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/lit/ - Literature

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12914617 No.12914617 [Reply] [Original]

>numbers aren't real lmao

what did he meme by this?

>> No.12914626

They literally aren’t.

>> No.12914639

>>12914626
Check these numbers, fagtron.

>> No.12914648

>>12914617
Only Brahman-Atman is real.

>> No.12914663

>>12914617
Numbers are sacred symbols of the metaphysical Principle used to reveal esoteric emanations of Tradition. Inshallah.

>> No.12914672

Did Guenon pioneer religious LARPing or did others do it before him?

>> No.12914681

>>12914672
is it rly LARPing if u do it 24/7

>> No.12914692

>>12914681
what else would you call this variety of shopping for the right faith?

>> No.12914694

>>12914672
Papus did

>> No.12914771

>>12914648
This but unironically

>> No.12914798

nothing is real but our minds make it so

>> No.12914822

>>12914692
Guenon didn't 'shop' for religion. He became a Muslim before writing his first book. All his books were written from the perspective of a committed Sufi Muslim who just happened to take an interest in other religions and who also could read Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Arabic, Chinese, Hebrew etc. This wasn't even totally unprecedented as the Quran pretty much says Allah created the other religions, and there is a long history of Sufi thinkers saying that basically all religions come from and lead to God.

>Ibn Arabi extensively discusses religion in the sense of the “ideal” versus “historical” or “esoteric” versus “the exoteric”. Ibn ‘Arabi concludes that the absolute unity of religions may only occur within spiritual, ideal, or transcendental realm (or “esoteric”), which is beyond the formal form of religions.

http://aljamiah.or.id/index.php/AJIS/article/download/149/69

>> No.12914827

>>12914822
Wasn't he a hindu before becoming a muslim?

>> No.12914836

>>12914798

Go yank your crank to Ophelia, Hamlet.

>> No.12914892

>>12914827
One must be born Hindu. Guénon, by not being born a Hindu was automatically casteless. However, I heard a bunch of Brahmin priests offered him a way of becoming a legitime Hindu, but Guénon rejected. (Don't take my post too serious, this is only what I have heard from others!)

>> No.12914928

>>12914892
The caste system shouldn't be based on birth according to the earliest Hindu sages and philosophers, a Western "convert" should be able to choose their own caste based on their skills and education.

Sadly in reality this isn't so. This is why Guenon became a Muslim and why I am thinking of becoming one too.

>> No.12914944

>>12914836
i would eat a crocodile for her

>> No.12914964

>>12914928
>and why I am thinking of becoming one too
Could you please post a short summary of your views on these subjects and how they evolved over time in your life? I'm struggeling with religion and search for Truth myself. I became a Roman Catholic a while ago after being an atheist/agnost for most of my life, but it doesn't fit entirely. I won't say it feels like LARP, but I'm poised between 'truly believing' and not believing. I guess that my world view currently lies closest to Plotinus. (Also are you >>12914822 ?)

>> No.12914988

>>12914964
I should add that I feel attracted to Sufi Islam as well, but not sunni, shia or other 'denominations' of islam as they feel too exoteric and dogmatic for me. I feel like most muslims -like most christians- just try to follow a few 'worldly' rules yet have absolutely no deeper understanding of the divine. Regarding sufism, however, I am afraid that I will never be able to become one, for languages really aren't my thing. There's no way that I can learn Arabic well enough to understand an study sufi texts, which I assume are mostly in Arabic.

And of course the fact that my knowledge about this is only very superficial at the moment

>> No.12915014

>>12914663
This Higgs gets it. Everybody in this thread needs to read up on Pythagoreanism.

>> No.12915022
File: 79 KB, 720x960, XZCAZdN.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12915022

>>12914827
It's generally thought that while in Paris he was informally initiated into an understanding of Advaita by some Hindus because out of nowhere he suddenly demonstrates a really deep understanding of it in his writings and there had not been much western writing on it then, it remains unclear whether Guenon would have considered this a formal initiation into Hinduism (probably not)
>>12914892
There is no hard rule against conversion in Hinduism, it's more that because he wasn't formally born into a caste he would have been sorta an outsider. It is possible to be adopted by a family and have their caste bestowed on you though, and various Hindu sects are known to offer initiations to westerners. I think his reasons for becoming a Muslim/Sufi aside from that its easier to access was that he wasn't interested in total renunciation and Sufism offers non-dualism that can be practiced while living in a home with a wife etc.

>> No.12915040

>>12914988
Become a Christian mystic

>> No.12915046

>>12914892
bet he realized that as a low caste hindu he'd have to clean those dirty sewers and shitted streets on the daily even unwillingly

>> No.12915058

>>12914988
>>12914964
I was raised by very atheist parents but still was christened as a Catholic due to my extended family's wishes.

During my early teens, I was a communist and atheist for a brief period before switching to radical Catholicism and fascism when I was 16, that was where I sadly dwelt for the remainder of my teen years.

At around age 22, I shunned all politics completely (hopefully forever) and "converted" to Vaishnavite Hinduism (not ISKCON) after reading the Mahabharata and Upanishads. I am quite familiar woth the basics of the religion and arguably the BIGGEST problem I am facing with it, is that is not as universalist as Christianity and Islam are, and it is hard to reconcile my European ethnicity and Hinduism.

Around this time, I have came to slowly despise Christianity, probably because of a close friend who converted to Adventism and spewed his bullshit and tried to convert me everytime I saw him.

In the future, I could possibly see myself converting to Islam. The only two denominations I am considering are Sufi or Shia.

And no I'm not that poster.

>> No.12915086

>>12915058
> is that is not as universalist
Isn't hinduism very metaphysical and hence universal in nature? I would think that only the way that these ideas are symbolized through myths etc are culturally indian.

Also thank you for your answer

>> No.12915112

>>12915086
Its philosophy is universalist but, as you have said, the mythological manifestations of the philosophical tenets aren't. If only bhakti could be syncretized with European pagan gods, then my mind would be at peace. Well at least the Rig Veda shares common deities therefore it is fair to consider some gods as being virtually the same but with different nomenclature and stories.

>> No.12915292

>>12915058
Enjoying your religious tourism? What a joke.

>> No.12915302

>>12914648
>Brahman-Atman
in Christianity these two things are the relationship between the Father and Christ.

>> No.12915323

>>12914617
numbers exist entirely a priori and are a tool we use to simplify a messy reality
read kant nigr

>> No.12915334

>>12915022
holy fuck this woman is beautiful

>> No.12915337

>>12914648
Imagine being 7 and on 4chan

>> No.12915347

>>12914663
Imagine fucking your sister and missing the goat

>> No.12915449

>>12915334
ew

>> No.12915465

>>12914617
He was right brainlet?

>> No.12915511

>>12915347
imagine fucking your sister and your parents being cool with it.

>> No.12915647

>>12914928
Don't convert to Islam. You'll end up extremely disappointed. I was Muslim for 11 years and there's nothing really to be found in it. The states of consciousness you can experience through thikr have nothing inherently "islamic" about them. Islam isn't needed to attain them and Muslims in general are weary of such things, as well as almost no one you will encounter, even sheikhs/teachers, nearly none of them will be able to actually explain to you what is going on. They will just say it's Allah's power/will or something like that but not be of any help. They don't have any systematic understanding of these things, it's all seen in a "magical thinking" kind of way.

>> No.12915678

>>12915647
Do you know if this is true for sufi mystics as well?

>> No.12915684

>>12914988
You realise there are English speaking Sufi groups.

The Naqshbandi haqqanis are a main one. Nuh Keller's group is another.

>> No.12915687

>>12915678
Yes they are people who taught me how to do thikr and who I asked about what I had experienced. They couldn't explain.

For the most part they are concerned with following the shariah as closely as possible.

>> No.12915695

>>12915687
Also I should add that usually these people get angry when you start asking these kind of questions...

>> No.12915697

>>12915302
Kill yourself heresayist

>> No.12915715

>>12915687
Too bad, I feel like this is the case with all catholics, worshippers and teachers such as priests alike as well. I had hoped that at least in sufism a truly deeper understanding of the divine would still be present, but I'm afraid Isla'am is going the same path as Christianity has gone.
Also, what are your experiences with thikr and can the same be achieved with praying the rosary?

>>12915684
I'm from western Europe and I've looked into local sufi orders but they all seem unauthentic.

>> No.12915723
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12915723

>>12914617
He is correct tho. Just like pure mathematics isn't science.

>> No.12915727

>>12914626

They are a language of logic.

Is language real?

>> No.12915745

>>12915715
When I left Islam I tried praying the rosary to see if anything would happen if I made the same inner effort, but nothing did.

My current understanding is that it happens because your attention is kept still long enough to detach from your ordinary feeling of self and move inward. Theoretically that could happen with the rosary, if your attention could be kept still enough for long enough. It is really beside the point though. You don't need any of this stuff. You just need to understand how your mind works and to act in such a way to bring about the correct states. Yoga, by which I mean patanjali yoga, can teach you this.

India is a better option than Islam because so many people speak english. When I was in the middle almost no one spoke english. Actually right now I'm in India and I could probably get by without knowing Hindi, even though I have learnt it.

>> No.12915756

>>12915323
Leibniz cleared that first.

>> No.12915762

>>12915715
>i had hoped that at least in sufism a truly deeper understanding of the divine would still be

Oh definitely not... I spent over a year in a Sufi lodge in the middle east and it was pure mysticism. Mostly revolving around love and adoration of Mohammad with no intellectual understanding of what is necessary to attain liberation in any meaningful sense, except of course pure submission to the Shariah and every thing Islam demands. I had looked into other groups and its all the same. Mostly Muhammad idolisation, same as Bakhti worship in India.

>> No.12915771

>>12915762
sounds like you're lost and you're looking for your "self" in places where you'll never find it anyway.

>> No.12915785

>>12915762
Have you ever read Idries Shah?

>> No.12915796

>>12915771
Yes I was lost when I was a Muslim. The thing with that is you don't realise it at the time. Eventually I realized the problem and left the religion..

>> No.12915807

>>12915785
Yes. He was presenting theosophist teachings as if they were real Sufism.

>> No.12915811

>>12915745
When I pray a rosary, I usually start thinking/conversing. Usually I try to look at myself from a point of view that is not mine to see where my flaws are and how to do better in the future, or I start pondering the nature of God. Sometimes I am just silent in mind, waiting for answers/insights. Is this on par with "detaching from your ordinary feeling of self and move inward" or am I doing it wrong. I've never been taught how to pray, so it goes quite intuitively

>>12915762
Too bad. Guess I'll keep looking within Christianity then. Perhaps the orthodox have what I search for.
Has any perennialist ever written some kind of guide to find out which Tradition would suit you?

>> No.12915823

>>12915727
Are abstractions real?

>> No.12915827

>>12915811
I don't think this will work very well because you need your attention to become totally still, not moving from object to object.

>> No.12915834

>>12915807
Nooo hahaha. I guess it’s impossible to really argue that point though. I would suggest Among the Dervishes by O.M. Burke as supplemental reading if you’re really interested/really feel up to it.

>> No.12915838
File: 37 KB, 236x351, 7cede8d68fc811b510457c64f25aa4bd--tobacco-pipes-pipe-smoking.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12915838

>>12915827
All right, I will try that anytime soon. Thanks

>> No.12915861

>>12915811
The inner detaching only happens when your attention has been still for a prolonged period, not allowing it to drift and constantly bringing it back until it becomes stable and fixed on the object. For example observing the breath, or your hearing. Hearing worked best for me. Then when the detaching happens you can move your attention onto more subtle objects like your "feeling of I" which is not accessible before that.

https://www.amazon.in/Yoga-Philosophy-Patanjali-Bhasvati-Annotations/dp/8187594004/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1554945770&refinements=p_27%3AHariharananda+Aranya&s=books&sr=1-1

It talks about it in here in the section on concentration. This is the best book I've found.

>> No.12915884

>>12914617
He meant that numbers are a human interpretation of quantifying and ordering their surroundings. Are we honestly going to assume that humans developed an identical system for such a feat as every single other species in the entire universe capable of developing such systems?

If so that proposes that the universe operates under strict mathematical guidelines, which seeing as there are hundreds if not thousands of mathematical problems which can't be solved objectively (see, the circumference of a circle), this points to numbers, or at least, humans interpretations of numbers, to subjective.

>> No.12915888

>>12915745
In the middle east*

>> No.12915924

>>12914617
they aren't real, of course. no such thing as the number 5. "5" is just some black pixels on your screen lmao. many civilizations never came up with concepts such as 0 or negative numbers because they never had to

>> No.12916226

>>12914617
If they're real then describe a number.

>> No.12916410
File: 3.23 MB, 2560x1920, Mandel_zoom_08_satellite_antenna.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12916410

>>12914617
>numbers aren't real lmao
Recently I have been thinking about how weird irrational numbers are.

>> No.12916809

>>12915302
That's not correct at all. Brahman-Atman is one in Advaita Vedanta philosophy, and it is all of reality, not a relationship between hypostases of God.

>>12915337
Yes, 7 year olds talk about Hindu philosophy all the time, you got me.