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/lit/ - Literature

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12866256 No.12866256 [Reply] [Original]

>excessive admiration of Shakespeare.

This cult of shakespeare is bizarre. The worship is too exaggerated. I feel like everyone has been brainwashed into thinking this guy was some kind of untouchable god of writing.

>> No.12866257

>>12866256
he is pretty good though

>> No.12866259

Excuse me? You're talking about the man that invented the human.

>> No.12866289

>>12866256
t. first year literature studies student.

>> No.12866344

>>12866256
Name someone who comes close

>> No.12866350

>>12866344
anne hathaway

>> No.12866354

>>12866350
Not for the last half of their life. She was sleeping with other men.

>> No.12866355

Does any non english speaking country teaches Shakespeare at school?

>> No.12866694

>>12866355
Yes

>> No.12866769

>>12866354
And the cuckoldry did make him cuckoo for at time.

>> No.12866792

>>12866256
One can worship intellectual beauty and still have a sense of proportion about it, since there are other kinds of beauty, which the Romantics celebrated. I take him faults and all, but still recognize him as the best of his kind, which is hardly a wash.

>> No.12866797

Autofellating is the signature trade of the *nglo

>> No.12866803
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12866803

>>12866355
Shakespeare is adored even in East Asia.

>>12866256
He's not viewed as an ontouchable God of writing though. Critics and enthusiasts agree that some of his plays are a bit patchy, for instance, Titus Andronicus and some other early plays are not viewed as being "great" works of fiction at all.

The reason Shakespeare is showered with praise is because of just how many great works he made. Most classics under his belt, e.g. Tolstoy, but Shakespeare has 6 or 7.

>> No.12866808

>>12866803
Correction:
>Most classic writers have only 1 or 2 masterpieces under their belts, e.g. Tolstoy, but Shakespeare has 6 or 7

>> No.12866817

I agree, but good lucky convincing anyone here of that.

Shakespeare *was* one of the four or five greatest dramatists to have ever lived, which makes the Bardolater's case much easier, since all he has to do is keep inventing reasons and reasons for Shakespeare's greatness. Thus, it's not as if he had to directly lie. However, the same reasons he points out (metaphor, complex characters, meta-literary techniques, and so on) can be said about any other such great dramatist, any other such great poet. How many reasons can one give for Dante's superiority? How many for Homer?

Thus, Harold Bloom gives us one reason: Shakespeare invented the human. Of course that's bogus, but if you criticize him he just has to point out to a bunch of truly interesting and innovative views of Shakespeare about human natural and he will be right in his substantive analysis of Shakespeare - but at the same time wrong at the comparative one, because, much before the Bard, Saint Augustine had analyzed human nature with a similarly deep, similarly new and similarly genial acuity; and so had Plato, in my view.

A lot of his fame comes from circumstantial reasons: the dominance of the English language (thus, everyone reads Shakespeare in the original, but very few people read Dante, Calderón, Virgil, Homer, Sophocles, Plato); the fact that his prominence came in a time when high culture was at a high, namely the 19th century, which means Goethe, Beethoven, Wagner and others were all highly influenced by him; and, finally, the fact that a very high number of top critics wrote a lot about him, which has to do with the prominence of literary criticism and Literary studies in English-speaking countries when compared to other nations - it's easy to keep Bardolatry alive when someone with Harold Bloom's intellect is still defending it.

>> No.12866820

Reminder that Shakespeare wrote the equivalent of Games of Thrones or Marvel movies for his time - cheap, violent, pleb-appealing sensationalist plays. You now realise that centuries from now, popculture garbage of today will be revered as incredible masterpieces, studied and worshipped and have papers written about them.

>> No.12866822

>>12866803
>The reason Shakespeare is showered with praise is because of just how many great works he made. Most classics under his belt, e.g. Tolstoy, but Shakespeare has 6 or 7.

I am >>12866817 and have a much better view of Shakespeare than you have: I agree with Harold Bloom that the Bard has at least some 30 or so masterpieces (perhaps less, perhaps some 20-25).

The thing is that he was a playwright, and plays come much faster than, say, epic poems, since there is a lot of space for uselessness, in order to fill the blanks between the high poetic moments. However, many other playwrights also wrote very high number of masterpieces, and I have never read a single Greek play - except some two or three by Euripides - that I wouldn't honor with the name of masterpiece.

>> No.12866832

Just found this stat:

884,421 total words in Shakespeare's 43 works.


101.698 in Dante's Commedia (excluding the Vita Nuova and other books).

Thus, in order for Dante to be a greater writer, one Dante word should be worthy of eight Shakespeare words.

I believe it's more. There are entire plays by Shakespeare which are worth very little. Titus Andronicus is the main complain, but I believe even Julius Caesar to be a pretty average historical drama, and, though there are some moments of greatness in it, it's surely much inferior to Racine, surely much inferior to Milton's Sansom Agonistes.

>> No.12866851

>>12866832
Art isn't fucking stock exchange

>> No.12866867

>>12866851
I know, but it isn't French philosophy either. There are some rules, some necessities.

If Shakespeare wrote more, than Dante's superiority would have to be based on the superiority of his writing over Shakespeare's writing, which means a very precise thing: more concise good lines, less mediocre lines. Both were achieved by Dante, in my view, which is why I deem him better than Shakespeare.

>> No.12866870
File: 210 KB, 576x566, 8Mnhhg5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12866870

>>12866822
Good points, and I see what you mean about how easy -- for better or worse -- it is to just shower praise on him.

I can't even name 30 of Shakespeare's works, to be honest, but even so I can't imagine how 30 of them could be timeless masterpieces. I say this because even some of his "great plays" like Romeo & Juliet I found nauseating at times, particularly a lot of the love poetry.

>> No.12866931

>>12866832
and my diary desu has 1,000,000 words

>> No.12866940

>>12866870
>I found nauseating at times, particularly a lot of the love poetry
found the incel

>> No.12866961

>>12866931
All of which, I presume, carry no literary charge whatsoever.

>> No.12866963

>>12866256

In pop culture people like having absolute bests for some reason. Shakespeare just happens to be one for writing. He's obviously pretty great, but him being chosen to fit the "absolute pinnacle of greatness" in his field is pretty random I would say. Its a pretty common thing. Einstein is the king of science. George Clooney is the king of being handsome. George Washington is the king of being President of the US.

>> No.12866978

>>12866256

wrong.

whats ur prob?
.
fyi, if you cant read the orgin lingo,

then you cant judge the lit,

as w/ dante & english-only speakers
.

that aside, no one will ever out-write WS.

i'm born in the USA, native US English speaker

>> No.12866987

>>12866355

all over the world.

" to be or not to be "

"by indirections, made directions out"

" et tu? ! "

>> No.12866989

>>12866820
this opinion should be met with public execution tbqh

>> No.12866991

>>12866792

what faults?

>> No.12867017

I preach Bardolatry as the most benign of all religions

>> No.12867024

>>12866256
>This cult of shakespeare is bizarre
not really. have you read Shakespeare? he is quite good.

>> No.12867198

>>12866991
Some of his earlier plays, such as The Two Gentlemen of Verona, a rather lame apprentice-piece, and Titus Andronicus, a grotesque and unfunny over-the-top (or shall I say under-the-bottom) parody of Marlowe's manner at staging violence, aren't so good. No one succeeds at everything they attempt, and some things are better abandoned.

>> No.12867591

>>12866832
This is the worst post in this thread

>> No.12867597

>>12866355
They teach it in highschool in Romania.

>> No.12867598

>>12866820
This

>> No.12867604

>>12866257
Sure, but I don't understand how anyone can get away with calling him the supreme English poet when we have Chaucer, Spenser, and Milton.

>> No.12867715

>>12866256
have you tried reading him?

>> No.12867727

>>12866820
When uncle Tolstoy's retarded nephew strings up his bait, Rosalind appears with scissors.

>> No.12867732

>>12867597
Yeah, right faggot. The only thing they teach you in Romania is that stupid sleepy birds poem from Eminescu.

>> No.12867818

>>12866817
This is a very good, logical and concise veiw on the topic in my mind.

>> No.12867838

>>12867715
The worship is ridiculous. He is obviously great. I'm talking about the worship not the actual writer. No one is that good.

>> No.12867872

>>12866867
>reads borges once

>> No.12868029
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12868029

>>12866940
Sorry, I don't find longwinded love poetry interesting. I also get bored to death by Ophelia's flower scene, and most adaptions of Shakespeare done in the modern dress are cringeworthy.

>> No.12868424

>>12866256
OP reminds me of that video where some students are talking shit about science because it's colonial and implying some witch doctor in Africa has powers.

>> No.12868454

>>12866817
But Shakespeare wrote at a time when English wasn’t a dominant internationl language, so that’s untrue.

>> No.12868539

>>12866803
>Most classic writers have only 1 or 2 masterpieces under their belts, e.g. Tolstoy, but Shakespeare has 6 or 7

wew

War and peace by the size can be compare to don’t even know how many Shakespeare plays/ Each episode contains the number of letters, writing techniques and details as in the whole play

Shakespear is anglo shit, stop that mem

>> No.12869736

>>12866832
go away

>> No.12869754

>>12866355
I'm Finnish and I read Hamlet in high school

>> No.12869770

>>12869754
But do finnish people consider him to be the greatest?

>> No.12870028

>>12867604
Chaucer I can't comment on because I have a hard time reading it honestly. The other two don't compare to Shakespeare for me, though i do love Spenser. I don't love Milton but I grudgingly accept that Im just wrong about him.

>> No.12870189

>>12869770
I don't think that any specific writer is considered the greatest here. But Shakespeare is taught at school and considered an important writer.

>> No.12870413

>>12866355
Spic here, we did Shakespeare in high school.