/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13171148]

Isn't Jesus supposed to be God? Why is he praying to himself?

[Anonymous No.13171150]

Function of prayer isn't a magic wish list, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.13171151]

learn to trinity

[Anonymous No.13171153]

>>13171148
To show us the right example

[Anonymous No.13171155]

>>13171148
1) because he's satan, sent to distract the plebs from true salvation (i.e. neo-platonic monism)
2) because his "dad" (Joseph) is a literal cuckold

[Anonymous No.13171167]

>>13171151
Explain it to me please.
>>13171153
So its just a puppet show every time Jesus is talking to God? That makes some of the scripture seem a bit silly.

[Anonymous No.13171269]

John 5:19–27

[Anonymous No.13171281]

>>13171148
don't try to think about or explain it because you'll fall into some sort of heresy.

[Anonymous No.13171286]

>>13171148
Jesus is praying to the Father
>>13171167
Pic related sums up the doctrine of the trinity. There are three eternal persons, all are equally the one God, in total harmony with one another. They are not individually each 1/3rd of God, and they are not collectively three gods, the three are one

[Anonymous No.13171289]

is not understanding the trinity the ultimate mark of a pseud?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.13171313]

Christians could never figure this out so they invented a third entity, a sort of mega-soul for the both of them. They mistakenly believe they're monotheists this way.

Christians are dipshits

>>13171289
No, buying into it is.

[Anonymous No.13171335]

>>13171313
*cringe and yikes!*

[Anonymous No.13171365]

>>13171150
FPBP

[Anonymous No.13171389]

>>13171148
God can do anything he wants.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.13171403]

>>13171389
And ends up doing nothing for all eternity
Ever.

[Anonymous No.13171419]

>>13171148
So he can talk to his father(himself).

[Anonymous No.13171444]

Because all prayer is ultimately prayer to oneself

[Anonymous No.13171457]

>>13171313
And here I was, starting to think that you might have some taste and knowledge.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.13171468]

>>13171457
Oh I have knowledge alright. I was Christian once.

[Anonymous No.13171477]

>>13171457
you newfag.

[Anonymous No.13171482]

>>13171468
I'll say a prayer for you. :^)

[Anonymous No.13171490]

>>13171313
t. sodomite dying from GRIDS

[Anonymous No.13171502]

The only way I see it *breathes in on cigarette* the rejection of God is a rejection of reality itself.

[Anonymous No.13171527]

>>13171286
why does he pray to the father? if they are both God, aren't they on equal footing (ie all knowing and all powerful)

[Anonymous No.13171555]

>>13171403
Get a load of this FAGGOT « Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ »
Nobody likes you, namefag.
« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » « Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » « Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » « Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ »
« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ »

[Anonymous No.13171603]

Why do religious threads get deleted on /lit/?

[Anonymous No.13171622]

Even God is praying to God, this is how great God is.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.13171633]

Christians could never figure this out so they invented a third entity, a sort of mega-soul for the both of them. They mistakenly believe they're monotheists this way.

Christians are dipshits

>>13171289
No, buying into it is.

>>13171603
If only they where!

[Anonymous No.13171656]

>>13171286
Fuck this shit
If A = B = C, then A must equal C.
>inb4 god transcends logic
Fuck you all the greatest thinkers and theologians of history (yes, even the ones whose interpretations you love) have spent their lives intepreting and examining the holy word. To say the work of god is uninterpretable by examination is bullshit (and all examination has to be logical otherwise nobody would bother examine it.)

Why would god bother to give us a holy scripture to read if he didnt want us to examine and interpret it?

[Anonymous No.13171668]

>>13171656
Based retard

[Anonymous No.13171669]

>>13171148
Trinity, my dude.

[Anonymous No.13171715]

>>13171148
I don't have a picture of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, but imagine i asked the same question

[Anonymous No.13172129]

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Son. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus was praying to the Father. Neither are the Holy Spirit. All three are God, three Persons in One Being. This is the doctrine of the Trinity.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.13172142]

>>13172129
Therefore you are polytheist

[Anonymous No.13172154]

>>13172142
Learn Haskell.

[Anonymous No.13172163]

>>13171419
Jesus isn't the Father.

>>13171527
Because Jesus, in addition to being fully God, is also fully human, and humans pray. Jesus is not the Father, and prayer is how one's thought relates to the Father. Jesus during His earthly ministry was not all-knowing. Jesus voluntarily gave up some of His infinite knowledge to become human, and learned about the world much as a human child does, but with His divine grace keeping Him from performing or speaking error, with other mysteries being revealed to Him by the Father. So it is completely appropriate for Jesus to pray to the Father.

>>13171656
God exists on a higher plane. We're four dimensional creatures trying to understand a being of infinite dimensions. If you demand to understand all the mysteries of God, you don't understand anything about God at all.

[Anonymous No.13172167]

>>13171633
>>13172142
Could someone walk me through how to set up a filter?

[Anonymous No.13172177]

>>13172142
Three Persons united in One Being adds up to One God.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.13172193]

>>13172163
>God exists on a higher shelf
The invented shelf of the imaginary kitchen. We know we know. I can’t wait till you’re all there someday

>>13172177
No. You ask us to swallow bullshit and pretend it’s steak, anon. NO.

[Anonymous No.13172212]

>>13171286
for the more /g/ oriented one

[Anonymous No.13172220]

>>13172212
JavaScript is the katechon. It alone restrains the war of all against all.

[Anonymous No.13172294]

*ahm!*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

[Anonymous No.13172474]

oh god who cares it's easier to just say whatever the fuck I want and browbeat people until they stop pestering me about it rather than read that stupid book

[Anonymous No.13172491]

he's praying I don't find out where he is because he knows he owes me five dollars

[Anonymous No.13172732]

>>13171148
>2k19
>Accept the First Council of Nicaea

Disgusting.

[Anonymous No.13172762]

Didn't odin also sacrifice himself to himself

[Anonymous No.13172865]

>>13171286
>Jesus is praying to the Father
For what reason other than symbolism would a being who could convey any message to any person in any way instantly need to kneel and pray to an entity who already knows what the message he intends to say is

[Anonymous No.13172937]

>>13172193
Flatly denying things beyond your understanding does not make you appear wise.

[Anonymous No.13172968]

>>13172865
Jesus was wholly man and wholly God so you can't interpret him purely on the grounds of godhood. God also isn't a computer in Christianity God loves, God weeps, God hates. The fact that humanity is conscious at all is proof enough that there is more to God's will than just for the universe to play itself out like a simulation. You could also ask why Jesus even needed to suffer at all, but you'd be even further misinterpreting the whole thing. Why did Jesus walk around as a man healing when he could have been superman and saved everyone in 5 seconds?
Desu I recommend reading Augustin or Aquinas, they're both good for Q&A curiosity and they stress most every "but why x happen" about Christianity. Most modern criticisms of Christianity are older than Islamm

[Anonymous No.13173019]

>>13172167
You can type this post but you can't type "how do I filter on 4chan?" into the search bar?
>>13172142
Muhammadpilled

[Anonymous No.13173093]

>>13173019
Because I wanted to overtly diss the namefag. That should be obvious.

[Anonymous No.13173098]

>>13173093
Then you're an idiot. You don't get annoying people to go away by giving them attention.

[Anonymous No.13173131]

>>13171148
Aren't we all collections of subatomic particles swirling in a vacuum? Wouldn't asking your boss for a raise basically be like asking yourself for a raise?

[Anonymous No.13173139]

>>13173098
I suppose you're trying to convince me to not respond to you by saying that, eh?

[Anonymous No.13173143]

>>13171148
There's intra-trinity dialogue even in the OT.

Genesis 3:28 "And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'"

I really dislike the two responses most common to these sorts of questions:

1) This doesn't make easy logical sense, so it must be nonsense.
2) LMAO JUST DON'T THINK ABOUT IT

Jesus praying in the garden is of the deepest philosophical moments in the entire text. If the above two answers don't seem helpful, consider meditating on the text. What does it mean that God himself asked "if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."

Yes, it's an example for us to follow, but not like Jesus was play acting a funny ritual to do. He did it because setting down your desires and instead saying "Thy will be done" is the most Good, True and Beautiful thing in this world.

[Anonymous No.13173171]

>>13173143
AND ANOTHER THING

Prayer is always involves the entire Trinity. You pray to the Father. The reason you get to do this is because of sonship imputed to you through the redemptive work of the Son. And when you pray the Spirit intercedes and translates our prayer into a holy one.

Romans 8:26-27 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

[Anonymous No.13173288]

God is in a perpetual state of active prayer and worship.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.13173350]

>>13172937
Placing your imaginary friend beyond comprehension makes you a childish living in denial. You’re sad that magic isn’t real

[Anonymous No.13173442]

Don't think about it too much.
Jesus is truth
Jesus is your brother
Jesus died for you
Jesus suffered for you
Jesus loves you so much he died for you
Jesus loves you so much
Jesus loves you
Jesus loves
Jesus love
Jesus.

Jesus.

[Anonymous No.13173594]

>>13173350
the "imaginary friend" has a historical basis
Can't wait till you kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.13173965]

>>13173350
Cringe.

[Anonymous No.13174148]

>>13173442
:)

[Anonymous No.13174188]

>>13173442
wtf, i love jesus

[Anonymous No.13174313]

I dare anyone to show me one place in the New Testament where Jesus refers to himself as God

[Anonymous No.13174462]

>>13173594
Theres also a historical basis for zeus. You believe in him too?

[Anonymous No.13175096]

>>13174313
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A13-58&version=NIV
John 8:13-58

“I am the light of the world” (John 8:12)
“I am the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6)
“I am the only way to the Father” (John 14:6)
“I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25)
“I am the Good Shepherd” (John 10:11)
“I am the door” (John 10:9)
“I am the living bread” (John 6:51)
“I am the true vine” (John 15:1)
“I am the Alpha and Omega” Rev.1:7,8)

“The Father and I are one” (John 10:30)

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A5-14&version=NIV
John 14:5-14

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+2%3A5-13&version=NIV
Mark 2:5-13

“baptize new disciples in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19)

“All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.” (Revelation 21:7)

[Anonymous No.13175223]

>>13173594
I love christcucks. If you don't believe you can go neck yourself and go to hell, typical.

[Anonymous No.13175266]

>>13175096
Jesus is obviously transcending signifiers. As the son of God, as we are Gods children, God lives in him and he lives in God, likewise unto us. But in relation to OP, there is definitely nothing like I AM GOD. I COME TO SACRIFICE MYSELF. Nothing like that anywhere. Jesus spoke in parables but still never broke into anything that could justify Paul’s writings and Christology in general. Not smacking Christology either, just, if your gonna do honest mapping, you should put things where they belong

[Anonymous No.13175291]

>>13172163
>Jesus voluntarily gave up some of His infinite knowledge
heresy

[Anonymous No.13175352]

>>13175266
Did you even read any of the source text posted?

[Anonymous No.13175366]

because we're all God, and Jesus was a pantheist, and people were too stupid and took him literally.

[Anonymous No.13175389]

>>13175291
It isn't heresy. When Jesus incarnated He got a human mind and learned things by experience.

[Anonymous No.13175474]

>>13175352
>The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Jesus is absolutely clear in both you links, about the distinction between him and the Father. Like I said, he’s transcending signifiers. He’s not saying I AM GOD. Rather, he says, as I live in God, he lives in me. I, as Son of Man, Son of the Father. His domination of the word itself, going between, son/father, man/god, is clear evidence that he is Lord over the monuments of language, that dictate. He is the spiritual king, he is showing his dominion over the corrupted signs that have failed his people. He is showing the promised land, that of freedom from tyranny, both in this world and the spiritual/psychic

[Anonymous No.13175701]

>>13175474
Did you miss this one?
>I will be their God

[Anonymous No.13175772]

>>13175701
>“All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.” (Revelation 21:7)

you must also take it that when he says “they will be my children” he’s implying that he’s actually their parent. Again, he traversing your borders and your custom made by the church based on the writings of Paul make unquestion when equates himself with the father, but when he talks about them being his children, you apply a different rule, that of analogy. Literal and analogy alike Jesus lays asunder. get on my level. The closes Jesus comes to saying is the Father is that he lives in him and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.13175819]

>>13175772
>show me ONE verse where Jesus claims to be God
>ok here's a dozen
>NO HE'S JUST BEING METAPHORICAL

(Jesus never says He's the Father, because He isn't. He says He's God, which He is.)

[Anonymous No.13175828]

>>13171633
Fuck off tripfag

[Anonymous No.13175873]

>>13175819
I didn’t say he’s being metaphorical.

>Jesus never says He's the Father, because He isn't. He says He's God, which He is.

Absolute blasphemy. You represent the fears of the Pharisees, and the church, being so against Judaism, makes you feel proud to stand against them, whereas Jesus was there as the Jewish Messiah, to fulfill the Law, not overturn it. You represent the force of separation between three faiths that worship the same God because of doctrines you have never come to fully understand.

[Anonymous No.13175888]

>>13171148
From the perspective of Jesus this 'praying to oneself' is perhaps best understood as 'meditation' --not quite, of course, but the closest approximation language in its present state affords.

[Anonymous No.13175933]

>>13175873
Jesus is God. If you deny that, you deny God. Anything you say on the subject of theology is worthless.

[Anonymous No.13177089]

>>13171148
Because besides being God, he's also man. He lived like humanity lived (except for sin) and because of that he also prayed.

[Anonymous No.13178128]

God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are different beings but one in purpose and heart

[Anonymous No.13178335]

>>13171151
If you think you can do this you are committing heresy. The Trinity is a holy mystery.

[Anonymous No.13178360]

>>13171289
It's autism filter.

[Anonymous No.13178373]

In the epistle of John, where Jesus is directly described as Logos, the living God, Jesus doesn't actually pray, he speaks directly to God, because as he states in the same book 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father'

In Matthew he is portrayed as a King, being called Lord more frequently, and the exact nature of his kingdom is described more completely
In Mark he is portrayed as a servant, always taking action suddenly without any unnecessary details
It's in Luke that he is portrayed as a regular human being, and it is here that he prays frequently

[Anonymous No.13178374]

>>13178128
Tritheism pls go

[Anonymous No.13178378]

>>13175291
ok? what are you gonna do about it, cry?

[Anonymous No.13178413]

>>13171148
The trinity is a spook and early Christians didn’t care about that shit at all the the Bible never mentions it, it talks about the spirt and son and the father, only lawyery scones came to fret about that, which are the exact people Jesus Warned us about. He would have told the church trinity councils to throw away thier parchments and go help the poor

[Anonymous No.13178420]

>>13178335
Did the bishops at the First Council of Constantinople who wrote the doctrine of the Trinity commit heresy? The mysteries of the faith are doctrines humans could never have known unless revealed to them by God, not doctrines that are unknowable or even unknown. The Gospel is another holy mystery, as is the Church, the Virgin Birth, and the Resurrection. The holy mysteries are beliefs that humans cannot become aware of or comprehend by reason alone, not beliefs we can never comprehend. With the Holy Spirit these ideas can be understood. False understandings are entirely possible, but that doesn't mean it's simply impossible to understand a doctrine like that of the Trinity. Once may claim that the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed is comprehensible to both its writers and their readers, and do so without committing heresy.

[Anonymous No.13178454]

>>13178413
Jesus is the one who gave His Church the authority to settle matters of doctrine. The people who Jesus warned us about are wolves in sheep's clothing and the teachers of false doctrines. Nice wool.

[Anonymous No.13178458]

>>13178454
Your bible passages to justify this are so abstract and unconvincing. While the parts where Jesus said avoid the letter of the law over the spirt and avoid highfalutin officers of canon law and to care more about loving people are explicit

[Anonymous No.13178460]

>>13178454
I bet you think the Catholic Church is the oldest surviving church, embarrassing really

[Anonymous No.13178477]

>>13178458
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you aren't a Christian. You should set your own house in order before stepping foot in another's, though I don't think order is what your father wants in his house. I guess what I'm trying to say is you forgot to wipe your feet.

>>13178460
How much you want to bet?

[Anonymous No.13178493]

>>13172163
Whether he voluntarily or involuntarily gave up some of his infinte knowledge, how could be equal to God in that condition?

[Anonymous No.13178494]

>>13178493
Because He possessed two natures, one divine, one human.

[Anonymous No.13178567]

Can the trinity explained into Delueze-Guatari's conception of Body without Organ? Was Jesus a organ for fulfill(perform?) god's desire to be his son? Is trinity rhizomatic?

[Anonymous No.13178581]

>>13178128
Take out the holy spook and I agree with you

[Anonymous No.13178891]

The Trinity is at odds with the law of non-contradiction which most theologians argue god is bound by, Christians call it a "mystery" so they can sweep it up under the rug.

Faith is demonstrated by willingness to accept nonsense.

[Anonymous No.13178912]

>>13178891
>Faith is demonstrated by willingness to accept nonsense.
Yes, I’m sure you are are purely rational being in your thoughts and actions. Gtfo, Yudkowsky.

[Anonymous No.13178915]

>>13171457
>>13171482
>>13171490
>>13171555
what did she post?

[Anonymous No.13178933]

>>13178912
>realises something makes no sense
>believes it anyway and spins this as a virtue

stunning and brave

[Anonymous No.13178949]

>>13178933
I don’t “I realize it makes no sense,” rather I realize I don’t understand it. Do you believe only things you understand?

[Anonymous No.13178952]

>>13172212
== isn't "is", it's "evaluates to the same value as". === is "is". By claiming == is the correct comparison, you are postulating the existence of a metagod, who evaluates God.

[Anonymous No.13178954]

>>13178891
>Faith is demonstrated by willingness to accept nonsense

[Anonymous No.13178956]

>>13178912
All successful social groups profess a belief in nonsense. It's necessary to give people a stake in their membership. If they only stated a belief in correct things then it would be too easy for members to leave to another group, who would share those correct beliefs. Doctrine of the Trinity is like rightists believing CO2 is transparent to infrared, or leftists believing humans evolved from the neck down. The nonsense is the point.

[Anonymous No.13178961]

>>13178956
>If they only stated a belief in correct things
What do you believe are “correct things?”

[Anonymous No.13178965]

>>13178961
If A = B = C, then A = C

[Anonymous No.13178970]

>>13178949
>2+2 = 5
>"Actually it is 4"
>Anon you just don't understand it is actually 5, you would realise this if you understood that you don't understand the mystery

[Anonymous No.13178972]

>>13178954
>le atheist hatman

great argument

[Anonymous No.13178976]

>>13178970
Give me a non math example

[Anonymous No.13178978]

>>13178952
you dumbfuck, that was the point

[Anonymous No.13178980]

>>13178978
If you have a more powerful metagod then you don't need God. Trinity theory disproves Christianity.

[Anonymous No.13178986]

>>13178980
>Trinity theory disproves Christianity
Yikes

[Anonymous No.13179046]

>>13178952
are you stupid?

[Anonymous No.13179053]

>>13178986
>Jesus disproves Christianity
religion is wierd

[Anonymous No.13179054]

>>13179046
Who made the interpreter you're running God in, that calculates the value of God by ==? Why don't you just worship that entity directly?

[Anonymous No.13179058]

>>13179053
He doesn't, because you can just say God is the highest ranking, and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are his subordinates. That's a perfectly good interpretation of the text. Only reason it wasn't approved was because it misses out on the social proof aspect of shared belief in nonsense.

[Anonymous No.13179086]

>>13171148
i'm not a trinitarian.
there are more important things like for example that some bibles say there is no hell and speak of universal reconciliation.
the nicean creed just made more problems and took hundreds of years to kill off "other" views. which was a failure cos it couldn't kill off and couldn't even suppress eg: nag hamadi library.

[Anonymous No.13179101]

>>13178891
>>>/lit/thread/S13174156#p13175088
>Just read Hegel for expedient purposes alone. A Monad is not one in the Numerical sense, one identity is not contradicted by multiple hypostases, and said hypostases' mutual distinction is not only not formal but is properly actual precisely through the shared identity.

[Anonymous No.13179123]

>>13179086
lol where do you guys keep coming up with this garbage?

[Anonymous No.13179137]

>>13179123
you sound uneducated do your research.
i just cited a few early sects of christianity in the library. probably more christian and researched than you sound. i may add the tent maker website but doubt dumbtards will actually look into it and do research.

[Anonymous No.13179173]

>>13179137
Oh, no, I've heard of and read up on all the particulars of your bullshit before. I even wrote a paper on universal salvation in uni. It's just sometimes when someone lays out a whole load of this trash all at once, it's just impressive how much of it is there is, the sheer amount of it. It's honestly an accomplishment how you've managed to compound error upon error to the point where you have this wacky stack of heresy, simply because you got the basics wrong and don't have the spirit of truth to guide you. Even just finding enough lies to slap together into your post is an accomplishment. Amazing job, is all I'm saying. You've been busy. Got to make hay while the sun is still shining, huh?

[Anonymous No.13179965]

LMAOing @ all these brainlets that dont understand the Trinity. To get it, compare it to dairy. Cheese, ice cream and whipped cream are different concepts, but they all are milk's manifestations.

[Anonymous No.13180007]

>>13171281
>>13172163
Are you an orthodox christian by any chance?

[Anonymous No.13180033]

>>13172142
Okay. Even if they are polytheist, that means nothing. It’s a word.

[Anonymous No.13180058]

>>13178494
If you hold that Jesus is fully God and fully man, then he never gave up his infinite knowledge.

[Anonymous No.13180289]

>>13175933
Ok dipshit

[Anonymous No.13180326]

>>13179173
Take your meds, schizo, no one has any idea what the fuck you're talking about.