/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12860157]

Should I read the discourses of the Buddha?

[Anonymous No.12860170]

if you read the discourses of the budda on your travels russia reads you, there is no try

[Anonymous No.12860404]

i am reading the compilation "in the buddha's words" by bhikku bhodi as i found it was the easiest way to digest the Buddha's ways, i would say it is definitely worth it to check it out, skip what doesn't catch your eye but consider the advice within and try to follow it and it'll help you grow

[Anonymous No.12860406]

>>12860157
You might get bored if you try just read them one after the other. In the Buddha's Words is an anthology, but you could also get a collection of discourses and just read random ones.

[Anonymous No.12861335]

>>12860157

It's a little austere.
Worth checking out to get a feel for what early Buddhist literature was like.
You won't find poetic beauty here though. This book won't suck you in unless you're a peculiar person or a practicing Buddhist.

[Anonymous No.12861348]

>>12860157
Is Bhikkhu Bodhi credible? I've heard warnings against him.

[Anonymous No.12861371]

>>12860157
Don't read entire Nikayas, they're very repetitive and in-depth, you'll get bored if you start with them. Like others have said, In The Buddha's Words is a nice compilation of important sections. Also get Paul Gethin's Sayings of the Buddha for a different compilation.

[Anonymous No.12861376]

>>12860157
Buddhism is evil and self-destructive

[Anonymous No.12861399]

>>12861348
>I've heard warnings against him.

By rival schools?

[Anonymous No.12861405]

>>12861376
Do elaborate. I don't subscribe to its tenets myself, but I wouldn't call it evil. And it seems to survive just fine, so: self-distructive how?

[Anonymous No.12861412]

So, it's "In the Buddha's Words" the best way to know the Pali canon? Everyone recommends it

[Anonymous No.12861444]

>>12861399
Nope, anons on here. They said to "avoid (((Bhikkhu Bodhi)))". The Semitic parenthesis are certainly immature of him, but just wanted to know what he meant in the first place.

[Anonymous No.12861715]

Gautama, Siddhārtha. Dislike him. A cheap nihilist, insipid and foolhardy. A pied piper, pathological narcissist and a cloying moralist. Some of his modern disciples are extraordinarily amusing. Nobody takes his claims about remembering past lives seriously.
Majjhima Nikāya. His best work, though an obvious and shameless imitation of Yājñavalkya's "Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad"
Dīgha Nikāya. Dislike it intensely.
Dhammapada. Dislike it intensely. Ghastly rigmarole.

[Anonymous No.12861728]

>>12861715
Why is moralism bad? I hear people criticize this in literature generally. Why? Morality is the best thing in the world. You have to love everyone, isn't that obvious?

[Anonymous No.12861758]

>>12861444
t. hungry ghost

[Anonymous No.12861776]

>>12861728
There's moralism and morality...

[Anonymous No.12861787]

>>12861758
No, I'm not a hungry ghost. I'm just asking why that anon told me what he did. He's the hungry ghost, if anything.

[Anonymous No.12861791]

>>12861444
People here are idiots. Good luck finding those scriptures in English not by him. Don't listen to people who can't appreciate a thinker on their own merit without putting them either into their own camp or some opposing enemy one. There's a lot of mahayanafags and theravadafags and vedafags and guenonfags who do so quite often. Just ignore them. Read widely. Read deeply.

[Anonymous No.12861816]

>>12861791
Dang, I really hoped that based Buddhism wouldn't be a battleground of such a kind, with all the different denominations in ideological war with eachother. That's not based at all. I don't want to become tribalistic for pursuing this path.

[Anonymous No.12861833]

>>12861816
buddhists have been really nasty when they have been in power, they haven't been often in power luckily for the people surrounding them

[Anonymous No.12861863]

>>12861776
I'm not clued in to the difference. All I know is that you have to love everyone and be kind to everyone and forgive everyone if they hurt you and make everyone's lives easier here during our sojourn on Earth. And anyone who writes books stating such things is a Good soul and they deserve to be praised and hugged.

[Anonymous No.12861872]

>>12861833
Why can't everyone be like Gautama? Wasn't he above all these behaviors that his supposed followers embody?

[Anonymous No.12861884]

>>12861872
i think he said the dharma would last like 1000 years before becoming corrupt, but then they decided to teach it to women and he said it would be only 500, not sure how long it's been

[Anonymous No.12861893]

>>12861863
Souls aren't real. This sojourn is all we have. Some people can't be saved and shouldn't be forgiven. Some people preach love but behave with hate. Or only love themselves and those that look like them and support brutal military intervention against people who look different.

[Anonymous No.12861898]

>>12861791
Is the sectarian warfare as bad as that found within Christianity?

[Anonymous No.12861992]

>>12861898
It's more civilized. They prefer to debate philosophically why they are right and everyone else is wrong. Sadly, they often do so more than they actually meditate or practice loving kindness.

[Anonymous No.12862095]

>>12861992
Dang. Is this typically found online or in person as well? But I agree about the last part, the practise and ethics are far more important than the specifics of the metaphysics or so on. Sad.

[Anonymous No.12862210]

>>12862095
I've met some good teachers in my area. But I live in a hippie dippie place. It's a human thing. Your teachers are human. Enlightenment is a continuum to infinity. Even the Buddha probably wasn't as enlightened as people make out or the be all end all.

[Anonymous No.12862213]

>>12862095
>Is this typically found online
Yes it is, without accusing the majority or most of Buddhist posters on 4chan of doing this there is a noticeable minority of them who are incredibly insufferable and haughty and who feel the need to constantly come into threads about other religions/philosophy to post "lol all this is wrong enjoy your suffering etc" and similar sentiments.

[Anonymous No.12862281]

>>12860157
I would start with the Long Discourses / Digha Nikaya.

For starters the title of the collection you posted Majjhima Nikaya / Middle Discourses is misleading a sense. The MN is one of the longer sutta collections (over 1500 pages and ~200 suttas). As an introduction it is likely to bore/confuse/overwhelm you. DN is a better introduction and less repetitive (around 700 pages and ~40), though the individual suttas are longer, hence the name. So I would start with that, reading perhaps 1-2 suttas a day and if you find it agreeable go on to the MN.

Regardless of whatever sectarian interpretation you eventually arrive at I think it is good to start with the earliest texts since all the later commentaries and commentaries on commentaries are going to make their way back to the original ideas.

[Anonymous No.12862341]

>>12860157
>>12861348
>>12861399
>>12861412
>>12861444
>>12861791
If you're really that skeptical of Bhikkhu Bodhi for whatever reasons valid or immature, you can always read other translations of the suttas and compare them to eachother:
http://obo.genaud.net/backmatter/indexes/sutta/sutta_toc.htm
IMO Bodhi is good for most suttas but can be a bit inept when it comes to some of the deeper concepts
>>12861816
Sectarianism is baloney, there is wisdom to be found in all the sects, just compare them to the suttas and ignore the stuff that contradicts them. For example: the Diamond Sutra and the Platform Sutra are consistent with the earliest teachings and are not from Theravada (though again, I recommend getting a decent understanding of the teachings of the Pali Canon, which is completely internally consistent, before moving onto the later works which assume a basic understanding of the early texts)

[Anonymous No.12862351]

>>12862281
>>I would start with the Long Discourses / Digha Nikaya.
On the contrary, that's a big mistake to begin with DN. Dn are for brahmins at best and they are too long and copies of shorter and earlier texts.


People must begin with short collections of short texts, which can be read in any order. So it goes with Sutta nipata, chapter 4 and 5, then chapter 1, 2, 3, dhammapada, MN, SN and AN in any order, then DN or better than DN, vinaya. There is really zero interest for DN.

And instead of reading, there are also, mp3 or mp4 which breaks the rut.

https://bodhimonastery.org/online-dharma-lectures
https://www.paliaudio.com/

[Zosimos !oXKxF8G2qo No.12862364]

>>12860157

Maybe see what the Buddha would say about it:

>Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.

[Anonymous No.12862366]

>>12861816
>>12862341
for more non-Theravada stuff that is consistent with the Pali Canon, check out the works (after familiarization with the PC) of: Āryadeva, Buddhapālita, Dignāga, Vasubandhu

[Anonymous No.12862380]

>>12862364
Although this discourse is often cited as the Buddha's carte blanche for following one's own sense of right and wrong, it actually says something much more rigorous than that. Traditions are not to be followed simply because they are traditions. Reports (such as historical accounts or news) are not to be followed simply because the source seems reliable. One's own preferences are not to be followed simply because they seem logical or resonate with one's feelings. Instead, any view or belief must be tested by the results it yields when put into practice; and — to guard against the possibility of any bias or limitations in one's understanding of those results — they must further be checked against the experience of people who are wise. The ability to question and test one's beliefs in an appropriate way is called appropriate attention. The ability to recognize and choose wise people as mentors is called having admirable friends. According to Iti 16-17, these are, respectively, the most important internal and external factors for attaining the goal of the practice. For further thoughts on how to test a belief in practice, see MN 61, MN 95, AN 7.79, and AN 8.53. For thoughts on how to judge whether another person is wise, see MN 110, AN 4.192, and AN 8.54.

[Anonymous No.12862385]

>>12860404
>(((Bhikku Bodhi)))

[Anonymous No.12862406]

>>12862364
>Although this discourse is often cited as the Buddha's carte blanche for following one's own sense of right and wrong, it actually says something much more rigorous than that. Traditions are not to be followed simply because they are traditions. Reports (such as historical accounts or news) are not to be followed simply because the source seems reliable. One's own preferences are not to be followed simply because they seem logical or resonate with one's feelings. Instead, any view or belief must be tested by the results it yields when put into practice; and — to guard against the possibility of any bias or limitations in one's understanding of those results — they must further be checked against the experience of people who are wise. The ability to question and test one's beliefs in an appropriate way is called appropriate attention. The ability to recognize and choose wise people as mentors is called having admirable friends. According to Iti 16-17, these are, respectively, the most important internal and external factors for attaining the goal of the practice. For further thoughts on how to test a belief in practice, see MN 61, MN 95, AN 7.79, and AN 8.53. For thoughts on how to judge whether another person is wise, see MN 110, AN 4.192, and AN 8.54.
Basically, pseuds like to cite that sutta and say "DUDE THE BUDDHA SAID DONT EVEN LISTEN TO HIM, AND TO JUST FOLLOW OUR CURRENT SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG, AND TO PICK AT HIS TEACHINGS LIKE A BUFFET, TAKING WHAT SOUNDS NICE TO OUR MIND AND LEAVING OUT THE STUFF THAT DOESN'T SOUND NICE/DOESN'T PRODUCE A PLEASANT REACTION IN THE MIND LMAO"
Don't be like that

[Anonymous No.12862439]

>>12861884
Source?

[Anonymous No.12862441]

>>12862351
>DN are for brahmins at best

Not sure if this means I should feel bigbrained or that I'm a pseud. Though perhaps the ultimate truth is that I am neither bigbrained nor a pseud.

[Anonymous No.12862467]

DN=for conversion of brahmins
MN=summary of the teaching for newcomers
SN=for exegetes
AN=for monks to teach the householders

Here is the audiobook In the Buddha's Words: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon
IntheBuddhasWordsPart1_ep6_AMCUBGOyJO4Fz4dflKPM0PIBFb09U0Oo_ZkSMGec3L3_Ri37pJDThuA_tTZkKw.mp3
https://www110.zippyshare.com/v/vYfoMYCo/file.html
IntheBuddhasWordsPart2_ep6_6JYs0dMrEzXyApSLUkCVRR_g0tCwYA15BFbn_7R1bDtwhMyuPbbmlL3E3dZemA.mp3
https://www110.zippyshare.com/v/VNneVAPs/file.html
IntheBuddhasWordsPart3_ep6_1H3PqRMNI-0Ovj5KT7avvGlYGSppP3bz_XQF5nxLFygVkxP6l1K4jBkzVgGjhQ.mp3
https://www110.zippyshare.com/v/5BHkBJjW/file.html

[Anonymous No.12863366]

>>12862351
I read DN was intended more for gaining converts. The MN and texts in the Khuddaka Nikaya would be the meat and potatoes of the suttas.

[Anonymous No.12863413]

I found these videos a few years ago of DN readings with a former Mahayana monk turned who now leads a type of reformed Theravada monastery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilMCTfl715Q&list=PL666302C04BB88C62

[Anonymous No.12863421]

I found these videos a few years ago of DN readings with a former Mahayana monk who now leads a type of reformed Theravada monastery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilMCTfl715Q&list=PL666302C04BB88C62

[Anonymous No.12863634]

>>12861376
B8 but I would categorize Buddhism, Christianity and Islam as more ascetic faiths while paganism, animism, and shamanism along with temple period Judaism as communal ritual traditions. The latter would be the more 'worldly' or hedonic of the two. Of course there might be some overlap but that could be a way to conveniently group them.

[Anonymous No.12863657]

Can someone explain the "Buddhism is life denying" meme to me?

[Anonymous No.12863836]

>>12863657
Buddhism considers worldly desires (for sensual pleasure, fame, praise, gain...etc) to be inherently rooted in delusion, in not seeing things as they truly are. It also considers the attainment of these things as ultimately unsatisfactory.
A lot of people on this board (especially those who think they're an ubermensch who is going to change the world with their writing and have all the riches and women they want) would consider that life denying. People want their desires to be valid/important, and want to believe that the attainment of what they desire leads to true lasting happiness. These people would likely call Buddhism life-denying.
Ironically, I find similarities between amor fati and Buddhism's practical guidelines towards establishing equanimity towards all preparations, though I would call Buddhist equanimity a very real and attainable state beyond conception whereas I understand amor fati to be a more conceptual/intellectual stance towards life.

[Anonymous No.12863943]

>>12863657
Oh yea and the first noble truth is that existence/life is inherently and ultimately unsatisfactory (dukkha).
One might find themselves agreeing with this on an intellectual level (ex. they feel like they see a lot of suffering inherent to existence, such as aging, loss and death) but this also (perhaps primarily) refers to a VERY subtle mental process which produces unnecessary suffering + tension in response to all experience, through desire, aversion, self/I-making. This more subtle aspect of the first noble truth can only be known through insight meditation.