEY FORCED COURSE

FUCKING DUMB NAZIS,74 YEARS LATER OF TIRANNY AND STILL LICKING OLD ADOLF BOOTS.

[Anonymous No.13272318]

>>13271705
>freedom
What idiots actually believe in freedom? What basis do you have that people deserve to have freedom, what have the people of the West really accomplished with this freedom we have unleashed?
>"Yου call yourself free? Let me hear your ruling thoughts, and not that you have escaped bondage. Are you one who deserved to escape from it? There are many who threw away their only worth when they threw away their servitude. Free from what? Why should Zarathustra care? Your eyes should answer plainly: free fom what?"

[Anonymous No.13272327]

>>13271705
>freedom
What idiots actually believe in freedom? What basis do you have that people deserve to have freedom, what have the people of the West really accomplished with this freedom we have unleashed?
>"Yου call yourself free? Let me hear your ruling thoughts, and not that you have escaped bondage. Are you one who deserved to escape from it? There are many who threw away their only worth when they threw away their servitude. Free from what? Why should Zarathustra care? Your eyes should answer plainly: free for what?"

[Anonymous No.13272335]

>>13272327
you done, retard?

[Anonymous No.13272354]

>>13271165
Of course it can.
Most of history's literature was written under what many would describe as fascistic in terms of authoritarianism, hierarchy, order, nationalism etc.

[Anonymous No.13272363]

>>13272327
have you ever heard about the so called "wild" west ?
no i bet you don't like to read history but only low tier philosophers like nietzsche

>What basis do you have that people deserve to have freedom

ethic.
and remember you are part of "people" you are not some billionare i guess,so i ask you now,you wish to be free or to be forced to pay services you don't use or care? forced to use fake paper money.

now its enough.

[Anonymous No.13272382]

>>13271432
And how does that contradict that fascism is good for creative types? At least for creative purposes, it's what i'm asking.

[Anonymous No.13272384]

>>13272363
>the wild west
Please stop.

[Anonymous No.13272394]

>>13272363
>ethic
What ethic?
>forced to pay services you don't use or care
Yes, I'm a nationalist, so I believe high taxes should be payed to the government so that they can distribute services such as healthcare and education, which improve the wellbeing of the entire population and collectively advance society.
I am a strong supporter of the Nordic model. If you have been to those countries then you would understand what a prosperous people is. Though I know Americans are incapable of this.

[Anonymous No.13272400]

>>13272384
have you ever studied the "wild" west? or everything you know about that place is what you ve learn from clint eastwood movies made in italy?

read "not so wild wild west"

[Anonymous No.13272413]

>>13272394
whats ethic?

did i wrote it wrong or something?
for a low iq like you i will keep it simple,is it RIGHT AND FAIR TO FORCE SOMEONE TO PAY FOR A SERVICE THEY WONT USE?

>Yes, I'm a nationalist, so I believe high taxes should be payed to the government so that they can distribute services such as healthcare and education

study what happen before year 2000 fucking bernie sanders ball licker

[Anonymous No.13272433]

>>13272413
What government services do you not use? You don't use roads and garbage pickup? You didn't get an education or take a public bus?
I'm sure you won't be a libertarian once you're an old man in need of medical attention.
Though I understand the American mindset, to an extent. I would not want to pay any taxes at all in that country just to see it go to treating black gang members' gunshot wounds and mexican foodstamps.

[Anonymous No.13272498]

>>13272246
Yeah, sure thing, buddy.

>>13272394
Oh look, a fucking retard. The "nordic model" whatever the fuck that would be, isn't what the leftists in your country have lead you to believe. High taxes kill the economy too. "Redistribution" absolutely destroys it. Economy works via incentives, if you remove that, you cripple the economy in the long term

[Anonymous No.13272544]

>>13272317
relax retard. Do you know what fractional reserve banking is? The bank uses a fraction of its reserves to cover a disproportional amount of money. If you extend this logic and add new data gathering and analysis technology into the mix, then gold is no longer needed, since the bank can create the monetary policy of nation, in a way that benefits the economy.

[Anonymous No.13272848]

>>13272544
do you KNOW WHAT IS IT?

DO YOU KNOW THAT THE MAJORITY OF MONEY DOESNT EXIST EXCEPT IN COMPUTERS NUMBERS?

NOTHING BUT FRAUD,BUT GUESS THE CATTLE DOESNT CARE

YOU DESERVE EVERYTHING,22TRI USD DEBT.

TIC TIC TIC ITS GOING TO EXPLODE FAGGOT.

[Anonymous No.13272871]

>>13272544
thats why you are a slave,you prefer to blindly protect bankers which steal you by frauds than being reasonable with someone whos trying to help,i dont even think you can read something i think you don't have the freedom to chose,you are just a npc,calling me a retard and explaining things to try to sound superior even being anon,i hope you die or wake up,SLAVE.

[Anonymous No.13272876]

>>13272498
the only incentive market should have is the desire of people to consume.

[Anonymous No.13272904]

>>13272848
>>13272871
you're stupid
central banks own you as much as the military does. At some point they become so big, that they become the curators of society and nothing else.

[Anonymous No.13273006]

>>13272904
i see the destiny exists and its hard as steel i cannot change the slave mindset,im sorry and good luck.

[Anonymous No.13273030]

>>13273006
relax Kiyosaki

[Anonymous No.13273057]

>>13271683
we live in a neo-absolutist society at this given moment

[Anonymous No.13273069]

>>13273057
Yeah, you're kinda right. There's still too much freedom for my liking though.

[Anonymous No.13273486]

>>13272317
He's right. When the federal reserve creates new money it feeds into the national debt that we all collectively owe them back.

[Anonymous No.13273498]

>>13273006
What is it with Leftists and absolutely refusing to see that banks are cancerous arms of elite control

[Anonymous No.13273557]

>>13271343
this is why no one can take the left seriously anymore

[Anonymous No.13273945]

>>13271165
No, Nazi art was shit and Hitler himself told people to not compose new music or some shit like that.

[Anonymous No.13273951]

>>13273557
back to facebook, boomer buddy

[Anonymous No.13273954]

>>13271236
>Francoist Spain
>not considered fascists
Whew can you antifas just try not to look dumb?

[Anonymous No.13274002]

>>13271165
Fascism and National Socialism are two very distinct ideologies. Neither precludes creativity or indeed freedom, but NatSoc in particular emphasizes that "freedom" means "the ability to do what is best for yourself and your people," it precludes self-destructive and antisocial behavior.

Of course in practice like all ideologies it impacts human nature and self-destructs, but frankly it's better than naive classical liberalism, which we know because the ultimate expression of liberalism was the Weimar Republic and it resulted in the Third fucking Reich, and the only alternative to that would've been the KPD taking over and turning it into East Germany 20 years earlier.

If you reorientate your political worldview to view democracy and liberal capitalism as a transitionary state between feudalism and X, with X either being communism or fascism, this all suddenly makes sense. The entire notion of liberty as a value is laughable, as soon as you give it to people, they vote to restrict it, and they will continue to vote to restrict it until there is nothing left to restrict. Look at the nations that most firmly implemented liberal democracy, Britain, the USA, Japan post WWII, and look at the trajectory they are on.

Britain is ALREADY at post-1984 levels of dystopian authoritarianism, they just put flowers and gay pride flags on it to disguise it.

The USA literally has multiple intelligence agencies whose only job it is to deceive the public. The Office of Special Plans under Richard Pearl outright said that lying to the public is the only way to get them to do what the government wants.

Japan is effectively an oligarchy run by a handful of Zaibatsus and a mandarin-style assembly of unelected politicians under a thin veneer of democratic rule.

All of these people are still capable of creativity, but all of these people are essentially ruled by invisible star chambers of bankers, unelected bureacrats and dynastic power brokers. Fascism was at least honest about its intentions, there was nothing invisible about the NSDAP's total dominance of Germany, in fact they celebrated it. The most destructive thing towards creativity are unspoken rules and taboos, when the rules and taboos are explicit, an artist can engage them directly, when they are unspoken and invisible, he is treading in an eternal minefield of cultural intolerance that shifts daily.

To pare it down, a writer in North Korea probably has an easier time being creative than a writer in America, because the writer in North Korea has a handbook that says what he isn't allowed to do, whereas in America, a cabal of Jews whose names you don't even know can retroactively crucify you for transgressions you never knew you committed against rules you were never told twenty years ago.

Which would you prefer? A universe of invisible bandsaws controlled by people who hate you, or a universe with more bandsaws, but they are clearly labeled and visible?

[Anonymous No.13274015]

>>13274002
Nazis lost because they were defeated in a world war, their system never collapsed and it was actually strong as fuck, leading them to build some of the largest buildings of the time.

[Anonymous No.13274051]

>>13271165
They collected art obsessively.

[Anonymous No.13274053]

>>13274015
First, don't use the term Nazi. It was invented by a Jew to mock the NSDAP. It's sort of like calling all of American democracy "Libtards," it was meant to be demeaning, and NatSocs who use it are essentially calling themselves niggers.

Anyway as to your point, I'm not contesting that, by any means, but some of the economic policies of the NSDAP were so far ahead of their time that they actually undermined their own efficiency. If you read The Vampire Economy (an admittedly biased and totally unfair assessment, but with many good citations if you read the source material) the Germans were essentially dealing with 21st century planning problems in the early 20th century. Like most Teutonic idealistic movements, they felt they need to push decades ahead of their actual capabilities instead of taking a more gradual approach.

The Soviets encountered the same problem with central planning, which they were on the verge of solving when the system collapsed. I forget the project's name but it was essentially a unified C&C system for the state to automate centralized production.

When I say that the system impacted human nature, I am not saying that the system was WRONG, only that it moved too quickly. Most people incorrectly view National Socialism as a reactionary ideology when in fact, it was revolutionary. Revolutions tend to change things too radically and too quickly for their current means.

[Anonymous No.13274055]

>>13271199
Gorky is pretty good as far as Soviet writers go.

[Anonymous No.13274057]

moreso than democracy, of course. Absolute monarchy, however, *smacks lips* NOW THAT'S WHEN I'LL GET REAL CREATIVE.

Also, Nazi Germany was one of the most creative nations of all time. Just look at the holocoaster and technology. It's obvious that a plethora of new ideas were created then

[Anonymous No.13274075]

>>13274002
>Britain is ALREADY at post-1984 levels of dystopian authoritarianism
i hope that nobody sincerely believes this

[Anonymous No.13274083]

>>13274057
If half of what was admitted to the Nuremberg trials were true, the Germans could have put men on the moon in 1940. I mean the electrified floors alone basically defy all known laws of convection, I guess they just decided not to electrocute the entire Atlantic Ocean at D-Day because Hitler was an environmentalist.

Think of the whales!

[Anonymous No.13274085]

>>13274075
They are definitely not a democracy, their government denied the brexit referendum

[Anonymous No.13274100]

>>13274085
denying garbage ideas doesn't make them an orwellian dystopia

[Anonymous No.13274110]

>>13274100
It makes them not a democracy. The entire voting process is clearly just a charade meant to satisfy the proles' thirst for illusory power.

[Anonymous No.13274121]

>>13274075
>Literally thoughtcrime laws
>Fights wars with countries that nobody in the entire nation can find on a map
>Entire civic society is built around an unsustainable model that necessitates the demographic replacement of the founding stock of the nation
>Totally disarmed public
>Unlimited brown people
>All parties support all of this

If you could show George Orwell modern Britain, he'd probably move to North Korea to escape it. I personally chose Uruguay.

[Anonymous No.13274148]

>>13274100
No, the massive surveillance state, the fact that you can go to jail for expressing the wrong opinions, and the fact that the country is ruled by a monoparty that views the British people as a liability to be replaced by foreigners and suppressed makes them an Orwellian dystopia.

Also, in what parallel universe do you live in which gradually having your national sovereignty usurped by Germans is a good idea? Can you imagine explaining to your grandfather that because you wanted to save six pounds on a Volkswagon, you decided to join the Fourth Reich?

The entire EU was a French-German geopolitical project to neutralize the UK as a world power. The EXPLICIT goal was to end Britain as a player in global politics. Pulling out of it isn't even the question, why the hell would you ever agree to be a part of it in the first place?

France says "we want to control European foreign affairs unilaterally."
Germany says "we want to control European fiscal policy unilaterally"
The UK says "uh hold on lads Fawlty Towers was on what were we talking about?"

[Anonymous No.13274171]

>not a single mention of Jünger

[Anonymous No.13274190]

>>13274100
All I said is they're not a democracy, whatever they are it's totalitarian

[Anonymous No.13274239]

>>13274121
>Unlimited brown people
>wants to move to Eastern Paraguay

The state of you

[Anonymous No.13274465]

>>13274239
Uruguay is actually pretty white, and the nonwhites are a bunch of high-caste mestizos. It's why the country isn't a total shithole. There are entire German speaking communities there and land prices are (relatively) so high that the nonwhites gradually get pushed out into the suburbs. It's like the inverse of the UK where poor shitbloods end up flooding the cities and all the white people flee to Swindon or some other lily-white enclave.

They also do this really fun thing every Christmas where everyone shoots off fireworks for a week. Everyone speaks English in the big cities, there's virtually no crime unless you go onto the wrong side of the train tracks. And, you know, that's true everywhere.

Paraguay is a country that shouldn't exist, though. A hundred years ago they had a war that killed like 70% of the men in the entire country, so they're all inbred and have an average IQ of 60. As far as I can tell the only thing Paraguay produces is electricity and farm equipment (their people) and maybe coffee.

[Anonymous No.13274500]

>>13274465
>virtually no crime unless you go onto the wrong side of the train tracks. And, you know, that's true everywhere.
laughs in singaporean

[Anonymous No.13274531]

>>13274500
Singapore doesn't count, it was like a lab experiment in designing the perfect society.

[Anonymous No.13274545]

>>13274002
>Zaibatsus
I've heard this term before, I'm not really clear on what those are, they're like a type of corporation?

[Anonymous No.13274548]

>>13274531

not sure you can find a wrong side of the tracks in manhattan anymore, maybe if you count literal projects

[Anonymous No.13274554]

>>13274531
the port of singapore is ancient

[Anonymous No.13274573]

>>13274545
Yikes. Okay so this one's hard to explain. Let me see if I can give you a quick rundown.

Back in the 19th century there were a bunch of large Samurai families who basically ran Japan. You might have heard of some of them. Toshiba, Miyata, Toyota, etc. When the Edo period entered decline you had this thing called the Genpei war, where the Shogunate rebelled against the Empire to try to expel foreign influence and return to their traditional feudal way of living because at the time, Samurai were forbidden from engaging in commerce and so most of them were broke as fuck and the only thing they had was their social status, and that was rapidly slipping away.

Spoilers, the Samurai lost and the feudal system was abolished, BUT, the families that sided with the Emperor, though they couldn't retain their status and swords and the right to kill people for fun, still needed to be rewarded. The result was the Zaibatsu system. A Zaibatsu is essentially a corporation that includes bank, multiple manufacturing and R&D departments, organized crime, and government lobbying, and is owned by a single family.

Imagine if Wells Fargo, General Motors, Microsoft, the Italian Mafia, Safeway, Viacom and the NRA were all the same organization. A bank, two huge companies, a criminal enterprise, a food service, and a media service AND a political lobby. All owned by one family. And this was common knowledge. Everyone knows about it, it's perfectly legal.

That's a Zaibatsu. And the Zaibatsus run Japan. They regulate crime to make sure that nothing is disrupted, they regulate the economy to make sure they all profit, and since they lobby the government, they also ensure that the law permits them to do this. Japan is effectively still run by Edo-period Samurai clans, they just wear suits now.

[Anonymous No.13274633]

>>13274573
Another very important thing to understand about the system is that the Zaibatsu, again, are all owned by old diehard nationalist Japanese families. So they're hyper-conservative. There is a reason why despite being largely secular and hyper-modern, the Japanese have had a series of very, VERY right-wing conservative governments for the last seventy years.

It's because you can't even get into Japanese politics unless at least two of the Zaibatsu support you. The last time a Socialist made it into the Japanese diet he got stabbed to death on stage by an ultranationalist, and nobody stopped him. The last time there were left wing riots in Japan they were suppressed so brutally that it basically ended leftism in Japan forever. And instead of growing weaker after the financial bubble popped in the 90s, the Zaibatsu grew stronger. They have more power now than ever.

Recently the Americans have started encouraging Japan to remilitarize, and this, of course, is what the Zaibatsu have been waiting for since WWII ended. Japan is about to go through some serious, serious fucking changes and it's probably going to end in a naval war with China somewhere in the straits of Indonesia. The Japanese will win effortlessly--it won't go nuclear, everyone knows the Japs could assemble a nuke in two days if they wanted to--and Japan will de-facto become the dominant power in the Pacific, probably with tacit support from the Americans who seem to be growing bored with being world police.

[Anonymous No.13274657]

>>13271245
every mainstream historian considers those regimes fascist. Portugal as well and Peru as well.

[Anonymous No.13274683]

>>13271165
artists have the gift of rising above things

[Anonymous No.13274690]

>>13271219
>Nazism
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHA

[Anonymous No.13274711]

>>13274657
But they objectively weren't. Fascism is an economic system of corporatism, essentially rule by unions and high industry merged with the government.

What kind of idiot looks at Franco's spain and thinks "oh yeah this is class cooperation made manifest," no it fucking wasn't, it was indistinguishable from Gadaffi's Libya. "Mainstream Historians" are basically propagandists for the neoliberal establishment, what next, is fucking North Korea fascist?

Actually North Korea might be fascist I'd have to read up on that, but you see what I mean, "fascism" for normies and especially the academic elite is just a word that means "authoritarianism+bad," by the same standards by which one could call Peronism Fascism, you could call fucking Stalinism a form of Fascism, and at that point you're just describing every system except liberal democracy.

[Anonymous No.13274725]

>>13274573
>>13274633
Huh. The plot to Persona 5 and Yakuza 5 make way more sense now. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.13274753]

>>13274002
>>13274053
>>13274148
>>13274573
>>13274633
Absolutely top tier posts. This is what I come here for.

[Anonymous No.13274806]

>>13274633
>>13274573
>>13274465
>When a Uruguayan fascist explains Japanese economic and political history to you on a literature board

I do not envy the people who are going to have to dig up and analyze our fossilized civilization in a thousand years, nigga.

[Anonymous No.13274814]

>>13273951
Fucking cringe reddit tourist.

[Anonymous No.13274898]

>>13274002
>>13274053
>>13274148
>>13274573
>>13274633
Top tier posts, anon. Amidst this sea of shit you can find gold.
What books do you recommend to learn more about Hitler's Germany and Japanese politics?

And by the way, you could argue that Perón was either fascist oriented or had fascist tendencies. His union laws and public education curriculum kind of proves this.

[Anonymous No.13274957]

>>13274002
highly intelligent and respectable post, keep contributing my man.

[Anonymous No.13275273]

>>13274753
>>13274898
I'm not the original poster, but I came across this: https://fivebooks.com/best-books/hitler-michael-burleigh/

I'm going through Heiden's book right now. I don't know much about the geopolitics of everything, but it's definitely a good start. I mean, Heiden is, unsurprisingly, vitriolic, but despite that, quite fair. Seems to paint the man as the literal anti-Christ though. Only halfway through. At least one thumb up. The PDF can be found on libgen.

[Anonymous No.13275358]

>>13274002
Bravo.

[Anonymous No.13275378]

>>13275273
That interview seems like a biased shitfest which makes me believe the books are as well

[Anonymous No.13275384]

>>13275378
I agree with you in premise, but I'm checking the books out regardless.

[Anonymous No.13275609]

>>13274002
Am I the only one getting dad syndrome from fashposters on /lit/?

[Anonymous No.13275865]

>>13275609
Fascism is literally about dad showing up and saying “son, cover your eyes. You don’t need to see this.”

[Anonymous No.13275931]

>>13271216
>>13271291
Based AF

Everyone else in this thread is BORING

[Anonymous No.13275973]

>>13274573
interesting

Is this a good doc on it u think?

https://youtu.be/7TWW4PtKK4E

[Anonymous No.13275981]

>>13274633
>Recently the Americans have started encouraging Japan to remilitarize

That sounds like a fucking nightmare. How did the Zaibatsu’s react to the bomb(s) specifically. I mean, holy fuck, right?