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/lit/ - Literature

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1283105 No.1283105 [Reply] [Original]

Why are so many people content with the fact that life is meaningless?
That nothing you do can ever mean anything?
That we are simply animals?
That free will is nonexistent if we don't get into quantum mechanics where its probabilistic which isn't much better?

I think about it all the damn time as I'm sure a lot of people do but how do you find the strength and courage to pretend like their is some purpose?

>> No.1283113

>Why are so many people content with the fact that life is meaningless?
They stop thinking about it, and do or think about something else to keep themselves entertained.

>how do you find the strength and courage to pretend like their is some purpose?
You don't, unless you're particularly talented at self-deception.

>> No.1283124

The "set of complex values of c for which the orbit of 0 under iteration of the complex quadratic polynomial zn+1 = zn2 + c remains bounded", when plotted, gives you this beautiful, infinitely intricate pattern. It had no designer, no purpose, no point, but it is beautiful.

So is life.

>> No.1283130

Of course there's no purpose.

That's what makes it all so funny.

>> No.1283131

I think about this all the time too. However, you've felt elated in your life before right? At some time or another? And there are things you truly enjoy correct? So if you're living, then you might as well live it as best as you can, even if it is pointless and in hundred years everyone you know and yourself will be dead.

>> No.1283133

smoke weed everyday.

>> No.1283135

>>1283124
love it.

>> No.1283136

Dunno OP, that's why I hang out with my friends, read and play vidya. To not think about it.

Nihilism is a shitty rabbit-hole that is hard to escape. Harder the further you go down.

>> No.1283140

>>1283136

dat void. feels bad man.

>> No.1283146

Most folks find their own purpose or meaning. You aren't a soldier to the universe, boy, you don't need an order from it. Do what you want with your life.

>> No.1283149
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1283149

itt: subhumans

>> No.1283154
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1283154

>>1283124
let's dive.

>> No.1283158

So really, I'm the only that finds the whole thing absurd and amusing?

I mean, come on, life's a big farce with no meaning. How is that not hilarious?

>> No.1283166
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1283166

>>1283154

>> No.1283170

>>1283158
It is. Sort of like how you can inadvertently smile or giggle a bit at a really gruesome car wreck on the 11 o'clock news.

>> No.1283181
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1283181

>>1283166

>> No.1283183

>>1283124

Of course it had a designer. Mathematics is a human fiction, as silly as any other master narrative.

>> No.1283185

>Why are so many people content

I don't think they're content about it, I think they accept it because it's the truth.

>> No.1283192
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1283192

Obviously trolling /lit/ is some kind of meaningful turn-on to your enfeebled, fragile existence.

>> No.1283195

>>1283183
>master narrative

sage for a poor man's transcendental signified

>> No.1283196

I can never be completely nihilistic because I often get a sense that there's something beyond description in the making of the world. There's these wonderful moments that seem insignificant that can bring me to tears. I can't describe it at all, and I'm an agnostic so it's not a faith thing, there just seems to be something that is beyond my understanding and the desire to be a part of it and gain insight into what it is is what makes me enjoy life.

In b4 Laotzu.

>> No.1283214

>>1283195

Fuck off idiot, you're adding nothing.

>> No.1283237

>>1283214
Why would I want to pile even more horseshit on the shit pile lol

>> No.1283255

>>1283105

We create our own meaning in life. My meaning is currently art. If that doesn't pan out, I may become a rapist and murderer. It's all good.

>> No.1283267
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1283267

<< I wish I had this guy's no nonsense attitude abt life.

>> No.1283276

>>1283255
>We create our own meaning in life.
This is the existentialist way of saying "keep telling yourself something until you believe it's true", and is somehow considered valid in contrast to every other claim made with that sort of thinking.

>> No.1283279

Read Camus.
/thread

>> No.1283280

>>1283276

No it isn't. There is no external meaning. We create our own meaning in life.

>> No.1283284

>>>1283280
>We create our own meaning in life
>This is the existentialist way of saying "keep telling yourself something until you believe it's true"

>> No.1283285

>>1283280
But meaning isn't necessary.

>> No.1283289

>>1283285

Why shouldn't I kill every kike I see? If there's no meaning, there's no reason to allow people to live.

>> No.1283295

>>1283284

No it isn't, because there is no external truth it contradicts. We create our own meaning in life. Those who do not create a meaning forfeit the right to live.

>> No.1283299

>>1283295

Wouldn't go this far, but we do create our own meaning in life.

>> No.1283302

>>1283289
Are you trying to make a point here?

>> No.1283307

>>1283289
>If there's no meaning, there's no reason to allow people to live

There is also no reason not to allow people to live

You pissants are so simple-minded

>> No.1283309

>>1283302

No, I'm asking a question.

>> No.1283317

>>1283307

No, you are simple-minded. I need a reason not to make people suffer. I would love to have an excuse to teach them what it means to deny my sovereignty over their lives.

>> No.1283320

>>1283317
>I need a reason not to make people suffer
You need a reason to make people suffer

>> No.1283324

>>1283309
No, you're asking a question to make a point. You're implying that nihilism about teleology is somehow bad because it leads to ethical nihilism.

>> No.1283325
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1283325

the day when nihilists get caught up with there own meaningless logic and decide its meaningless to speak to anyone else at all about meaninglessness is the day i will be very, very happy for philosophy, because i wont have to listen to their shit.

>> No.1283331

>>1283320

No, I, personally, need a reason not to. My default pattern of behaviour is violence and mindfuckery.

>>1283324

No I'm not, I'm asking you to tell me why I shouldn't crucify you all.

>> No.1283334

>>1283105
>everything is meaningless
>therefore, determinism

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpeg

>> No.1283342

>>1283331
There is no "should". Only "can" or "cannot". Personally, I have other plans as far as death is concerned, so I would not permit you to crucify me. Since I am willing to use deadly force to keep you from crucifying me, and am somewhat well-armed, it's unlikely you'd be able to pull it off.

That's why.

>> No.1283343

>>1283158

What is hilarious is how people try to fight reality and convince themselves that there is some meaning, some /purpose/ they must fulfill.

But in reality you cannot fight it. You are a worthless pile of carbon, oxygen, and trace amounts of other elements, and regardless of what you do in life, as soon as you are pushing up daises, it doesn't matter. Throwing yourself in front of the car to save the three year old? Pointless. Rushing into a burning building to save orphans? Pointless.

The best is when depressed people try to cling onto their lives, even though it causes them nothing but pain. If life is going to bring you more sadness then happiness, end yourself. It is the only logical thing to do.

Also, OPs image and your tone of post make me think of The Comedian.

>> No.1283348

>>1283331
>No, I, personally, need a reason not to. My default pattern of behaviour is violence and mindfuckery.
You need a reason to engage your behaviours

>> No.1283349

>>1283343
>If life is going to bring you more sadness then happiness, end yourself. It is the only logical thing to do.
pointless

>> No.1283352
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1283352

>>1283105
>free will arguments
>quantum physics is its only salvation

dear god, you haven't spent that much time around the free will topic have you?

>> No.1283353

>>1283348

No I don't.


>>1283342

You would fail, you idiot, you think this is some fucking game.

>> No.1283354

>quantum physics

lol guys the lottery will save us!

>> No.1283355

>>1283348

Care to explain your own patent racism, D&E? Talking about your "slap a jap" comment in CAPSGUY's thread earlier today, your rash of anti-Latino slurs regarding Borges, etc? I'd like to hear the reason you have for engaging in those behaviors.

>> No.1283357

>>1283353
>No I don't.
Yea u do bro, nothing is done without a reason.

>> No.1283359

>>1283349

It has no more point than living, sure.

But then again, it is "pointless" to take your hand off a burning stove, yet you do it because your body dislikes pain. Similarly, why not remove yourself from the pain that is life? You get no pleasure, but your net joy life-joy is higher if you kill yourself earlier, and that is something everyone would like. It doesn't mean that your purpose is to seek joy, but it is just what we do.

>> No.1283360

>Why are so many people content with the fact that life is meaningless?
Because it isn't for them. Meaning is a slippery and generally mis/overused word. Inherent meaning to the universe? No. Created meaning? Sure why not. Soren Kierkegaard explains. "The thing is to find a truth which is true for me, to find the idea for which I can live and die."

>That nothing you do can ever mean anything?
This is a common impulse that people have when things aren't going well. I don't really want to get into philosophy of meaning but you should take a look at your life and think about what you mean by meaning. It's certainly true that the world eventually reduces all of our achievements to dust.

>That we are simply animals?
That's something else altogether. Not really sure what you're trying to get at.

>That free will is nonexistent if we don't get into quantum mechanics where its probabilistic which isn't much better?
That's a difficult topic. Free will remains an unsolved problem. Sure particles behave according to deterministic principles but is consciousness reducible to particles? That's a contentious issue in philosophy. At the very least, we can say that the mind has properties that are not reducible to particles (emergence). As far as thinking free will is non-existent, you're probably just a depressive person. People with certain personality disorders are more likely to believe in determinism, even without real reasons.

>how do you find the strength and courage to pretend like their is some purpose?
Stop trying to be an armchair philosopher. That should help. All organisms seek to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. If that's not purpose, I don't know what is.

>>1283158
"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back." - Marcus Aurelius
Why not laugh back?

>>1283325
NO! Life is meaningless! Therefore it is my purpose in life to explain to everyone why life has no purpose!

>>1283295
lrn2subjectivity

>> No.1283361

>>1283353
>You would fail, you idiot, you think this is some fucking game

No, I'm pretty sure I'd succeed. Shooting people is generally easier than crucifying them, I should think.

>> No.1283364

>>1283355
>Care to explain your own patent racism, D&E?


Am I a racist if I'm superior to a dog, fly, for example in most aspects? Of course not, and nothing ethical follows from this. This is as it is with blacks, asians, hispanics, women, children, anyone who is not me and what have you.

>> No.1283366

>>1283352

He was simply saying that life is determined by random (or seemingly random to humans, who do not know all the details about physics) probabilities.

Random probabilities on a sub-atomic level =/= free will.

>> No.1283368

>>1283355
>implying Deep&Edgy isn't a massive troll

>> No.1283369

What the existentialists, buddhists and nihilists fail to recognise is that the people who don't 'get it' self-medicate themselves through society and capitalism just as well until they die and it's all the same regardless.

>> No.1283370

>>1283364

>Dog and fly are the same as other human beings

Oh wow Deep, I used to think there was actual logic at work in your noggin. Now I see it's a barren landscape of fallacies and delusion.

you used to be cool, man

>> No.1283373

>>1283357

Live more life, read fewer books, most things are done for no good reason whatsoever.


>>1283361

You're an idiot.

>> No.1283375

>>1283370
>you used to be cool, man

You people are so fickle, I'll quote a pink floyd song in a thread in like a week and someone will love me for it.

>> No.1283377

>>1283373
>most things are done for no good reason whatsoever.
reasons are neither good nor bad

>> No.1283386

>>1283370
>Dog and fly are the same as other human beings
Also you are putting words in my mouth.

>> No.1283392

>>1283377

No, reasons are good or bad.

>> No.1283397

>>1283392
no, that is something projected onto the reason by the subject

blatantly contradict me without offering an argument again and I will simply ignore you

>> No.1283410

>>1283369

We nihilists, absurdists, etc. are fighting the futile fight as well.

It doesn't matter that they will never get it, because it gives us the "purpose" we need to continue living.

In reality this purpose is non-existant, and only serves as an illogical excuse to continue living because deep down, while I can type these things, and while I know they are true, the part of me that strives to continue existing will not let me accept, or believe (probably the better word) these notions. So while I "know" that life is futile, I cannot "believe" that life is futile.

tl;dr: Our genetic history keeps us alive because it makes it more likely that we will live and produce offspring, so fuck you dna, because of you I will never be able to accept life's futility on a deeper level. (Or at least it will take several years)

>> No.1283411

>>1283397

No, reasons are good or bad. By all means begone, you should anyway - you've done enough to earn the loss of all those you love by now.

>> No.1283413
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1283413

>>1283366
i know what he's saying. but its sophomoric. People who go 'OMG EVERYTHING IS DETERMINED IN THE WORLD BECAUSE THIS EQUATION SAYS SO!" don't understand the sciences. I once tried getting a theoretical physicist to bind down on a position about free will and determinism, and he wouldn't do it because 'physics has no place with that. Models should be made as close to reality as possible and no closer then that.' People mistake models of reality as reality itself. There are no 'laws' in the strict sense, only regularities. And there all the ones we 'have' are descriptions of reality, not prescriptions for reality. The only people who are freaking out about free will are the ones trying to do the latter. Once you realize the physics is only a description of the world (and one that is ever changing at that) and not a prescription, the problem of 'free will' for most people evaporates, because mythical equations on paper don't determine dick.

>> No.1283418

>Why are so many people content with the fact that life is meaningless?
How can you not be content with something that you cannot change and doesn't matter?

>> No.1283423

Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!

>> No.1283424

>>1283397
>Don't blatantly contradict me bro
>only I can do that

>> No.1283434

>>1283423
Deep&Edgy's identity is always vital, how else would be able to ignore him?

>> No.1283436

>>1283413

As far as we know, the laws of physics (as a whole, not necessarily the laws as we currently know them) will stay absolute and unchanging long after humans exist. Because we know our bodies work on a system with rigid and unchanging rules, there is no reason to think that free will can exist.

That said, determinism isn't really important for nihilism, absurdism, etc. because your life is just as pointless whether you choose it or whether you have no choice.

>> No.1283438
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1283438

>>1283413

>> No.1283439

>>1283424

>implying there is anyone here who could possibly do that besides me

>> No.1283446

>>1283439

Eat a bowl of my shit.

>> No.1283448

>>1283436

You could also change 'laws staying the same' as 'regularities continuing without any noticeable irregularities.'

>> No.1283449

These people aren't content you can be sure of that. Life is a battle of emotions unless you're a sociopath. And maybe those beliefs make it easier for them to not feel bad for the regrets and guilt they feel for not living life to the fullest and with meaning. That's just a guess I have no reasoning to back the up by the way

>> No.1283450

OP here

Thanks alot guys

>> No.1283452

>>1283418
Because people are raised to think there should be a meaning to and reason for everything. The idea that existence is an unfortunate accident doesn't jive well with our modern western ideals. And people are always most discontent with the things they can't change.

>> No.1283453
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1283453

>>1283436
>everything is rigid and the same and fucking boring

inb4:http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19429-laws-of-physics-may-change-across-the-universe.html

>> No.1283456
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1283456

>>1283448
>'regularities continuing without any noticeable irregularities.'
>implying the regularities of tectonic plates and natural selection existed at the beginning of the universe and continued on with no noticeable irregularities

>> No.1283460

>>1283453

First of all, unproven.

Second, who is to say that these laws are not simply a subset of a larger system of laws?

>> No.1283462

>>1283436
sure as far as we know but we don't honestly know that far, science as a method has existed only a few hundred years. The human race for what hundreds of thousands. The universe for orders of magnitude beyond that. Sure the best we can do is to assume consistency over time, but that's not really a justifiable extrapolation to make.

>> No.1283463

Quantum mechanics is WORSE than determinism, because it is chaotic, and truly meaningless. At least with fate we can say there's a reason (even if it's not designed).

>> No.1283468

>>1283456

>Implying that natural selection is not merely the result of a set of laws that determine the physics of the universe, and could not thus be considered "a regularity which rose out of another regularity"

Same for plate tectonics

>> No.1283471

>>1283463
Unless you're Robert Kane.

>> No.1283474
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1283474

>>1283460
>First of all, unproven.

more like unapproved by the current paradigm.

>Second, who is to say that these laws are not simply a subset of a larger system of laws?

well until you can prove that i suppose you can stop supposing who is to say what

>> No.1283476

>>1283462

It is the best we have. And until we have evidence to the contrary, why dispute it?

>> No.1283482

>>1283476
Because its always good to recognize what you don't know. Treating a hypothesis like dogma is not what either science or philosophy are supposed to be... ideally.

>> No.1283483

it's a lot easier when you're not sober.

>> No.1283489
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1283489

>>1283468
>implying he actually has empirical evidence from 14 billion years ago the universe operated on the same laws as it does today.

>> No.1283491

>>1283105

>Why are so many people content with the fact that life is meaningless?

Why can't you post your quasi-philosophical bullshit in /r9k/ where people will actually care?

>> No.1283493

>>1283474

Everything we know lines up with the "everything works based on a series of laws" idea.

What evidence do we have to the contrary? Why suppose anything difference when the traditional model has not failed? Now, I hope you will not try to compare me to those fundamentalists of earlier ages who, for example, persecuted people like Galileo, because I am simply saying that there is no reason to assume the contrary when there is no evidence supporting the contrary.

>> No.1283496

>>1283493
the current model is always failing. So is the state of science and the progress of knowledge.

>> No.1283497

>>1283482

I'm not treating it like dogma. It is possible that the laws change over time, or in different places. But we have no evidence to support this, so why assume that it is true?

>> No.1283505

>>1283496

Traditional model meaning that the laws of physics are immutable, not that we know all the laws.

>> No.1283506
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1283506

>>1283497
don't you know that the only thing constant is change?

>> No.1283509

>>1283497
No one is assuming its true, we're just not assuming that its false either. There is only a limited set of data within which we can make any meaningful statements. We're just saying that fact should be recognized.

>> No.1283514

>>1283506

Proof?

To me it kind of seems like nothing is really changing, and that the only thing I can be positive of is that if I pour water our of a water bottle, it will not change into wine when it hits the sink. (Under normal, everyday conditions, of course.)

>> No.1283517
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1283517

>>1283505
right, so me the immutable fucking laws. If our understanding is always changing, and we've never found one immutable law that hasn't been subject to revision, why suppose there are any? Wheres the damn proof in these immutable laws? Wheres the evidence? Its nothing but conjecture based on sociopolitical/historical/technological boundaries. There is no hardcore proof in any of it, its a philosophical presupposition.

>> No.1283525

>>1283514
>under normal everyday circumstances of course
So given that things are consistent with "normality" things never deviate from normality. Fuck me the tautology club has found another president.

>> No.1283532

>>1283517

All laws are immutable. We just don't know all of them. This is what I will assume until evidence to the contrary is shown, because there IS no evidence to the contrary that I have seen, and if I have not seen it, heard of it, or been able to reason it, then I have no reason to believe it.

>> No.1283534

>>1283514
>To me it kind of seems like nothing is really changing, and that the only thing I can be positive of is that if I pour water our of a water bottle, it will not change into wine when it hits the sink.

everything is always changing, even water in a bottle. let that bottle sit there for long enough, eventually it will wither away, the water will escape, and the water molecules will turn into whatever the current atmosphere demands of it for the time being.

>> No.1283537

>>1283532
>all laws are immutable

prove it

>> No.1283541

>>1283452

No, it goes fine with contemporary Western thinking. Nothing means anything - be an appetite on legs, there is no tomorrow.

Like the guy said, it's actually the absense of God that comforts man, not his presense.

>> No.1283542

Why even ask the question? By asking the question, the asker rhetorically traps the answer to assume an answer.

Perhaps you asked an invalid question?

>> No.1283548
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1283548

>>1283537
>my face

>> No.1283556

>>1283534

According to laws which we (at least partially) know.
>>1283525
Fine, remove under normal conditions. Doesn't change a thing.

>> No.1283578

>>1283375

No I'm saying you were cool back in like June and July when you were just the brooder who sat in the corner until someone raised a legitimate literary question at which point you swooped in with dry, witty and insightful commentary.

>> No.1283583

>>1283578

he got it off wiki

>> No.1283612

>implying life is meaningless when I give it meaning

>> No.1283638

>>1283436
>As far as we know, the laws of physics (as a whole, not necessarily the laws as we currently know them) will stay absolute and unchanging long after humans exist.
>know
>implying you can infer that the laws will stay the same in the future because they stayed the same in the past
You can't. read Hume.

>>1283493

>What evidence do we have to the contrary? Why suppose anything difference when the traditional model has not failed?
Because the moment you do that, you're not doing science any more. How would you find out if the traditional model has failed? Experiments. Which give you what? Evidence, sometimes to the contrary. If scientists were to walk into their labs tomorrow and say "Well it's been real but I think we have a handle on things so let's just stop questioning things and go play golf."

>Everything we know lines up with the "everything works based on a series of laws" idea.
Of course it does. That's the whole point of science - to discover regularities in nature. But to imply that these laws will always stay the same in the future because they have in the past and that they work the same way in unobserved cases as they do in observed cases is a real leap.

>> No.1283676

Meh, my body was designed to live and do stuff, my brain was designed to think and feel emotion. It's designed to get joy from certain things and to make itself and my body try to get more of that joy. So I just go along with it. Life doesn't need meaning anymore than water turning into steam needs meaning. Life's meaning is the next Hot Pocket, and I embrace that.