/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13228784]

There is a common misconception that the Qur'an forbids friendshio with non-Muslims. Yes, it does say that, but it must be read in light of Qur'an 60:7-9

>It may be that Allah will ordain love between you and those of them with whom ye are at enmity. Allah is Mighty, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers.

The Qur'an often talks about kuffar or Christians or Jews specifically in a situation such as this, or in breaking faith on a treaty. However these injunctions do not apply outside those contexts.

Qur'an 2:62 even says,

>Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

[Anonymous No.13228798]

Are you just one guy making all these fucking Muslim threads, OP?

[Anonymous No.13228814]

>>13228798
No, many of us came here from /his/ due to the Guénon posting, although desu I strongly disagree with Guénon on a few points, but he knows his stuff

[Anonymous No.13228830]

I'm a baptist and of course believe that the Koran is BS but I always found this verse interesting.

Surah Al-Ma'idah [5:82]
Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

[Anonymous No.13228846]

>>13228830
One of the prophets wives was a Christian and he loved her very much

[Anonymous No.13228854]

>>13228830
Let me ask you something. Are the modern brand of materialist, promiscuous, liberal (in the non-political sense of the word) Christians, actually considered Christians?

[Anonymous No.13228857]

>>13228814
>/his/
yikes

[Anonymous No.13228867]

>>13228854

How is "liberal" used if not in a political sense? Anyway, if you're referring to the crazy fundamentalist types who call themselves Christians then the answer is no

[Anonymous No.13228869]

>>13228814
daily reminder that being a white muslim makes you just as *snap* as white "buddhist" larpers, islam and buddhism are ethnoreligions despite their claims of universalism. it's just cringe if you try to meme it as your own, you have to be conquered by muzzies or buddhists for a good couple hundred years before you can claim that. stop having your identity dictated to you by an anime website, it's embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.13228878]

>>13228830

See also verse 73 of that Surah

>Those of the Children of Israel who went astray were cursed by the tongue of David, and of Jesus, son of Mary. That was because they rebelled and used to transgress.

Also

4:161

>And of their taking usury when they were forbidden it, and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretences, We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom

[Anonymous No.13228880]

>>13228854
I cannot say. I believe religion to be an inward thing. A work wrought in the soul by the power of the Spirit of God.
He is not a Christian that is one outwardly; but he is Christian who is one inwardly.

[Anonymous No.13228883]

>>13228867
>How is "liberal" used if not in a political sense?
In the sense of "broad-minded" or perhaps more accurately (though obsolete) in the sense of "lacking moral restraint".

>Anyway, if you're referring to the crazy fundamentalist types who call themselves Christians then the answer is no

No, I'm talking about the exact opposite. See:

>modern brand of materialist, promiscuous, liberal

[Anonymous No.13228884]

>>13228867
Liberal can also mean “generous.”

[Anonymous No.13228887]

>>13228869

Since when are Muslims all of one ethnicity? Islam is literally as multiracial as Christianity, you tick

[Anonymous No.13228890]

>>13228869
You are wrong, friend, Ibn Hazm was a white Muslim and a major theologian. There are Arab Muslims, Malaysian Muslims, black Muslims and white Muslims

[Anonymous No.13228894]

>>13228883

Ah, well the type of materialist people you're referring to aren't really Christian at all, are they? Do such people even call themselves Christian?

[Anonymous No.13228900]

>>13228846
Maria The Coptic was a concubine (sex slave), not a wife of Mohammad.

Meanwhile Muhammad had two Jewish wives. One is Safiyya, whose husband Mohammad killed in the Battle of Khaybar. And Rihanna bint Zayed whose entire family was also slaughtered by Muhammad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayhana_bint_Zayd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safiyya_bint_Huyayy

[Anonymous No.13228906]

>>13228880
>He is not a Christian that is one outwardly; but he is Christian who is one inwardly.
What does this mean exactly? Does this mean that a man who pursues money, women, wordly pleasures, is lax on the moral precepts laid out in the Bible (from things as simple as not lying to issues more complex issues like abortion) so long as he "inwardly" Christian he is a Christian? Likewise a man who follows in the actions of Christ, renouncing the material world for the hereafter, if he is not inwardly Christian he is not a Christian?

[Anonymous No.13228916]

You can't even pray in peace anymore without religious apologists interrupting you. What a great time to be alive.

[Anonymous No.13228919]

>>13228900
>Rihanna bint Zayed

[Anonymous No.13228924]

>>13228887
>>13228890
my point was that such ethnicities are generally alien to westerners, it's a MENA + subsaharan etc. thing, one cannot separate the culture. and of course there are even many types of islam, which proves. this type of muslim will you be? depends on the area, and yet the white 4chan larper has no native muslim area. obviously, there are buddhists all over too, the same argument applies.

christianity by comparison started its life as basically a rebellion against judaism and the idea of an ethnic faith, so the context is different, regardless of what any of these religions preach

[Anonymous No.13228932]

>>13228854
I don’t like them very much, but since I believe the primary purpose of my religion is salvation (its ability to organize temporal society is a happy side effect, and isn’t always possible), I’d rather they be bad Christians than bad atheists.

[Anonymous No.13228934]

>>13228894
I would say they are in fact the majority in the west, judging by the use of birth control, the prevalence of pre-marital sex, the hyperfocus on materialist goals, the addiction (almost dependence) on worldly pleasures, namely electronic: tv, movies, video games etc.

[Anonymous No.13228944]

>>13228932
>I’d rather they be bad Christians than bad atheists.
What exactly is the difference if they act the same? To put it another way, what good is a belief in god or a hereafter if one does not even act in accordance to that belief? If anything, isn't that kind of incongruence psychologically damaging?

[Anonymous No.13228950]

>>13228924
You make a great point, but on the other hand the british isles are pretty much native muslim land now.

[Anonymous No.13228955]

Muslim posting is actually the worst thing on this board at the moment and Guenon is a fucking meme

[Anonymous No.13228958]

>>13228944
Yes, that’s all true. It’s very sad. But I want them to at least have a chance at heaven. Even if they repent at the last minute of their lives, that’s better than nothing.

[Anonymous No.13228972]

If you are gonna Muslimpost at least do regarding interesting Sufi stuff instead of the same bland legalism thread after thread. We already have 2 threads in the catalog regarding not only Islam but Islam's relations with other faiths. It is literally spam.

[Anonymous No.13228976]

>>13228784
No way malcolm ever said that, or maybe he did just after he found out lying to further your purposes is okay in islam.

Malcolm x was the true father of the black equality spirit, no one today agrees with anything MLK, no one and not a single thing.

[Anonymous No.13228979]

>>13228950

shit bait kill yourself

[Anonymous No.13228986]

>>13228906
I mean to say that I cannot say whether someone is truly Christian, whether or not they are truly saved. That is something only God can answer.

>7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

[Anonymous No.13229012]

>>13228986
Yes, I remember this verse. I believe the context is Samuel anointing David.

However, the counter-point is that god explicitly details what man should do through his prophets. Yet, by that verse do you mean to say that those precepts are basically moot, since ultimately god is the sole arbiter of salvation? Then isn't this just a form of predestination? What does it matter what we do in this life then?

[Anonymous No.13229021]

>>13228924
Dude what are you talking about? Turkic peoples are Muslim so are Indonesians and Bengali and not to mention Bosnians, you’re just trying to pidgeonhole shit to try to push some retarded narrative, it’s obvious that Islam is universal

[Anonymous No.13229029]

>>13229021
I said there are different kinds of muslim, you are ignoring the point of my post.

[Anonymous No.13229060]

>>13229012
It matters a great deal what we do in this life. Rebuking those who do not do what they should is part of the Way of the Cross. But we, with our finite knowledge, cannot know who among Christians are saved and damned. Only God, who sees and knows all and judges perfectly, can decide.

[Anonymous No.13229085]

>>13228976

but he did say that. malcolm matured after visiting mecca, and was killed by the NOI for it

[Anonymous No.13229093]

>>13229060
In that case, do you mean to say that you yourself do not know if you are a Christian? Or if your actions will result in salvation? If so, again, what value is there in acting rightly if your own salvation is unknowable?

[Anonymous No.13229155]

>>13228924
>generally alien to westerners
I.e. alien to porn, feminism, gay pride, and so forth

[Anonymous No.13229213]

>>13229093
(1) Didn’t say that.
(2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagianism not my works nor will, but his.
(3) I know I will be judged and by whom. That is reason enough.

[Anonymous No.13229286]

>>13229213
If you didn't say that, then how do you know you are a Christian? By what metric if not your own actions, thoughts, beliefs do you call yourself one? That is, if only god knows who the true Christians are?

I'm a bit confused at your citing Pelagianism, are you saying you are against that particular interpretation? Because it seems to suggest that right action is an imperative because of the existence of free will. If you are for this interpretation what do you think of modern neuroscience which suggests that, for example, violent crime may have strong external, unconscious components over which we have no control?

[Anonymous No.13229321]

>>13229286
Ocassionalism

[Anonymous No.13229360]

>>13229286
>That is, if only god knows who the true Christians are?
Again. Didn’t say that.
>I'm a bit confused at your citing Pelagianism, are you saying you are against that particular interpretation? Because it seems to suggest that right action is an imperative because of the existence of free will.
We don’t save ourselves. He saves us through sanctifying grace, which we choose to either cooperate with, or pursue our own, selfish ends.
>what do you think of modern neuroscience
Getting reamed in replication crisis. Also know enough math to know it’s super hand wavy and not science.

[Anonymous No.13229396]

>>13229360
Assuming this is you:
>But we, with our finite knowledge, cannot know who among Christians are saved and damned. Only God, who sees and knows all and judges perfectly, can decide.

Fair enough, then the question of "true Christian" becomes "true salvation" which you leave to god. In that case, that still doesn't answer how you know that you are a Christian. How do you know? What is your criteria?

>We don’t save ourselves. He saves us through sanctifying grace, which we choose to either cooperate with, or pursue our own, selfish ends.

Then are we saved no matter what we do? What happens if a Christian pursues selfish ends? Is he saved or not? If the answer is "Only god knows" then one might as well abandon the unknowable hereafter and try to make a heaven on earth by any means.

>Getting reamed in replication crisis. Also know enough math to know it’s super hand wavy and not science.

I don't necessarily agree with you but I won't pursue this line of questioning any further for the sake of staying on topic.

I hope I'm not coming off as antagonistic. These are questions I'm struggling with not ones I'm trying to use as barbs to try and poke holes in the belief.