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/lit/ - Literature

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12705874 No.12705874 [Reply] [Original]

>I'm going to cram as many references as possible into a single paragraph.
>Never mind that people don't actually talk or think like this.
>The more abtruse the references are, the more loudly people will praise my writing, for fear of appearing ignorant.
>What's that, prose you say?
>An artiste such as myself need not concern himself with such pedestrian matters.
>If I insert enough Shakespeare, Plato, Aquinas, and also literally every single writer I have ever read, no one will think to question the merits of the prose itself.

Bravo, Joyce, Bravo!
I am lmaoing at all of these "scholars" autistically poring over every line of this text in order to extract every last drop of meaning and nuance like juice out of an orange.

>> No.12705952

>>12705874
This but for Toilets

>> No.12705979

>>12705952
This but for youre mom

>> No.12705980

>>12705874
This but Not

>> No.12705986

>>12705979
t. Toilets fanboy

>> No.12705999

>>12705986

t. mommy's special little boy

>> No.12706014

>>12705999
Of course I am, who else would be, faggot? lmao

>> No.12706024

>>12706014
Don't call me f*ggot, f*ggot.

>> No.12706061

>>12705874
That's not Finnegan's Wake you fucking nitwit.

>> No.12706087

>>12706061
Finnegan's Wake is vastly superior to Ulysses.

>> No.12706124

read finnegan's wake a little while back when i was in high school. liked it, don't see what the big deal is.

>> No.12706137

>>12706124
based

>> No.12706153

FOr me it's Finnegan's awake

>> No.12706303

>>12705874
>What's that, prose you say?
>An artiste such as myself need not concern himself with such pedestrian matters.
did you even read the book

>> No.12706511

>>12705874
>One of reasons book is well known is how relatable Leopold's Blooms internal monologue is
>nobody actually thinks like this
??

Oh man, I'd post my favorite passages but I think they'd be wasted on you.

>> No.12706567

>>12706511
flipping to a random page and:

>— Dialectic, Stephen answered: and from his mother how to bring thoughts into the world. What he learnt from his other wife Myrto (absit nomen!) Socratididion's Epipsychidion, no man, not a woman, wil ever know. But neither the midwife's lore nor the caudelectures saved him from the archons of Sinn Fein and their naggin of hemlock.

Brilliant dialogue, Joyce!
If someone said that to me irl I would shatter their jaw.

>> No.12706572

>>12706303
Contrary to what online discourse would have you believe, life is not a series of "gotcha" moments.

>> No.12706950

>>12706567
>poster talks about Bloom’s relatability and realistic portrayal of a subject
>quotes a section focusing on Stephen as a counter argument
You fucking CRETIN don’t you dare contact me or my son EVER AGAIN

In all seriousness though, the point is soaring above your head. Stephen is the erudite scholar, so naturally everything filtered through his perspective will be coloured with philosophical and aesthetic references. Bloom on the other hand is a much more embodied and carnal character, you can see them as two distinct parts of Joyce’s psyche (if you’re inclined to read books in such a shallow way).

>> No.12707192

>>12705874
>I'm going to cram as many references as possible into a single paragraph.
That's one of the things that genuinely bothers me about some "great" works. Just because it has many references doesn't make a work great. There has to be something more, no? either technique or honesty or genuine insight into our psyche and society or moving, creative prose or some meaningful expression of the human soul.

Granted I haven't read Ulysses, so i'm speaking in general

>> No.12707328

>>12705874
I'm related to James joyce :^)

>> No.12707369

Thanks for reminding me that there is no actual discussion of books on this board OP

>> No.12707641

>>12706567
If someone can't understand this passage, it's their fault for not reading Plato.

>> No.12707651

>>12707192
It's not like they're just lolrandumb references. They give the book an unparalleled richness. Really, how deftly Joyce wove all this shit together is astounding. If you're not a pleb, they way he wrote DOES give genuine insight into our psyche and society, AND it is moving, creative prose that is a meaningful expression of the human soul.

>> No.12707659

>>12705874
>doesn't talk/think in dense clusters of erudite allusions

>> No.12707664

>>12705874
Ulysses is like ancient homestuck

>> No.12707672

>>12706014
that's such a cute retort u gave to him. i hope u and your mommy have a good day and a good life. i hope she is doing well (no sarcasm here)

>>12705999
i wish i were a mommygf's special little boy...that would be my only wish in life...

>> No.12707715

Read this shit in highschool, it was OK

>> No.12707725

>>12705999
god i wish that were me

>> No.12707785

i finally have the momentum to write, but everything im churning out is so awful that its demoralizing me and making my writing worse

what should I do in this situation?

>>12707664
are you mike rugganetta's evil twin, rike mugganetta?

>> No.12707828

>>12707785
push through it, there's no other way. u won't get better by not writing

>> No.12707862

>>12707785
Post your writing so I can have a good laugh

>> No.12707869

>>12707192
this is how i feel about Brodsky. I actually fucking hate Brodsky so much i don't know why people pretend to like this stupid fucking graphomaniac

>> No.12707878
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12707878

>>12705952

>> No.12707913

>>12707862
its not so bad its funny sadly, its just bad-bad. very little lexical variety, too much exposition, annoying characters, etc.

>> No.12708708

>>12705874
Joyce was just a shitposting fart sniffing potato cunt

>> No.12708716

>all these plebs ITT that clearly haven't even read the book

fucking newfags

>> No.12708719

>>12707328
I see you are new to /lit/, welcome friend.

>> No.12708724

>>12708716
did you honestly expect that /lit/ read books?

>> No.12708730

>>12708724
>tee hee /lit/ doesn't read!!1!
>am I doing it right, guys?

newfags gtfo

>> No.12709057

>>12708716
I read it, which is why I'm here. I like that page where he lists a bunch of saints but then he lists a bunch of non-saints but he still introduces them as saints

>> No.12709082
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12709082

>>12706567
>If someone said that to me irl I would shatter their jaw.
Grug no understand. GRUG ANGRY. GRUG SMASH.

>> No.12709090

>>12709082
everyone understands it pseud that’s not the point

>> No.12709263

>>12706511
This anon has the right of it. I know in the Hades section Bloom is extremely relatable and I had thought similar thoughts about the discussion of suicide. Obviously there is the references to Hamlet in the part but then again if you have read Hamlet you might think about those things when you are struck with someone committing suicide.

>> No.12709483

>>12707192
either technique or honesty or genuine insight into our psyche and society or moving, creative prose or some meaningful expression of the human soul.
It has all that. If you want to get a glimpse of what Joyce is about read Dubliners, which is a very easy read. If you like that read his other works.

>> No.12709489

>>12707913
A book is made in the editing, I would wager no writer of worth ever wrote their masterpieces on the first try.

>> No.12709490

>>12705874
Ulysses is the Where's Waldo of novels. Everyone fell for it.

>> No.12709509

>>12706950
Ready Player One sounds like it's a book you'd enjoy.

>> No.12709537

>>12706567
what is the meaning of that passage?

>> No.12709615

>>12709057
I wanna fuck molly with my shrivelled potato

>> No.12709668

>>12709615
Good thing is she'll let you.

>> No.12709738

>>12709668
She would let me hatefuck her for lots of money and some arrogance.

>> No.12709765

>>12709668
Was Bloom a cuck? Did he enjoy the sound of Molly's bedsprings?

>> No.12709787

>>12709765
More of an open relationship imo.

>> No.12709793

>>12705874
some people do think like that though

>> No.12709846

>>12706950
> Stephen is the erudite scholar, so naturally everything filtered through his perspective will be coloured with philosophical and aesthetic references.
Since when is it 'natural' for intellectuals to speak as ambiguously as possible, showering their speech with obscurities and fabricated words? The word 'Epipsychidion' has no apparent use here other than to draw a reference and rhyme with 'Socratidion's'. Likewise 'caudelectures' seems to be entirely made up so that Joyce can reference yet another work that he read, 'Curtain lectures'. Why is this acceptable to you?

Contrast this with the myriad of dialogue occurring between intellectuals in Dostoyevsky's work. Each character talks logically, genuinely, and with the express intent of communicating information to the other; a real conversation is occurring. Dostoyevsky is actually trying to tell a story rather than use his characters as a proxy to establishing himself as an esoteric connoisseur.

>> No.12709866

>>12709846
This isn't even the worst of Joyce either. Finnegan's Wake is absolutely laughable.

>> No.12710444

>>12709846
God, somehow you make Dostoevsky sound boring. You suck all the joy out of reading because certain words turn you off because of a lack of definite meaning. I get it if you’re a naturalist and like monochrome tedium, but Joyce’s use of language is celebratory rather than pretentious. His playful cognitive elasticity is almost unparalleled as far as Ulysses goes, while reading Dubliners and portrait shows he’s perfectly capable at restraint and realism too. He chooses to write in another way in order to create and innovate, rather than merely reproduce.

>> No.12710518

>>12709765
Bloom was a cuck and Molly was a whore.

>> No.12710670

>>12710444
Come on, you know he was bigdicking it.

>> No.12710686

How does one even? I read to relax.

A well structured sentence is a beautiful thing, butt...

>> No.12710689

>>12709846
Is this from Scylla and Charybdis? I think this episode is poking fun at the high falutin, literary circles that existed in Joyce's time and what he wanted to break from. I think you are stuck on thinking that what Stephen thinks is what Joyce wants us the reader to think, we see Stephen be an asshole and just generally unpleasant(see Oxen in the Sun). There is clever wordplay in this episode and interesting dialogue.