Schopenhauer on nationalism

[Anonymous No.12978381]

Do you agree with this statement?
>The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen.
Discuss.

[Anonymous No.12978430]

Schopenhuars philosophy is actually surprisingly apolitical. Something he was actually proud of. When he was asked about it he said he deals with eternity and not politics. But he did have a politics and was against democracy saying that he preferred limited government and a king rather than being under the will of his fellow rats

As someone who has fumbled around with pessimism i came to the conclusion when applied to politics it basically turns into "doesnt matter who you vote for, you will suffer in all worlds"

[Anonymous No.12978453]

>>12978381
Is it also cheap to be proud of one's family members, friends, etc?

[Anonymous No.12978467]

>>12978453
yes

[Anonymous No.12978472]

>>12978381
I don't agree completely.
If you contribute to the success of your country in any way, part of this success can be considered yours. And you can be proud of your own achievements. Thus, you can be proud of your country.

[Anonymous No.12978531]

>>12978453
>>12978467
No, you‘re falling into a linguistic trap.

[Anonymous No.12978562]

“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs...thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”
— Arthur Schopenhauer


He was also alive during the american civil war and supported the blacks rising out of their suffering.

The only thing that makes him a bit politically incorrect by todays standards is his commentary on women.

Incels would love this guy if they ever read a book

[Anonymous No.12978796]

>>12978562
>The only thing that makes him a bit politically incorrect by todays standards is his commentary on women.

ahem

>it is absurd to want to concede to them a share in the government or administration of any country. Originally amalgamated and one with their state, their religion is by no means the main issue here, but rather merely the bond that holds them together, the point de ralliement [rallying-point], and the banner whereby they recognize one another. This is also seen in the fact that even the converted Jew who has been baptized does not by any means bring upon himself the hatred and loathing of all the rest [of the Jews], as do all other apostates. On the contrary, he continues as a rule to be their friend and companion and to regard them as his true countrymen, naturally with a few orthodox exceptions. … Accordingly, it is an extremely superficial and false view to regard the Jews merely as a religious sect. But if, in order to countenance this error, Judaism is described by an expression borrowed from the Christian Church as “Jewish Confession,” then this is a fundamentally false expression which is deliberately calculated to mislead and should not be allowed at all. On the contrary, “Jewish Nation” is the correct expression. The Jews have absolutely no confession; monotheism is part of their nationality and political constitution and is with them a matter of course. (schopenhauer, parerga and paralipomena vol 2, on jurisprudence and politics)

he also created an endowment for relatives of prussian soldiers who died during 1848 uprisings. he thought the "nationalist" revolutionaries had been entirely left-hegelian.

his antidemocratic motto: better to be ruled by a lion than by fellow rats.

OP's quote is just common politeness when dealing with individuals. he didnt disagree with Kant that one can and should judge populations in aggregate.

[Anonymous No.12978857]

>>12978796
I don't think that's politically incorrect. It's the official position of the state of Israel.

[Anonymous No.12978867]

>>12978857
He's not talking about Israel he's talking about Jews in general. He's saying they act like a tribe even when 'secular' and aren't really part of the country they live in

[Anonymous No.12979000]

What exactly is wrong with being proud of belonging to a nation which successfully maintains it's sovereignty, protects it's borders, keeps it's citizens safe, creates wonders of technology and culture, again?
And why put your cool attitude towards nationalism in such closeminded, binary terms?
>If you have national pride, YOU'RE A WORTHLESS FAGGOT AND YOUR MOTHER FUCKED A DONKEY
Very intellectual. You know, somehow, just somehow, I know that men far greater than Schopenhauer felt very passionate about their compatriots, and their existence alone renders that statement as stupid.

[Anonymous No.12979458]

>>12979000
>t. brainlet

[Anonymous No.12979547]

>>12979000
Being proud of something you didn‘t personally achieve is indeed pathetic. And no, feeling presisposed towards your compatriots is not national pride.

[Anonymous No.12979620]

>>12979547
>Being proud of something you didn‘t personally achieve is indeed pathetic.
You don't ever achieve anything "personally". All your successes and failures are nested in a socium. Can a war vet feel pride in defending his country from invasion? I mean, technically he only "personally" contributed to a small, ultimately insignificant portion of the victory, which would've probably been achieved without him anyway?
What about a successful businessman? Can he be proud? He didn't PERSONALLY create the economic system which allowed him to achieve that success in the first place.
How about a scientist? Could Einstein be proud of achieving his theories of light and timespace? I guess not, he, after all, never personally developed all the preceding scientific knowledge which made his discovering possible at all.

[Anonymous No.12979694]

>>12979620
You‘re sort of making my point for me. All these people have every right to be proud of their own contributions, just as much as your average neet who posts on 4chan about being supirior because he happened to be born in the same country as them doesn‘t.

[Anonymous No.12980140]

>>12978381
Nationalism is a cheap replacement for traditionalism. Prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.12980190]

>>12979547
>Being proud of something you didn‘t personally achieve is indeed pathetic.
I'm proud of my big sister. I'm not allowed to?

[Anonymous No.12980197]

>>12980190
See >>12978531

[Anonymous No.12980225]

Its for commoners, most people dont achieve much. Its really not that bad. Just sounds like another intellectual fellating his "class"

[Anonymous No.12980248]

>>12978381
No, our times are easy now and we take living for granted. My grandpa fought in World War II and survived an operation where 80% of the people died. Throughout history millions of people put their life at a risk and even sacrificed it for the future of the country. Without them, I would not exist, my family would not exist, the entire country and its population could have disappeared like many others did. The countries that remained in Europe took the test of hundreds and thousands of years. The least I can do is to be respectful towards this fact. It's a smaller miracle that such small countries survived this long to live in peace now

[Anonymous No.12980303]

>>12978381
Schopenhauer let Austrian snipers pick off commie revolutionaries from his apartment window during a riot. He is a reactionary in every sense of the word. His statement is merely suggesting that you shouldn't let tribal monkey instincts dictate your thoughts and actions.

[Anonymous No.12980390]

I see national pride as a simple necessity.
If you have 10 different nations, 9 of which are composed of rational and logical individualists who don't place any value on the nation, and the 10th one is composed of united, proud and fervent mudslimes, guess whats going to happen and who's going to steamroll the opposition? Oh wait no need for guessing, just take a look at Yurop

[Anonymous No.12980494]

>>12980197
Good. So it's allowed.

[Anonymous No.12980505]

This guy sounds absolutely based. Where to start with him?

[Anonymous No.12980509]

>>12980140
it drops all the supernatural garbage

[Anonymous No.12980521]

>>12980303
The context of the quote in OP is itself reactionary, nationalism was a left wing movement in the 19th century. It was some sort of democratic meme about bringing the people together.

[Anonymous No.12980537]

>>12978381
Just because something's cheap doesn't mean it's bad. If we're going to run with the metaphor that pride has a cost, you can have a modicum of national pride for a bargain, and spend the rest on the more expensive pride such as pride in one's accomplishments.

What's dumb about this quote is that pride doesn't have a cost. If you like your country you take some pride in it. It doesn't interfere with you taking pride in yourself or anything else.