/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13226049]

/leftypol/ here
Why aren't you a Marxist yet? Anyone who's well read will end up a Marxist. I remember back in the day when this place was flowing with leftists. Now it's packed with retarded religious posters. What gives?

[Anonymous No.13226053]

>>13226049
Marxist is a transitional phase that we've outgrown

[Anonymous No.13226057]

>>13226049
I've been here for years and I've always been both almost-Marxist and almost-religious. Thankfully I'm smart enough to be almost-nihilist.

[Anonymous No.13226059]

Hi leftypol, Were you in the rizon channel when we flooded it and had more members than the channel ever did and they had to institute OPs and banning but it totally wasn't a microcosm of the retarded things you believe? That was fun.

[Anonymous No.13226069]

I'm not a Marxist because I've read some books on economics, politics, and history.

[Anonymous No.13226071]

Can't us Christians and Marxists get along?

[Anonymous No.13226075]

Sorry we're having a cringe catholic phase atm, come back after summer

[Anonymous No.13226089]

>>13226049
>/leftypol/ here
Go back

[Anonymous No.13226093]

>>13226075
>atm
For like 8 years*nobody asked for /his/ because moot had already said that a /his/ board would be /pol/ with dates. People asked for a board for religion and philosophy threads to be sequestered. It was answered eventually in the form of /his/ and the wishy washy sticky we have here and the failed experiment has begrudgingly proven /lit/ to be the religion and philosophy board. As a staunch advocate for the original split, I now see the error of my ways

[Anonymous No.13226097]

>>13226075
You can go back to wherever the hell you came from because /lit/ has been Catholic for years.

[Anonymous No.13226101]

>>13226093
It hasn't been this Catholic for years
There was a cringe feser/thomist phase a few years back, and now it's returned

[Anonymous No.13226105]

4chan's only consistent ideology is contrarianism you goober.

[Anonymous No.13226108]

I've entered my late 20s and became better at filtering noise and personal emotions/biases from my thinking.

[Anonymous No.13226115]

>>13226101
Its just the same shit dude. I stopped using this board for literally like 5 years and its all the same. Nobody leaves 4chan. They all do the same thing as me and use one board maybe sparingly for 6 months or a year or "leave" and then winter or some life event drives them back and they start using 5 boards again and pick up right where they left off. It's like being an alcoholic.

[Anonymous No.13226132]

>>13226115
That might be it tbqh lmao. I did stop browsing for a period. Every time I return the board seems worse and worse though. I don't know if I'm just getting older or if the quality is lowering.
Back in my day we'd call each other cucks or subvocalisers, now it's bugman this soiboy that

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!/qKRybJPyoB No.13226135]

>>13226069
I could say the same.
That's why I'm an anarchist.

Marxian economics is still worth the study time.

[Anonymous No.13226137]

Spenglerim is a much more compelling philosophy of history than Marxism, and has the nice characteristic of actually being right.

[Anonymous No.13226141]

Fuck you butterfly.

[Anonymous No.13226142]

>>13226049
I just realised all politics is identity politics, and being a working class white man I have no reason getting involved with the left.

[Anonymous No.13226143]

>>13226135
>shills for Wolff's book
>claims not to be Marxist

[Anonymous No.13226145]

>>13226132
Its the same shit dude. Don't be a boomer and adopt the new memes or just call people faggots. I personally never used cuck even at the height of its memery because i thought it was weird and gay but I call people the new buzzwords sometimes.

[Anonymous No.13226150]

I was when I was 15-17 and had barely read any books yet. As they say, if you are not left when you are young you have no heart, if you are not right when you get older you have no brain.

[Anonymous No.13226151]

im not a marxist becuase i dont label myself according to a dogma.
i dont label myself at all. I let others do that. If i were to label myself as anything it would be "ding an sich".

[Anonymous No.13226162]

>>13226115
Lol that's exactly my relationship to 4chan

[Anonymous No.13226165]

>>13226049
>Anyone who's well read will end up a Marxist.
Nah, it's usually the other way around . Marxism was my entry level ideology when I was a ignorant know it all midwit. The more I learned and read, the more I moved away from that.

[Anonymous No.13226184]

>>13226049
>Why aren't you a Marxist yet?
2016 invasion, petersonfag invasion and ongoing pewdifags invasion.
I remember when this board was a slow board. Good times.

[Anonymous No.13226189]

>>13226049
>this board isn't libertine identitarian enough
It's probably the neocons who found a golden opportunity shilling here memeing a candidate into the presidency.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!/qKRybJPyoB No.13226197]

>>13226143
>Slowjack poster
>Can't read

Sad. Even sadder that they come to a literature board.

>>13226150
Its a dumb saying. I lived the reverse. The rightwing are generally the brainless sort, backward thinking. The elderly who wish there was an afterlife, that kind of person.

[Anonymous No.13226199]

Because you guys want to kill me for believing in our lord and saviour.

[Anonymous No.13226212]

>>13226197
It really is a dumb saying

[Anonymous No.13226220]

The proletariazation of aesthetics has been a disaster for the human race, and dialectical materialism is just bogus pseudo-religious horse shit.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!/qKRybJPyoB No.13226222]

>>13226220
Pfff
Dumb

[Anonymous No.13226224]

>marxists acting like door to door christians

[Anonymous No.13226226]

>>13226053
t. 18 year old who said he was a communist without actually understanding communism when he was 16.

[Anonymous No.13226228]

>>13226184
I usually disparage "dude everything is getting worse" people, because I feel 4chan has always been shit. But it really has gotten worse since 2016.
Angry zoomers killed this site

[Anonymous No.13226240]

Whatever you homos
Give me the sauce

[Anonymous No.13226241]

>>13226135
You realise you don't have to throw away all of Marxism and become a utopian just because you're disapointed by some of Marx's theoretical failures right? Anarchism is a noble thing to tend towards and an anarchist is definitely an ally despite what your average tankie larper might say but anarchist theory provides very little practical ways to actually achieve anarchy.
Not gonna go into more practical ways to achieve socialism because I don't want to end up on a list.
>>13226142
Imagine having class consciousnes and just ignoring it in the name of comfiness, get your shit together conrad.

[Anonymous No.13226251]

>hah those retards believe in an impossible deity, I'm so much smarter for believing in an impossible economic system

[Anonymous No.13226254]

>>13226049
>Anyone who's well read will end up a Marxist.

Ultimate cringe

[Anonymous No.13226260]

>>13226241
vulgar marxism is the last stand of implicit white identity politics, you are not woker or more principled because you refuse to play the tribal free for all, you are just deluding yourself.

[Anonymous No.13226269]

>>13226049
I'm a wealthy male. Why would I betray my own interests to help the people who spend their time attacking me on twitter?

[Anonymous No.13226271]

>>13226049
I used to walk up stairs like this. Much more efficient, but it makes people uncomfortable.

[Anonymous No.13226283]

Because Marxism is a complete anachronism. We need a new anti-capitalist praxis.

[Anonymous No.13226287]

>>13226115
And I wouldn't want it any other way. Love ya /ic/, /v/, /his/, /lit/, /gif/ and /wsg/.
Marxism is based and redpilled btw

[Anonymous No.13226290]

>>13226226
wow

[Anonymous No.13226294]

What does Marxist anarchism mean on a practical level, as in what is it and how can it be implemented. How can socialism or centralization exist with a state of minimal or no government? They're contraries.

[Anonymous No.13226297]

>>13226135
>Im an anarchist

[Anonymous No.13226306]

>>13226294
This. Also, how is a Communist society without government but with everyone doing whatever supposed to be reached? It's like something my dog would think of as possible.

[Anonymous No.13226315]

>>13226197
Let me guess, you live in a right wing ruled country and fantasise about communism? When you experience left wing politics for real you will understand what it really is. There are plenty of places under communist rule so I suggest you move your butt to one of those countries and live your shit for real. It's not like the political fantasy books you read.

[Anonymous No.13226326]

>>13226287
For me, it's /k/ /o/ /out/ /qa/ /tv/ /wsg/ /diy/ /ck/. /lit/ is actually the most brainlet of all of these boards. Heil Hitler etc etc no but I totally understand why people are marxists like I get it. If only there were some sort of nationalist socialism.... I think no matter how much we disagree our core personal concerns are the same. Like people describing an acid trip its all the same thing but in different words and perspectives.

[Anonymous No.13226343]

>>13226315
As someone who has family from former socialist national I completely agree. My god the horrors that happened there. You wouldn't believe. The streets were clean. Crime was unheard of. Free healthcare and employment for all. 8 hour workdays, in which you did jack shit. Public transport was cheap as fuck so 16 year olds could travel from little money they had.
>>13226326
Yeah, I'm at least smart enough to see getting rid of the jews won't solve any problems.

[Anonymous No.13226348]

>>13226294
you don't understand what marxism, capitalism socialism or government mean, you are a burger and your whole framework is cobbled together from soundbites fed to you by neoliberal think tanks. Even in the freest of free market societies 95% of economic activity will take place within hierarchical organisations. Markets are neither stable nor particularly efficient, they do not maximise, they clear and its all that matters. Our current ''free market'' model centralises wealth, military power and the production of culture beyond any of its predecessors. Libertarian ideologies don't have a critique of mass industrial society, they can't even conceive of things such as propaganda or the creation of artificial wants. A Boomer tier ideology. Thinkers like Stafford Beer and Murray Bookchin have drawn up some pretty detailed plans for what a libertarian socialist non state society might look like.

[Anonymous No.13226358]

>>13226343
> socialist national
*Nation*
I need to stop phone posting.

[Anonymous No.13226362]

>>13226049
I'm diffident of Marxism and too much of a pessimism to get involved in ideology.
But I recognize that Marxism makes sense to most people as opposed to most right winger ideologies that are despised by people and generally not accepted.
I'm split between what sounds like the most intelligent of the two and the right wing charisma and aesthetics.

I also don't feel worthy of joining either of the two, since I don't buy in what either of them say and I don't believe in the cause.

I wish I could get more involved I'm lost in life generally speaking .

[Anonymous No.13226363]

>>13226348
Nigger you can suck a dick, especially since you didn't even try to answer the question. I'm asking what Marxist anarchism is and you want to talk about markets and libertarianism. You're no position to talk down on anybody.

[Anonymous No.13226367]

>>13226049
>Now it's packed with retarded religious posters.
At least mormons and seventh day adventist proved to be somewhat useful once by driving you trannies out.

[Anonymous No.13226373]

>>13226049
Because I read Shachtman and Burnham and realized that the professional-managerial class has superseded the bourgeoisie in its conflict with the proletariat. Post-fordist shifts in the mode of production have made the transformation of class conflict opaque, but the battle is now between the managerial elite and the rural radicals populating the derelict and depopulated areas of the developed west destroyed by globalization. Marxist class analysis is insightful, but it is outmoded

[Anonymous No.13226387]

>>13226348
>you're american therefore not able to understand things

[Anonymous No.13226395]

>>13226387
And to top it off, he confuses centralization with the accumulation of capital that Marx predicted. I really do try to respect Marxism but they have some of the worst representatives.

[Anonymous No.13226397]

>>13226363
Basically the state will disappear when there's only one class left and the technology is advanced enough so that no new classes will form.

[Anonymous No.13226414]

>>13226397
So is the only hope for Marxism a Star Trek machine that magically creates things out of thin air?

[Anonymous No.13226418]

>>13226294
It doesn't exist. Marxism and anarchism are irreconcilable. While they do both aim for the ultimate goal of a stateless society, marxism believes that a move directly from the state to a stateless society to be impossible without the intermediary step of the dicatatorship of the proletariat, itself a state apparatus

[Anonymous No.13226420]

>>13226294
we are dealing with information problems, informatics make markets inefficient in most cases, production is increasingly bound with information gathering and as time goes on it will become more tempting to cut out the middleman of institutionalised competition and artificial markets created through extensive regulation. Do you think ordinary people should have a stake on their everyday lives and the running of their society? market organisation has feedback problems, human behaviour is shaped by and modified for the sake of the market, with devastating social, environmental and psychological consequences. What might disturb people with strongly rooted liberal traditions like murricans is the affirmation of politics as an existential dimension of human life that can't be reduced to economics or to individual rights granted once or for all time, think the republic vs the democratic polis.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!/qKRybJPyoB No.13226421]

>>13226241
I realize the shortcomings of both of them. I’m the one pushing Wolff and Cockshott around here.
>Not gonna go into more practical ways to achieve socialism
Selfish. Heh. No, I understand actually. Working on my own plan lately.

>>13226315
Mmmm. The duopoly running the US is indeed a shithole rightwing nightmare, but they export those nightmares. But you wouldn’t understand that sort of thing, clearly.

[Anonymous No.13226424]

>>13226414
Not really to that extent. I would say when we all just need to work an hour to sustain ourselves. The Star Trek machine is too utopian.

[Anonymous No.13226431]

>>13226071
No

[Anonymous No.13226435]

>>13226049
lmao BRUH

[Anonymous No.13226445]

>>13226420
I have no idea why you're talking to me. You sure as hell aren't trying to answer the question. Do you have mental issues?

[Anonymous No.13226452]

>>13226049
>Anyone who's well read will end up a Marxist.
https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.html
>in 2006 3% of American professors are marxist
>the highest proportion of Marxist academics can be found in the social sciences, and there they represent less than 18 percent of all professors
where's this supposed marxist intelligentsia at again?

[Anonymous No.13226471]

Technological religions are retarded.

[Anonymous No.13226493]

>>13226421
Okay, okay. I’m just going to say it:

I think you need my cockshott :3 we’ll do it like a Wolff would.

[Anonymous No.13226505]

>>13226343
Yes well I think you'll find I'm even more passive aggressive about asserting my intellectual superiority over you after my failed olive branch extension :^)

[Anonymous No.13226523]

>>13226373
What do you think of Christopher Lasch, the culture of narcissism and his re-evaluation of fin de siecle populists and reformers? The infamous trotsky to neocon pipeline? The whiz kids at RAND(nuclear strategist and neocon godfather albert wohlstetter was a former trotskyite as well, and turns out public choice theory didn't kill the managerial state) ? The Paleocons, Gottfried, Francis and muh middle american radicals? The eternal battle is between the winners and the losers, and the later will always outnumber the former.

[Anonymous No.13226532]

>>13226049
>Why aren't you a Christian yet? Anyone who's well read in the Bible will end up a Christian.

[Anonymous No.13226586]

Sad to see people wasting their lives thinking that this sort of stuff is anything more than larping.

[Anonymous No.13226593]

I read a lot of Marxist critics in college (BA in English lit), Louis Althusser, Theodore Adorno, etc. I was actually very left leaning when I went into college, but reading these guys made me question everything I'd previously believed about liberal progressivism. It wasn't until I read Michel Foucault's History of Sexuality that I had a breakthrough though. I devoured everything Foucault wrote. By the time I graduated college I was no longer left leaning, I'd drifted toward the center and had become extremely skeptical of all forms of power. Time in the real world pushed me further right. I'm somewhere close to libertarian these days but I rarely see eye-to-eye with mainstream politicians.

In my experience, the only way you could remain Marxist after reading these people is if you didn't understand what they were talking about or, if you did, you lacked any kind of moral conscience.

[Anonymous No.13226599]

>>13226222
And traps are gay

[Anonymous No.13226614]

>>13226593
>In the 1940s Burroughs liked to use the term “factualist” to describe his political leanings, and his views on the wider world. He dismissed the mysticism and superstition of others while essentially claiming that he was only interested in “facts” – ie he only trusted his own experiences. He viewed factualism as a means of breaking the stranglehold he perceived language to hold over people, and also in freeing himself and others from what he perceived to be the tyranny of liberal politics. Robert Johnson claims that to Burroughs, “liberalism was simply a plot to create conformity – politically, economically, and, as his letters to Allen Ginsberg constantly argue, sexually.” Therefore, contrary to Ginsberg, and perhaps in line with the later views of Kerouac, Burroughs would lump liberalism into his machines of control. His letters in the late forties and early fifties are filled with tirades against liberals.

>Have you noticed all these fucking Liberals will show their yellow fangs when they think they can get by with it. All Liberals are weaklings, and all weaklings are vindictive, mean and petty.


>tfw william burroughs republican

[Anonymous No.13226617]

Marxism is cool and stuff, but rate my setup fags. WhiteTrash is my "meme" folder that I have since 2016

[Anonymous No.13226625]

We have thankfully moved past materialism and now discuss big boy ideas that surpass petty squabbling over who gets what worthless currency or whatever

[Anonymous No.13226633]

>>13226145
>furfag saying this
your entire “community” is an insecure hive mind

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.13226633,1]

>>13226586
>Planning for a future is larping
So, any attempt at establishing any kind of life is just a cope or a LARP with you? Where’s that NPC pic you were gonna post?

>>13226593
>had become extremely skeptical of all forms of power
That’s what anarchism is all about. If you’re a right liberal “Libertarian” you really haven’t looked hard enough at the theories and their effects in the real world.

>>13226599
Most of them are, yes.
I don’t try to pass as male though

>>13226625
>now that we’re done with the real world, it’s time to think about imaginary stuff, like a real adult.
Stupid furfag