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/lit/ - Literature


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File: 60 KB, 496x744, faulkner-13062-portrait-medium (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13025736 No.13025736 [Reply] [Original]

Why were the greatest American writers of the 20th century, Fitzgerald, Faulkner and Hemingway, all without degrees?

Also, list writers without degrees.

>> No.13025737
File: 64 KB, 259x400, delillo_NYT_1998.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13025737

>>13025736
Has a communications degree, which doesn't really count.

>> No.13025742

Eliot and Pound both had degrees, so you're wrong.

>> No.13025772

>>13025742
Those were poets, so they're not really of the same category. If I just said American novelists, what then?

>> No.13025873
File: 9 KB, 230x230, 31nT97KMBjL._US230_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13025873

No degree.

>> No.13025907
File: 37 KB, 193x266, 235.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13025907

Graduated from Cornell with a B.A. in English. Wrong again.

>> No.13025946

>>13025737
White Noise is a crap novel but it's also the "de facto" campus novel, despite every other MFA writer/instructor having more experience of and living the majority of their life on a campus.

>> No.13025973

>>13025736
You don't need a degree to be a great writer.

>> No.13025979

>>13025742
They are memes. not great writers.

>> No.13026397
File: 58 KB, 752x892, Ralph_Ellison_photo_portrait_seated.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13026397

No degree.

>> No.13026409
File: 109 KB, 800x1011, 800px-Richard_Wright.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13026409

No degree

>> No.13026416

>>13026397
>>13026409
>>13026409
and it shows

>> No.13026452
File: 131 KB, 800x798, 800px-James_Baldwin_37_Allan_Warren_(cropped).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13026452

No degree

>> No.13026461

>>13026416
And it doesn't show for McCarthy?

>> No.13026462

>>13025736
>Why were the greatest American writers of the 20th century, Fitzgerald, Faulkner and Hemingway, all without degrees?
>20th century American literature
It's no coincidence that this movement has at its heart the boneheaded and barely literate. Their prose can barely be called such - it has been chopped down to just the bare bones necessary to convey thought. It is without substance or beauty, but it served to finally make distinctive the American literary character from that of the European, so the campuses of the USA have latched on to it with the desperate strength of a drowning man to a bit of wormwood eaten driftwood. Believe me, outside of your country, Fitzgerald, Faulkner and Hemingway are not studied widely, and with good reason.

>> No.13026470

Saramago

>> No.13026475

>>13026461
No, Blood Meridian was written under the influence of a deity. Absolutely divine prose and a true work of art, no race-bait like these bozos.

>> No.13026480
File: 69 KB, 600x480, faulkner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13026480

>>13026462
>faulkner is not studied widely
Didn't Faulkner influence literally every postwar French writer? If I remember right, Sartre drooled over The Sound and The Fury when most of America treated Faulkner as a minor backwoods curiosity at best. Plus Faulkner gave Marquez and Cruz the spark to start the Latin American boom. I can't speak to the other two, but Faulkner's astoundingly influential, probably more so abroad than at home

>> No.13026482
File: 368 KB, 514x640, Patrick_Modiano_6_dec_2014_-_22.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13026482

No degree, won Nobel

>> No.13026502
File: 6 KB, 200x179, images (22).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13026502

Nobel, no degree

>> No.13026505

>>13026480
>Cruz
Literally who?
>the spark to start the Latin American boom
No, he gave Juan Rulfo the spark to influence the LA boom's authors.

>> No.13026506

>>13026462
Perhaps I couldn't even have wanted more than that, couldn't have accepted less, who even at nineteen must have known that living is one constant and perpetual instant when the arras-veil before what-is-to-be hangs docile and even glad to the lightest naked thrust if we had dared, were brave enough (not wise enough: no wisdom needed here) to make the rending gash. Or perhaps it is no lack of courage either: not cowardice which will not face that sickness somewhere at the prime foundation of this factual scheme from which the prisoner soul, miasmal-distillant, wroils ever upward sunward, tugs its tenuous prisoner arteries and veins and prisoning in its turn that spark, that dream which, as the globy and complete instant o f its freedom mirrors and repeats (repeats? creates,reduces to a fragile evanescent iridescent sphere) all o f space and time and massy earth, relicts the seething and anonymous miasmal mass which in all the years of time has taught itself no boon o f death but only how to recreate, renew; and dies, is gone, vanished: nothing-but is that true wisdom which can comprehend that there is a might-have-been which is more true than truth, from which the dreamer, waking, says not 'Did I but dream?'but rather says, indicts high heaven's very self with: 'Why did I wake since waking I shall never sleep again?'

>> No.13026519

>>13026462
>Nobel
>No international respect

If you say so

>> No.13027255

>>13026462
>bong talking about “latching”
Literally spent the past century pretending an American was British and that genre fiction is real literature.

>> No.13027603

>>13027255
Bong? Genre fiction?

>> No.13027621
File: 125 KB, 734x1024, 734px-Carsonmccullers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13027621

No degree

>> No.13027630

When has instituted art ever been good? Did Melville, Twain, Dante, Homer, or Shakespeare have degrees. Dostoevsky went to a Russian university in the 1800's lol. Salinger also didnt have a degree. The system shrinks minds, which is why contemporary literature is so horrible. Thinking like a normie and telling people what they want to hear will make you money (Jordan Peterson), but won't produce great work.

>> No.13027646

>>13026462
>European literature
Reminder that a barely literate mick wrote your continent’s magnum opus. Remember your place

>> No.13027659

>>13027646
Good to hear that Dante is Irish. Or did you mean Proust? Very interesting.....Ulysses is not our magnum opus bud.

>> No.13027662

>>13027646
?

>> No.13027692

>>13027630
>Dostoevsky went to a Russian university in the 1800's lol
For a degree in mathematics if I recall correctly.
> The system shrinks minds,
This is correct and also applies to other arts, like film.

>> No.13027709
File: 13 KB, 300x300, leo-tolstoyjpg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13027709

Drop out

>> No.13027720

>>13026480

You do remember correctly. Sartre considered TSATF the best novel of the 1930s. Toni Morrison was also influenced by the Faulk.

>> No.13027728

>>13027720
It was 1929 though.

>> No.13027747

>>13027659
>our
>taking credit for two people of different nationalities
Eurocringe

>> No.13027756

>>13026480
Yeah the French love Faulkner. The other anon is baiting or retarded. The only one he has a case for is Fitzgerald and even then not being known abroad is not really a shame.

>> No.13027784

>>13027728

It was translated into French in 1937.

>> No.13027786

>>13027630
Dosto was fairly well-educated for his time, Shakespeare attended gammar school though he could not graduate because his father went bankrupt. Dante was notoriously educated in the letters and sciences of his day.

Also you've provided examples of great writer without degrees, to have a case you should compare them in quantity and importance to writers who had a degree. Then you'd have to explain why you conflate "writers with a degree" with "instituted art". You can be college-educated and direct most of your writing in anger at the institutions.

However poorly argued, though, I agree with your general point. You needn't a degree to be a great writer, only some form of education in verbal expression and observation, which can come by in a variety of non-institutional ways.

>> No.13027805
File: 20 KB, 373x241, Harold-pinter-atp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13027805

British Nobel laureate who didn't even go to post secondary school.

>> No.13027830
File: 56 KB, 695x600, Elfriede_jelinek_2004_small.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13027830

Nobel laureate who dropped out from school from anxiety.

>> No.13027887
File: 10 KB, 220x241, Wallace_Stevens.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13027887

Just had a law degree, which isn't literary. A businessman who wrote poetry.

>> No.13027934
File: 173 KB, 768x1024, Kertész_Imre_cropped.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13027934

>>13027887
Holocaust surviving Nobel laureate with no post secondary education.

>> No.13027966
File: 385 KB, 534x800, Günter_Grass_auf_dem_Blauen_Sofa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13027966

>>13027934
This guy could have ended up killing him. I don't think Grass has a degree either.

>> No.13027978

>>13027887
he graduated from Harvard in three years and then went to NYU Law. While at Harvard he studied English and Philosophy pretty much exclusively. Not quite "didn't have a degree."

>> No.13027988

>>13027720
>. Toni Morrison was also influenced by the Faulk.
as if that means anything

>> No.13027998

>>13027978
The Harvard thing was non degree.

>> No.13028004

>>13027988
What do you think it doesn't mean?

>> No.13028013

>>13028004
she's not one of the greats. her being influenced by Faulkner means nothing.

>> No.13028036

>>13027830
>Elfriede_jelinek
Why is it that every modern female writer is a Feminist?
Don't they realise the greatest female writer (Emily Bronte) was a Christian?
Why can't women write about other things rather than female rights?
Even the male writers who write on and on about masculinity hardly dwell on the politics of masculinity. It's mostly spoken for.
Why would Kafka feel the need to explain the root cause of his characters?
The whole point of a good story is that you discover what the character is like and their aims are as it moves along.
I find it funny that feminists hate Ayn Rand because most all of these feminist novel are: Character is "feminist ideology", villain is "anti-feminist ideology".
Snooze.

>> No.13028051

>>13026462
The British had to completely overwrite their secondary literature system about 3 years ago to teach their own authors exclusively because schools were teaching too much Steinbeck and Fitzgerald and British authors were becoming obscure.

>> No.13028066

>>13025736
>Why were the greatest American writers of the 20th century, Fitzgerald, Faulkner and Hemingway, all without degrees?
American """""""education""""""""

>> No.13028168
File: 14 KB, 220x279, 220px-Joshua_Cohen_BBF_2010_Shankbone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028168

Wiki doesn't say he graduated. Also, no MFA

>> No.13028176

>>13028066
As opposed to British education? Harvard not snooty enough for you?

>> No.13028189

>>13025736
>Also, list writers without degrees.
pretty much everyone before 1900

>> No.13028211
File: 122 KB, 768x1024, 768px-Ward_just_8895.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028211

This guy had been the finalist for a few awards. No degree

>> No.13028236
File: 12 KB, 183x240, 69133.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028236

No reference to graduating from college in her bio. Also once Salman Rushdie's wife. Pulitzer finalist.

>> No.13028279
File: 515 KB, 600x800, Russell_banks_2011.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028279

Him

>> No.13028293
File: 21 KB, 220x330, 220px-Robert_stone_2010.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028293

Yo

>> No.13028345
File: 32 KB, 336x496, Donald_Barthelme_(author).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028345

>> No.13028514

Which great authors (or artists in general) had math degrees? Not just America

>> No.13028533

>tfw fellfor college meme
>fell for stem meme

I graduate in teo weeks. I amso unfulfilled. I feel like i shafted myself out of an education. I am never going to work in stem

>> No.13028616

>>13028533
I am a failed CFP. I have one over you.

>> No.13028677
File: 15 KB, 292x500, Jorge_Luis_Borges.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028677

No post secondary degree.

>> No.13028691
File: 229 KB, 620x765, Machado_de_Assis_1904.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028691

This guy

>> No.13028697

>>13025907
>B.A. in English

lol nice "degree"

>> No.13028705
File: 142 KB, 800x956, 800px-Hermann_Hesse_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028705

Just high school.

>> No.13028716
File: 17 KB, 225x295, Knut_Hamsun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028716

Knut

>> No.13028725
File: 45 KB, 453x600, Camilo_José_Cela_Madrid_1996.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028725

The censor who was censored.

>> No.13028732

>>13025907
I could have sworn he majored in some kind of Engineering

>> No.13028735
File: 40 KB, 280x396, John_Steinbeck_1962.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028735

Stanford dropout. Didn't have a tech company.

>> No.13028741
File: 6 KB, 220x293, 220px-ONeill-Eugene-LOC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028741

Squandered Princeton education.

>> No.13028748
File: 76 KB, 773x1024, 773px-Henrik_Ibsen_by_Gustav_Borgen_NFB-19775.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028748

Didn't pass entrance exams. The equivalent of shitting up the SATs.

>> No.13028764
File: 104 KB, 800x988, 800px-AugustStrindberg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028764

Dropout

>> No.13028774
File: 194 KB, 773x1024, Rabindranath_Tagore_unknown_location.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028774

UCL dropout

>> No.13028780

>>13026462
>Unironically calling Fitzgerald barebones and without beauty

>> No.13028783
File: 516 KB, 506x748, Joseph_Conrad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028783

Just a sailor.

>> No.13028792
File: 10 KB, 244x300, 66354-004-4FF11FAB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028792

Hopscotch

>> No.13028800
File: 10 KB, 186x252, August_wilson.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028800

Never became a high school upperclassman.

>> No.13028814
File: 224 KB, 728x1024, Bernard-Shaw-ILN-1911-original.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028814

The 29 year old virgin.

>> No.13028922

>>13027786
It's a 4chan post not an essay.

>> No.13028932

>>13028036
It's kind of pathetic isn't it. Woman feel compelled to justify their equality to the point where it can't really be taken seriously even by themselves. Excuse after excuse and it only ends up being a justification to the self

>> No.13028934

>>13028732
He did, and then he flunked out because STEM isn't for brainlets

>> No.13028981
File: 99 KB, 297x563, Szymborska_2011_(1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13028981

Polish Nobel winning dropout.

>> No.13028989

>>13028922
Fuck off, dumbass.

>> No.13029019
File: 92 KB, 768x1024, Nadine_Gordimer_01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029019

I never met a nice South African.

>> No.13029025

>>13028932
Shut your mouth, Elfriede Jelinek translated Gravity's Rainbow.

>> No.13029038
File: 799 KB, 644x888, Octavio_Paz_-_1988_Malmö.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029038

Though he did get a Guggenheim fellowship.

>> No.13029047
File: 145 KB, 730x1023, 730px-Joseph_Brodsky_1988.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029047

His only degrees were honorary.

>> No.13029054
File: 153 KB, 715x1023, Claude_Simon_1967.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029054

Damn, there are a lot of Nobel laureates who are dropouts.

>> No.13029061
File: 17 KB, 232x325, seifert-13361-content-portrait-mobile-tiny.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029061

Never had postsecondary education.

>> No.13029068
File: 140 KB, 427x640, Gabriel_Garcia_Marquez.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029068

Law school dropout.

>> No.13029088
File: 14 KB, 232x325, boll-13237-content-portrait-mobile-tiny.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029088

Being in the Wehrmacht interrupted his studies.

>> No.13029096
File: 10 KB, 220x279, Pablo_Neruda_1963.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029096

Wrote poems rather than studying.

>> No.13029116
File: 21 KB, 220x311, 220px-Gabriela_Mistral_1945.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029116

Not educated past age 11

>> No.13029135
File: 56 KB, 521x651, Federico_García_Lorca._Huerta_de_San_Vicente,_Granada.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029135

This is what happens when you have friends on both sides of the Spanish Civil War.

>> No.13029161
File: 150 KB, 800x1003, 800px-Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn_1974crop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029161

>>13028514
This guy studied math in college.

>> No.13029184
File: 8 KB, 300x300, isaac-bashevis-singer-9484987-1-402.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029184

Rabbi school dropout

>> No.13029194
File: 16 KB, 220x318, Eugenio_Montale.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029194

Didn't complete secondary school.

>> No.13029208
File: 111 KB, 1200x675, edgar-allan-poe---full-episode.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029208

I believe he dropped out of the University of Virginia after 6 months.

>> No.13029215

>>13025979
>t. tranny

>> No.13029216
File: 550 KB, 1128x1440, 1_sOyQzgINwMNTZggEqWI6kQ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029216

Did Whitman finish high school? Anyone know?

>> No.13029219

>>13027621
Still went to school

>> No.13029223
File: 24 KB, 453x427, robert-browning-julia-margaret-cameron-english-18151879-museum-of-fine-arts-boston-1371173479_org.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029223

Fascinating that Poe, Whitman, and Browning, three of the greatest 19th century poets, never completed a degree.

>> No.13029234
File: 38 KB, 350x350, shakespeare.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029234

>inb4 he didn't write his plays

>> No.13029242
File: 36 KB, 329x499, 51Fai1U9OPL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029242

>>13029215
Trans people are the future of literature.

>> No.13029248
File: 16 KB, 320x298, Robert-Frost-320x298.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029248

Did he or did he not take the road less taken for a poet, I wonder.

>> No.13029270

>>13026505
Came to say this. Rulfo was the one that started it, not marquez

>> No.13029372
File: 5 KB, 288x175, download (47).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029372

Carpentier dropped out of school to support his family.

>> No.13029387
File: 75 KB, 213x258, Henry_Fielding.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029387

This motherfucker.

>> No.13029400
File: 94 KB, 800x971, 800px-Samuel_Richardson_by_Joseph_Highmore.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029400

The guy who wrote a longass book.

>> No.13029406
File: 101 KB, 700x1023, 700px-Dickens_Gurney_head.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029406

But of course.

>> No.13029431
File: 73 KB, 404x648, Picture_of_Anthony_Trollope.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029431

Trollope

>> No.13029440

>>13028732
He originally studied engineer physics, I think for only a few months to 1 academic year, then he dropped out to join the Navy. After his military service he went back to school and studied English.

>> No.13029711
File: 89 KB, 799x746, 800px-Dave_Eggers_(11483).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13029711

Never knew he dropped out.

>> No.13029732

>>13025946
>my novel is *not* a campus novel
funny that I remember him saying exactly this somewhere. this is also independent of your likely shitty reading of white noise

>> No.13029747

I have a degree and anything I produce will be crap.

>> No.13029784

>>13029747
MFA?

>> No.13029826

>>13028922
It would be way too short even for an highschool essay, you'd know that if you weren't a dropout like all writers itt.

>> No.13030173
File: 112 KB, 570x712, 15-ta-nehisi-coates-encounter.w570.h712.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13030173

>> No.13030299

>>13026462
Lmao. What Faulkner have you read? You probably read 1 short story and now have an opinion. Calling Faulkner barebones is laughable. The complexity of his imagery is as profound as anybody's. Who are you even comparing the Americans to? Joyce? Proust? Tolstoyevsky?

>> No.13030325

>>13030299
At least Whitman is the best poet born since 1800.

>> No.13030345
File: 76 KB, 215x321, Marcel_Proust_1900-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13030345

Lived in his parent's basement.

>> No.13030350

>>13030173
And it shows

>> No.13030364

>>13025946
>white noise
>campus novel
i read white noise when i was 14

>> No.13030368

>>13030345
Marcel had a comfy aristocrat life.

>> No.13030426

>>13030364
Good for you?

>> No.13030431

>>13030350
STFU, you just hate black people. You're the same twat shitting on Ellison.

>> No.13030433

>>13030368
Still a basement dweller.

>> No.13030566

>>13030433
Basement dwelling is aristocratic.

>> No.13031164

>>13030566
Is that so?

>> No.13031223

>>13025736
Aren’t half of Fitzgerald’s books about him going to an Ivy League school? Did he just drop out or something?

>> No.13031239

>>13029440
>No son of mine's gonna be a flunky burnout THAT'S IT you're joining the service!

>> No.13031251
File: 21 KB, 320x499, 41ZAF2CAY4L._SX318_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13031251

>>13025946
*blocks ur path*

>> No.13031254

>>13025736
Cheever and Vidal, too.

>> No.13031265

No frendolis, you won't make it without studying. Now obey your daddies and go study today's lesson

>> No.13031417

>>13031223
Yeah.

>> No.13031454

>>13031251
i read like 30 pages and dropped that. zany frat boy adventures for teenagers

>> No.13031510

>>13028783
And Ryo from ShenMue is still looking for him.

>> No.13031575

>>13031254
Never knew that. Would have guessed both were Ivy league.