/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12970437]

the 'ubermensch' is just a nihilist who lies to himself

[Anonymous No.12970444]

[Anonymous No.12970469]

>>12970444
Based trips of truth

[Anonymous No.12970489]

>>12970444
he was a nihilist in denial
God is the only solution

[Anonymous No.12970497]

>>12970489

[Anonymous No.12970525]

>>12970489
God, lol.

[Anonymous No.12970533]

>>12970444
This.
>tfw you realize God is dead was a lament

[Anonymous No.12970553]

>>12970437
To my understanding, an Ubermensch is someone who strives forth in the face of adversity and obstacles. Hang on, I've written it down somewhere...

"Someone who has succeeded in overcoming obstacles while also accepting their failures with grace."

[Anonymous No.12970560]

>>12970444
>Recognize early in life that nihilism is going to be the band of human existence
Whoever wrote this never read Nietzsche. Nihilism is the exact thing that eventually creates the last man, in which sprouts the ubermensch.

[Anonymous No.12970867]

there's literally nothing "uber" about a pansy wuss nihilist

[Anonymous No.12970985]

>>12970497
>read schoppe
.>read nitchee
>think
>still believe in simple transcendent unity
Why aren't all retards so obvious?

[Anonymous No.12971110]

>>12970985
He didn't even make it to Kant
Go easy on him, he's innocent in his ignorance

[Anonymous No.12971125]

the ubermensch is sentient capital

[Anonymous No.12971438]

Probably correct considering the massive amount of passages he wrote about the avoidance of negative thoughts. He says Wagner is dangerously melancholic, and to stop thinking entirely when trying to sleep.

[Anonymous No.12971559]

>>12970444
how the fuck was man supposed to "evolve"? The dude was a narcisist and would have sucked captain picards dick all day

[Anonymous No.12971582]

>>12971559
>how the fuck was man supposed to "evolve"?
when does he say that?
>the dude was a narcisist and would have sucked captain picards dick all day
Stop projecting, anon. The Dude was a character from The Big Lebowski.

[Anonymous No.12971722]

>>12971582
>when does he say that?

who the fuck is the overman?

[Anonymous No.12971735]

>>12971722
never go full retard

[Anonymous No.12971749]

>>12970489
>God is the only solution

[Anonymous No.12972197]

“Strength is the ability to lie to oneself” (Nietzsche, The Will To Power)

[Anonymous No.12972213]

>>12972197
That must be a really liberal interpretation because he certainly didn't say that.

[Anonymous No.12972214]

>>12971749
>posting this cringe as fuck pepe cartoon

[Anonymous No.12972227]

>>12970437
there's no truth

[Anonymous No.12972237]

>>12970489
>He doesn't simply rebel against the absurd

[Anonymous No.12972242]

>>12972214
t. salty christcuck

[Anonymous No.12972258]

He wasn't a nihilist. He just failed to overcome nihilism.

[Anonymous No.12972281]

>>12972258
he left us his blueprints so we could try it, though.

[Anonymous No.12972303]

>>12972281
try nihilism or try to overcome it?

[Anonymous No.12972328]

>>12972303
try to overcome it, of course.

[Anonymous No.12972399]

>>12972227
According to Nietzsche the only thing that matters are the untruths of existence.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.12972539]

>>12970437
Try reading him

>>12970444
Fpbp

>>12970553
>Someone who has succeeded in overcoming obstacles while also accepting their failures with grace."
Is that it?!
!!

[Anonymous No.12972568]

>>12972328
so how do I become the ubermensch?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.12972707]

>>12972568
Make the purpose of your life *yourself*
Delight in life, accept failure with grace.
I like Tholander’s take on it very much if you haven’t guessed

[Anonymous No.12972784]

>>12971559
the absolute state of /lit/

[Anonymous No.12972786]

>>12972539
Sounds like an Ubermench to me. Everyone fails, there is no such thing as perfection, so accept them, learn from them, and move on. Obstacles will be overcome.

[Anonymous No.12972896]

>>12972707
>Tholander
HOLD THE FUCKITY TUCKITY UP
so the Pippi Longstocking being the Übermensch meme isn't a joke after all?
I just searched for "Tholander Nietzsche" and the first link was pic related (haven't read it yet tho)

[Anonymous No.12972924]

>>12970444

Absolutely right except for the fact that religion didn't collapse.
Despite everything We're still here and we'll remain here untill the end times.

[Anonymous No.12972951]

>>12970525
>>12970497
>>12971749
>>12972237
lol the raid is strong today. Today the Lord of this world defeated death. Seeeethe more.

[Anonymous No.12973160]

>>12971749
God is love, so yes. The type of love that justifies existence of everything.

[Anonymous No.12973299]

>>12970437

[Anonymous No.12973307]

>>12970437
can the overman defeat one theist man?

[Anonymous No.12973335]

>>12970437
The uvermensch is the dream of the arrogant who wants to become God. We're mere animals and thus we can't decide our morals, they're dictated to us by our very nature that constitutes us.

The answer Nietzsche gave to nihilism was a petty try to take a society who killed God and give it meaning. "If we killed God then we must become our own God", but turns out that's easier said than done. We musn't become God, rather embrace it.

[Anonymous No.12973343]

>>12972707
So the reason I haven't fallen for the nihilism meme was because my grandma used to read me stories of Astrid Lindgren and therefore trained me so well I skipped the nihilistic phase?
Based.
Also, I'd recommend Ronia the Robber's Daughter to anyone here that has/will have kids.

[Anonymous No.12973352]

>>12973335
is man in two parts free will and defined by a nature through our behavior? God exists with in us and since we all evolved from the same circumstances that figure is the same in all people. It is as written into us as all emotions.

[Anonymous No.12973400]

>>12972896
>first paragraph perpetuates a myth
Can't be that good of a paper honestly.

[Anonymous No.12973416]

>>12972568
It's a condition of the heart, just like the kingdom of heaven. For the latter you read the Bible, for the former you read Thus Spake Zarathustra.

[Anonymous No.12973435]

>>12973352
I consider free will part of our nature. Having free will doens't mean you'll feel good by doing X like Nietzsche suposes, there's an objective morality which every rational being understands.
Our free will doesn't let us violate these rules free of charge, just like you can't just gorge on food without becoming a walmart costumer you can't just change the moral value of an action from bad to good and viceversa.
You can lie to yourself and justify the action, works pretty well for psychopaths and tyrants, but you can't change the objective value of that action and make it good.
When it comes to discussing morality there's a cynical coldness from which people look at moral rules. You can see this in abortion and euthanasia advocates, they have no problem rationally thinking we have the authority to end human life on a whim but every person who has gone through those processes won't agree with such a blunt conclusion about that right. Women who have gone through abortion aren't happy about it and even people who euthanise their dogs are ridden with guilt over effectively killing their pet (I've experienced this recently, it fucking sucks and I can't imagine pulling the plug on a coma patient). So yeah, even if people pretend abortion or euthanasia is good, and with Nietszche's thinking they perfectly work with that moral, reality is more complicated than that and turns out they all partly regret that action because they know they've done a moral wrong.

[Anonymous No.12973453]

>>12973435
>objective value
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.12973466]

>>12970560
Yeah Nietzsche needed paneuropean nihilism to springboard off of

[Anonymous No.12973503]

>>12973453
Nice argument.

[Anonymous No.12973520]

>>12973335
it's the dream of the man who wishes to be free. one who recognizes his place in the universe and strives against it.

the reality is that God was just an abstract figure in the human psyche that was used to guide and provide him wisdom. it gave early man insight into meaning that guided him through the days before we came to know the Universe.

now that we know it, we also know ourselves, and we know that the human is God, or at least in part. and that meaning and purpose can only stem from one's self.

so maybe God is just fractured now, no longer a united entity in the form of common belief but a singular one that sits in each human 'soul.'

the ubermensch is just a way for a man to become greater than himself. to put it in less abstract terms, it's a way to stand solid, on your own two feet, confident and composed and sure in your knowledge despite your numerous flaws. and through that, to become greater, to become closer to the concept of God, which is really just the best of Humanity personified.

does any of that make sense?

[Anonymous No.12973551]

>>12973503
ok give me your account of what "value" is, such that the phrase "objective value" isn't self contradictory, if "objective" is taken to mean as "mind independent"

on my account, and i claim this is how the ordinary person uses the term, "value" is an attitude or disposition towards something. to say that i value vanilla over chocolate, safety, or love, is to say i "like" those things, to be simplistic. this is consistent with the phrase "value judgment" which denotes a similar thing.

if by objective you mean "universal", then the existence of psychopaths contradicts your claim that "there's an objective morality which every rational being understands".
if by objective you do mean mind-independent, then the fact (if it is a fact) that "every rational being understands" doesn't help you

[Anonymous No.12973586]

>>12973435
for your dog I think is different because you did it to end its suffering which is ultimately the right choice. With abortion, I can see it being the same if either the child or mom's life is at risk but I do see the cold cynicism when they start to rationalize doing it out of convenience for them going through schooling or trying to do something to better their lives, its like you are really weighing a lifestyle choice over the life of another being?

[Anonymous No.12973615]

>>12973520
>does any of that make sense?
It does, but it doesn't tackle my reasoning. You're describing your idea of an ubermensch, which is just a personality trait, really. What I'm discussing is that the part to make your own morals is false and you actually perpetuated it when you said "and we know that the human is God, or at least in part.". The problem here is that you consider that we can take control of God, maybe God is inside us, I don't really know but it is not something you can become or control. The situation with abortion and euthanasia I mentioned earlier show that people can't choose the morality of an action, it's either good or bad.

>>12973551
My definition of value is a number, A or B, wet or dry. "Objective" refers to absolute truth/reality of the moral rule and "value" refers to data. Maybe it's because I'm spanish and we might use words a bit differently, but I intended to use value in an objective way like "water is wet" then "wet is a value of water".

The existence of psychopaths doesn't contradict my existence because they understand what is a moral wrong and a moral good, that doesn't mean they have to follow the moral goods but that doesn't make killing a person unprovoked a moral good. Obsiously you can never trust a psychopath to tell you the truth so we can't really ask them, but the objective value of an action doesn't change and this is seen throughout the world because different cultures followed very similar moral rules which derive from core concepts. No human in their right mind would say that lying is a moral good. You might say that sometimes it is justified, and obviously everybody lies at some point in their lives, but that doesn't stop the act of lying from beig morally bad.

[Anonymous No.12973636]

>>12970553
lol what obstacles? seeing a black man kiss a white woman on tv?

[Anonymous No.12973638]

>>12973307
Not even one muslim.

[Anonymous No.12973641]

>>12973615
we simply can't become a god as we would need to evolve, but evolution only occurs by chance through survival. But we don't have any problems with survival as we are one of the most prolific mammals on earth. We need to evolve into a god but nature tells us your good man and thus we don't evolve.

[Anonymous No.12973650]

>>12973615
you're using the word value in a sense taken from computing. how does this mesh with everyday use of the word, or the value in "moral values"? if i say i value love, what does it mean if we read that as me saying "love = 1"? and why would i even say "i value love" which has "i" in it, if i'm not making a statement about myself? wouldn't i rather say, "love is good"? are those two sentences the same thing in your view? when my mom said "this girl has no values!" about my sister, what was she describing exactly?

i fully understand you meant to use value in an objective way, but my problem is that it doesn't mesh well with the kind of thing value is, at least on my understanding of it.

>psychopaths
boy that really seems convenient, we can't ask them because they'll obviously lie, but they obviously understand morality, because dude just trust me lmao

[Anonymous No.12973667]

>>12973416
Also sprach Zartustra bedeutet übrigens nicht, also, sprach Zarathustra, sondern All so sprach Zarathustra. Zu lesen wie in der Form: Dieses sprach er.
Klassische Hochsprache.

Machen viele falsch.

[Anonymous No.12973678]

>>12973416
but people can't all just up and condition their heart unless was Nietzsche just trying to solve the issue within the reader or was he trying to fix society as a whole?

[Anonymous No.12973680]

>>12973586
I really can't translate the moral dilema I had AFTER I effectively killed my dog. This is the most chilling thing, I held it as the vet injected him the anesthetic fully aware of what I was doing, but after the fact I felt how wrong that was by my part. I really felt like I didn't have any right of taking it's life, even though I'm his owner and I waged his suffering into the ultimate decission, I still asked myself who the fuck am I to kill my dog? Where does this authority come from? One minute I had my lovely dog in my arms and the next minute it was laying on the ground, lifeless. Is life meaningless enough that I can decide to end it without any remorse? Then why have I cried so much for a bag of meat and bones which before the injection was my dog?

Sorry for getting emotional, but I can't help it with this topic.

[Anonymous No.12973685]

>>12973680
YOU'RE REIFYING YOUR FEELS
IT'S OK TO HAVE EMOTIONS THEY'RE JUST NOT OBJECTIVE OR UNIVERSAL
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.12973709]

>>12973680
The authority is called "you can."

Just like in the first Pirates of the carribean.

[Anonymous No.12973733]

>>12973680
I totally get that now even though I have never been in your situation I can agree that it is really hard to comprehend it until you have been in the situation yourself

[Anonymous No.12973748]

>>12973680
If you're in a moral dilemma that consists whether killing a close person is bad or good, read Bhagavad Gita to understand it from a trascendental perspective.
Did your dog have an unsolvable problem/unstoppable suffering? Then you did your duty by killing it.
Did you do it because you wanted it to stop bothering you? One may think that this is wrong, yet it has some justifications that you may think of.
Read the text Bhagavad Gita to grow up from that dilemma.

[Anonymous No.12973794]

>>12973733
Another anon here, my grandfather that was suffering, tried to starve himself to death, even though I am a marvellous Nietzsche Scholar I violated his right to end himself, with calling an ambulance and forcing them to take him into the hospital where they hydrated him. He died 2 weeks after that. I wasnt thinking about myself at all, I just wanted him to ... I dont even know. I am just saying that has nothing to do with morales or personal choice.

The closest that I could describe it with is that you start to eat your own mother after a plane crash, it wasnt a choice I made, but my biology. We are beasts. The Morality ends when it gets important.

[Anonymous No.12973820]

>>12973794
wow dude that last line.

[Anonymous No.12973833]

>>12970437
I'm reading TSZ and you guys are taking it too far.
IMO becoming the overman is not about choosing what is write or wrong by yourself, but creating your own set of values and acting on it because you want to and not because you have.
Nietzsche explains it nicely with the camel vs. lion example, he says that the spirit has to become a lion to face the "you have" dragon. The point is not going against the content of the "scales" of the dragon, againt the values itself, but switching gears from "you have to" form "I want to".
You guys don't have to go around killings kids to surpass man.

[Anonymous No.12973864]

>>12973833
That is Kant you are talking about. If your metamorphosis from Lion to Child includes the inherited dogma of killing children to be impremented on the society so be it.

[Anonymous No.12973908]

>>12973864
>If your metamorphosis from Lion to Child includes the inherited dogma of killing children to be impremented on the society so be it
>IF
This is true in principle, but this actually happening is very unlikely. Also, as far as I'm concerned, it is not the duty of the overman to reshape society based on his new set of values, considering how much solitude is emphasized.
I might be wrong tho, havn't finished the book yet

[Anonymous No.12973915]

>>12973908
Even that is your choice.

[Anonymous No.12974237]

>>12970437
This is a perfect summary of what the uberman is. What did you read to arrive at that conclusion?

I'm unironically currently writing a book explaining what you said in detail.

[Anonymous No.12974300]

>>12974237
Lel at your casuality.

[Anonymous No.12974303]

>>12974237
your book is shit

[Anonymous No.12974312]

You can't choose to be an ubermensch.

[Anonymous No.12974390]

>>12970437
>An entire thread devoted to eeediots discussin de ubermensch.
>Not even one mention of Eternal recurrence
>All these transcendental readings of neet chay
>The tripfag who will not be named here with inane existenhulism she gleaned from her baby's first neet chee book
/Lit/ is hopeless

[Anonymous No.12974406]

>>12974300
Same.

>>12974303
It'd actually be the wisest thing you've ever read were I to show it to you.

>>12974390
I doubt even a third of the people in here have finished one of his books.

[Anonymous No.12974455]

>>12973636
You’re thinking of a different kind of ubermench.

[Anonymous No.12974476]

>>12970533
"God is dead" was about people being doomed to freedom once they reject the idea that their fate has been set in stone from birth to grave. Some people ascend, others fall deep. He was literally talking about doomers and bloomers.

[Anonymous No.12974615]

>>12974476
he isn't dead, we are just in a dark age of understanding the universe around us. We are aware now that there is so much we don't know. It is like when an artist comes to an understanding of the fundamentals before their skillset can keep up. In time as we grow smarter we will reincorporate the spiritual in a way never before conceived.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!NQABdPqoAH2 No.12974667]

>>12972896
Yeah, I don't mes around, boy.

>>12973307
In what way?

>>12974237
Your book will be shit, cowardly shit.
The übermensch needs no gods to light the way. The way is lit by his own presence. Baseball cards hold more wisdom then the retrograde you're trying to make into a book.
Just saying. Have a nice day

>>12974390
What about "Eternal recurrence" did you want to talk about?

>>12974476
Don't mix up your memes with this

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!NQABdPqoAH2 No.12974678]

>>12974615
You worship capital 20X more than any of the old gods. I don't care how deep you think your faith is, deeper down you know there is no god.

[Anonymous No.12974698]

>>12974678
that's half true

[Anonymous No.12974904]

>>12974667
>What about "Eternal recurrence" did you want to talk about
The fact that you have to ask this question in a discussion surrounding the ubermensch proves you know nothing about freddy neetz. It's only his greatest concept and the only thing that can redeem the otherwise foul stench of kantian transcendentalism or even worse platonic idealism from the concept of the übermensch

[Anonymous No.12974938]

>>12974904
I came up with the idea of eternal recurrence on my own in like middle school, I still stop and think occasionally about perhaps living this life over and over again, it really changes how you view things

[Anonymous No.12975249]

>>12972924
In the future a white Christian will be as rare as an Arab Christian is now. Whites wont be Muslim though.

The majority of Christians will be African, Asian and other non whites.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.12975373]

>>12974904
How in the hell would I know what you wanted to say about eternal recurrence?
Your drunken swagger indicates you just want to skewer Kant and Plato. Be my guest.

>>12975249
There won’t be any Christians or Muslims in the future

[Anonymous No.12975711]

>>12974904
Eternal recurrence is based off of a misunderstanding of infinity.
It's very clear that Nietzsche didn't understand that you can have real infinity without cycles. This, however, can be demonstrated with proof.
Without the necessity he imparts to eternal recurrence, it just becomes a vacuous platitude.
Nietzsche had many far more interesting ideas than both the Übermensch and eternal recurrence, despite both of them providing the basis for a great deal of his work.

[Anonymous No.12975797]

>>12975373
>There won’t be any Christians or Muslims in the future
You've been saying that for an awful while now...I imagine that they both will continue to exist right up until the extinction of our mankind.

[Anonymous No.12975806]

so many life-deniers
baka

[Anonymous No.12975864]

The only people who care about the ubermench are squirrely freaks and associated homosexuals.Souls that cling to this sort of thing are small, jealous, arrogant, and terrified.

[Anonymous No.12976441]

>>12974667
>The übermensch needs no gods to light the way.
The true übermensch doesn't. And the true übermensch mentality is impossible to arrive at. That's point one, point two is that I'm not writing a guide on how to become the übermensch, but on understanding what it means to be one and close to being one. You'd like it actually.

[卐 No.12976726]

>>12970444

[Anonymous No.12976738]

>>12973636
If a White woman wishes to waste herself on someone who's likely not going to be a good partner, that's her decision. By and large, White men are the most desirable men on the planet. Scientific fact, proven by studies. White women who waste their time with Black men generally end up regretting it. They are a people who have a low average IQ, among the lowest racial IQ's on the planet. Tragic, but none the less, a scientifically proven fact. I think those of Papua New Guinea might be the ones with the lowest IQ.

[卐 No.12976746]

>>12972539
>>12972707
Omg your so brilliant, ur definitely not the type of chick to remain in contact with the guy who supposedly raped you and seasonally titilate him via social media with scanty pictures of yourself behind your boyfriends back- tell me more about a life of meaning

[Anonymous No.12976749]

>implying lying to yourself is a bad thing

Next

[Anonymous No.12976770]

>>12970533
>God is dead isn't a celebration
The death of god was a necesary evil for man to be able to actualise himself in a way unhindered by false morality.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.12977340]

>>12975797
An awful but short period in the big scheme of things. Not long now.

>>12976441
Maybe.

>>12976770
This

[卐 No.12978456]

>>12977340
I’m sorry. I’m ashamed for what I said. Sometimes I succumb to stupidity. Happy easter to you and your family. <3
Sincerely, from Chicago

[Anonymous No.12978978]

>>12970437

[Anonymous No.12979349]

>>12976746
??

[Anonymous No.12979736]

>>12973667
I got it wrong all the time, but this clicks very well.

Danke Bernd.

[Anonymous No.12979746]

>>12970437
interesting reformulation of the canard paired with the image, not bad

[Anonymous No.12979769]

>>12973299
>it is possible to die without being born

[Anonymous No.12979801]

>>12973636
the obstacle of existing. Read Zarathustra