Deleuze vs Guenon who did it better?

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Anonymous Sat Apr 6 01:10:39 2019 No.12888912 [Reply] [Original]

Deleuze vs Guenon who did it better?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 01:13:49 2019 No.12888924 >>12888912 one of the virtues(?) of 4chan is that a question this dumb and meaningless yet particular would never have been formulated had this board not been created

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 01:15:06 2019 No.12888927 >>12888912 did what better?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 01:16:36 2019 No.12888933 >>12888927 philosophy

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 01:18:35 2019 No.12888942 guenon is a non-entity nobody talks about him outside of this board he is a meme and all his books are just complaining he has no real insight on anything

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 01:27:16 2019 No.12888963 Deleuze all the way!

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 01:28:32 2019 No.12888967 Deleuze was a charlatan.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 05:10:45 2019 No.12889419 >>12888942 >all his books are just complaining he has no real insight on anything confirmed having not read him

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 05:13:19 2019 No.12889428 >>12888912 Newfag here, where do i start reading Deleuze ?? I understand his basic premise but which book should i read first to get it in its entirety.

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 05:16:24 2019 No.12889436

>>12889428
You need to have a working knowledge of Western philosophy to understand Deleuze. You especially need to know about the distinction between what Deleuze considers the dialectical tradion leading from Socrates to Hegel, and what he considers the anti-dialectical tradition of Bergson, Nietzsche, and Spinoza. Then you can read Deleuze starting with Difference and Repetition. To read Anti-Oedipus, you also need to have a working understanding of Freud and Lacan, as well as Lyotard to understand Guattari’s contributions.

Or you can just start with Deleuze and read philsophy backwards through him, which would be a very Deleuzian thing to do Try Difference and Repetition for actual complete sentences or Anti-Oedipus if you want to dive in, takes a lot of reading under the letters to get what he is trying to say in that one. I'd say at least read Spinoza first if you haven't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 05:39:07 2019 No.12889485 >>12889436 tell him to learn Latin while your at it

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 05:48:04 2019 No.12889504

>>12888912
Guenon criticized Deleuze's knowledge of Indian traditions and blames him for the decline of occuultism in France in favour of 'Marxism'. In the end, like so many others of which he was critical, Guenon viewed Deleuze as a patchwork and incomplete thinker who failed to acknoledge his deeper semiotic influence in his own work. The purity of guenon is conrasted with the ragtag syncretism of Deleuze, most worrying when looking at Deluze's metaphysics is the correlation between symbolism and number, that is to say things which appear as symbols at hand certainly aren't there. Deleuze philosophy is autonomous legislation, the creation of the superior forms of what is, becoming itself further inaccurate; it is not speculative comprehension, so Guenon does better what Deleuze tried to do without even intending to do it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 06:03:34 2019 No.12889537 >>12889436 You need to read Homer before this as well.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 06:20:24 2019 No.12889587 >>12888912 Guenon is infinitely better than Deleuze

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 07:17:57 2019 No.12889737 >>12888942 2bh nobody talks about Deleuze outside this board either

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 07:22:22 2019 No.12889746 >>12889737 He's popular in the architecture departments worldwide.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 07:29:23 2019 No.12889758 >>12888924 what a Deleuzean response

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 07:32:28 2019 No.12889765

>>12889428
Chapter 3 of Difference and Repetition for the closest thing to a telos or Heavenly Man you can get.

then the small books on philosophers, Bergson and Nietzche being the most important ones for me.

then ATP, which is the crown jewel and from there you can do whatever the fuck you want. Anti Oedepus, What is Philosophy, more minibooks, finish D&R

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 07:59:01 2019 No.12889836 >>12889746 so basically nobody...

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 10:22:41 2019 No.12890288 >>12889737 that's wrong. he is taken seriously in literature, ecology, anthropology, architecture, and any first rate philosophy departments (that means no anglos). he is very much well known.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 10:35:45 2019 No.12890343 >>12890288 >he is taken seriously in literature nope >ecology nope >anthropology nope >architecture sparingly >any first rate philosophy he might show up on a pomo lecture session i'll give you that

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 10:47:41 2019 No.12890382 >>12890343 "Yes"

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 10:48:39 2019 No.12890387

>>12888942
>guenon is a non-entity nobody talks about him outside of this board he is a meme
Guenon is fairly well-known and influential in the middle east, in particular in Egypt, Turkey and Iran. He is also well-known among people who study eastern philosophy. He has also been cited as an influence by various public figures ranging from Prince Charles to Steve Bannon, funny enough. Nobody cares about Deleuze except for your token weirdos who have a fetish for commie jews, Guenon is much more influential than him.

http://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/The_Influence_of_Rene_Guenon_in_the_Isla.pdf

>and all his books are just complaining he has no real insight on anything
He elaborated a much more impressive and serious exposition of metaphysics than anything Deleuze ever did. Indeed, compared to Guenon Deleuze's project appears to be a massive failure emanating from Deleuze's alienation and disconnect from any traditional teachings.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 11:05:36 2019 No.12890447 >>12890343 >>12888942 anglos should be annihilated

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 15:43:50 2019 No.12891731 >>12890382 No

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 16:06:11 2019 No.12891847 Deleuze metaphysics are pure

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 16:52:55 2019 No.12892075 File: 3.81 MB, 6161x5009, 1539199840929.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] See: >>22468949

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 17:07:12 2019 No.12892142

There has not been any other man in the history of the modern west who was more erudite in his knowledge of the eastern traditions than Guenon. The Hindu master, Ramana Maharshi, was so impressed by Guenon's teachings that he called him "The Great Sufi." I have never heard of any other westerner who has even come close to Guenon; most westerners are simply seen as well meaning converts at best, or charlatan occultists at worst, never to be equal to someone who was born into the tradition. Guenon's influence upon Evola, Eliade (and thus the Chicago School that developed from him), Nasr, Schuon, and other religious scholars make him arguably the most important religious scholar in modern history. Rare is it that one both writes well and lives well; Guenon did both.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 17:08:57 2019 No.12892154 >>12890387 Deleuze intentionally alienated himself, he viewed tradition as a mimetic virus that kept people from realizing there is no greater truth than the machinic desire.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 17:11:54 2019 No.12892168 >>12888912 I like Deleuze but I’m more of Guenon man myself

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 17:19:05 2019 No.12892205 File: 230 KB, 413x499, unapepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12888912 metaphysics? more like metameme.

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 17:20:32 2019 No.12892211

>>12892154
hence why Deleuze's output consisted of a pseudo-metaphysics deeply steeped in viruses like Freudianism and Marxism

"The case of Freud himself, founder of ‘psychoanalysis’, is quite typical in this respect, for he never ceased to declare himself a materialist. One further remark: why is it that the principal representatives of the new tendencies, like Einstein in physics, Bergson in philosophy, Freud in psychology, and many others of less importance, are almost all of Jewish origin, unless it be because there is something involved that is closely hound up with the ‘malefic’ and dissolving aspect of nomadism when it is deviated, and because that aspect must inevitably predominate in Jews detached from their tradition?"

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 18:56:05 2019 No.12892700 >>12888912 >>12888912 >>12888912 https://www.strawpoll.me/17757017/

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 19:32:49 2019 No.12892893 >>12892075 is there one of these charts for deleuze?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 20:30:33 2019 No.12893132 What would Deleuzian Traditionalism look like?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 20:32:14 2019 No.12893139 >>12893132 there wouldnt be such a thing they have opposite philosophies

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 20:36:00 2019 No.12893158 >>12892142 >filthy muslim convert >'most important scholar of religion'

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 20:42:49 2019 No.12893185 >>12893132 Dugin

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 22:17:16 2019 No.12893591 >>12888912 Guénon achieved heavenly realms of bliss on his death thus was united with God as he uttered his last word which was: "Allah" Deleuze on the other hand thew himself out of window by an act of suicide and is now burning in Hell

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 22:18:20 2019 No.12893596 Guenon is all about the transcendental. Deleuze is about immanence. >>12893158 Islam is closer to the truth

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 22:35:29 2019 No.12893693

Look. Last october i've started a reading club of sorts in my eastern european town. Basic material was some french anthropology and of course debort and some ccru texts as well. The intention was to acclimate to idea of magic, get into basic spectacle defences, explore blockchain meditation and tantric proletariat programming via marxist time sorceries. One of the guys read a little but of this sub but mostly they liked some insights i generated for them. Basically, two stem students and one cat lady went in blind following my advice. Without shadow of a doubt this little project turned out disastrously. One of the guys let's call him K had some strong feelings regarding marxism and was a staunch nationalist (for americans: nation is coded as defence against russian imperialism and marxism is a sour spot in a place where bread should be). He basically intended to use this for political career. Fine by me. Second's name is "D" and he's like a socially retarded peter pan kinda guy with drug problem and brains more than sense. I actually don't know what the fuck was he doing there. Maybe he wanted to be a rockstar or street artist and SI sounded edgy. Fuck him honestly. And the girl is this ugly bipolar 25 yr psychology bachelor with obsession over cat breeds. Call her "S". She's super nice, incredibly intelligent and obviously bonkers. I think she misinterpreted the magic stuff with her blavatsky-slavic-pagan spirituality. Whatever. So we go through this stuff and natural flow takes us to main body of Land's work. And at the same time i had to go live elsewhere in my country. Family stuff. So i leave them with one request not to get too crazy and wait me to read late land. I just wanted to have some peace of mind for a fucking christmas vacation, ok?? Of course they wouldn't listen. S doesn't use internet except emails by the way. At the time of new years eve they stopped responding to my chat messages and i didn't think to call them, I thought that whatever they're doing festivities which means booze where i live. They're probably drunk out of their minds. Actually, no, they're a bunch of mentally ill anxious teenagers in adult bodies. They'd be scared of being slightly out of control. What was i thinking?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 22:41:29 2019 No.12893729 >>12893693 Based methposter

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 22:43:36 2019 No.12893740 >>12893693 Has Land covered Guenon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 22:56:09 2019 No.12893795 File: 55 KB, 400x300, 1528161627555.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12893596 >Islam is closer to the truth says the dirty towel head

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:07:43 2019 No.12893832

>>12893795
stfu you stupid boomer, those "behead those who insult Islam" pictures just show people following a long Abrahamic tradition of violently enforcing dogma which is also illustrated by events like the Christian massacres of the Cathars and Albigensians, or the Jewish tendancy to murder fellow Jewish members of their community who disobeyed the head rabbis of it

Islam is unironically closer to the truth with their emphasis that the Supreme Being is One and undivided, which is what allowed them to have proper metaphysics like Sufism instead of being limited to endless autistic debates about the exact nature of the trinity.

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:13:13 2019 No.12893842

>>12893832
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement -Quran (5:33)

>"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" -Quran (9:30)

>"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing- Quran (2:191-193)

wow so much truth!

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:16:44 2019 No.12893855 File: 32 KB, 387x505, 1554042122554.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12893832 >b-b-but the ancient christian massacres remember them?

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:21:10 2019 No.12893874

>>12893842
All of that is based and red-pilled, Allah revealed Islam to MEN, not a bunch of limp-wristed sissies! If it's too masculine and full of energy for you that's okay but don't project that onto others kiddo. Also, Sufi teachings (which come from the Prophet, and where the real meat and bones of the metaphysics of Islam is) is primarily communicated to initiates via word of mouth; many lines of the Quran and Hadith actually align with and support these teachings once you have an eye for it, but in order to reach this level you need to have both a clarified intellect and a modicum of spirituality, retards like you will not be able to detect them from skimming through the Quran or from copying quotes from it from Zionist websites, it's not all laid out for everyone to see like the Upanishads or the Zhuangzi.

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:21:43 2019 No.12893877

>>12893842
I can't comprehend how someone like Guenon can entertain such barbarity. The quran is by far the most vile piece of text in human history, so many flaws, so many inconsistencies and the least enlightened scripture to any sane mind. What in God's name was he thinking, he should've become a monk or guru in india or something.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:23:06 2019 No.12893881 >>12893855 >it only stopped in the first place because of the west getting overrun by globo-homo-ZOG and all the spooks of modernity

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:28:19 2019 No.12893891 >>12893877 have you read his books? it should be self-apparent why he became a Sufi

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:31:17 2019 No.12893903

>>12893874
>haha based and redpilled my dude!

Narrated 'Aisha (~13 years old): The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

“…two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed…” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 819, Ibn Kathir v.3 p.403)

Allah's Apostle said "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." (Bukhari 49:857)

wow raping and killing so much truth, Islam is truly a beacon of peace

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:32:31 2019 No.12893908 File: 2.75 MB, 1848x5883, 1525540176214.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12893874 guess who joined the chat

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:34:08 2019 No.12893914 >>12888912 Deleuze. Who even talks about Guenon outside of 4channel?

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:37:27 2019 No.12893925

>>12893891
I'd rather not waste my time with some orientalist but I'm guessing he was only interested in the mysticism of the sect. Again he could've just become a pandit in india and enjoyed the full scope of non dualism without the dogmatism of the quran.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:40:21 2019 No.12893934 >>12893908 lmao I kinda guessed it was him, he always shows up in threads that disparage his ideological father figure. At least deleuzefags aren't as delusional as him.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:46:43 2019 No.12893962 >>12893925 Did ya think maybe it was a little bit moronic to say "I can't comprehend why he did X even though I haven't read any of his books which might have explained why".

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:53:13 2019 No.12893988

I used to be another rudderless and morose youth but than I start reading the traditionalists and studying eastern doctrines. Since then it's been a massive shift. I have better posture, body language, I walk and hold myself like I'm home everywhere. You eventually reach a point (if you read enough, give up enough distractions, and put in enough effort) where you are immersed in a blissful cloud 24/7. I wake up and see a ray of light shining into my room and 4 or 5 different metaphysical models of conceiving the immutable godhead play across my mind, I settle on one and joyfully rise. There is no sadness or delusion, but only the ineffable and spotless bliss. It made me stop 95% of electronic media and fiction doesn't even interest me anymore, the very present moment itself a kaleidoscopic enigma of the self-effulgent divinity witnessing itself, how could I ever wish to distract myself with lesser knowledge? Girls especially pick up on this kind of unconscious body language stuff, when you walk into a room or down the street knowing that everything is just the self-manifestation of God overflowing into the world it makes you fearless and radiates power, confidence, presence of mind etc. Girls have been throwing themselves them at me but I only still partake to complement my jnanic practices through tantric sex techniques in combination with Daoist-style semen retention to cultivate Qi and so on. I can't even begin to describe what's this is like, every single moment even when taking a shit is as profound as taking psychedelics. I literally get home, sit down on my couch and remained there for hours in a state of samadhi; this is my last post on 4chan.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:53:28 2019 No.12893990 >>12893925 There is nothing worse than these sort of modern bastardizations of religion that claim you can just pick and choose what you like out of context.

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:58:13 2019 No.12894013
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>>12893158
>arguably the most important religious scholar in modern history
he isn't even on the shortlist of top religious scholarship, and he certainly doesn't stand up to the orientalist giant that is Max Müller. It was Müller, under the tutorship of the great indo-european linguist Franz Bopp (the same guy who conducted the first extensive study of Sanskrit language), that single handedly began Indian studies in the west when he translated tons of important eastern texts and interpreted them clearly and honestly for everyone to see (no mysticism needed).

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 00:05:04 2019 No.12894039

>>12893962
>Did ya think maybe it was a little bit moronic
no it isn't lol, I don't need to read someone's full book just to stumble upon the passage where he explains why he did something so dumb. You could always just tell it to me right now if you know this much.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 01:49:00 2019 No.12894376 >>12893139 who was right?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 01:56:33 2019 No.12894398 >>12894376 I have some disagreements with deleuze but guenon is a literal non-entity deleuze is actually worth reading

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 01:57:35 2019 No.12894402 Does anyone know if Guenon wrote anything on African religions at all??

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 03:19:53 2019 No.12894613 >>12894398 Guenon is widely respected.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 03:40:42 2019 No.12894687 Guenon is not philosophy, so he is disqualified on the principle of that. A better match up would be Heidegger vs Deleuze

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 03:45:35 2019 No.12894697 What is the Traditionalist take on Deleuze's transcendental empiricism? Nobody can really take it on.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 04:00:31 2019 No.12894724

I read Guenon's "Introduction to the Study of Hindu Doctrines" and it made me not want to read any of his other books.
He spends like half the book just doing what all the New-age spirituality hippy books do; complain about how Western are so much worse & more ignorant than the sages of the East. He keeps on harping about how the Greek philosophy copied any worthwhile idea from Hinduism and let's not even speak of modern philosophy.

All of that comes from a point of deep ignorance on his part. Guenon just assumes that Vedanta Hinduism has basically been the doctrine of Hinduism since its beginning and any worthwhile metaphysical idea must obviously derive from it. Basically an argumentation on par with Baptists telling you about the Trail of Blood and how their exact doctrine has existed all along.
Any criticism of his fairly un-scholarly view, he just hand-waves away in a way that sounds more like an angry shitpost than a serious response.

I honestly hope that when I eventually get around to Deleuze he is going to be more insightful than this dilettante.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 07:21:37 2019 No.12895238 >>12894687 He's more of a philosopher than Deleuze (not that I would say Deleuze would enjoy being called a philosopher...)

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 07:37:18 2019 No.12895293

>>12894724
>Vedanta Hinduism has basically been the doctrine of Hinduism since its beginning and any worthwhile metaphysical idea must obviously derive from it.

It's demonstrably true though that non-dualism/panentheism (which came to be grouped under Vedanta) was present in Hinduism from the very beginning, there are passages from the Vedas which contain those sorts of ideas, for example

the Rig-Veda (X:90: 1-5)

All this is He—what has been and what shall be. He is the Lord of
immortality. Though He has become all this, in reality He is not all
this. For truly, He is beyond the world. The whole series of
universes—past, present, and future—express His glory and power;
but He transcends His own glory. All beings of the universe form, as
it were, only a portion of His being; the greater part is invisible and
unchangeable. He who is beyond all predicates appears as the
relative universe; He appears as all sentient and insentient beings

The basic premise of Advaita is delineated in this verse found in Hinduism's oldest scripture.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:05:19 2019 No.12895371

>>12895293
buddy the rig veda is mostly pantheon worship, not too dissimilar from the greek/roman/norse counterpart (of which they derived from the same root religion). You might get a few verses that may contain some metaphysical substance but really the people that performed these formulas in rituals did not have non-dualistic or panentheistic allusions in mind. They simply lauded the devas for fortune and glory.

Also the verse you posted (Purusha Sukta) is a known interpolation, it was never in the original rig veda. So it doesn't really add to your suggestion that it was present 'from the very beginning'.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:13:48 2019 No.12895391 >>12889737 Objectively untrue.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:18:16 2019 No.12895398

>>12895371
>You might get a few verses that may contain some metaphysical substance but really the people that performed these formulas in rituals did not have non-dualistic or panentheistic
You have no idea of whether that's true though, that's an ad-hoc justification you're making to support your pre-drawn conclusion, saying that "He appears as all inanimate and animate beings" is pretty explicit, yes not every Vedic priest would have focused on those lines and panentheistic teachings were probably not the centerpeice of every ritual but it's clear that those ideas were present and that whoever made those verses was well-aware of non-dualism/panentheistic ideas.

>Also the verse you posted (Purusha Sukta) is a known interpolation, it was never in the original rig veda.
This is simply not true, you should know better than to post hypothesis as fact. Nobody knows whether the Purusha Sukta was part of the original text or not, western academics just suppose it is because it's a little more refined than other parts of the Rig-Veda, but this itself does not prove anything. The idea that the Purusha Sukta was not part of the original text remains an unproved hypothesis, it's dishonest of you to present it as proven fact.

>B. V. Kamesvara Aiyar, another 19th-century scholar, on the other hand, disputed this idea:[8]
>The language of this hymn is particularly sweet, rhythmical and polished and this has led to its being regarded as the product of a later age when the capabilities of the language had been developed. But the polish may be due to the artistic skill of the particular author, to the nature of the subject and to several other causes than mere posteriority in time. We might as well say that Chaucer must have lived centuries after Gower, because the language of the former is so refined and that of the latter, so rugged. We must at the same time confess that we are unable to discover any distinct linguistic peculiarity in the hymn which will stamp it as of a later origin.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:34:01 2019 No.12895447

>>12895398
>You have no idea of whether that's true though, that's an ad-hoc justification you're making to support your pre-drawn conclusion
and you're making a post-hoc justification just like any vedantist would make. If the rig veda truly did support the types of metaphysical claims you espouse, surely you would not have a 99 to 1 ratio of devotional verses against purely metaphysical verses.

>Nobody knows whether the Purusha Sukta was part of the original text or not
then why are you posting as if it's true that it was part of the original text? Your basic premise of Advaita being delineated in the verse would then be in doubt wouldn't it?

And It's not just western academics that have noticed the peculiarity of this verse in terms of content, grammar and inconsistency compared to all of rig veda. Instead of cherry picking a single author in that wikipedia entry, go ahead and scroll down at the 'modern scholarship' and notice V. Nagarajan who claimed to have been a later interpolation.

Talk about dishonesty lol...

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:38:44 2019 No.12895463 Simply tell the people to hate and they will do it >Tell people to hate commies >They hate them more than anything >Oh now hate Muslims >Hate Muslims more than anything Boomers are honestly brainwashed in an sublime way

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:47:25 2019 No.12895487 >>12895463 >Tell people to hate capitalist pigs >They hate them more than anything >Oh now hate Kuffars >Hate infidels more than anything

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:48:48 2019 No.12895491 >>12895463 quite hard not to hate those who aspire to subjugate me under the tip of a barrel. Communists and Muslims are parasites in that respect.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:53:52 2019 No.12895504

>>12895447
There are a good amount of other verses with metaphysical significance as well, Coomaraswamy's books on the subject do a good job of examining all them and point them out, if you truly are curious about this you can find them in his books.
>then why are you posting as if it's true that it was part of the original text?
Because it's included as part of the Rig-Veda! Are you really this dull? In the absence of any solid proof for the later interpolation hypothesis, the text should by default be taken at face value. The copies of the Rig-Veda that survive down to today have the Purusha Sukta included in them. Just because some people have raised doubts about whether the Purusha Sukta was originally part of it does not mean that view is the standard one. That's like saying because some people think Shakespeare didn't actually write his works therefore we shouldn't say that he wrote them because we don't 'know' that he did. I don't have to try to prove that the Purusha Sukta was part of the text because it's already included as part of it, the idea that it isn't remains an unproved hypothesis. The two views are not on an equal footing. Until it is proven that the Purusha Sukta was not in the original text, the default position is that it was.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:27:47 2019 No.12895617

>>12895504
>There are a good amount of other verses with metaphysical significance as well
and it is found in a sea of verses that is just your basic nature-god worship. Again the probability should fall on your side but it doesn't.

>Because it's included as part of the Rig-Veda!
yea its included, as a later fabrication. That is beside the point. You made a claim that debunked your basic premise.

>In the absence of any solid proof for the later interpolation hypothesis, the text should by default be taken at face value
that literally makes no sense at all especially when your premise relies on the historicity of the particular verse in question. You are basically saying 'well no one really knows but lets assume we do'. This is brainlet thinking. One does not simply take the bible for example as being 6000 years old just because there are dates tracing back to Adam. If we really didn't know, it is more logical to say 'we don't know therefore we cannot assume such and such'. But if you did that your argument would fall apart wouldn't it, therefore you cannot tread this line of reasoning.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:36:57 2019 No.12895644
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>>12893832
>autistic debates about the exact nature of the trinity
The nature of the living God is important. And heretics need to be corrected.

Autistic debates about hindu 'absolute', the greek monad or Allah are less fruitful, since they are mere abstractions.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:39:01 2019 No.12895645 >>12895487 Cringe

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:39:08 2019 No.12895646 >>12895644 retard

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:45:17 2019 No.12895660 >>12895646 No.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:46:31 2019 No.12895663 >>12888912 Deleuze and Guenon weren't doing the same thing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:47:33 2019 No.12895669 >>12888942 lol look at the buttblast

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 09:56:29 2019 No.12895705 >>12894613 I have never heard his name outside of 4chan and it seems that islamaboo larpers and poltards are the only ones that read him

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:02:41 2019 No.12895733 >>12895705 It's true, he's not widely read by wine-aunts or transexuals or marxists or globohomos or nihilist or greco-hedonist porn enthusiasts, so he must be dubious and probably toxic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:03:42 2019 No.12895738 >>12895733 transhumanists hate him!

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:04:06 2019 No.12895740 >>12895733 or anybody with a high iq

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:04:49 2019 No.12895741 >>12895733 Based

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:10:02 2019 No.12895761 >>12895740 nah that's deleuze

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:12:21 2019 No.12895770 >>12895740 He influenced: Mircea Eliade Frithjof Schuon Michel Valsan Hossein Nasr Marco Pallis Huston Smith Olavo de Carvalho Mateus Soares de Azevedo Ananda Coomaraswamy Martin Lings

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:13:43 2019 No.12895780 >>12895770 so nobodies, gotcha

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:18:38 2019 No.12895803 >>12895780 You're just poorly read, happens a lot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 10:38:01 2019 No.12895914 >>12888912 Guenon

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 11:31:52 2019 No.12896152

>>12895617
>and it is found in a sea of verses that is just your basic nature-god worship.
There is no reason why they need to be the dominant theme of the Rig-Veda or why they both can't be in it
>yea its included, as a later fabrication.
Again, you allege this but there is no solid proof
>You made a claim that debunked your basic premise.
No I didn't because in order for that to debunk my premise the unproven hypothesis would have to be true but that hypothesis has not yet been proven, so I am still in the right

It seems clear that you are both an Anglo and are involved in academia, two groups that Guenon skewers relentlessly and unmercifully throughout his works, and that your disagreement with him probably stems mainly from this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 11:33:27 2019 No.12896156 >>12895733 kek

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:05:18 2019 No.12896293

>>12896152
>There is no reason why they need to be the dominant theme of the Rig-Veda or why they both can't be in it
I mean if the whole point of the rig veda is deva worship, then where is the lucidity of the vedanta in that? The Indians were either autistic enough to intepret it that way or its a later development outside of vedic brahmanism.

>Again, you allege this but there is no solid proof
Are you actually demanding a completely intact rig veda dated to at least 1500 BC? Are you aware that indians didnt even write until 500 BC? Are you aware that because of this, linguistic analysis forms a major part in the dating of these orally passed texts? Surely this has to be bait...

>No I didn't because in order for that to debunk my premise the unproven hypothesis would have to be true but that hypothesis has not yet been proven, so I am still in the right
If its an unproven hypothesis as you claimed, then you are basically assuming that the purusha sukta is 'by default' as old as the rig veda (something which you've affirmed). Then why did you claim that no one, even you, knows the authenticity of this verse? Do you not see how you've had a brain fart here?

>It seems clear that you are both an Anglo and are involved in academia
If it helps im not actually in academia

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:08:05 2019 No.12896311 >>12896293 Bro you are arguing with a Guenon fanatic, there is no way in hell he's going to yeild ever

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:12:39 2019 No.12896337 >>12889737 This is actually surprisingly not true. Deleuze was the 4th most cited writer in 2009 or something. I think i read that somewhere

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:15:35 2019 No.12896352 >>12896337 Yea, you read it in the onion

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:32:23 2019 No.12896444

>>12896293
>I mean if the whole point of the rig veda is deva worship, then where is the lucidity of the vedanta in that?
Because the Rig-Veda was also one of their main 'cultural icons' or epics, with stories about the Gods, war, heroism, even passages some interpret as describing the migration into India. Just because they had some understanding of panentheism is not a reason to throw everything else out. The oral recitation and memorization of the Rig-Veda etc was part of what formed the backbone of the Vedic culture. Vedantic concepts are not at odds with this. You can have a beautiful tapestry of an oral text describing all this different stuff with some portions giving nod to Vedantic concepts. That doesn't make the Gods of the Rig-Veda any less real in their minds. Panentheism is not at all incompatible with the worship of and devotional acts towards Gods thought to be manifestations of the supreme being.
>If its an unproven hypothesis as you claimed, then you are basically assuming that the purusha sukta is 'by default' as old as the rig veda (something which you've affirmed). Then why did you claim that no one, even you, knows the authenticity of this verse?
You seem to be making various mistakes and going in circles so I'll simplify it for you
1) The Purusha Sukta refers to a section of the Rig-Veda
2) Some academics think on the basis on the language that it is a later addition, but this view remains an unproven conjecture
3) Absent any solid proof that a text was inserted later, it is reasonable to assume that any one portion of any text was more or less part of the original until proven otherwise. Otherwise it would be hard to explain how all the written copies of the Rig-Veda that survive in physical form and how all the people passing it down orally all across India all have that section included in their Rig-Veda.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:43:52 2019 No.12896498 >>12889504 Guenon died 10 years before Deleuze wrote anything significant, how did he do this?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:56:45 2019 No.12896546 Just looking at the lists of who they influenced on Wikipedia, I'm going to have to go with Deleuze.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 13:19:41 2019 No.12896653 >>12889737 >>12889746 The Buzzfeed founder himself said that it was all a Deleuzean experiment

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 13:30:51 2019 No.12896698 File: 469 KB, 1626x2162, article 13 boomer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >He still hasn't achieved Atma-Jnana >He still hasn't read the Bhagavad-Gita

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 13:35:26 2019 No.12896718 >>12895780 hahahahaha this board is pathetic Anytime I come across <60iq replies, I tell myself it's an anglo - and it's probably true - to keep my hatred for plebs in check

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 15:30:41 2019 No.12897287 >>12896718 cringe

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:00:01 2019 No.12897428

>>12895770
>Mircea Eliade
Based
>Frithjof Schuon
Held ceremonies in a pair of underpants with a special flap at the front, where he hugged the young female members of the gathering in an avuncular and completely non-sexual fashion
>Martin Lings
Typical Brit public school eccentric wackjob.

Ain't heard of the rest except Coomaraswamy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:08:57 2019 No.12897468 >>12895293 >It's demonstrably true though that non-dualism/panentheism (which came to be grouped under Vedanta) was present in Hinduism from the very beginning Where else in the RV?

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:16:24 2019 No.12897795

>>12897468

"The Solar Self of all that is in motion or at rest" - (Rig-Veda I.115.1)
"One god indwelling the mind, of old was he born and is even now in the womb" - (Arthava-Veda X.8.28.)
"To thee who art of old these songs, O Agni, have I declared, the ancient and the later. These great libations to the Strong are offered: in every birth is Jatavedas (Agni) established - (Rig-Veda III.1.20)
"Filling the light-realms of this, the mobile and the immobile, he cometh manifoldly into being, the Sire, in these wombs" - (Rig-Veda I.146.5)
"He is the counterform of every form, it is that form of His that we should look upon; Indra, by virtue of His magic powers proceeds as multiform" - (Rig-Veda VI.47.18)

Coomaraswamy has a really good book on this topic called "Perception of the Vedas". According to him, which he documents with extensive citations from every layer of the 4 Vedas; panentheistic/non-dualistic ideas are pretty much poetically expressed all throughout the 4 Vedas and their layers like the aranyakas, brahmanas, etc, the Upanishads just being a consolidating and making explicit/direct what was already implied in the earlier texts. This makes a lot of sense actually because it seems more far-fetched that some texts similar to Plotinus could have randomly appeared attached to some simple ritual/prayer texts if there wasn't some basis for the ideas in them in the earlier material.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:41:25 2019 No.12897941 >>12897795 Thanks for that. Do you have any advice re: translations?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:42:53 2019 No.12897950 >>12897795 Whose translations are the above and in >>12895293 ?

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 18:51:21 2019 No.12898350

It takes a special kind of stupid to ingest Rene Guenon.

Imagine a creature somewhere between a David Icke aficionado and a MENSA know-it-all who pines for civilizational collapse and you'd get pretty close. His thesis, and that of those who follow, is roughly the following: Life is terrible, but it used to be awesome. It will be awesome again once all the bad stuff goes away, which it will. When it's awesome again, it'll be because snowflakes like YOU, the reader of this magnificent tome, will have kept the flame alive.

If you are lucky enough to be of the right caste, you'd know that all REAL religion came from the Hyperborean wastes and that what we are left with is a pale imitation of the original. In fact, nothing that exists right now is anything other than a pale reflection---sorry, a shadow on a cave wall---of the real TRUTH. And just what is this truth? Yes, well. Wouldn't you like to know? Wouldn't we all? Alas! We, the poor sods of the Kali Yuga, do not have access to such Truths. No. All we have is the Altogether Mystically Certain East, sole sustainer of the Truth, which just wants to be left alone. (The work has not aged well.)

There are metaphysical certainties, friends. Yes. And the Golden Age will once again dawn once this corrupt epoch is behind us. Yes. But what a Golden Age looks like or what the metaphysical certainties are is totally irrelevant. Asking such questions, in fact, would peg you as a materialist, the surest sign of degeneracy.

But this book, which takes incredible pains to say exactly nothing, is not, somehow, a degenerate product of the Kali Yuga. Rene Guenon is definitely not a modern; after all, he converted to Sufism IN CAIRO, and was definitely not a degenerate. Did you know he lived in austere conditions IN CAIRO? Would a modern live IN AUSTERE CONDITIONS IN CAIRO?! Of course they would not. Rene Guenon, therefore, is the torch bearer of a truth so secret, so metaphysical, so timeless, that it cannot, NAY SHOULD NOT, be written down. If you read his ouvre, ouroborean in its self-regard, you will be constantly reminded of just how impressive Truth is without any hint of what it actually looks like.

If that sounds like a nice way to spend an afternoon, by all means-proceed.

For any sane human being who does not wait with bated breath for the cataclysm, stay very, very, very far away.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 18:53:49 2019 No.12898368 >>12898350 Cringe

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:11:03 2019 No.12898459

>>12896444
>Because the Rig-Veda was ...[sic]
That didnt answer my question. Im saying where exactly is the line between deva worship and non dualist vedanta. You seem to be suggesting that they already held metaphysical views in line with later indian traditions but that they just chose not to explicitly expose it in their text and expected their descendants to pick up on it. Don't ya think thats kinda of reaching?

>You seem to be making various mistakes and going in circles so I'll simplify it for you
You're just repeating the conversation while omitting your mistake. There is no point to 'reasonably assume' anything when you have already conceded that 'no one knows really', your basic premise would then hinge on an assumption. Why is this hard to grasp?

Sorry for late response btw you caught me at the worst time

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:15:00 2019 No.12898483 >>12898350 Based

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:19:52 2019 No.12898509 Ibn Arabi is my teacher

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:26:22 2019 No.12898542 >>12898350 Enjoyed this post. Never read Guenon. Will give him a go soon.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:30:49 2019 No.12898572

>>12897941
Unfortunately most of the English-language translations of the Vedas are all plagued by various issues, there have not been many unabridged 'present them as it is' translations by qualified experts of all 4 of the Vedas.. The Jamison and Brereton translation is the most recent high-quality translation of the Rig-Veda done by experts but is expensive. Kashyap's and Debroy's translations have their own serious problems. I would probably recommend the Jamison and Brereton one for the Rig-Veda and either Griffith or Saraswati/Vidyalanker for the other 3 Vedas.
>>12897950
The shorter verses from above are all Coomaraswamy's translations I believe (he never published Veda translations though), I compared some of them to what appears to be Griffith's translations on this website below and they seem accurate. The longer translation from the 1st post I'm not sure who its by, I've found it on multiple websites but none of them list the source. It's generally matches the version found in Griffiths albiet a much more polished one so it had to have come from somewhere.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/vedaindex.asp

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:35:14 2019 No.12898605 >>12898572 OK, cool. Thank you for that anon that is helpful. Have found a copy of Jamison Brereton so will use that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:45:27 2019 No.12898671 What Guenon book do I read after Crisis of Modern World, reign of quantity, and intro to hindu doctrines? I am interested in his metaphysical works.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:54:43 2019 No.12898716 >>12898671 >>12892075

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 19:57:33 2019 No.12898723 >>12898716 Yeah I've seen the chart, I guess I was wondering if I could skip some of the symbolism/initiatory works and get right to his metaphysics.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 20:08:44 2019 No.12898767

>>12898723
His 'big 3' works of straight metaphysics are 'Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta', 'Symbolism of the Cross' and 'Multiple States of the Being'. I would recommend reading them in that order, for among other reasons because that's the chronological order they were published in. 'Symbols of Sacred Science' is also a major metaphysical work but centers around various symbols, iconography etc whereas the previous 3 are just undiluted metaphysics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 20:10:32 2019 No.12898771 >>12898767 to add, it's okay to skip his symbolism/initiation works so long as you've already read a few of his earlier works which you already have

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 20:13:02 2019 No.12898787 >>12898767 >>12898771 Thank you fren

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 20:30:37 2019 No.12898901 >>12889737 Maybe not "nobody" but you're right that /lit/ shouldn't be taken as a standard for Deleuze's (ir-)relevance in the real world.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 8 02:36:31 2019 No.12900349 deleuze

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 8 09:29:53 2019 No.12901427 >>12892893 I need that too and I would be very grateful anons please

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 8 10:07:57 2019 No.12901525 >>12892154 Can you define machinic desire for me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 8 10:13:01 2019 No.12901540 >>12888942 >>12889737 Why would you care whether other people have read some author? Make up your own mind.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 8 15:01:31 2019 No.12902861 >>12901525 No

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/lit/ - Literature