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13075200 No.13075200 [Reply] [Original]

>I just found out that most people don't accept Aristotle's four causes, electing to throw out formal and final cause altogether
holy moly no wonder the modern world is such a shitfest

what were the materialist brainlets even thinking?

>> No.13075216

They were thinking that the system doesn't really make much sense. The utility of the final cause is that it gives you a nifty way of distinguishing objects, but then you get into hairy questions of how that purpose is assigned, and whether every object actually has one.

Formal cause is literally just shape. I don't see how that's controversial.

>> No.13075226

>>13075200
>ya

>> No.13075234

>>13075200
and what is the form of that inside the cup, dear aristotle?

>> No.13075253

Yeah it's pretty dumb. We can't even define much of anything without alluding to or utilizing the language of purpose. British philosophy was a mistake.

>> No.13075330
File: 52 KB, 295x500, 108d2827b21bde5c5c382b50979b51e3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13075330

>>13075200
>tfw the Church dug its own grave as always
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condemnations_of_1210%E2%80%931277

>> No.13075350

>>13075330
I'm sure you have a good reason to believe this is why modernity ignores Aristotle.

>> No.13075357

>>13075350
I go to a Catholic university full of Thomists and one of them told me so.

>> No.13075371

>>13075357
Impeccable reasoning. For a minute I thought you was just talking shit. I feel like a fool now.

>> No.13075376

>>13075371
I cannot tell if you're being sarcastic. The professor that told me is obsessed with Aristotle and Aquinas. He's one of the world's leading phenomenological Thomists.

>> No.13075385

Modern-day Thomists are the boomers of philosophy. Brainlets whose little crania couldn't fit the philosophy of Kant, Hegel and the rationalists. They cling on to a philosophy that literally no one in academia has cared about for about 400 years. The only people who still care about Thomism besides them are crusty old bearded incels locked up in towers in the Vatican City.

>> No.13075389

>>13075376
Is your professor unironically Edward Feser?

>> No.13075396

>>13075385
And Gregory B. Sadler.

>> No.13075397

>>13075376
I couldn't possibly lay it on any thicker. The idea that modern people ignore Aristotle because a church they don't even respect did something before Aquinas was canonized is ridiculous on the face of it. The church didn't even care what the church did.

>> No.13075419

>>13075397
I cannot tell if you're being sarcastic.

>> No.13075444

>>13075419
He’s saying that the Church has nothing to do with why modern philosophy depts or the social elite ignore Aristotelian metaphysics and epistemology. That you were told something self aggrandizing by a Cath academic has no bearing on the actual reason for the death of rationalism

>> No.13075454

>>13075444
I actually cannot tell if you're being sarcastic.

>> No.13075466

99.99% of people don't know what the fuck Aristotle's four causes are, I think that's more relevant than an 800 year-old condemnation by Catholic bishops

>> No.13075628

>>13075200
Try doing biology without final causes...

It's impossible.

>> No.13075671

>>13075466
Is that sarcasm?

>> No.13075686

>>13075385
>people in the vatican like thomas aquinas

good joke anon

>> No.13075696
File: 20 KB, 198x282, schop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13075696

>ctrl f "Schopenhauer" and "principle of sufficient reason"
>0 results
What were the neo-Thomists thinking?

>> No.13075922

>>13075454
Then you have autism

>> No.13076942

>>13075200
>>13075330

>original sin not in the old testament
>atonement through jesus not in the old testament
>original sin not in the new testament
>atonement through jesus not in the new testament
>therefore jesus died for our sins

The only thing greater than the Theological abomination of the Church is its Logical abomination. The likes of Nietzsche have less contempt for Jesus.

>> No.13077016

>>13076942
What? Is Eve eating the apple not original sin?

>> No.13077023

-steps in-
<unsheathes katana>


hijacking this thread to have an honest to God, anonymous book review done in an honest God honesty that is about philosophy.
A very great read for any person out there interested in philosophy. Be they from the highest φιλόσοφος, or to the young and the homeless. This book is the entry gate to one of the most important philosophical history series that will shake decades of philosophy.
My reasononing will be at that shortly.

First to begin, We will look at it's exterior's knowledge. We take notice of the Author's personhood primarily and prumptly because we take to notice that the man is a Catholic Jesuit. and that by his nature it is also a work done in religous reasoning. So this work will also inflict impact upon other religous work.
It will require a high degree of knowledge upon glances but upon further inspection its disagreences are noted with everytime so it only remains partially deep, by the number of disagreeing nature it does not go to deep only to explain a short clammoring for people with higher degrees. So in some degrees it is extremely steep of a hijacking this thread to have an honest to God, anonymous book review done in an honest God honesty that is about philosophy.
A very great read for any person out there interested in philosophy. Be they from the highest φιλόσοφος, or to the young and the homeless. This book is the entry gate to one of the most important philosophical history series that will shake decades of philosophy.
My reasononing will be at that shortly.

First to begin, We will look at it's exterior's knowledge. We take notice of the Author's personhood primarily and prumptly because we take to notice that the man is a Catholic Jesuit. and that by his nature it is also a work done in religous reasoning. So this work will also inflict impact upon other religous work.
It will require a high degree of knowledge upon glances but upon further inspection its disagreences are noted with everytime so it only remains partially deep, by the number of disagreeing nature it does not go to deep only to explain a short clammoring for people with higher degrees. So in some degrees it is extremely steep of a learning curve to read
border line borderline pyschopath. Multi line multi time paradime paradox photograph orthodime orthodox party time snorlax pizza time pizza line paragraph.

Spaghetti smells runny red roses rollo the floor hello low toes the floor funny shmllz noses smelly foots and fungus up my nose into a paradoxhijacking this thread to have an honest to God, anonymous book review done in an honest God honesty that is about philosophy.
A very great read for any person out there interested in philosophy. Be they from the highest φιλόσοφος, or to the young and the homeless. This book is the entry gate to one of the

>> No.13077031

>>13077016

Possibly, but original sin as in its inheritance, that all men are born sinners, is in neither Testament.

>> No.13077037

>>13077023
Can't believe that was all that was necessary for me to become a φιλόσοφος

>> No.13077046

>>13077016
Reminder that Eve did nothing wrong and the serpent was right.

>> No.13077047
File: 51 KB, 323x499, 61dGq06foaL._SX321_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077047

>>13077037
where is butterfly

>> No.13077049

>>13077031
what the fuck do you think adam is if not an allegory for man in general? gen 3:15, gen 3:22, gen 6:12
many such cases!

>> No.13077056
File: 166 KB, 549x500, squaringthecircle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077056

>>13077049
adam was literally the first person as well as homologous.
pic related the greek prediction of Christ.

>> No.13077065

>>13077056
you dont believe in evolution?

>> No.13077068

>>13077049

Yes? This would further prove my point, since Adam was not inherently sinful, but sinned of his own accord.

>> No.13077073

>>13077068
and since adam was dislocated from the garden of eden being born means that it is inevitable you will sin, since we no longer exist in a context where the only sin is to eat the do not eat fruit. we dont choose to have knowledge anymore.

>> No.13077076

>>13076942
>>13077031
>>13077068
>im smarter than augustine

>> No.13077090

>>13077065
I’m not him but the two are not mutually exclusive ideas. Evolution would say there was originally a first man with the set of mutations that we now label as homo sapien.

>> No.13077094

>>13077076

>being right on a single topic where anoter guy is wrong makes me smarter than him

This meme assumption has to stop. I know not all algebraic operations can be repeated an infinite amount of times and yield the intuitive generalozition from the finite case, does that make me smarter than Euler and Lagrange ?

>> No.13077099

>>13077094
>know not all algebraic operations can be repeated an infinite amount of times and yield the intuitive generalozition from the finite case, does that make me smarter than Euler and Lagrange ?
yes u arrogant prick

>> No.13077100
File: 110 KB, 900x658, God-the-Father-900.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077100

>>13077065
i believe in both you hellish child no go obey God and listen to your daddy. You are like adam and you are to BEHAVE him. LISTEN TO MOMMY butterfly.

>> No.13077104

>>13077073

I don't even argue against it being inevitable, though I doubt it, I argue against it being inborn, which is contrary to both Testaments.

>>13077076

Doctrine in general explicitly contradicts both Testaments, particularly the New one. It is literally Paulian, not Christian.

>> No.13077110
File: 85 KB, 640x540, Smugwojaktipsfedora.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077110

>>13077104
ugh

>> No.13077114
File: 80 KB, 720x626, 622c72427e6488bd9fc8e8769cdd8bf7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077114

>>13075376
>>13075357

>> No.13077117
File: 195 KB, 1356x1164, woke christians.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077117

>>13077104
>Paul corrupted Christianity
If only you knew the truth

>> No.13077121

>>13077090
>Evolution would say there was originally a first man
No it wouldn't

>> No.13077125

>>13077114
this picture is actually genius

nice

>> No.13077128

>>13077121
yes a first man needs a name and his name was adam. How can there be two firsts?

>> No.13077136
File: 206 KB, 293x285, rich1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077136

>>13077114

>> No.13077164

>>13077110
>>13077117

That inferring original sin and atonement from each other, even though neither are in either Testament, is intellectually disgraceful, is bad enough. But ascribing the Teleology of "sacrificial lamb" to Jesus is an abomination. It is integral to the Gospels that he transgressed Judaism and the "Law", which his detractors then heaped onto him in cruelly ironic ways, prominently "King of the Jews", precisely because he did NOT fulfill that role.

>> No.13077182
File: 28 KB, 300x353, CrucifixionVanDyckLouvre.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077182

>>13077164
Retard

Abraham and Isaac
is like man and Jesus.
He fulfills the killing sacrifice of Isaac, that is when God sworn his own son instead.
Remember the lambs never fulfilled the sacrifice they only attained for partial sin. Hence why Jesus forgives all the sin by the power of Sin.


become Catholic.

>> No.13077193

>>13077128
Evolution deals with populations and not individuals

>> No.13077203

>>13077182

Mixing and matching Testaments is confusing enough without your poor grammar. By all means, what else can I infer? That Jesus gave Satan the keys to his Kingdom? Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 16:23, in fact, it very much explains Catholic abomination.

>> No.13077215

>>13077104
sin is knowingly committing evil.
a rock that falls on you didnt sin because it has no capacity for knowledge.
once you eat the fruit and doom your offspring to know they are born sinners.

>> No.13077225

>>13077117

>Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

>Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

As balanced as Kingdom Come and the Roman Empire.

>> No.13077232

>>13077215

And you call Mormonism fan fiction...

>> No.13077238

>>13077193
obviously but communities require names thus implying names.
Adam was named first through God and even heard God name Eve.

Each community has an Adam and Eve.

>> No.13077254
File: 15 KB, 435x435, 1923820._UY435_SS435_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13077254

>>13077232
it is. it's literally started by ex-zoroastrians that discovered the bloom of Christianity. Considered to be a lost brother tribe of Isreal at one point. Who had a similar religion Judaism, which is even seen in the book of Job.

>> No.13077269

>>13077254

And still less contrary to the words of Jesus than original sin and atonement.

>> No.13077444

>>13077203

Mixing and matching Scripture is also one of the meanings of adultery.

>> No.13077459

>>13077269
>And still less contrary to the words of Jesus than original sin and atonement.

You are mistaken. The book of Job is an older part of the bible close to the age of Genesis. It just has zoroastrian elements.
please do research.

What this means is that Christianity is a revelation of God him self, a new covenant.

>> No.13077462

>>13077099
wtf I love you now.

>> No.13077463

>>13077459
Every prophet is a new revelation from God :3

>> No.13077474

>>13077203
Its basic exegesis, good Rabbi.

>> No.13077477

>>13077463
Not exactly it is second hand.

>> No.13077624

>>13077477
That is the case, yes. But typically they will bring with them some sort of cultural change/revelations from God himself. A prophet is a cultural phenomenon which will not go away with the increase of technology. :3

>> No.13077664

>>13077624
Christ is first hand

>> No.13078143

>>13077125
It’s a reddit-tier meta joke and you ought to go back there

>> No.13078690

>>13075454
If you cannot tell, then it is.

>> No.13080208

>>13075200
More philosophers like Fessie Fess?

>> No.13080236

How does Feser explain the "ground" of Aristotle's conceptions? Are they cognitive/transcendental in a Kantian way, are they just heuristic/useful ("the best formulation of the concept of cause anyone's yet come up with, but still only linguistic"), or does he go full-blown Christian/Thomist and say they are the actual ontological categories of reality itself, mirrored in/by our minds?

If any of the above, where does he do this?

>> No.13081389

>>13080236
I would guess the latter since he's Catholic.

>> No.13083238

>>13075234
"I think it you will find that the emptiness is in your
BALLS, plato."
"Diogenes, get off your knees."

>> No.13083276

>>13075200
He only likes Aristotelian philosophy because it could let him justify the death penalty and other right-wing power fantasies. A cancer on Catholicism.

>> No.13083601

>>13083276
I think you can remove "a" and "on" from your last sentence but otherwise yeah spot on.

>> No.13083905

>>13083276
What the hell is a right wing power fantasy and why would supporting the death penalty be one?

>> No.13083925

>materialists
>thinking

>> No.13083935

>>13083276
>death penalty
>right-wing power fantasy
please elaborate

>> No.13083939

>>13075200
Aristotle>>>>>>>Plato
Prove me wrong

>> No.13083959

>>13075628
but that’s wrong you fucking retard

>> No.13083980

>>13075200
Hard agree

>> No.13084490

>>13083276
extremely low iq post, sounds like you watched the school of life video on aristotle