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/lit/ - Literature

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13228150 No.13228150[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>god is omnipoentent and omniscient, sees past and future, has power to prevent or cause any effect
>thus every event in the universe can only be the result of his will
then God is a fucking nigger if I ever seen one, and dont give me that leibnitz german fuck fanatical cope mental gymnastics
God is a terrible atrocious horrendous nigger

>> No.13228524

>God is a terrible atrocious horrendous nigger
amusing post teenage fren

>> No.13228529

>>13228150
if god were a nigger the entire universe would just be a giant stadium of things watching him badly breakdance

>> No.13228577

>>13228150
while crudely put, O pee's sentiment is sound.

god is allowing atrocities, torturing souls for eternity, and expects worship as well.

if god existed (he doesn't) he would be an evil

>> No.13228589

>>13228524
right now there's a two years old getting assraped in front of its mother who also being raped. A supreme being with total control over future and reality foresaw this and allows it to happen

>> No.13228598
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13228598

>>13228577

>> No.13228606

>>13228577
he does exist because the circumstances in this world are way too ironic and coincident to be merely the product of anarchic fortuity. In a way there's a smart design of suffering that can only stem from a rational being

>> No.13228625

>>13228606
Well if the world is not rational but ironic then it must be an ironic being. I can get behind an ironic deity.

>> No.13228640

>>13228598
it's a valid point and your hollow response fails to answer anything other than the question of whether you're a retarded faggot or not.

>> No.13228641

God is the creator, not the micro manager. Free will exists and it is a gift. Only those who feel no responsibility for their actions or lives, likely as a result of their actions being retarded and anti-social and their lives being mundane and worthless - read: losers - believe that God is evil because evil exists and only the most spiteful, parent-hating pseuds of that lot have the nerve to say it aloud.

>> No.13228653

>>13228640
No it's not. Retards like you make that point so many times there had to be a meme created.

>> No.13228656

>>13228641
Are you aware that good people have been raped and tortured to death for no reason, their free will not helping them very much

>> No.13228658

>>13228641
If god is a creator, then where does the "gOd HaS A pLaN 4 U" bullshit come from? Checkmate theist.

>> No.13228665

>>13228589
God gives free will, people use this to commit atrocious acts. Sounds like we're the niggers

>> No.13228672

>>13228658
There's different Christian theologies you absolute brainlet.

>> No.13228680

>>13228672
You can't have it both ways anon. Either there is a grand plan or god fucked off to do more interesting shit than babysitting humanity. Which is it?

>> No.13228682

>>13228641
let's see you say that same bullshit when you get fucked
which I hope will happen soon

>> No.13228696

>>13228682
God isn't your force field, fag.

>> No.13228704

>>13228696
Yes that is the point, god isn't anything but a thought.

>> No.13228709

>>13228682
You are taking the edgy, atheist meme to new heights.

>> No.13228715

>>13228682
Yikes. Go have some sex (after marriage)

>> No.13228858

>>13228641
>worshipping the cre*tor
>worshiping the penis cutter god
if I knew that your parents would be horribly tortured and killed but would not do anything. How would you describe me?

>> No.13228870

>>13228653
they make it so many times because no satisfactory answer has been produced

>> No.13229314

>>13228870
There are answers, you've heard them and aren't satisfied though others are. That's fine, but dont keep bitching and making these threads

>> No.13229355

If heaven exists then god isn’t evil at all, since death and suffering on earth means fuck all next to eternity. Following that, if we are saying hell is a thing, an infinite being knows better than us so anyone going there must deserve it

>> No.13229366

>>13228150
>everything is gods will
>op decides to shitpost about god instead of fighting evil
Like clockwork

>> No.13229519

>>13228665
Then God made a perfect beautiful creation and filled it with worthless evil niggers
Why the fuck would he do that

>> No.13229532

>>13228150
God is only omnipotent if He creates evil.

>> No.13229538

>>13229355
>Finite sin yielding infinite punishment
If both God and hell exist, there is no possible way for him to be benevolent
If you had a kid who was severely retarded, like stuck on the developmental level of a two year old who could barely communicate with you, would you respond to minor misbehavior that he didn't understand on the same level as you with years of sadistic torture?

>> No.13229554

>>13228640
>it's a valid point

No it isn't, it would be kind of valid if it said something like "if god is good then ...". Trying to imply that there is no god because bad things happen is retarded.

>> No.13229566

>>13228150
Spinoza whole omnipresent god is cool and all and although wrong the complexities of his system are cool af

>> No.13229570

>>13229538
Hell is better for you than heaven if you’re wicked. As Socrates said, it is a good thing to receive justice when you’ve been unjust.

>> No.13229581

>>13229570
No action from a flawed human in flawed creation is deserving of eternal punishment without end. It's monstrous, and a greater sin than anything a man could ever dream of doing.

>> No.13229602

>>13229581
>It's monstrous, and a greater sin than anything a man could ever dream of doing.
No. To sin is to go against God. For God to display His perfect justice is good for God. When you sin against an infinite being, you receive an infinite punishment. If you don’t wanna do the time, don’t do the crime.

>> No.13229643

>>13228150
If you want to disprove God or show some sort of flaw, then first prove without a doubt that an alternative world is objectively better, not only for humans, but all of creation and God.

>> No.13229659

>>13228150
is there a spinoza chart or a track someone can send me on. This thread makes me want to read him and I just finished my last read

>> No.13229674

>>13229602
>No. To sin is to go against God.
Do you at least see how circular this argument is? Everything God does is good because God did it, and anything that is against God is sin. As Bertrand Russell pointed out, you could replace God with "the Devil" and nothing changes.

>> No.13229683

>>13229674
Yeah you’re right. To sin is basically the opposite of benefiting yourself. Sin leads to your harm. That is why we shouldn’t do it.

>> No.13229701

>>13229602
If God made me and made my conception of morality, why would he give me a conscious that gives me the unshakeable sense that everything he does is horribly evil? I'm supposed to be able to feel his love, aren't I? Why wouldn't he at least open our eyes to understand why we should love him and trust him when he threatens us with unimaginable, infinite pain like an evil demiurge would?

>> No.13229718

>>13228665
>>13228641
free will doesn't exist. "Free will", corrected to non-retard terms, "effect free of cause", but an effect without a cause, is therefore also a cause without an effect. But a cause without an effect and an effect without a cause is the definition of nonexistence.
Which means that free will is nonexistent. This is fucking non-retard 101. Get a fucking grip, losers.

>> No.13229727

>>13229683
and the ressentiment your shitty religion was built on reveals itself.

>> No.13229732

>>13229701
God seeks those who seek Him. Read the Bible, pray, do good works, avoid sin, go to church, humble yourself.

It’s only natural that this world will have those who accept God, and those who reject God. This world of full of opposites, logical and beautiful. The relationship between man and God is more special when God doesn’t force it upon us, when it’s possible that some may miss out on this relationship. No one would love God as much as people do in this world if God prevented evil and forced us to believe in Him, etc. Even if God could create a world where humans magically loved God with all their hearts for no reason, such a world would be illogical and quite bare, rendering God less than omnipotent.

>> No.13229752

>>13229659
Read descartes and then I guess just dive into all of Spinoza(???)

>> No.13229871

>>13228656
And they are in heaven

>> No.13229880

>>13228665
>God gives free will
nope

>> No.13229886

if god were truly good he would reveal himself irrefutably to every person at birth

>> No.13229892

>>13229732
Yes he only sends you for eternal punishment for simply not worshipping him.

>> No.13229907

The God of The Bible is literally just the God of the Jews. No other race can be saved by Him as they are not chosen. Unless your mother was a Jew you are not a real Christian.

>> No.13229916

>>13229892
If you don’t love God, then you won’t be near Him. God doesn’t have to send you anywhere.

>> No.13229921

>>13229916
but he still makes me dunk my head in water and marry before sex?

>> No.13229923

>>13228150
there is god's permissive will yes but it is up to us to return to god in spite of our sinful nature that satan gave us, or else get burned up with everything else related to satan if you don't, as god the perfect being cannot be reconciled with the corruption of satan. whether you like it or not it's not a matter of opting out of the system and being ok, you're either with god or not

>> No.13229924

Why dont you guys read the book of John in the King James Bible? John and Romans answer almost every single question you have

>> No.13229932

>>13229924
no he doesn't

>> No.13229946
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13229946

>all the people ITT pretending to be wise
knock that shit off

>> No.13229953

God Almighty creates evil to punish wicked people.

Amos 3:6 KJV “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”
When people become very wicked and immoral, God will bring evil upon them. Thats why when the Jews went from Egypt to Israel, they fought against 7 nations that God told them to destroy and burn their images (statues of false gods) that the pagan people sacrificed their children to.

If you guys picked up a king James Bible and read John and Romans first, then read from Genesis onward you'd get all the answers you need.

>> No.13229965

>>13229921
Dunk your head in water? wheres that in the King James Bible?

God wants us all to find someone we love and have LOTS of babies with them! The best sex is with someone who truly loves you and you love.
Genesis 9:7 KJV
“And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.”

>> No.13229969

>>13229965
>“And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.”
>we multiply
>god gets pissy we're not following his autistic rules and kills us all

>> No.13229983

Many people ask

"why does God let bad things happen to good people"

The problem with that is that there is NO good people. Jesus Christ said it himself!

Mark 10:18
“And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”

>> No.13229989

>>13229969
After the flood, smart boy. Genesis 6-8 is the flood. 9 is when God gives Noah the law for the earth and tells them to repopulate.

You need to dust off your KJV Bible and read it!

>> No.13229990
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13229990

>How can God exist when I don't have a gf?

>> No.13229991

>>13229983
why does god let bad things happen to people

>> No.13229993

>>13229932
Doesnt what?

>> No.13229994

>>13229989
>multiply with my wife
>priests rape all my kids

>> No.13229996

>>13229923
>satan gave man his sinful nature
fucking awful opinion, god gave man sin because sin is inherent in free will, satan simply despises man for having the freedom to sin. also the serpent wasn't lucifer

>> No.13229997

>>13229994
>kids turn gay due to molestation
>commit sodomy
>burn in hell for eternity
well shit

>> No.13230003

>>13229907

Romans 1:16 KJV
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

Romans 3:29 KJV

“Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:”

>> No.13230006

>>13229996
god created man in his image, he didn't create a sinful man because god himself is not sinful and neither would his image be sinful.

>> No.13230011

>>13230006
yes but the difference is that god does not have free will

>> No.13230012

>>13230006
>god himself is not sinful
yes he is

>> No.13230015

>>13230011
by what is his will bound?

>> No.13230019

>>13230015
His nature as good and just, etc. if God were to commit wicked acts He would cease to be God

>> No.13230029

>>13230003
>new testament
epic fanfic

>> No.13230030

>>13229994
Catholics are wicked and satanic, I wouldn't even trust a catholic with my pet dog.


Catholicism is a very foreign thing to scripture and the pope, nuns , and monks appear not one time in the KJV Bible.


Jesus said in the King James Bible

MATTHEW 7:
15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

If you listen to Jesus, you'd keep your children from these wicked devil worshipping papist priests.

>> No.13230035

>>13230030
How do prostestants cope with the fact that almost every protestant nation is degenerate as hell and a bastion of sins, far more than any Catholic nation which still keeps some semblance of divinity

>> No.13230036

>>13230029
Read John and Romans in the KJV Bible and you'll change your mind.

(unless youre a little chicken coward who's scared of a old book)

>> No.13230040

>>13230035
the vatican is home to the most degeneracy in the world

>> No.13230041

>>13230035
do you know where you're going when you die Mister Catholic?

>> No.13230044

>>13230036
i've read your fanfic. you are still a gentile and god does not love you.

>> No.13230047

Revelation Chapter 17 in the KJV Bible is about God Almighty (Jesus) destroying the Vatican

>> No.13230053

>>13230044
The King James Version? The new versions are satanic catholic crap that needs to go into the trash

Also, Are you Jewish?

>> No.13230056

>>13230053
th kjv IS a new version moron

>> No.13230057

>>13230035
Did i say i was peotestant? I'm just a normal King James Bible believing christian

>> No.13230062

>>13230019
if god is always acting out his will then we can say his will is only ever good and just. god breathed life into man and imparted within him his animating spirit... if this is his will then man as the image of god can only also be good and just. a good and just god could not create something that has the power to defy and deny him when imparted with the animating will of god. something has to give

>> No.13230085

>>13229991

God gives evil people time to turn to him before he brings Judgment on them. He even gives rapists and gangsters and pedophiles and even people like Jeff Dahmer time to come to him freely.

2 Peter 3:9 KJV
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

If we all followed Jesus and the Apostle Paul there'd be no more rape, murder, war, theives, and so on.
When Jesus Christ comes back, he is going to destroy the Catholic vatican, the antichrist and all evil people. Then he's gonna have a 1000 year kingdom om the earth with perfect peace and harmony with man and animals.

TLDR: he gives wicked people chances their whole life to turn to him or burn forever

>> No.13230088

>>13230056
KJV is over 400 years old from 1611. Not very new mister smart boy.

>> No.13230091

>>13228625
Irony exists, does it not? An all knowledgeable being would inherently make the world a parody of our own faulty perceptions to show us the irony of our hubris. The very nature of this decision is the most rational way to unravel creation to the eyes of believers.

>> No.13230093

Does anyone here know where their soul is going when they die?

I'm interested!

>> No.13230095

>>13230085
yeah but why did he let my neighbor rape my daughter leading to her suicide

>> No.13230097

>>13230088
Newer than the Douay-Rheims.

>> No.13230099

>>13230044
If you're a Jew I'm praying for you and your people. If not Im still praying for you friend

>> No.13230105

>>13230099
i'm not praying for you. it was over the moment you were born a gentile.

>> No.13230122

>>13230105
well I prayed for God to bless you. I love you and your people, and your Messiah (Jesus Christ). I hate Nazi's and Jew haters and I pray for God to bless and protect your people always and I pray that those squatting Palestinians get lost.
I love you Jews so much it's kinda creepy!

>> No.13230145
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13230145

John the Baptist was beheaded. Paul and Peter were tortured and killed on the cross. And of course Jesus himself was crucified. So It’s not like what people are being told through religious scripture is contrary to reality. They cut John the baptists head off and put it on a silver platter. Gods a mirthful ironists, there’s lot of great comedic moments in the Bible that brainlets can’t see. If you only gave yourself over to the logic of mirthful irony and saw that nothing about a mans life follows a consistent motional rhythm of the logical of movement of time, not a hair could be plucked from your head.

>> No.13230172

>>13230095

Unless you're a Christian God WILL NOT protect you.

Also, read the book of Job in the KJV Bible. God let the devil kill all 3 of Jobs daughters and all 7 of his sons to prove that Job was such a righteous man that he'd NEVER curse God for any reason no matter what evil happened unto him.

And that was to a saved person in the old testament. If God lets that happen to Saved people, then why would he stop bad things from happening to lost people who reject him?

>> No.13230192

>>13230172
i am a christian. job got his daughters back.
and now my daughter is going to hell for comitting suicide.

>> No.13230194

>>13230145

Check this out, Jesus Knew the agonizing death that Peter was going to die and he didn't say "Heres how you can prevent this". Jesus only let him know.

18
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
19
This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

>> No.13230199

>>13230192
You don't go to hell for suicide, you go to hell for rejecting Jesus. Are you Catholic?

>> No.13230206

>>13230062
>god breathed life into man and imparted within him his animating spirit... if this is his will then man as the image of god can only also be good and just
this argument is getting annoying. There are several interpretations for what it means to be made in the image of God. It certainly doesn’t mean to be exactly like God, because we know that humans are physical, sinful creatures, and God isn’t.

>> No.13230207

>>13230192
If Youre saved Suicide WILL NOT send you to hell. Are you a catholic?

>> No.13230218
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13230218

>>13230172
God specifically enjoys making good things happen to bad people
>For He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
>For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son
Gods a mirthful ironist, the beginning of Job is one the biggest pleb filters of all time, you’re supposed to be smirking while reading it. Job’s folly was that he never spiritually matured

>> No.13230233

>>13230206
We have a body, soul, and spirit just like God. THAT is the interpretation of it. God is:

Jesus(body)
Holy Spririt (spirit)
The Father (soul)

All this makes up God, just like we all have 3 parts (Body soul spirit)

This is the Godhead in Acts 17:29

“Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”

>> No.13230247

>>13229727
as does yours

>> No.13230258

The KJV Bible is the best piece of literature ever 10/10 hands down.

>> No.13230266

hey guys, Jesus adopted me. He's my new Father now, Isn't that cool?

>> No.13230274

>>13228150

>God has x abilities
>Therefore God is inclined to use x abilities

How does that follow?

>> No.13230278

>>13228150
niggers don't understand irony.
god obviously does.
not that it makes him any less cruel..

>> No.13230290

>>13230278
as an observer, i feel like i see evidence of god everywhere. And the more I see of him the more I come to loath him.

It is so tempting to worship the other, as god is such a tragically flawed being. I doubt he is even aware of that aspect of himself.

God can not conceive of that which acts in oppisition to himself, even though he himself embodies that urge.

>> No.13230292

you know,I love atheists and agnostics and want them to know that Gods love is for them if they so desire it. Jesus is God and he died in your guys place so all your sins and wrong doings will be cleansed away like they never happened. God wants you guys in heaven with him where theres only Joy and happiness, not in hell where God is gonna put the devil and his angels that rebelled against God.
This world sucks, that's why God is gonna make a new one.

Good night guys

>> No.13230293

>>13230266
okay, but if he touches you call 911.

>> No.13230300

>>13230292
good lord religious academics are lazy. They wouldn't stand for this sort of thing in his day.

>> No.13230304

>>13230290
so your saying god is not omniscient?

>> No.13230308

>>13228150
Final form of the eternal utilitarian.
You haven't even read Leibniz, have you?

>> No.13230312

>>13230304
not in any real sense. neither is he omnipotent or omni-present.

he is the embodyment of order, very little else pertains to him.

>> No.13230313

>>13230199
>>13230207
suicide is murder

>> No.13230314

>>13230308
i don't know why'd you'd assume anyone here has read anything.

>> No.13230316

>>13230206
>we know that humans are physical, sinful creatures

yes, after the fall

>> No.13230317

>>13228150
God and religion a whole is a cope for those who can't accept their mortality and fundamentally limited biological existence. There, I said it.

>> No.13230322

>>13230314
Well he's the op's picture. You never know, op might only have redidual latent homolust instead of being a flamboyant faggot.

>> No.13230356

>>13230317
Irreligion is cope for those that don't want to face god and eternity. There I said it.
People are as if not more afraid of eternity than they are of death or extinction. Not that these psycho babble interpretation should be taken seriously.

>> No.13230397

>>13228150
That was the public Leibnitz, after which Voltaire fashioned his Dr. Pangloss, whose "this is the best of all possible worlds" axiom is the ultimate logic of all equivocation. The private Leibnitz was a bitter cynic who didn't believe a word of his own rhetoric, which is the way of all aristocrats and politicians for whom the status quo is convenient, though many of those are cheerful in their luxuriously outsourced hypocrisy. I would never argue against religion as a cope, though for the most part the American way of it is Pauline--which is to project one's own violent impulses equally on all others, regardless of temperament, through whatever apparatus of misinformation proves most potent, however mechanically repetitive it is to anyone with a mind. One can never hope that people so inclined will reflect for long enough to see within, since the activity is too unpleasant to sustain itself at sufficient length. The rest of us just try to make the best of things, without personalizing the universe's evident impersonality--except perhaps on mental vacations in inordinately fortunate circumstances. And the irony is that without experience of those, skepticism profound enough for that is unaffordable, for the same reason popular opinion on the subject always has that wrong. This is what makes Wordsworth's pantheistic nostalgia completely unreadable to people who are mean by nature or nurture or some combination of both, and why Pascal had a love-hate thing for Montaigne.

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13230505

>>13228598

>> No.13230509 [DELETED] 
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13230509

>>13229990

>> No.13230636

>>13228589
A product of the lower, animal nature present in the psyche of the lower, animalistic unillumined man.
All of the lower aspects of humanity can be found in nature to some extent, though these acts of immorality are taken for granted when seen being committed by animals. Think of insects devouring their young as a basic example. To some extent, these peculiarities, which some may describe as immoral, are present in the psyche of man. Through his intellect, man is able to differentiate Right from Wrong. Men with less understanding of this Knowledge of Morality can be seen as lower men. In this view, there is no true evil in the world, only lack of insight or Illumination.

>> No.13230829

>>13230636
As a teleological explanation of a good but non-ominpotent god for whom the universe is a work in progress, that works just fine. As a description of facts about life, it also agrees with matters of fact from which evolution by natural selection was inferred. As an idea of what's to be expected from a god that is omnipotent and good, it is perverse.

>> No.13230840

>>13228665
>b-but free will!
Doesn't explain the horrors caused by natural disasters, diseases, etc.

>> No.13230866

>>13229659
same need help

>> No.13230881

>>13229659
>>13230866
Just read Ethics. Might want to read Descartes' Meditations beforehand.

>> No.13231245

>>13228150
>thus every event in the universe can only be the result of his will
Homie wants us to have free will so he decided he won't show up and stop us every time we're about to do something wrong.

>Oh, you were about to have an angry thought towards that cashier? I'm here to brainwash you into being nice to her.

>> No.13231266

>>13230057
crypto-catholic anglicans go to hell like the rest of the devil worshipers

>> No.13231269

There is no god

All of these millennia of spilled ink and silly mindgames just because people can't reconcile themselves with the obvious

If there actually was a god, there would be no need for proof or belief

>> No.13231286

>>13231269
Funny that atheists give these “wise” emotional appeals instead of arguments. I doubt you have any real knowledge of psychology, theology or history yet feel compelled to make retarded sweeping statements

>> No.13231413

>>13229519
Dont blame God for our shortcomings as people. We wanted free will.

>> No.13231418

>>13229538
How would you know where the kid goes after death?

>> No.13231425

>>13230356
>People are as if not more afraid of eternity than they are of death or extinction
But death and extinction are eternal anon. Once you gone your consciousness is gg forever, no respawn point.That's why death is terrifying in the first place :)

>> No.13231433

>>13231418
So ignorance and/or a lack of intellect trumps sin? If that is true, that must mean that sin depends on our perception of it. Which means that the most 'evil' man in existence could be granted access into heaven as long as he thinks he's doing good.

>> No.13231439

>>13230840
Earth is going to do earth things. At the end of the day does it matter how evil occurs

>Who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

Shit happens. Good doesn't owe an explanation and why do you deserve one. Even If one was offered, would you believe it, would you try to negotiate out of your impending doom, or would you take it with humility.

>> No.13231443

>>13229718
>If I completely change the definition of something, it fits my world view

>> No.13231458

Our human lifes are but a blink of an eye compared to eternity. Seeing as that is the case, wouldn't killing children before they have a chance to sin be the most benevolent thing you could do for another human being?

>> No.13231465

>>13231458
Here come the trolls

>> No.13231470

>>13231433
No, I'm saying there is no point in trying to rationalize where people go after death. It's dumb when Christians do it, it's dumb when atheists do it. No one has any clues what happens after death. I was not telling you the kid was going to heaven, I was asking how you knew he was going to hell.

>> No.13231475

>>13231458
>we're going top sin anyway
>let's kill the most innocent among us

>> No.13231476

>>13231465
>he’s not antinatal

>> No.13231480

>>13231476
Then why u still alive?
Might as well enjoy the ride and the suffering since I'm here

>> No.13231495

>>13231465
I'm not a troll. This is a legit question. If heaven exists. How can you debate that someone else completely removing your chance at sinning to be a bad thing? A human life span wouldn't even register on a scale of infinity. If heaven and hell exists, I would be extremely thankful to whomever killed me before I even had the choice or chance to sin. It's literally a way to cheat the system. It is extremely selfless because you sentence yourself to eternal damnation in hell to grant everyone else eternal bliss in heaven.
>>13231475
That's the point. They are still innocent, and will be forever innocent as long as you kill them.

>> No.13231533

>>13231470
Because according to christians, sin is what brings you to hell. The question then remains is if 'a sin always a sin' or 'only concious sin is a sin'. The first in extremely unfair to those who are incapable of knowing that what they do is a sin, and the second implies that our perception of sin is what affects it, which makes you unable to sin as long as you don't realize you're sinning.

>> No.13231547

>>13231533
Christians don't have a fucking clue about the answer that. If we have to live like Jesus to get into heaven, we're are all fucked. All they say is that we 'hope' everyone goes to heaven.

Either way im not a Christian, I simply believe in a God and find the idea of an afterlife irrelevant

>> No.13231620

>>13229871
all it took was a good rape or beating.

>> No.13231808

>>13231458
if this life is irrelevant to eternity then why should we burn in hell forever for it?

>> No.13231827

>>13231808
bcuz big ol' skydaddy says so

>> No.13231850

>>13230829
This

>> No.13232007

>>13231547
The process of "how" one gets into heaven varies based on the denomination of Christianity you're talking about. Your analysis of it sounds like a Catholic perspective (saved by works rather than grace), but there are plenty of other schools of thought which teach we should strive to act like Christ, but that we must realize that it's not possible to be "perfectly Christ-like" due to the sin nature, flesh vs. spirit, etc.

I fear for you if you think that the idea of an afterlife is irrelevant. Don't forget: you are going to spend the majority of your time (if you will) dead. For example, George Washington has been dead a lot longer than he's been alive. It is far wiser to come to terms with your view of the afterlife now, while you have a chance to do something about it (depending upon your view).

Not trying to proselytize, just giving my two cents.

>> No.13232010

>>13229953
^This

>> No.13232016

>>13230258
^This

>> No.13232028

>>13231808
This life is sort of like the probationary period in which we get a chance to choose whether to follow the God of the universe or the god of self. God won't force love and devotion; they must be given of ourselves willingly.

>> No.13232038

>>13232007
It's only important to think about afterlife if you think it exists, otherwise you're just limiting yourself for no reason and given how you're christian I doubt you are capable of presenting the evidence it does in fact exist.

>> No.13232042

>>13231495
The best I've got for you is that human life is sacred. Further, killing someone in infancy may get them a slot in eternal bliss, but it does cheat them of the chance of coming to love God on their own and serving Him for a place in the hierarchy of the millennial kingdom/new heaven and earth/etc.

>> No.13232102

>>13228529
Fuck you I choked on my almond oat milk

>> No.13232129

>>13232042
>but it does cheat them of the chance of coming to love God on their own and serving Him for a place in the hierarchy of the millennial kingdom/new heaven and earth/etc
Literally does not matter, or rather, it can not matter. If heaven is eternal bliss, you would be unable to care about such matters. Since regret cannot exist if we are to be eternally peaceful. Even if it was possible, you have an eternity to love and serve God in heaven. If someone spent their entire mortal life being a paragon of virtue and good, serving and loving God to the fullest of every moment, it still wouldn't reach a fraction of a fraction of their eternal existence in heaven. I don't even have any comparisons to draw from, because the time frame we're talking about is so mind-numbingly vaste it is literally incomprehensible. The blink of an eye compared to your entire life does not even come remotely close to comparing a mortal lifespan to infinity.

>> No.13232187

>>13230035
have sex

>> No.13232199

>>13228598
>implying theodicy hasn't been a central issue for theology for the past three millienia

>> No.13232273
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13232273

>>13230356
Some atheists shouldn't have anything to fear as they don't live immoral lives apart from their irreligion, but if irreligion is their greatest sin, why become irreligious in the first place?

>> No.13232290

>>13229953
then why did god allow people to be wicked? you just switched evil with wickedness and acted like you made a point

>> No.13232303
File: 12 KB, 224x225, Strawman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13232303

>>13229990
nice job, here's a (you)

>> No.13232314

>>13228150
But the universe might be heading towards a trillion trillion years of orgasmic bliss for everything that has ever lived and which makes up for all of the preceding suffering many times over. But you wouldn't know that because you are stuck down at the wrong end right now. Maybe you're the nigger?

>> No.13232315

>>13232290
Go create a simulation/video game that has sentient beings that you have complete control over. Go write a book. Go create an anime. Why would you create some characters to be flawed and despised?

>> No.13232328

>>13230088
>2000ish year old story, oldest copy is around 1600 years old
>400 years old is nothing like modern bibles
refer to a translation or learn greek, then you can call new bibles satanic

>> No.13232330

>>13230030
But I thought only God was good. How can there be good fruit?

>> No.13232334

>>13232187
You definitely should not say this to a Catholic.

>> No.13232338

>>13232314
This is lottery machine logic.

>> No.13232339

>>13232330
He was using an analogy. What would you rather Jesus have said to clear away your sense that there is a contradiction?
>”oh but btw these trees are good but I don’t mean humans are good lol because they’re all flawed”

>> No.13232345
File: 161 KB, 500x880, cuckedbymonkeybars.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13232345

>>13229953
God gets cucked by a stone image.
What a faggot.

>> No.13232352

>>13232315
so people are gods entertainment, and an allegory to his previous experiences? that would imply that either god is not alone and has had experience with others or if he modeled us after himself, he is wicked and petty at times.

>> No.13232359

>God is omnipotent
>God can therefor make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift and cant

Religtards are the worst.

>> No.13232374

>>13232352
We are not for God’s “entertainment” but we exist to glorify God. He isn’t God without creation.
>>13232359
God’s omnipotence is only geared towards glorifying His nature. There’s no reason to create illogical contradictions, or contradict Himself.

>> No.13232378

>>13232352
My point was that if we can understand why even we might allow evil to exist, then imagine what reasons God has, which might be beyond our minds?

>> No.13232403

>>13232374
Why is he so weak?

>> No.13232459

>>13232403
What?

>> No.13232467

>>13232374
Gods not real lmao

>> No.13232468

>>13232374
Would something that doesn't adhere to logic be considered illogical?

>> No.13232478

>>13232459
If he is all powerful why does he need humans to glorify him?

>> No.13232481

>>13232467
If God isn’t real, then why is there existence? What necessarily exists, and WHY does it necessarily exist?

>> No.13232494

>>13232481
>>why is there existence?
Why not?
>>What necessarily exists
Nothing
>>WHY does it necessarily exist?
It doesn’t; see above

>> No.13232496

>>13232478
God is all-powerful to be God. There is no other goal than to simply BE. If you think of God as the magical sky daddy that existed before creation, then you’re bound to be confused. God wants to be perceived by humans. He wants to know their delight and worship an their peace with Him, and He wants to know how miserable humans are without Him. Esse ist percipi. We are God’s mirror.

>> No.13232497

>>13232481
>What necessarily exists
the universe
>and WHY does it necessarily exist?
what alternative would exist if not for the universe?

>> No.13232503

>>13232494
If nothing necessarily exists, then nothing will always be.

>> No.13232505

>>13232496
So he's insecure, not a Chad God.

>> No.13232511

>>13232497
>what alternative would exist if not for the universe?
That doesn’t answer why. Why does this specific universe exist and why is there existence at all? Why not nothingness?

>> No.13232523
File: 3.36 MB, 3201x2534, Johann_Heinrich_Wilhelm_Tischbein_-_Goethe_in_the_Roman_Campagna_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13232523

>>13232496
>Is there any greater hubris than Christianity? Besides thinking that a god would give a fuck about you lowly mortals, you get up and spend about three hours getting ready to spend the day entirely within His gaze. Curling your fine locks; slowly inching on exquisite leggings; plucking away at the unsightly; adorning an intricately sewn and soft pair of felt shoes so that the earth remains undisturbed by your fleeing feet; closing yourself within layer upon layer of corsets and featherings to keep all forces and elements at bay while attracting the fancy of the piercing eyes of the world; spritzing your skin and hair with the eternal glaze of a prism; a second layer of leggings and tights to show off your gleamingly placid contours in relaxed poses; a wide-brimmed hat with the sweeping peacock lines of the ethereal; and finally a veiled nightshirt to keep any remaining inclement weather from betraying your fair skin, and especially adding the gravity of the world to those bouncing curls.

>Yes. Yes. You are so fine and beholden to the heavens, an earthen vessel which G-d would love to take in his kind hands, kissing you gently. He will slowly remove all those layers of linen and silk, revealing the blossoming curves of you, the Virtuous Man. A spider woven into His web. And once naked in the light beyond this cursed earth He will ravage your gentle body without making you feel like a whore.

>He will even watch as you spend another three hours piecing together your assemblage of the finest knitwear, just waiting for that gentle jiggling of the buttocks as you tighten your corset. As you gracefully walk back into the earthly delights He will drape your curtain over your pallid shoulders; for You are the Veil of Maya and Logos.

>> No.13232524

>>13232505
No, God is collecting information, maximizing truth. His whole goal is to be and understand Himself. There is no greater meaning to existence.

>> No.13232527

>>13232511
>Why not nothingness?
nothingness existing is an oxymoron

>> No.13232534

>>13232527
You’re imposing logic on nothingness. Are you now implying that logic necessarily exists?

>> No.13232535

>>13232524
So if he is already being why does he need to feed his becoming?

>> No.13232536

>>13232511
Nothingness is one of the possibilities. It was not chosen by God.
Other anon is wrong though, because nothingness being a possibility at all proves that 'the universe' is not necessary.

>> No.13232547

>>13232535
His being contains becoming. Our perspective of time is an illusion

>> No.13232559

>>13232345
at least God has the guts to command a cleansing of evil people.

>> No.13232566
File: 48 KB, 492x449, 1460859531851.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13232566

>gets the tingles and fucks a random vagabond chad
>infidelity is punishable by death and socially scorned
>"i-i swear it's gods baby!"
>2000+ years later humans still believe that shit and more
the other religions are no better
i will get a heart attack one day from supressed rage at the retardation of humans

>> No.13232571

>>13232527
>nothingness existing is an oxymoron
>being this much of a bore pretending to be retarded
Replace 'why not nothingness' by 'why isn't the class of existing things void'.
Nothingness is entirely self consistent when taken ontologically, that is, possible (which is Leibniz definition, and any logician after him). Of course it is not consistent with the ego cogito, which is one of Leibniz's argument, but it doesn't prove anything beyond it. Empirical experience being void is possible.

>> No.13232577

>>13232566
>let me just re-read the Old Testament and have my son fulfill all the prophecies and have everyone believe him
You would have pissed your pants if someone put you in control of faking Christianity.

>> No.13232583

>>13232559
How are non-Jews evil? Why does he demand foreskins and human sacrifice?

>> No.13232585
File: 64 KB, 577x470, 1531785058973.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13232585

you are right...
fuck god :D

>> No.13232599

>>13232534
>You’re imposing logic on nothingness.
Nothingness is illogical? I agree

>> No.13232619

>>13232583
Non-Jews (Gentiles) aren't evil, God even tells the Jews to treat strangers (Immigrants) kindly
Leviticus 19:34

“But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.”

God only told those Jews to kill those 7 groups of people when they headed into the promised land because they were wicked savages.

>> No.13232625

>>13232599
You’re implying that existence had some sort of logical explanation, as if x or y could not happen because logic didn’t allow it, but it did allow z. Doesn’t this mean that logic, in some form, necessarily exists?

>> No.13232627

>>13232583
no need to be physically circumsised now, but in the OT it was a sign of the covenant (agreement) between God and the first Hebrew (Abraham).

>> No.13232632

>>13231495
>How can you debate that someone else completely removing your chance at sinning to be a bad thing?
Everyone is alone in front of God at the time of judgement. Intercession is only a thing to call forth aid in this life.
Sins are everything that goes against the will of God, and killing infants doesn't fit the bill, especially with such a convoluted reason that tries to make a mockery of existence.
Indulging in a vicious act so other people don't is retarded even in human terms. I bet you would be one of those to work for a totalitarian government because 'someone worse would do it otherwise'. I'm sure God will glorify Decius or Mehmet II for making many martyrs.

>It's literally a way to cheat the system.
Unbaptized infants aren't saved. And even the baptized they wouldn't hack their ways into heaven. People need to personally accept God. In their natural state men aren't saved. The default is oblivion, salvation a grace.

>> No.13232644

honestly guys I hate god, he's going to go to hell...

>> No.13232650

>>13232619
What made them wicked?

>> No.13232655

>>13232632
Not him but
>default is oblivion
So babies who die through no fault of their own go to hell forever?
Yea real convincing arguement that god totally loves us

>> No.13232662

If God is Good why does holy water cause him to burn?
If He is all-powerful how come string creates a safe space for sin?

>> No.13232668

>dude just DWJWD

>> No.13232674

>>13232650
Child sacrifice, Incest, murder, rape, idolatry, bestiality, sodomy (the Gay), and adultery.

>> No.13232678

>>13232627
So what did God do with the foreskins? Was he ugly?

>> No.13232682

>>13232662

Whres that at in the KJV Bible?

holy water never appears a single time

>> No.13232688

>>13232674
How is that wicked? It's the same thing as the Jewish people and what god caused them to do on many occasions.
And if men cannot be good how can they be wicked?

>> No.13232691

>>13232682
It repels him from punishing evil.

>> No.13232693

>>13232678
He didn't do anything with them, it was just a sign that you submitted to God

>> No.13232715

>>13232691

you sound like a catholic

>> No.13232717
File: 138 KB, 1366x768, fetus plasma.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13232717

>>13232678
Is this God?

>> No.13232723

>>13232715
Why, are Catholics based?

>> No.13232725

>>13232688
God only commanded them to kill the people, not rape them or their animals.

When some of the Jews did wrong God killed them too. God is no respecter of persons

>> No.13232738

>>13228577
When you have a child you must let it fail and hurt itself. This can be in the form of letting your kid fall of his bike or having him do martial arts or something. Teach him that loss and suffering is a big part of life and winning and happiness takes effort (later you can teach him that the effort is true happiness).

God is a father to us all, as such the scale of failure and suffering is greater as is our capacity for happiness.

>> No.13232741

>>13232725
But the Jews sacrificed children and did other horrible things. Why is it okay for them?
He also lies, so why should we believe that these 7 tribes were wicked?

>> No.13232744

>>13232723
Catholics are God defying, Bible rejecting, Child molesting, Jesus eating, Lucifer worshipping hereticks and they're evil as Satan himself. (Keep in mind I'm talking about true Catholics that follow their cult, not the average catholic that goes to mass once a year for Christmas)

>> No.13232752

>>13231413
>be me, YHVH
>create the earth and sky and so on
>create people who want free will
>give them free will because I made them want it
>history.jpg
>lol bro you wanted free will what's the problem

>> No.13232755

>>13232741
When the Jews did that, God punished the Jewish offenders the same way he punished the heathen people.

Numbers 25:5

“And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.”

>> No.13232760

>>13232744
If the Church is so good why does it make people evil?

>> No.13232761
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13232761

>>13232744

>> No.13232771

>>13232760
What Church?

>> No.13232773

>>13232752
Christian apologetics is a fucking joke. Move on

>> No.13232779

>>13232761
I wish more black people acted normal, many of them are very mean and hateful.

>> No.13232783

>>13232755
So are Jews better than Christians? The Christian God just makes them even more degenerate instead of killing them.
Why didn't he just create them without desires so they could be good?

>> No.13232791

>>13232771
The one you said makes people evil.
Which Church is the right one?

>> No.13232795

>>13232783
He punished the Jews the same exact way (death penalty) as he did the heathen for being wicked. God has future plans for Israel, and he's gonna let 2/3rds of them be wiped out by the catholic antichrist for being wicked.

>> No.13232803

>>13232374
so going by your argument here and >>13232496 God is better understood like a force, not a being. something without free will and only the power to do what it does. you could say the same about any force in the natural world, it has absolute power to be itself and needs humans to recognize what it is. this force would just be a creationary force that put everything into play and then acted like itself and did nothing else.

>>13232378
well we can't attribute any humanlike motivation to make some humans wicked otherwise we'd run into the problems of my previous post, since humans create characters to reflect experiences external to the story. that leaves motivations we can't understand, at which point we can't know whether anything god communicated is the truth. we have equal chances of heaven, hell or purgatory as far as we know, if they're really the parts of the afterlife so why listen? in that situation we shouldn't care about god or the possible afterlife and instead focus on what we know we can make better: our life, the lives of our families, the lives of our community and people in the world's lives.

>> No.13232814

>>13232791
"The Church" is made up of the true Bible believers that worship Jesus Christ. It's not a building, the Bible says so itself

ACTS 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

>> No.13232821
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13232821

>>13232571
>Replace 'why not nothingness' by 'why isn't the class of existing things void'.
Whether it's a void without matter or a void sprinkled with some, neither would have absolute nothingness as an alternative, which means that it would exist necessarily.

>> No.13232830

Hey guys, what do you think eternity is like? I cant even comprehend it!

>> No.13232831

>>13232511
we don't know why the universe exists and we may never know. one thing we do know is that a strict interpretation of biblical god doesn't exist. the flood and ark were of course bullshit, and tacitus writes about the Jews being kicked out of Egypt after being blamed for angering the gods by not worshipping and causing natural disasters, not escaping slavery. not to mention genisis. if those arent true, why are the direct words of the Bible true

>> No.13232858

>>13232814
We all understand that by church we mean community and not a building.

The question is, how do I, an ignorant potential convert, avoid falling into some evil and harmful version of Christianity?

>inb4 just read the bible and think for yourself
Historically, people who do that seem to get wildly varying conclusions.

>> No.13232859

>>13232831
You need to read your King James Bible more often, it seams all the philosophy you study is frying your brain.

>> No.13232886

>>13232625
I wasn't really making any claims about logic itself, but if you want to go ahead.

>> No.13232887

>>13232858
As long as you follow Paul from the King James Bible, you will be fine. As soon as you put your faith in Jesus Death, Burial, and Ressurection; you're sealed with God's holy spirit. (This also means you're 100% going to heaven)
Ephesians 1:13

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

Lots of false "christians" out there. Just read your bible and worship at home.

>> No.13232894

>>13232887
faith without works is no faith at all

>> No.13232906
File: 142 KB, 960x720, 1557259517126.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13232906

>>13232744
>>13232859
Quality baitposting, really.

Religion is one of those topics where people assume your opinions can be infinitely ridiculous, so no one recognizes bait. Even /x/enology stuff gets more scrutiny.

>> No.13232921

>>13232887
Polish here. Is it okay to use a slavrunes translation or do I have to get the King James specifically?

>> No.13232928

>>13232894

You stinkin deluded catholic papist devil. your works are as filthy rags to God Almighty

Paul said in
EPHESIANS 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

NOT OF WORKS you stupid catholic Luciferian moron.

>> No.13232946

>>13232921

The Polish Gdansk 1632 Bible is the Polish equivalent to the KJV 1611.

>> No.13232957

This Church will send you a free KJV Bible (Shipping Free too) anywhere in the world.

http://www.harvesthillbaptistchurch.com/

>> No.13233084

>>13228665
You don't mean god believes in not violating free will. This has always been a retarded defense. You mean he's temporarily non-interventionist.
All god would need to do to help the toddler is grant him the ability to teleport whenever he senses danger. This doesn't do anything to affect anyone's free will. The man chooses to lunge at the child, and the child chooses to teleport away. Just as no free will is violated when you ask a girl out before they reject you. You have to have an absurd idea of free will where it means getting exactly what you want to construe god as not wanting to interfere with free will.
Plus, god directly caused the toddler's free will to be violated. He gave the rapist an able body and rape impulses when he created the universe. He didn't give the baby the capacity to avoid rape. Meanwhile, he gave other people the capacity to avoid rape, which is presumably why the toddler was targeted. Well, if it's okay to give a some full grown adults the ability to avoid rape from the creation of the universe, why is it not okay when the universe has been already created to give that capacity to a toddler?
And he will eventually violate the rapist's free will if he plans to punish him later. Even if this was a test, god learns nothing from it, because he's omniscient. If it's a trail for the benefit of his creations developing moral character, well, obviously it fails for the rapist. It fails in either purpose.
It's wrong for him to give a toddler the capacity to avoid rape now, but it was okay to give the rapist the ability to rape then. It's not okay to imprison the rapist now, but it is okay to imprison the rapist later, after he's raped multiple times.
Just absurd. He has an odd, irrational and immoral fixation on not interfering, not in not violating free will... at least while we exist.

>> No.13233937

>>13229946
>>all the people ITT pretending to be wise
>knock that shit off
But anon, that's what all of /lit/ does.

>> No.13233953

>>13228577
Good and evil are subjective and God has no moral standards as God only set up the universe. Read the Gospel of Thomas where Jesus basically admits as much.

>> No.13233992

>>13232374
>There’s no reason to create illogical contradictions, or contradict Himself.
I guess he fucked up when writing the bible. lmao.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

>> No.13234087

>>13228598
That image actually accounts for a great argument.

>> No.13234459

>>13228656
>that good people
(You) write as if God did all the damage, and not other people; somewhere a good person has committed a rape, has been sorrowful, remorseful if not penitent for the remainder of his life. Is victimhood the sole province of goodness? Of course it isn't. But such arguments often make it seem as if it is. Is it less an evil if a 'bad' person gets raped, for instance? Fucking hypotheticals