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/lit/ - Literature

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13161875 No.13161875 [Reply] [Original]

It's been funny to watch so many people argue about Guénon and let yourselves get into so many arguments about him without really understanding him. Guénon's works are largely just an indirect commentary on the works of Ibn Arabi and Adi Shankara, in a similar way to how Evola is largely just an indirect commentary on and a response to Guénon. You'll never fully understand what exactly Guénon means and why he writes all the stuff that he does unless you read at least few thousand pages of writing from both of these thinkers. It seems like the the vast majority of people who read Guénon don't so this which IMO is why so many people seem to become befuddled or angry after reading Guénon's writings and why there are so many ad hominem arguments thrown at him.

I laugh every time I see people write stuff like "w-well uh he never fully explained intellectual intuition" or "he never solidly proved his ideas using logic according to my degenerated and emasculated empiricism"; that's besides the point!, Guénon was not writing to convince people who didn't agree with him, he couldn't care less about those people. His writing is aimed at fellow autodidacts who already read a huge amount of esoteric/metaphysics and who will actually read much the eastern thinkers he references. When you read Ibn Arabi and Shankara they literally take you by the hand and walk you through all the stages of understanding of all the stuff that Guénon explains and mentions in passing; it immediately becomes apparent once you read enough of them why exactly Guénon wrote what he did, many of the ideas that people consider to be his unique idea actually already appear in the works of these two thinkers where they are explained in even more depth than Guénon's treatment of them. I see many people complain or have criticisms of Guénon that he never demonstrates this eastern 'divine intellect' etc or 'metaphysical realization', that's because it's only something that very bright and motivated people can understand if they have the willpower and power of comprehension required to read through large amounts of both Ibn Arabi and Shankara; two sages who evade comprehension by the intellectually-dogmatic and dull-minded!

>> No.13161899

It's been funny to watch so many people argue about Guénon and let yourselves get into so many arguments about him without really understanding him. Guénon's works are largely just an indirect commentary on the works of Ibn Arabi and Adi Shankara, in a similar way to how Evola is largely just an indirect commentary on and a response to Guénon. You'll never fully understand what exactly Guénon means and why he writes all the stuff that he does unless you read at least few thousand pages of writing from both of these thinkers. It seems like the the vast majority of people who read Guénon don't so this which IMO is why so many people seem to become befuddled or angry after reading Guénon's writings and why there are so many ad hominem arguments thrown at him.

I laugh every time I see people write stuff like "w-well uh he never fully explained intellectual intuition" or "he never solidly proved his ideas using logic according to my degenerated and emasculated empiricism"; that's besides the point!, Guénon was not writing to convince people who didn't agree with him, he couldn't care less about those people. His writing is aimed at fellow autodidacts who already read a huge amount of esoteric/metaphysics and who will actually read much the eastern thinkers he references. When you read Ibn Arabi and Shankara they literally take you by the hand and walk you through all the stages of understanding of all the stuff that Guénon explains and mentions in passing; it immediately becomes apparent once you read enough of them why exactly Guénon wrote what he did, many of the ideas that people consider to be his unique idea actually already appear in the works of these two thinkers where they are explained in even more depth than Guénon's treatment of them. I see many people complain or have criticisms of Guénon that he never demonstrates this eastern 'divine intellect' etc or 'metaphysical realization', that's because it's only something that very bright and motivated people can understand if they have the willpower and power of comprehension required to read through large amounts of both Ibn Arabi and Shankara; two sages who evade comprehension by the intellectually-dogmatic and dull-minded!

>> No.13161908

It's been funny to watch so many people argue about Guénon and let yourselves get into so many arguments about him without really understanding him. Guénon's works are largely just an indirect commentary on the works of Ibn Arabi and Adi Shankara, in a similar way to how Evola is largely just an indirect commentary on and a response to Guénon. You'll never fully understand what exactly Guénon means and why he writes all the stuff that he does unless you read at least few thousand pages of writing from both of these thinkers. It seems like the the vast majority of people who read Guénon don't so this which IMO is why so many people seem to become befuddled or angry after reading Guénon's writings and why there are so many ad hominem arguments thrown at him.

I laugh every time I see people write stuff like "w-well uh he never fully explained intellectual intuition" or "he never solidly proved his ideas using logic according to my degenerated and emasculated empiricism"; that's besides the point!, Guénon was not writing to convince people who didn't agree with him, he couldn't care less about those people. His writing is aimed at fellow autodidacts who already read a huge amount of esoteric/metaphysics and who will actually read much the eastern thinkers he references. When you read Ibn Arabi and Shankara they literally take you by the hand and walk you through all the stages of understanding of all the stuff that Guénon explains and mentions in passing; it immediately becomes apparent once you read enough of them why exactly Guénon wrote what he did, many of the ideas that people consider to be his unique idea actually already appear in the works of these two thinkers where they are explained in even more depth than Guénon's treatment of them. I see many people complain or have criticisms of Guénon that he never demonstrates this eastern 'divine intellect' etc or 'metaphysical realization', that's because it's only something that very bright and motivated people can understand if they have the willpower and power of comprehension required to read through large amounts of both Ibn Arabi and Shankara; two sages who evade comprehension by the intellectually-dogmatic and dull-minded!

>> No.13161914

>>13161875
Guénon is just an orientalist, he tries to turn his readers into traitors, using orientalist dialectics.

>> No.13161932

>>13161908
>When you read Ibn...
LOL imagine wanting to do that

>> No.13161979
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13161979

>>13161914
>Guénon is just an orientalist, he tries to turn his readers into traitors, using orientalist dialectics.

>> No.13161986

>>13161932
Ibn Arabi is one of the greatest thinkers of all time

>> No.13161988

>>13161979
t. guénon fanboy who ruined his life and now it's too late to go back to normal

>> No.13161994

>>13161986
>Ibn Arabi
I don't speak african, sorry.
*slaps your face*

>> No.13162006

Guenon a shit. That's all you need to know. OP is all you need to see to know Guenon is a waste of time.

>> No.13162020
File: 2.31 MB, 1134x820, 1554779677598.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13162020

>>13162006
the momentous butthurt that follows in his wake is proof of his exemplary and uncompromising exposition of the truth, only a fool would think the masses would take otherwise to the truth

>> No.13162024

>>13162020
Whatever you say kid. I'm sure the denizens of /lit/ will surely be swayed by epic butthurt

>> No.13162034

>>13162020
Imagine having this warm feeling of being so enlighted and so smart because you fell for some orientalist bullshit.

>> No.13162089

>>13162024
the proof is the pudding in the form of the responses that people feel compelled to post when they see him

>> No.13162097

>>13162034
It's not uniquely eastern, the same type of ideas appear in Neoplatonism, Hermeticism and some areas of Christian mysticism.

>> No.13162100

>>13162089
That sounds fucking disgusting
"tee hee proof in the pudding"
You fucking fatass, can't help but talk about food can you? I hope you choke to death you glutton scum

>> No.13162116

>>13162100
lol calm down

>> No.13162138

>>13162020
That gif would be a 10/10 if the tiger was a part of a merry-go-round

>> No.13162160

Hey OP, what're the best bigbrain writings on Ibn Arabi? Where do I start with him if I've already been studying this stuff for years?

>> No.13162208

>>13162160
His Fusas al-Hikam (The Bezels of Wisdom) is a major work that lays out a summary of his thoughts. It would probably be a good place to begin with. His also wrote a shorter summary of it called the Naqsh al-Fusus (The Imprint of the Bezels of Wisdom), you could read the Naqsh either before or after the Fusas to supplement but you'd still want to read the Fusas al-Hikam either way. The Meccan Illuminations is also an imporant multi-volume work of his which covers a lot of different subject. He has many smaller works which have been translated as well.

>> No.13162235 [DELETED] 

>>13162160
>>13162208
nice sapeposting, loser

>> No.13162256

>>13162208
Thank you I'll start with the Bezels

>> No.13162273

>>13162160
>>13162208
>>13162256
nice sameposting, loser

>> No.13162318
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13162318

>>13162273
'We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid' - Benjamin Franklin

>> No.13162333

>>13162318
Fake.
Keep playing with the Gimp, loser.

>> No.13162337

>>13161994
he was an Andalusian

>> No.13162348

>>13162337
>Andalusian
I don't speak african, sorry.
*slaps you again*

>> No.13162400

>>13162333
cope

>> No.13162416

>>13162400
*slaps you again for fun*

>> No.13162426

>>13162416
>teleports behind you
>decapitates you with my katana

>> No.13162451

>>13162426
Learn how to use the > sign first, retard.

>> No.13162452

It's been funny to watch so many people argue about Guénon and let yourselves get into so many arguments about him without really understanding him. Guénon's works are largely just an indirect commentary on the works of Ibn Arabi and Adi Shankara, in a similar way to how Evola is largely just an indirect commentary on and a response to Guénon. You'll never fully understand what exactly Guénon means and why he writes all the stuff that he does unless you read at least few thousand pages of writing from both of these thinkers. It seems like the the vast majority of people who read Guénon don't so this which IMO is why so many people seem to become befuddled or angry after reading Guénon's writings and why there are so many ad hominem arguments thrown at him.

I laugh every time I see people write stuff like "w-well uh he never fully explained intellectual intuition" or "he never solidly proved his ideas using logic according to my degenerated and emasculated empiricism"; that's besides the point!, Guénon was not writing to convince people who didn't agree with him, he couldn't care less about those people. His writing is aimed at fellow autodidacts who already read a huge amount of esoteric/metaphysics and who will actually read much the eastern thinkers he references. When you read Ibn Arabi and Shankara they literally take you by the hand and walk you through all the stages of understanding of all the stuff that Guénon explains and mentions in passing; it immediately becomes apparent once you read enough of them why exactly Guénon wrote what he did, many of the ideas that people consider to be his unique idea actually already appear in the works of these two thinkers where they are explained in even more depth than Guénon's treatment of them. I see many people complain or have criticisms of Guénon that he never demonstrates this eastern 'divine intellect' etc or 'metaphysical realization', that's because it's only something that very bright and motivated people can understand if they have the willpower and power of comprehension required to read through large amounts of both Ibn Arabi and Shankara; two sages who evade comprehension by the intellectually-dogmatic and dull-minded!

>> No.13162461

>>13162452
Aaaand another orientalist poop hits the ground.

>> No.13162466

>>13162337
Eu não falo africanhol, preto.
* bate de novo *

>> No.13162473

>>13161875
>which IMO is why so many people seem to become befuddled or angry after reading Guénon's writings and why there are so many ad hominem arguments thrown at him.
you actually think the posters trashing guénon have read him? kek

>> No.13162485

>>13162473
Imagine letting a carpet dealer come into your house.

>> No.13163096

>>13162485
>thinking in memes

>> No.13163159

>>13161875
I've read all of Shankara and Ibn Arabi and I can confirm what OP says is true

>> No.13163251

I dont know why Guenonfags are such hipsters. Aside from a few details Evola is far better and wrote far more.
If anything just use Guenon as an introduction to Evola.
But OP is somewhat right, these guys aren't philosophers or teachers nor did they try to be. They dont give a shit about convincing you with rationale. They are simply putting the meta-truths and metaphysics formed from perennial and ancient sources to paper, so that similar minded people have a comprehensive source without having to dig through mountains of spiritualist garbage to find the truth. Both Evola and Guenon cite multiple sources rapid fire throughout their works and its obvious that you are intended to read them yourself as well. The Traditionalist works are like a companion guide.
Sometimes. I think OP is being a bit of a hipster here, they arent super high iq big brained bois that only aristocraps of the soul can understand. Unless you try to read Hermetic Tradition without any prior knowledge, then you'll be lost as fuck

>> No.13163401
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13163401

>>13163251
> Evola is far better

>> No.13163430

>>13162485
nice cope

>> No.13163479

>>13163401
You're just proving my point that Guenonfags are insufferable brainlets.

>> No.13165738

>>13163479
cope

>> No.13165776

>>13163401
kek

>> No.13165779

>>13161914
Guenon shit all over orientalism in his works actually

>> No.13165783

>>13165779
Guénon is the epitome of orientalism.

>> No.13165790

>>13163096
t. loser who never punched any stranger for fun

>> No.13165813

>>13165779
>converting to islam
>shitting all over orientalism
LOL

>> No.13167210

>>13165813
those two are not mutually exclusive you brainlet

>> No.13167288

>>13161988
Guenon saved my life
>>13162006
wrong you absolute pseud

>> No.13167357

>>13165790
violence is wrong except in self-defense

>> No.13167369

>>13167210
islam is oriental you absolute retard

>> No.13167376

>>13167357
>violence
>fun
Are you this retarded?

>> No.13167585

>>13161979
Guénon was an orientalist, he used dialectics to turn retards into muslims.
1. he flattered them, he made them feel they were right and enlighted.
2. he managed to inflate their ego
3. he made them turn against their own people and families (your local tradition is dead, it only lives in Orient, embrace it)
4. some became traitors, some others understood and rejected Guénon's teachings as vicious bullshit.
Light marxism was just one of the many tools he used for point 1.
Guénon was just a filthy vicious carpet dealer.
Reading Guénon can be interesting, if the reader wants to study his manipulation tricks.