EXPLAIN MOLDBUG TO ME OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU! DON'T DUMB IT DOWN INTO SOME VAGUE SHIT! EXPLAIN MOLDBUG TO ME RIGHT NOW OR I'LL LITERALLY FUCKING KILL YOu! WHAT THE FUCK IS THE CATHEDRAL? WHAT THE FUCK IS FORMALISM? DON'T DUMB IT DOWN OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU

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Anonymous Mon May 27 14:45:43 2019 No.13192264 [Reply] [Original]

EXPLAIN MOLDBUG TO ME OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU! DON'T DUMB IT DOWN INTO SOME VAGUE SHIT! EXPLAIN MOLDBUG TO ME RIGHT NOW OR I'LL LITERALLY FUCKING KILL YOu! WHAT THE FUCK IS THE CATHEDRAL? WHAT THE FUCK IS FORMALISM? DON'T DUMB IT DOWN OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 14:49:21 2019 No.13192286 >>13192264 Moldbug is basically Land without all of the hyperteleounterorbitalomnipostneomodernity subtext. Clear and precise pseudery.

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:22:29 2019 No.13192446

>>13192264
Go to Unqualified Reservations, he explains his ideology in great detail their. I'll do my best to sum up his views:

Basically dislikes Democracy, views formalist monarchy as ideal system. Argues that history, especially in an American context, moves constantly leftwards, with the rare exception of retrograde action towards the right (post-reconstruction South, Harding's Return to Normalcy, election of Donald Trump).

Another main pillar of his thought is that the US, and by extension, the "international community" are actually one monolithic extension of puritan thought; essentially, the US is an active Puritan, secular-humanist theocracy, and essentially functions as a state religion in spite of there being an official separation of church and state. The US university system, with Harvard University in particular propagate this state religion throughout the anglosphere and wider world. The end result being an ever leftwards shifting Overton window/synchronization of academic and thought in all aspects of life (corporate, military, economic, social, etc), and general ostracism of any groups that fall to the right of said window.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:24:26 2019 No.13192458 taiwan #1

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:26:59 2019 No.13192471

>>13192264
The Cathedral refers to the combined State and Academic apparatus that forms the basis of deep cultural and political power in the West, and US in particular. The cathedral is a kind of synchronization between academia and its subsequent distribution of "truth" throughout the greater society.

Formalism is an ideology that has its basis on formally recognizing which rights and properties belong to specific groups. This is in opposition to conceptions of "justice", which in the right can be seen as arbitrary or even self-contradictory notions, in favor of the concept of "order". Basically, "order" or who was what, is seen as a higher ideal than "justice" which is seen as problematically vague.

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:28:21 2019 No.13192481

>>13192264
Also, rumor has itbannon was influenced by Moldbug, which fucking blows me away because I first started reading UR back in 2012, and the idea that some random blog on the internet influenced a Presidential Administrations fills me with equal parts awe and astonishment.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:29:31 2019 No.13192486 >>13192458 This. Uses examples of Dubai and Singapore to demonstrate that Democracy is not an essential prerequisite for establishing material wealth.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:31:52 2019 No.13192499 >>13192446 Oh, so he's boring as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:32:48 2019 No.13192504 >>13192499 I think he's interesting :3

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:35:04 2019 No.13192511 >>13192471 So 'media' with a trojan semitism.

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:35:14 2019 No.13192512

>>13192471
Like, you can't make a logically consistent argument that Palestine belongs to the Arabs without also conceding that London belongs to the Welsh. Fro this, it can be seen that conceptions of justice in regards to ownership are problematically subjective.

Therefore, it is better to establish a political system that it more focused on utilitarian structure, or order above justice.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:35:35 2019 No.13192514 >>13192499 Truth is boring.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:35:56 2019 No.13192516 >>13192264 imagine nick land but replace the weed induced schizophrenic rambling with the frankness of a middle aged computer programmer.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:37:33 2019 No.13192520 >>13192514 >truth If you wanna participate in an elaborate cuckolding fetish, be my guest. >>13192504 That's fine.

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:37:44 2019 No.13192523

>>13192511
No, my /pol friend. If anything, Mencius Argues that the only Jews of real influence are those who are on board with the hyper-potestant (globalist) agenda. The caricature of the Jew as ultra-orthodox depicts a group with as much political influence as Pacific islanders.

The modern world, the world we live in, was built by Anglo Hyper-Protestants. Moldbug masterfully demonstrates this by tracing Puritan thought from the landing of the Mayflower, to the Civil War, all the way up to the election of Barack Obama. The same Puritan ideology is in the backgrounds governing the course of world events.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:39:57 2019 No.13192538 >>13192446 >Argues that history, especially in an American context, moves constantly leftwards, with the rare exception of retrograde action towards the right The Medieval Ages weren’t a blip

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:42:36 2019 No.13192552 >>13192523 How did the Puritans cause the Russian Revolution? The Krauts, not Puritans sent Lenin in a boxcart

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:43:51 2019 No.13192558 >>13192523 >Anglo Hyper-Protestants There’s not a single Protestant on SCOTUS

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:44:08 2019 No.13192559 Great writer with great mirror, or obverse, reading of history. Fantastic source recommendations, dove hard and deep into 90% of them and they are now my favorite books.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:44:14 2019 No.13192560 >>13192520 t. Nietzschean slave

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:44:43 2019 No.13192565 >>13192446 >monarchy Monarchy would be better but that isn't his neocameralism. To prescribe a universal system beyond patchwork would be against his principles anyway

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:45:19 2019 No.13192570 >>13192538 Left and right didn't exist in the middle ages.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:45:25 2019 No.13192571 >>13192558 hyper-potestantism is equivalent to modern day liberalism

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:46:22 2019 No.13192580 >>13192565 >To prescribe a universal system beyond patchwork would be against his principles anyway It would be Universalism (Global Communism)

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:46:27 2019 No.13192581 >>13192570 We've certainly moved leftwards pretty consistently since the Middle Ages.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:48:42 2019 No.13192598 >>13192581 Since the French Revolution. Unless you want to come up with a definition of "left" that refers to objective phonomena outside of democratic politics.

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:50:03 2019 No.13192607

>>13192571
Basically Harvard started as a Puritan seminary, and despite superficial changes in dogma over the intervening centuries, you can see the same thread of thought throughout the annals of history; he's not saying the modern liberal is literally protestant, he's saying they are hyper-protestant, or the end result of protestantism in an American context taken to the evolutionary maxima:

decolonization, minority rights, desegregation, the United Nations, freedom of movement, sovereignty of the individual, were all tenets of American Protestantism prior to the end of WWII, and they in turn trace their lineage to the original Puritan theocracy of Massachusetts.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:50:41 2019 No.13192612 File: 85 KB, 194x260, 1533417923879.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13192598 It's been LEFTWARD ever since the first (well first effective anyway) secular progressive arrived.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:51:15 2019 No.13192617 >>13192598 The American Revolution preceded the French, I'd start there. Hell actually, the English Revolution was where history (in the Anglosphere especially) started to shift leftwards.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:52:41 2019 No.13192625 >>13192617 You need to define your left here. Nick Land and other right-accelerationist map politics based on the capital-escape (wherever it manages to squeeze out = right)

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:56:15 2019 No.13192641

>>13192617
In fact, the Engloish Civil War completely overturned the idea of the Divine Right of Kings, and established that individuals could have a direct connection to good. The resulting execution of King Charles by the Puritan Olvier Cromwell, would later inspire the Puritan Americans in their revolution against King George the III decades later. The connection is even stronger than first appears; some Massachusetts Puritans even volunteered to fight in Cromwell's army in order to do God's will. The idea that a personal connection to God could be established independent of clergy, are that the rights of individuals could be an instrument of divine providence completely destroyed the ideological groundwork that was the basis for monarchy. it can be said that without Oliver Cromwell and the English Civil War, there would today be no modern Democracies; everything that we consider to be essential to Americanism (individuality, freedom of religion, right to property and free association) comes from Puritanism and its objection to Monarchy. The effects of this revolution literally impacts us to this very moment.

Anonymous Mon May 27 15:58:19 2019 No.13192654

>>13192625
Yeah I'm not familiar with Land.

Are you familiar with the Overton window? Basically, it is a way of categorizing what is acceptable to discuss politically. While in the 1950's, it was acceptable to be against segregation (barely), in 2019, it's not a socially acceptable position to hold in mainstream politics. The window has "shifted". So, rightwing refers to anything that wants to act in retrograde to the leftwards shit of the Overton window.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 15:59:49 2019 No.13192667 File: 490 KB, 1600x2400, medievaldresstunicredelise23.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13192654 if your right is defined only as pullback to actual power shifting OW youve doomed yourself

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:03:28 2019 No.13192686

>>13192667
Yep, that's the point. If the window shifts, Moldbug argues that being a moderate actually shouldn't be considered as being apolitical. The moderate of today is the ultra-leftwing of 50 years ago.

Moldbug says that the mainstream views of Harvard in the 1960's are identical to mainstream (Overton window) views of America in the 2010's. Harvard alters American culture from the top down because all universities in the US are synchronized with Harvard. You can see this by the complete ideological homogeneity you see throughout the US education system. This is what is meant by the "Cathedral", the universities are a kind of new-age saecular state church (hyper-protestantism). Not literally protestant, but hyper-protestant, a secular manifestation of Puritan thought.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:06:08 2019 No.13192700 >>13192446 holy shit based and red-pilled

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:08:24 2019 No.13192706 >>13192686 Does Molberg ever delve into the reasons that animate people to seize control of society in the way that they do?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:29:03 2019 No.13192809 >>13192686 I know, I've read the guy.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:31:20 2019 No.13192819 >>13192706 Not really. He spends most of his time bitching that black people get to vote

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:31:29 2019 No.13192820 >>13192706 ressons cant be trusted, what you say amointd next to nothing on UR, its praxeological analysis from start to end.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:34:36 2019 No.13192832 Anrchocapitalism for kids who think anarchocapitalism is cringe.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:36:20 2019 No.13192843 >>13192552 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Leiden

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:36:28 2019 No.13192845 >>13192832 And btw, literally everything he says is a repackaging of Hoppe/Rothbard talking points. You can read both and find out for yourself. Same with Land.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:36:41 2019 No.13192846 >>13192832 Thats not it either. The idea is ecological competition. but Moldbug and accel/Land ignore that it already happened and Liberalism and Amerocsnu Empire won.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:38:20 2019 No.13192852 >>13192612 I take it as proof of Christ’s divinity that everyone tries to claim Him for their own.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:38:31 2019 No.13192855 >>13192845 Moldbug doesn't hide his sources, IIRC he says Hoppe has ot right on everything but solution (cant return, unwind time), and he repeats 'mises titan rothbard giant' few times lel

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:39:48 2019 No.13192864 >>13192264 Just read the Gentle Introduction. It si made for people who want to know what he's about.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:41:40 2019 No.13192873 >>13192855 Yeah he and Land make capitalism look cool to channers. That's their whole shtick. Too bad the message seems to fly over people's heads. It's just Austrian libertarianism for internet rebels.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:41:54 2019 No.13192876 >>13192819 That's a misrepresentation. He's not against any race, but he is against affirmative action

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:42:30 2019 No.13192880 >>13192845 Hoppe is basically NRx before it was a thing, I wonder if he's read Moldbug?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:43:06 2019 No.13192884 >>13192446 >>13192471 I just realized Moldbug and Foucault are in some ways consonant, if you see the Cathedral as the solidification of a system of ideological control.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:45:15 2019 No.13192898 >>13192876 In his own words, he's not allergic to white supremacy. Most of his arguments against democracy, especially in the Open Letter, boil down to its bad because black people vote and they're stupid

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:46:39 2019 No.13192906 >>13192884 Indeed. Same line of thinking found in SlatStarCodex referring to culture as "The Matrix", all analogous terms employed to convey a sense that society is a kind of imperceptible prison, or overwhelming structure.

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:47:37 2019 No.13192913

>>13192873
Yeah hard right (Hoppe, Rothbard minus ethics) overlaps lot. But if you compare MM or NL with normal Rothbard with his included ethocs it doesn't fit.

Libertarians at least Misesians are just really smart about economics and history, dumb about politics

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:48:39 2019 No.13192920

>>13192898
You are right. However, there is the subtle distinction where he disregards race in the face of competency. I think he wanted a meritocracy rather than enforceable racial laws, although practically speaking there may be little difference according to his argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:49:05 2019 No.13192923 >>13192884 moldbug references Gramsci

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:51:01 2019 No.13192933

>>13192920
Like he says it may be argued that blacks are better at music or dancing than whites, while whites are better on average at programming. He's not making objective value judgements, simply recognizing there are differences between races without resorting to an environmental argument. Their is no moral judgment, mere based appraisal of reality.

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:51:12 2019 No.13192935

>>13192880
I'm gonna retract the statement Hoppe is basically NRx actually but he is adjacent in some ways
>>13192898
So Moldbug thinks Democracy is fine for Iceland, since there are no pesky Africans to muck it up? Oh wait, not he fucking doesn't you moron

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:52:47 2019 No.13192943 >>13192933 Of course he might be wrong

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:53:35 2019 No.13192951

Libertarians who use NAP are such joke. Men ten times harder than modern numales rolled over in without a fight when Articles of Confederation were couped. And now same libertarians (talking of not MM) theorize with NAP while rrying to retain Christian ethics. its just confused sorry philosophy.

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:53:36 2019 No.13192950

>>13192906
I will have to look into that. I just finished reading Ellul's The Technological Society and his discussions on 'human techniques' as well reminded me of Foucault. Greater and greater resources, knowledge and techniques being required to plastify, channel and shape the masses so that they will function in the desired ways.
Also made me think about how now, for whatever reason, the stakes are so high for when this process fails.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:55:49 2019 No.13192965 >>13192950 Fuck actually I think it was the last psychiatrist who used the matrix term Slatestar may have as well, not sure

Anonymous Mon May 27 16:57:07 2019 No.13192974

>>13192523
>Implying protestant Christianity isn't a jewish ideology.

The parasite has been on us for centuries, trying to put the focus or blame on "protestants" or "Christians" is misdirection, which is exactly what moldbug was going for, hence "the cathedral."

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 16:57:21 2019 No.13192976 >>13192876 He's against racial equality insofar as it is either a demonstrably false empirical stance or a demand on the part of coercive democratic gang factions like the "civil rights movement".

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 17:03:40 2019 No.13193020 >>13192976 what does being against mean he certainly is under Democratic Gang Faction right now This is the lolbert idealisms and it's downfall

Anonymous Mon May 27 17:21:28 2019 No.13193156

>>13192935
If you wanna pretend he's not a racist go ahead. It's very obvious he is though, and all his thought is refracted through that prism. All his arguments against democracy revolve around racism. His open letter is completely predicated on the assumption that the reader is a racist but unwilling to admit it due to their programming.
>>13192976
For someone who claims to be a free thinker he has completely swallowed the koolaid on race

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 17:25:36 2019 No.13193189 >>13193156 Everyone is racist, though. The only way to not be racist is if you believe races don't exist and we're all the same, which is pretty weird.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 17:26:49 2019 No.13193196 >>13193156 >racist >racism Imagine not only unironically using these fake and meaningless words in the current year, but basing your views upon perceived infractions related to them. Peak retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 17:31:03 2019 No.13193227 >>13192974 Your right, everything bad that ever happened was because of Jews. Glad to have such an intellectual giant such as yourself on this forum. >it's da juice guys! https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/archive/American_Malvern.pdf

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 17:34:46 2019 No.13193250 >>13193156 Unironically what even is the definition of racism you are operating under? You do have one right?

Anonymous Mon May 27 17:38:37 2019 No.13193272

>>13193227
Jews are a parasitic race whose collective strength derives from weakening its host. They have been negatively influencing our societies for centuries and pushing harmful ideologies on us like Christianity, communism, and neoliberal multiculturalism. They aren't the only problem, but they are the main problem. Any white man with a lick of sense and an internet connection should get this by now.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 17:45:17 2019 No.13193316 >>13192819 >>13192898 >>13193156 Absolutely false. His main idea is that people in general are unqualified to vote, which is in a sense an even worse statement. The fact that you think it isn't only proves that he's right about racial programming.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 18:41:13 2019 No.13193757 >>13193227 >forum jinkies scoob

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 19:04:12 2019 No.13193944 >>13192264 >doing nothing, while wearing a fedora, will keep niggers out of San Fran

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 19:07:53 2019 No.13193983 >>13193156 >All his arguments against democracy revolve around racism. No they don't, you clearly haven't read him at all ffs, why do you insist on posting about things you don't understand.

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:16:09 2019 No.13194357

>>13192264
One of the many upper middle class folk who think they will rule the world, instead of cattle they will become, only if the structures were more authoratarian.

People like moldbugs are spoiled by west so much that they want to topple it, someone really needs to give these fucks a reality check. If the new world order thay argue ever comes to being, the leaders would likely be some ex criminal warlord with lots of guns, and not ''bugs'' like himself.

Again he is in the silicon valley crowd and they live in their own delusional reality. He just managed to find an audience with some of the peasants outside bay area.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 20:17:20 2019 No.13194364 Why does he look so much like Adam Ragusea

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 20:20:12 2019 No.13194386 >>13194357 >ex criminal warlord with lots of guns yeah because that describes Lee Kuan Yew perfectly, thanks for that

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 20:22:03 2019 No.13194397 >>13194357 Moldbug's suggestion for the new ruling class was, quite amusingly, anyone who was a professional pilot.

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:25:07 2019 No.13194412

>>13194386
Singapore post ww2 is quite different than his supposed post left usa, things will be way more chaotic here than there.
>>13194386
>>13194397

Again it is always these upper middle bugmen, never the billionaires mind you but the ones who make good money, really good money, but not ceo level money that have delusions of grandeur. Almost everyone who belong to these weird right wing groups, monarchists, ''libertarian nationalist'' (oxymoronic imho) etc fall in that crowd.

I'm sure if he was some kind of founder, who sold his company for 5+ million dollars he would never spout this kind of belief. Its just his power fantasy, written in a blogform.

Something really fucks people up in valley, I'm not saying the millionaries are okay, but if you are a coder making good money, but still feel like the underdog due filthy rich around you, you began to harbor some interesting ideologies. Moldbug being a good example of it.

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:29:34 2019 No.13194444

>>13194412
Moldbug undoubtedly has a great deal of ressentiment towards the progressive elite, but you can't read his blog and come away thinking that's all there is to him. For one thing a substantial portion of it is just long quotations of old reactionaries. Those men were much smarter and more knowledgeable than he is, something he freely admits, and they make arguments that at the very least can't just be dismissed on sight. His favorite people to cite, Carlyle, Maine, Froude, etc. make compelling points.

He also did attract the attention of at least one real billionaire, Peter Thiel.

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:35:42 2019 No.13194483 [DELETED]

>>13194412
>He also did attract the attention of at least one real billionaire, Peter Thiel.
Good on him to move up the ladder then.

To give credit to Moldbug, he is one of the mild ones from the valley. This silicon valley technolibertarian ideology is miles worse than any ''ivy tower'' or ''cathedral'' gatekeeping you can imagine. These 6 figure making coders must rule the world and they only cant rule it because of evil guburmunt/leftists, and rest of the masses are naturally below them and must serve their whim. At least moldbug is a bit lenient on the last bunch and don't threat everyone outside bayarea as shit, which I believe is one reason he is a bit more popular than other valley techolibertarianist. But that doesn't put him outside the mold that much.

I really wish everyone itt to live/work in silicon valley and be around these people and realize how elitists they are, while at the same time pretending to be ''anti elite'' in the first place. In the mind of the silicon valley coder you are just the scum of earth, a truck diver, a teacher, a soldier.. all are there to serve their rightfull true kings living in San Jose.

I think what I'm critisizing is more than Moldbug but the enviroment and conditions he come up with this ideology, you can see bits of it on that hbo series but sadly it is not enough.

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:37:58 2019 No.13194502

>>13194444
>He also did attract the attention of at least one real billionaire, Peter Thiel.
Good on him to move up the ladder then.

To give credit to Moldbug, he is one of the mild ones from the valley. This silicon valley technolibertarian ideology is miles worse than any ''ivy tower'' or ''cathedral'' gatekeeping you can imagine. These 6 figure making coders must rule the world and they only cant rule it because of evil guburmunt/leftists, and rest of the masses are naturally below them and must serve their whim. At least moldbug is a bit lenient on the last bunch and don't threat everyone outside bayarea as shit, which I believe is one reason he is a bit more popular than other valley techolibertarianist. But that doesn't put him outside the mold that much.

I really wish everyone itt to live/work in silicon valley and be around these people and realize how elitists they are, while at the same time pretending to be ''anti elite'' in the first place. In the mind of the silicon valley coder you are just the scum of earth, a truck diver, a teacher, a soldier.. all are there to serve their rightfull true kings living in San Jose.

I think what I'm critisizing is more than Moldbug but the enviroment and conditions he come up with this ideology, you can see bits of it on that hbo series but sadly it is not enough.

btw Thiel is the typical silicon valley weirdo elitist, he lacks the appeal to Molbug has. If you have less than 10 million dollars you are a trash to him,

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:39:33 2019 No.13194508

>>13194483
>but the enviroment and conditions he come up with this ideology
You may or may not be right, but it is a bit besides the point to criticize that instead of what Moldbug actually said, which tbqh you don't seem entirely familiar with. His dislike of the Cathedral isn't that they're an elite, it's that they pretend not to be, and that he considers them unworthy and destructive because of the way the Cathedral maintains power.

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:42:34 2019 No.13194533

>>13194508
Silicon Valley and people like Moldbug are a cathedral in it itself. I just find their criticism absurd when they do the same fucknig thing. Pushing ideology, gaining and maintaining power.

Moldbug doens't want to break Cathedral, he is not upset because Cathedral is in power, he is upset because he Cathedral (centered around Silicon Valley) is weaker, and he has a small role in that Valley Cathedral.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 20:46:53 2019 No.13194564 >>13194533 he Cathedral his* bloody brainfart

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:50:13 2019 No.13194583

>>13194533
Moldbug's problem with the cathedral is that it governs badly. He particularly doesn't like how it approaches crime and subsidizes antisocial behavior. Someone above mentioned LKY which is a good example of an authority that he doesn't belong to but respects. You can accuse him of lying if you like, but his actual stated reason for not liking the cathedral is not merely that it is a powerful entity that doesn't include him.

Anonymous Mon May 27 20:54:45 2019 No.13194614

>>13194583
Of course it is me projecting, basically saying ''this is what moldbug thinks''
Thats just my belief, I just think he is bitter that he is a code monkey, a well earning one but a monkey still, and bitter that he doesn't belong to the ruling class. His writings imho project that view.
Maybe this is my anecdotal experience in silicionvalley projecting, where I see mulititude of moldbugs, I don't know. Not saying he is wrong on his every criticism though.

To give him another credit, one of his arguments that I like most is his attack on the concept of ''democracy/freedom of thought/social liberties must go handinhand with economical boom'' which many mainstreamers have. A blantant lie, you can have tremendous economic progress in extremely anti free societies, provided you give concessions to economic freedom. LKY here is also a good example.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 20:58:52 2019 No.13194630 >>13194502 are the globalists the good guys and just trying to figure out what to do with the wealth of masses (90+%) who are useless in today's society?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 20:59:54 2019 No.13194635 >>13194533 The Cathedral has proved to be inept to govern the current world; what’s wrong with making it competent?

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:02:15 2019 No.13194641
File: 421 KB, 610x509, moldbug_jacobite.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13194412
>>13194502
I think it's a shallow criticism to attack his ideas by assuming some sort of perverse motivation on his part. This armchair psychology is tiresome! And frankly I'm not too sold on libertarian crowds wanting to foist their whims on other people as you say. Moldbugs anti-universalism and Land's politics of exit are the pure opposite of domineering
>>13194533
The NRx critique of the cathedral identifies a closed loop it forms on the population, with the role of propagandizing in a democracy. This loop has no "quality control" as moldbug would put it, or "reality affirming mechanism" as Land would put it. The anitdemocratic systems Moldbug proposes sever this loop by severing the popular will of the people from governance. His ideology isn't one that is seeking to replace the current one and install itself in the same cathedral system, it's trying to create a system in which the Cathedral has no power.
This is the whole reason Land was interested in Moldbug, the loop is pure cybernetics and it points towards leftist singularity if left unchecked.

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:02:27 2019 No.13194643

>>13194614
>I just think he is bitter that he is a code monkey, a well earning one but a monkey still, and bitter that he doesn't belong to the ruling class.
you know Im not entirely sure that he'd even disagree with you about this.

In any case I'm not sure what exactly we're disagreeing about here. Do you think there is any value in the rightwing arguments for a concentrated and formal authority, as opposed to a more vague and dispersed one?

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:07:35 2019 No.13194674

>>13194630
I'm not saying that, concerning your question, if automationt truly comes they will probably gun down us plebs who no longer provide the yearly 8% return on their investments. (the only thing they care for)

My issue with sillicon bugmens like him is that they are only unhappy because they are not in the club. Thats it, they would have no qualms at all if they were ''in''.
>>13194635
Oh and only way it will be competent is if the coder monkeys like me will be in charge!
I swear these silicon valley rats would be the first ones to accept, if elites offered them a place in their club.
>>13194641
It is shallow I admit, because I find people like him swallow. That doesn't mean he doesn't have some interesting ideas, which I gave examples above.
>>13194643
I just find his criticism to be disingenious. There are people who critisize king to establish a republic, a benevolent dictatorship, a faschist order, a communist society, whatever. And there are people who critisize king because they are not kings themselves and would be the first ones to defend monarchy when they become kings. Shitty anology but I hope you understand my point.

Again if anyone of you belong to /g/crowd do try to get a job in silicon valley, if you are a blue collar something and think moldbugs ideas are cool you don't want to hear about how they think of you peasants.

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:17:59 2019 No.13194733

>>13194674
>And there are people who critisize king because they are not kings themselves and would be the first ones to defend monarchy when they become kings.
This is undoubtedly true, and history is really just power struggles, but you aren't really answering my question. Do you think that there are no particuar advantages to living under Monarchy or Democracy or whatever? Because the reactionary argument is that there are substantial benefits to something like Monarchy, enough to outweigh the negatives.

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:30:08 2019 No.13194808

>>13194674
I mean to be fair nobody knows squat about everything, due to the constraints of time and space people need to be selective in the things they understand well. Voters try to approximate these unfounded and uncorroborated beliefs they have onto politicians, and the vain delusion of democrats is that this somehow distills itself into well informed legislation? I don't know squat about climate change so I'd rather a council of scientists determine what to do about it, and I certainly don't want anyone as ignorant as I on the matter dictating public policy with their votes. People are suggestible, ignorant and easy to control in the vast majority of matters. Some people are well informed on a few matters, and they can be appointed by the neocam shareholders to decide on behalf of the necessary ignorant, as most people are not intellectuals. Voting does not do a good job at selecting for technically competent people, it necessarily selects for demagoguery.
TLDR; I guess what I'm trying to say is that, if you look at society in a realistic fashion, most people are unintellectuals who are more concerned with practical, immediate matters and common sense. A man like Thiel is better suited to rule, and does infact rule as CEO, better than any elected official.
TLDRDR; people like Moldbug and Thiel SHOULD be elitists

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 21:35:27 2019 No.13194835 >>13194357 You clearly don't know anything about Moldbug. It's also funny how you accuse him of being ideological out of resentment when you literally hate rich people for being rich.

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:42:17 2019 No.13194873

>>13194808
>I don't know squat about climate change so I'd rather a council of scientists determine what to do about it, and I certainly don't want anyone as ignorant as I on the matter dictating public policy with their votes.
Moldbug would disagree with you on that. It's obviously a disaster waiting to happen to give money to scientists to fix problems, as it creates perverse incentives to keep that moolah stream going. Much better for a real sovereign, who isn't just concerned with his little patch of power the state gives him, to make such decisions.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 21:42:58 2019 No.13194881 >>13194835 >Moldbug >rich just a wagekek with extra dollars, hardly rich

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 21:43:30 2019 No.13194883 >>13194397 Why a professional pilot?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 21:47:19 2019 No.13194901 >>13194881 I didn't say he was.

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:51:16 2019 No.13194919

>>13194873
Well, I think he would agree it is only natural for a sovcorp to delegate some fraction of it's budget to an environmental research firm if there are practical incentives to do so. As long as the populace has no say in how large this fraction is there is little need to brainwash them to secure funding, and academia can be more honest. You can't just have ZERO research funding

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 21:54:54 2019 No.13194934 >>13194412 He was a founder you retard. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:59:40 2019 No.13194954
File: 33 KB, 485x443, moldbug_urbit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13194883

My favorite PHT[precise heursitic test] defines the trustees as the set of all active, certified, nonstudent pilots who accept the responsibility of trusteeship, as of the termination date of Plaingov. The set does not expand—you cannot become a trustee by taking flying lessons, and any rejection or resignation of the responsibility is irreversible. In other words, to paraphrase Lenin: all power to the pilots. (There are about 500,000 of them.)

Let’s look at the advantages of this PHT. I am not myself a pilot—I am neither wealthy enough, nor responsible enough. But everyone I’ve ever met who was a pilot, whether private, military or commercial, has struck me as not only responsible, but also independent-minded, often even adventurous. This is a particularly rare combination. To be precise, it is an aristocratic combination, and the word aristocracy is after all just Greek for good government. Pilots are a fraternity of intelligent, practical, and careful people who are already trusted on a regular basis with the lives of others. What’s not to like?

If we care to broaden this set, we can extend it by adding all practicing medical doctors, or all active and retired police and military officers, or better yet both. Believe it or not, doctors were once one of America’s most reactionary professions, in the forefront of the struggle against FDR. They also made housecalls. Now they are a bunch of Communist bureaucrats. But the boys in blue can keep them in line. Our fighting men know what to do with a Communist, if they have a free hand. More to the point, each of these professions is a technically demanding task in which the professional is trusted with the lives of others.

So we have a nice, clear, laser-like program. Washington has failed. The Constitution has failed. Democracy has failed. It is time for restoration, for national salvation, for a full reboot. We need a new government, a clean slate, a fresh hand which is smart, strong and fair. All power to the pilots!

t. Moldbug, open letter part 13

pilotocracy when

Anonymous Mon May 27 21:59:56 2019 No.13194957

>>13194919
I think it mainly revolves around sovereignty. An advocate of what Moldbug would call "rule by public policy" would say that "scientific" institutions should themselves be given the power to make decisions on issues that pertain to them, or at least to compel the "leaders" of government to carry out their decisions. A sane Moldbuggian government may well have some kind of funded environmental research body, but the decisions as to what to do about that information, if anything at all, would be left to the sovereign.

Anonymous Mon May 27 22:04:48 2019 No.13194982

>>13194957
>A sane Moldbuggian government may well have some kind of funded environmental research body,
I don't think they would. Separation of state and Harvard remember. Science would be funded by a patronage system I would imagine in an NRx style society.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 22:06:23 2019 No.13194988 >synthesis of Moldbug, Debord and Guenon is there a book or author that exists for this feel?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 22:12:04 2019 No.13195020 So what does land and yarvin thinks of each other?

Anonymous Mon May 27 22:39:03 2019 No.13195146

>>13195020
It's hard to say what Yarvin think's of Land. I'm sure he's heard of him but Land got into his stuff sorta after it ended and Yarvin is basically radio silent. I see this a lot with tech-types, they are often the most likely to have no social media of any sort.
Land obviously likes Yarvin, Yarvin is basically the prophet of the future Land proved would happen. Or something. Yarvin is like an engineer whereas Land is a mathematician, lehr und kuns. It's hard to think of something in which they differ beyond approach

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 22:45:46 2019 No.13195183 >>13194954 But /pol/ told me Air Force was a bunch of faggots

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 22:47:51 2019 No.13195194 Just want to say everyone itt is my nigga, I had no idea MM had such a following. I thought I was a lone autist who found his blog interesting, but his influence seems to extend farther than I thought.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 22:55:07 2019 No.13195237 >>13194988 >Debord I spit out my water

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 23:16:31 2019 No.13195339 >>13194954 I read the thread being interested in the guys writing. And then I read this. Holy fucking shit. Get me out of here.

Anonymous Mon May 27 23:31:20 2019 No.13195407
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>>13195339
There's no getting off Mr. Mencius's wild plane
but in all seriousness Moldbug is just having some fun here, he's not talking about pilot rulers so much as hypothetical exclusive pilot sufferage. The point is, better voters = better elected officials, so what if you took that principle to it's extreme?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 27 23:33:16 2019 No.13195418 >>13195237 The cathedral is the spectacle. Those ancient societies that Debord cites as existing before the spectacle developed? Monarchies. Debord is a crypto-reactionary

Anonymous Mon May 27 23:37:06 2019 No.13195429

>>13194982
Eh, funding of scientists by a personally ruled government is essentially patronage, because such an executive can be traced back to one person, the sovereign. The thing that is evil about Harvard is not that it gets government money and prestige, but that it illicitly controls that government and compels it to give it said money and prestige.

Anonymous Mon May 27 23:54:08 2019 No.13195489

>>13194954
How did we come to this point? The right-wing recommends someone so utterly stupid and boring that they should be embarrassed. Yet, they push on.
Please take a step back and look at this. There is zero value in it, 'muh critique of liberalism' doesn't matter when it is utter garbage and so opposed to artistic creation.
We are losing to the Left culturally for a very good reason.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:02:51 2019 No.13195508 >>13195489 Why are people sperging about the pilots?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:05:37 2019 No.13195514 >>13195489 ok why the fuck is this anti creative

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:06:50 2019 No.13195519 >>13195489 I dont get why moldbug's shitposts provoke this sort of reaction in people

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:08:29 2019 No.13195521 >>13195489 Have u even read UR, his blog?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:10:32 2019 No.13195528 >>13195519 Some (in my experience most) people are context blind and take dry humor at face value. The ability to parse dry humor is ironically a sign of high intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:10:47 2019 No.13195530 File: 16 KB, 375x375, 18447235_210712379437766_8234634088263067402_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13195418 >Guy Louis Debord (/dəˈbɔːr/; French: [gi dəbɔʁ]; 28 December 1931 – 30 November 1994) was a French Marxist theorist

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:13:57 2019 No.13195537 >>13195508 Because it's embarrassing.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:17:39 2019 No.13195549 File: 28 KB, 510x600, 1558314509045.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13195514 If you can't recognise that this isn't art then you might have autism. Let me guess, you're also in threads about modern art decrying the loss of beauty...

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:23:25 2019 No.13195576 >>13195549 How should we rectify this situation? Must the postmodern right split it’s soul and abandon it’s post-ironic, memetic origins?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 00:29:54 2019 No.13195598 File: 14 KB, 200x200, cronus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13195489 >not realizing that accelerationism is about individual temporal comfort

Anonymous Tue May 28 00:41:31 2019 No.13195632
File: 1.29 MB, 4096x2304, tkmz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13195549
If I were to hazard a guess as to why you think that isn't art it would probably be along the lines of "this artist blindly copies his forefathers and fail's to create what he truly wants". Right?
Partially, I agree. If what you see in the artist who made that is true, it isn't really art. For it to be art the artist has to communicate his emotions.
However, I think what you so arrogantly overlook is the possibility for an artist to feel genuine inspiration from the works of Michelangelo or Bernini. To express this inspiration and his own personal feelings in a unique piece is no doubt good art. To literally copy a statue (as there are many copies of famous statues made) is not art.
I think tkmz is very artistic for example but expresses an extremely unhealthy mind in his art.
Some modern art is genuinely awful though, despite being untraditional. There is no value to drawing a mustache over the mona lisa or concept artist Photoshop wizardry that rearranges premade assets and struggles to show the artists personal touch
tldr; fuck you roger scruton is based????

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:07:31 2019 No.13195722 File: 374 KB, 1080x1764, Screenshot_20190528-080645__01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] OH NO OH NO OH NO NO NO HA HA HA HA

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:09:41 2019 No.13195729

>>13195576
Not at all. There is an incisiveness in the communication of memes that needs to be unleashed in art, and the post-ironic is partly a recognition of a turning of the left/right which presents an opportunity to go beyond the politics of Enlightenment and liberalism (and two-party politics, or divided governments). Where these are opposed in theory they are also often continued in form, hence the boring and overly systematic language in right-wing texts.

This follows the very intent of liberal communication and its sense of art, so while someone like Moldbug may critique the tendency of modern politics to shift left he himself participates in the very form which allows this to happen. There is a constant laying to rest of ideas, where the essay takes on the methods of mass graves - the hollowing out of words and images for their resource potential. And this can be contrasted with the fermentation and infusion of a nectar into words and ideas, the descent into drunkenness which gives them vitality and power - this is perhaps the greatest draw of a figure like Nietzsche, even more than the ideas themselves.

Obviously, none of this is simple and my intention isn't to blame these people for our problems. However, it may be well past time that the right considers how it caused its own downfall rather than blaming some occupational group for the destruction of art. Perhaps an annoying argument, but the right is always trumpeting personal achievement and strength, so why is it that this ideal falls away into weakness and resignation in the face of art and intellectual pursuits. There is, in some sense, a leftist mode of thought in the right's relation to aesthetics.

Obviously we are at a point now where a complete shift of power is required to cut out the rot, but I would be very concerned for our future if technical administration is the basis for beauty and intellectual pursuits. There is a very thin line between these technocratic theories and something like Stalinism (as hard as that is to hear, it is true), all while having an even worse understanding of aesthetics. We have already seen what the elevation of businesses and moral relativism into a position of hierarchy has done for artistic creation. Why would we want to unleash such mechanisms and give them even more power?

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:16:16 2019 No.13195751

>>13192264
dude oscillates between regular libertarian rhetoric claiming, with the most halfassed evidence, that laissez-faire capitalism is best for society, and obnoxious edgy jacobite shit where he invalidates all of his own points by jacking off about how much he hates poor people. Thinks it's a huge crime that the american right wing is uncool.

>>13192446
honestly hilarious how he gets away with associating puritanism with the left when that's the most full-retard position he takes.

>>13192512
for some reason almost every set of political opinions with any sort of traction has a blind spot to israel/palestine where they become completely incapable of avoiding positions which tacitly advocate ethnic criteria to citizenship and thereby ethnic cleansing.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:20:37 2019 No.13195760 >>13195722 fucking lol

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:24:01 2019 No.13195771 >>13195760 one cant take voting too seriously, besides that dummies hyperinflation plan is based

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:25:33 2019 No.13195776
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>>13195751
>that laissez-faire capitalism is best for society, and obnoxious edgy jacobite shit where he invalidates all of his own points by jacking off about how much he hates poor people

these are not mutually exclusive positions by any stretch

read.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:25:38 2019 No.13195777 >>13195722 Based and redpilled

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:26:41 2019 No.13195778

>>13195576
4chan associating itself with the right could only ever be a temporary aberration. The right is too retrogressive, too self-involved, and too homogenous to incorporate a radical wing of cultural marauders. The more the 4chan wing considering themselves to be the "right" tries to influence and reclaim the real, outside Right, the more they'll become an impotent advertising wing for mainstream political actors, and they'll be disposed of as such. 4chan is a community without any consensus, there are no common positions in its rhetoric, and so it can't be plotted on the already-arbitrary dichotomy between left and right.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:27:27 2019 No.13195780 >>13195771 I was laughing at the bottom of the pic

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:28:30 2019 No.13195784

>>13195632
To be clear, I was referring to Moldbug's unartistic work, not the statue which I think is a wonderful image. The method of production is an important consideration, and a difficult subject to start, but it is interesting how the visual arts have become more emotional and individualistic while the textual have become withdrawn in a completely opposite direction. As if they are equalising forces.
In other words, the textual has its own methods, its own purposes, and the extent to which it is divided from the visual, and any collective purpose, reveals how far we have been separated from artistry in any form. This essentially drives the desire for more information, constant reproduction, as if a hollowing out was the purpose of modern thinking all along. Data mining is then seen in an altogether different life, a natural process of how modern man views his world.
Much of our art is a formalism of return, abstract art clearly represents our own abstraction and the attempt to return to deep feeling, the senses unleashed in collective activity and celebration. The communal nature of art was lost, the sacrifice for something greater, so it is inevitable that the form becomes self-dividing, something less than one-dimensional representation.

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:29:01 2019 No.13195789

>>13195776
don't worry, moldbug isn't clever enough to make a consistent position out of them. the problem isn't the incompatibility of the core tenets, it is that NRx isn't done out of intellectual rigorat all, it's a pathological attempt to validate the social darwinism that underpins the egos of its advocates.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:30:33 2019 No.13195794 >>13195789 its a consistent position from what I recall, and FTA is an actual argument for it.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:31:18 2019 No.13195797 >>13195722 I guess the blockchain was communist at its very inception.

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:34:57 2019 No.13195805

>>13195789
you clearly havent read him at all because laissez faire mixed with monarchy is his entire MO. That is, the spontaneous order so lauded by libertarians requires strict rule of law, property rights, etc. that can only be guaranteed by responsible authority. He talks about what to do with the poor as well, though there seems to be a kind of fatalism towards that issue in nrx, and with Land it reaches actual pessimism of the form 'If they get everything ‘right’, they even sleaze their way into epochs of upward social mobility, and with this great innovation, semi-sustainable dysgenics gets started. In its fundamentals it is hideously simple: social progress destroys the brain.'

Almost every criticism this thread has just been some dumb attack on the supposed motives of the people instead of the ideas they're promoting.

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:38:43 2019 No.13195811

>>13195805
"guaranteed by responsible authority" begs the question of why you're even using a laissez-faire system in the first place, because the practical arguments for such a system are dubious and essentially religious, and far outweighed by the moral/individualist arguments against aggressive taxation. Wiping out the moral basis for an economically libertarian government by stapling an oligarchy onto it is so self-defeating it barely scans as serious.

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:38:57 2019 No.13195812

>>13195805
this is slightly wrong.
he isn't monarchy advocate.
thats what he says Hoppe got wrong.

moldbug would put dumb and poor into VR world.
Land would have them sink or swim

Have to say in light of modern humans, Land is more idealistic and M more realistic lol

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:41:46 2019 No.13195818 >>13195811 >the practical arguments for such a system are dubious and essentially religious They're based on historical examples. You might be confusing it with socialism

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:45:12 2019 No.13195823 >>13195818 Only in the sense that it's essentially identical to socialism, wherein a group of well-intentioned idiots spends untold millions of pages scapegoating all their gripes onto the same devious enemy and claiming it counts as a 'critique'.

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:46:50 2019 No.13195827

>>13195823
It is very different than socialism, because they can point at periods and say 'things worked pretty well then, we should try that again'.

If your benchmark for similarity is that both ideologies identify an enemy, then you're going to have to include basically everything else.

Anonymous Tue May 28 01:53:07 2019 No.13195844

>>13195827
Only if you assume that all of the benefits of these examples were due to the economic policies (instead of the more likely assumption, that the economic policies flourished due to, for example, the industrial revolution) and if you forget that there were many good reasons that laissez-faire economics fell out of favor. If "things went well during the hegemony of this economic policy" was an argument that worked on its own, it would paint a far rosier picture of Keynes than of the Austrians.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 01:56:55 2019 No.13195854 >>13195844 >Only if you assume that all of the benefits of these examples were due to the economic policies You only have to assume that some of them were, which is what libertarians do. Obviously there are other factors in any historical example.

Anonymous Tue May 28 02:01:11 2019 No.13195867

>>13195811
>"guaranteed by responsible authority" begs the question of why you're even using a laissez-faire system in the first place
Both L&M want away from trusted third parties, they reference Szabo a lot.

> Wiping out the moral basis
Libertarianism with ethics is just dumb as shit. Those faggots couldn't enforce their NAP if their fucking lives dependent on it because they're so fucking spooked by them.

Anonymous Tue May 28 02:03:32 2019 No.13195879

>>13195854
Even in the most charitable reading of history, unregulated industry is only sustainable during short periods of intense growth, after which the pace tapers off and society tends to that which festered during the deregulation period.

>>13195867
The ethical libertarians still have an argument, where NRx managed to sweep the rug out from under itself.

Anonymous Tue May 28 02:05:42 2019 No.13195886

>>13195879
Ethical libertarians have no argument. They lost it. They couldn't enforce their NAP when the Founding Fathers couped Articles of Confederation. I suppose the Confederate States of America gave it a good bang, but got again destroyed by stronger force.

Ethics with system like NAP is just asking yourself to lose.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 02:06:31 2019 No.13195887 >>13195879 >Even in the most charitable reading of history, unregulated industry is only sustainable during short periods of intense growth Why do you say this

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 02:07:26 2019 No.13195891 >>13195887 He is unironic Keynesian or neo-Marxist retard.

Anonymous Tue May 28 02:10:54 2019 No.13195905
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>>13195784
Ok, I think I finally understand where you are coming from.
I'm tempted to say writing of this nature really should be uncreative. He isn't stupid by my estimation. The purpose of UR, for moldbug, was to explore metapolitics and create new ideologies. It's an indulgence of his contrarian, argumentative nature which likewise draws people like us to threads like these to talk about it. Ideas aren't emotions, and playing with them isn't self expression.
Art might be a blind spot of his but I think we can use metapolitics to save it. All art is necessarily imitation of the world, illusionary. As such, the artist needs real world action to sustain themselves.
I think the dynamic within society will generally continue to be one in which leftists make art and rightists give leftists material to make art of. The Jacobite movement had a rich artistic side, invigorated by the romanticized lost cause of the Stuarts. Acting on certain principles can cause this synchronization of reaction and reation, but it isn't Moldbug's job to do this. He's two steps removed from the artist and will not have art made of him, rather, he inspires the subjects of future art if he is lucky. Without this fresh material art becomes nasty and ingrown, as artists try to portray art of art of art, recycling the illusions of other artists into increasingly inbred theorypaintings.
There's also an economic dynamic to art that is worth mentioning. I believe, as I think most reactionaries do, that patron funded art is superior to commercially funded art. I think this should be an obvious mapping from the existing principles of the thing. Libertarian anti-IP activism is greatly interesting to me as a result. I think if IP were dismantled it would see a rapid evolution and efflorescence of art, as commercial art dies and heartfelt independent art becomes ubiquitous. Art would become more reactionary without even knowing it, and uncreative reactionaries would be the greatest allies art ever had.
These two things are what neoreaction offers to reunite us with good art.

Anonymous Tue May 28 02:13:18 2019 No.13195918

>>13195905
Art isn't necessarily imitation of the world. What you know of Rome is basically fiction, created by artists. The issue if the actual Rome was like it is completely different. What I am saying it creates the reality to an extent too, without being imitation of the reality.

Anonymous Tue May 28 02:14:48 2019 No.13195924

>>13195886
The argument inherently is that anything else is amoral, which is self-consistent. I just don't find it very useful.

>>13195887
Because the examples of bursts of gdp growth over 10%/year are consistent in their starting conditions (a large population with no economic security that can be put to work in awful conditions, rapid technological progress locally if not globally) and they always end when society reaps the rewards of that growth, converting it into living conditions, infrastructure, research, and all the other trappings of a developed economy, birth rates slow, the population urbanizes and educates itself, GDP growth changes from a sprinter's pace to a marathon. The catch is that not all of these periods of extreme growth happened under laissez-faire regimes.

>>13195891
0 for 2. Keep trying, you'll get it eventually.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 02:19:39 2019 No.13195934 >>13195924 But why does that mean the state should alter its economic policy after bursts of growth? Also you seem to just be describing very recent democracies

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 02:23:14 2019 No.13195942 >>13195918 So it's kind of like a hyperstition then. That's interesting. I still think it is solely an imitation in the sense that despite existing itself, art can only be produced by manipulating memories of the observed

Anonymous Tue May 28 02:25:18 2019 No.13195945

>>13195934
The state alters its policies due to economic pressures that are caused, inherently, by the period of growth. Have you just never stopped to wonder why nobody tried it before? Through dozens of cycles of economic development? Even China couldn't continue running the policies that got it off the ground, and they designed their economic development cycle artificially, from the ground up. Eventually, everyone responds to carrots and sticks.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 03:29:57 2019 No.13196129 >>13195751 >associating puritanism with the left The US "left" (progressives) are puritanical at the core and in the way they enforce their moral values.

Anonymous Tue May 28 03:49:52 2019 No.13196173
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>>13196129
>>13196129
>US "left" (progressives)

It's top down installation, meaning coming from Academia, spreading to Woke Capital companies like Google, from which it spreads to gen-pop. One of the greatest skins it wears is that it pretends to be not for profit when that is blatantly wrong. We can all look at Big Banks & Big Capital reaping cash from it.

It pretends to be for equality which is a mask for resentment against Whites. It's wearing the skin of humanism while being the same old authoritarian utopianism as Communism was. It's just cultural marxism in a more pathological form.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 03:55:16 2019 No.13196180 >>13196173 Note that the quote is White Supremacy, just the other side of the coin. Just like Nazis blaming Jews for everything IS Chosen People theology, just the other side of the coin

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 04:05:52 2019 No.13196196 He is ugly af. Ugly people use logic and dialectics because they have no other weapons to "dominate" others.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 04:06:52 2019 No.13196202 >>13196196 Logic is for low IQ people.

Anonymous Tue May 28 04:15:38 2019 No.13196222

>>13196129
The only reason anybody says that is because it's easy to trace puritanical roots through any American cultural institution, and because puritans are uncool. The idea that it's unique to the left is absurd. You could use puritanism vs calvinism as a vague metaphor for the modern left and right respectively, but that's an oversimplification you'd use only to make both sides sound equally retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 04:17:53 2019 No.13196224 >>13192486 aren't Dubai has a literal king?

Anonymous Tue May 28 04:25:07 2019 No.13196238

>>13196222
>The idea that it's unique to the left is absurd.
I agree. Also, I don't really use the terms "left" and "right" unironically, because they're poorly defined (I don't think Moldbug does either).
IMO the political elites in the US don't really differ that much on the most important issues and they both have protestant roots. The SJWs/progressives just seem more uptight when it comes to moral issues lately, hence the association with puritanism.

Anonymous Tue May 28 04:28:49 2019 No.13196245

>>13196222
>The idea that it's unique to the left is absurd
You have to understand that American tradition is offshoot of modern British tradition which is offshoot of Protestantism. You have to go back to (with Moldberg's argument) and compare to pre-Protestant Europe to get proper 'right'. Meaning that, all of U.S. and Anglo tradition in general is leftward because it's Protestant.

Basically Erik von Kuehnelt Leddihn argument.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 04:34:40 2019 No.13196251 >>13192516 Sounds lame as fuck. Why would anyone listen to what this guy has to say about anything?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 04:35:48 2019 No.13196252 >>13196251 Because he made a long form, coherent, contrarian, argument drawing from unconventional sources.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 08:30:11 2019 No.13196839 >>13192264 right wing gramsci

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 09:11:40 2019 No.13197002 >>13194954 This is part of his letter to open minded PROGRESSIVES. Of course it's kinda bonkers. Bet you didn't read Heidegger either.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 09:12:44 2019 No.13197009 >>13197002 meant for >>13195339

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 09:24:45 2019 No.13197061 >>13194954 Becoming a pilot requires thousands of hours of training and accompanied flights. Becoming a cop can be done in as little as 100 hours in some states.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:19:16 2019 No.13197550 >>13196222 Yes, but MM is a Tory if anything, while all Americana is essentially Whiggish in nature to varying degrees.

Anonymous Tue May 28 11:31:00 2019 No.13197592

>>13196222
>>13196238
>>13196245

This is why the Overton window concept is so pivotal in understanding Moldbug; the fact that it has historically shifted ever leftward throughout Anglo-American history for the past three centuries or so, means there is no longer an authentic conservative movement anywhere in the atmosphere. All existing conservative movements prior to Nrx, were basically liberals who were 10 to 20 years behind the center of the Overton window; the conservative of today wouldn't dream of running on a platform of segregation, Moldbug is not infatuated with contemporary conservatism and it's whiggish tendencies, he is trying to dredge up something far older from the Anglo tradition that doesn't really exist anymore, more of an appeal to order and the divine right of kings than simply winding the clock back fifty years

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:32:14 2019 No.13197598 >>13196251 You have to be at least 18 to post here

Anonymous Tue May 28 11:37:49 2019 No.13197615

>>13197592
>All existing conservative movements prior to Nrx, were basically liberals who were 10 to 20 years behind the center of the Overton window

Because they are 'conservative' in the context of the ideology (liberalism). They are its justifying force, they make it possible by not defecting but by conserving it. The Democracy even in United States works by tacit, implicit and explicit assumption that the minority party accepts whatever the majority party does.

All defectors like Confederate States got crushed, and all alternatives (ie. Monarchies) in Europe by 1950 with the release of Adorno's Authoritarian Person got damn nearly criminalized.

The debate of and for liberalism is over since it achieved superiority in both Europe and US. And the impetus was Luther's scribblings mroe or less.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:39:36 2019 No.13197620 >>13197615 Carl Schmitt formulated the 'conservative' in context of Liberalism extremely well and my sub-standard brain forgets how eloquently he put it but I recommend reading his works. Parliamentary Crisis is amazing read, so is Political Theology.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:42:40 2019 No.13197633 >>13196252 He's just plain wrong, though. Read Neoreaction: A Basilisk, he gets destroyed lol

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:42:58 2019 No.13197634 >>13192560 >he doesn't believe that we form our ideas out of the universe, not the other way around

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:45:30 2019 No.13197644 >>13193156 >koolaid on race bruh you still think equality exists ffs

Anonymous Tue May 28 11:45:37 2019 No.13197645

>>13197633
>A software engineer sets out to design a new political ideology, and ends up concluding that the Stewart Dynasty should be reinstated. A cult receives disturbing messages from the future, where the artificial intelligence they worship is displeased with them. A philosopher suffers a mental breakdown and retreats to China, where he finds the terrifying abyss at the heart of modern liberalism. Are these omens of the end times, or just nerds getting up to stupid hijinks? Por que no los dos! Neoreaction a Basilisk is a savage journey into the black heart of our present eschaton. We're all going to die, and probably horribly. But at least we can laugh at how completely ridiculous it is to be killed by a bunch of frog-worshiping manchildren. Featuring essays on: * Tentacled computer gods at the end of the universe * Deranged internet trolls who believe women playing video games will end western civilization * The black mass in which the President of the United States sacrificed his name * Fringe economists who believe it's immoral for the government to prevent an asteroid from hitting the Earth * The cabal of lizard people who run the world * How to become a monster that haunts the future * Why infusing the blood of teenagers for eternal youth is bad and stupid.
Different anon, just reading this blurb tells me that this book is utterly worthless.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:49:20 2019 No.13197660 >>13197620 Will do

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 11:50:51 2019 No.13197669 >>13197633 Cringe and yikespilled

Anonymous Tue May 28 11:52:05 2019 No.13197674

>>13197660
He, and Erik von Kuehnelt Leddihn insert the 'real right' to Moldbug's argument (pre-Protestant right), supplementing Moldbug really well.

Kuehnelt-Leddihn's books are all available at Mises and his articles are all available in Unz Review (lol).

Carl Schmitt's stuff is in Libgen, though I got the Parliamentary Crisis from Google search

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 12:17:25 2019 No.13197810 File: 38 KB, 200x266, 1559060245740.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13197633 >Neoreaction: A Basilisk >by Elizabeth Sandifer

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 16:07:06 2019 No.13199016 >>13192264 my scrotum smells

>>	Anonymous Tue May 28 16:10:31 2019 No.13199034 >>13197633 He doesn't get destroyed at all. Neoreaction: A Basilisk is a terrible book.

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/lit/ - Literature