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/lit/ - Literature


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12901310 No.12901310 [Reply] [Original]

>i hate fascists but all my ideas would lead to it

why the fuck are neomarxists and the whole new left so retarded? was it heidegger?

>> No.12901326

Where's the source for that quote, frend?

>> No.12901345

I think most of his important work was written during a period when Fascism was a meaningful political entity and the new left had yet to come into existence.

>> No.12901364

>>12901345
Semantics. Its like arguing whether Descartes was part of the enlightenment or not.

>> No.12901374

>>12901310
In a certain sense you are right: the left remained firmly entrenched in the materialist view of history of Marx, while the right used Gramsci's and Adorno's analysis against the left. The culture war was won by the right because the left largely refused to participate (this is valid of course only in the western world).

>> No.12901396

>>12901374
I think you mean the intellectual war was won by the right, the left utterly dominated the culture of the second half of last century, only now is the the right making some kind of push back.

>> No.12901451

>>12901396
The problem with that is that the left and right aren't unified entities.

In the west, we're seeing a 4 way conflict between neoliberalists, Marxists and others on the far left, Political Islam and a reactionary fascist right wing.

The most interesting thing is that the reactionary right seem to agree with the Frankfurt School with a lot of their observations on modern culture, but the genuine socialists do also, so while there is some truth to Adorno's ideas supporting fascism, supports of his view need not necessarily be fascists.

My question is whether or not we're going to see a fascist regime rise in our live times in the west based on Adorno's observations. I'm no /pol/tard, but I think they have a point when they say that it's merely a matter of time before we get another fascist upsurge in the west.

>> No.12901528

>>12901451
Huh, an actually good post

>> No.12901536
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12901536

FUCK NON GERMANIC MUSIC
FUCK NATIONALISM
FUCK *YOU*

>> No.12901572

>>12901451
>so while there is some truth to Adorno's ideas supporting fascism
desu there is less of that and more fascists co-opting Adorno to support themselves. Notice how they scapegoat Adorno for his ideas of explaining how capitalism is ruining culture to cultural marxists like him that is ruining culture

>> No.12901621

>>12901310
what? you've never read adorno
you've never read heidegger
quit posting, failure

>> No.12901678

>>12901572
The relationship between capitalism and fascism today is interesting. So many fascists pretend to be liberatarians and shill capitalism solely because it's the opposite of socialism, despite the fact that socialism is often more in line with their ideas and capital is what enables the aspects of society they hate. At the same time, fascism nowadays is enabled and controlled by capital. I don't think many of the self-identified fascists of today actually have the capacity to challenge the system they're under, but I suspect that all it will take is another economic recession followed by someone who actually has charisma and the resources to build an armed force to see a type of fascism that looks less like /pol/ LARPing and the occasional white male shooting spree to something that looks more like an organised political movement.

I'm unsure if Adorno would be horrified or just plain unsurprised that we're currently a single global distaster away from something like this happening.

>> No.12901850

>>12901364
I don’t think that analogy holds all that well.

But besides that point, Adorno was critical of the new left and believed that the student movements of the 60s had the potential to turn into a form of leftist fascism. He was even harassed by hippies to the point that it caused him to have a heart attack.

>> No.12901930

>>12901621
seething lefty

>> No.12901937

>>12901451
>>12901572
Can either of you anons direct me towards a particular work of his that elaborates on these ideas? Particularly
>explaining how capitalism is ruining culture
I am aware of the Frankfurt school's critique of capitalism but have never heard that they were used to justify fascism in any way.

>> No.12901951

>>12901572
>>12901451
It makes sense when you give up your probably retarded conception of fascism and remember that it's an idealistic branch of syndicalism.

>> No.12901977

>>12901310
wtf are you even talking about hahaha it’s like you’re trying to look learned but obvs have never read pic related, let alone heidegger.

>> No.12901997

>>12901678
Mandatory post:
>The struggle of people against capital has only ever been seen through the narrow focus of class. The only way to be regarded as a real adversary of capital has been to actively identify oneself with the proletariat; all else is romantic, petit bourgeois etc . . . But the very act of reasoning in classist terms means that any particular class is confined within the limits of class analysis. This is particularly important when one considers that the working class has as its mission the elimination of all classes. It also avoids the question of how that class will bring about its own autodestruction, since this classist analysis prevents any lessons being drawn from the tragic intellectual fate of those people who set themselves in opposition to capital without even recognising or identifying their enemy (as with Bergson, for example). Today, when the whole classist approach has been deprived of any solid base, it may be worthwhile to reconsider movements of the right and their thinking. The right is a movement of opposition to capital that seeks to restore a moment which is firmly rooted in the past. Hence in order to eliminate class conflict, the excesses of capitalist individualism, speculation and so on, the Action Francaise and the Nouvelle Action Francaise (NAF) envisage a community which can only be guaranteed, according to them, by a system of monarchy. (See particularly the chapter on capitalism in Les Dossiers de l'Action Francaise).

>> No.12902002

>>12901997
>It seems that every current or group which opposes capital is nonetheless obliged to focus always on the human as the basis of everything. It takes diverse forms, but it has a profoundly consistent basis and is surprisingly uniform wherever human populations are found. Thus by seeking to restore (and install) the volksgemeinschaft, even the Nazis represent an attempt to create such a community (cf. also their ideology of the Urmensh, the "original man"). We believe that the phenomenon of Nazism is widely misunderstood: it is seen by many people only as a demonic expression of totalitarianism. But the Nazis in Germany had reintroduced an old theme originally theorized by German sociologists like Tonnies and Max Weber. And so in response, we find the Frankfurt school, and most notably Adorno, dealing in empty and sterile concepts of "democracy", due to their incapacity to understand the phenomenon of Nazism. They have been unable to grasp Marx's great insight, which was that he posed the necessity of reforming the community, and that he recognised that this reformation must involve the whole of humanity. The problems are there for everybody; they are serious, and they urgently require solutions. People try to work them out from diverse political angles. However, it is not these problems which determine what is revolutionary or counter-revolutionary, but the solutions put forward - i.e. are they effective or not? And here the racketeer's mentality descends upon us once again: each gang of the left or the right carves out its own intellectual territory; anyone straying into one or the other of these territories is automatically branded as a member of the relevant controlling gang. Thus we have reification: the object is determinant, the subject passive.

>> No.12902138

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/209298250