/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12674138]

How is Knut Hamsun generally viewed today? Is he still seen as one of the greats or do people generally try and avoid acknowledging him?

[Anonymous No.12674165]

>>12674138
I honestly don't get the appeal. I read Hunger and it felt like a complete shaggy dog story; another one of these starving artist portraits that are growing quite tiring for me. There was one moment where he explained an insect clinging to the indentation of his text upon the page, which I found to be provocative imagery but the book really didn't have much in the way of that sort of thing. It was quite dry, both in thematic content and prose.

[Emonationalist !!HxQhKkNYVzK No.12674200]

Knut Hamsun looks like THAT?

[Anonymous No.12674205]

He really hamstrung himself by giving his Nobel prize to Joseph Goebbels

[Anonymous No.12674212]

>>12674165
>another one of these starving artist portraits
Not just another one. THE FIRST ONE. Hunger was the beginning of novels as we know them today.

[Anonymous No.12674229]

>>12674165
>It was quite dry, both in thematic content and prose.
did you read it in norwegian? and if so do you mind meeting me at st. olavs plass so i can beat yo ass?

[Anonymous No.12674245]

>>12674229
Of course I don't know any fuckin' Norwegian

>implying translating it removes all the imagery and poetic devices that literally aren't there

HMMMM

[Anonymous No.12674252]

>>12674212
Its just another incarnation of the Superfluous Man of 19th century Russian literature.

[Anonymous No.12674263]

>>12674205

top 10 cringiest literature movements

[Anonymous No.12674278]

>>12674245
which translation did you read? i think there's atleast two of hunger in english

[Anonymous No.12674283]

>>12674138
Hunger is still quite well-known I think and a lot of people know that he was a "nazi".
I was quite let down by Growth of the Soil... seemed quite basic and superficial. The characters were one-dimensional and the whole thing was just bland.
Beyond Sing the Woods (and it's sequels) by Trygve Gulbranssen has basically the same themes but is so much more enjoyable. Really recommend to anyone who liked (or didn't like) GotS.

[Anonymous No.12674308]

>>12674252
Not really. Sure, Hamsun looked to Dostojevski for inspiration, but claiming Hunger was 'just another' of anything is ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.12674319]

>>12674278
I don't remember. I read the book 5 years ago. I basically read whichever one is available at my library. I still don't see how translating the book denudes it of metaphors/similes, analogies, and imagery.

[Anonymous No.12674330]

>>12674319
are you a, dare i say it, monoglot?

[Anonymous No.12674338]

He is ignored in Norwegian schools depending on how the teacher or professor feels about him honestly.

[Anonymous No.12674341]

>>12674283
gulbranssen is pleb garbage and if you prefer trygve to knut you should never post here again

[Anonymous No.12674357]

>>12674341
never change /lit/

[Anonymous No.12674358]

>>12674319
Hamsun has a very delicate and understated sense of humour. Its not always translatable, and even if it is, not everyone will notice it even in Norwegian.

[Anonymous No.12674360]

>>12674330
No, luckily I am a leaf so I know some (albeit bastardized) French. I still wouldn't want to read Proust in its original language. Functionally, I'm basically a monoglot. But what has that to do with anything? Hardly any given person on this Vietnamese Snow-shoveling Agora is going to know Norwegian.

[Anonymous No.12674369]

Whats the best Hamsun to start with?

Most writers I like are from the 1950s onwards and I want to force myself to read works from before then

[Anonymous No.12674382]

>>12674369
Hunger, Pan or Growth of the Soil. Read a bit about each work and pick the one that seems most interesting to you, they're all pretty different.

[Anonymous No.12674387]

>>12674205
Goebbels, who invented and in large part perfected the propaganda machinery we are all bombarded by to this day, continuously? He deserved a nobel prize for outstanding achievement.

[Anonymous No.12674389]

>>12674382

sweet will do anon

[Anonymous No.12674403]

>>12674387

now you have me wondering if Goebbels ever wrote anything /lit/

[Anonymous No.12675409]

>>12674389
Don't forget 'Mysteries' and his essay From the Unconscious Life of the Mind.

[Anonymous No.12675417]

>>12674387
>who invented and in large part perfected the propaganda machinery we are all bombarded by to this day
That was Edward Bernays

[Anonymous No.12675422]

>>12675409

I've decided to start with Hunger, gonna go to the Waterstones tomorrow

[Anonymous No.12675436]

I want to read Hunger but I don't read translations and I don't want to learn a language for the sake of reading one book.

[Anonymous No.12675586]

>>12674165
You have the opinions of a 14 year old and write like one too.

[Anonymous No.12675602]

>>12675409
This is what you need to look like to be homeless and still have high-born thots lusting after you. Based Hamsun redpilling earlier generations.

[Anonymous No.12675607]

>>12675417
He just translated it to America and wrote a book about it

[Anonymous No.12675617]

>>12674403
Look out for his novel "Michael". He also wrote numerous essays and he even released a comic book called "Das Buch Isidor".
https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/goeb60.htm
https://archive.org/details/Goebbels-Joseph-und-Mjoelnir-Das-Buch-Isidor/

[Anonymous No.12675639]

>>12675586
Neither one of those things you said make any sense. Just a reactionary knee-jerk response. Actually ironically, you are the one that needs to grow the fuck up. Also you can check if that post is mine.

[Anonymous No.12676923]

>>12674319
Are you retarded? Do you think languages are mere ciphers?

[Anonymous No.12676942]

>>12676923
>how DARE you read translated literature!
>if you don't speak the original language you should be euthanized
>literature should NEVER be known outside national borders

[Anonymous No.12677372]

>>12674229
Hunger was written in Dutch, unless Norwegian is your first language there is not much point in reading it in Norwegian.

[Anonymous No.12677385]

As a swede, his stuff hits a bit too close to home. Read most of his stuff tho and liked it fine. But i dont think i will re-read it anytime soon.

[Anonymous No.12677387]

>>12677372
Doh, that should be Danish, not Dutch.

[Anonymous No.12677421]

>>12674200
Here is an older Knut for you.

[Anonymous No.12677444]

>>12675617
Damn I wish I could read

[Anonymous No.12677479]

>>12677387
Why was it not written in Norwegian ?

[Anonymous No.12677490]

>>12677479
Because Norway had spent the past 400 years speaking Danish, there was almost no established Norwegian literary scene.

[Anonymous No.12677501]

>>12677490
It’s just that I’m learning Danish and looking for books. Are there other books written by Hamsun in Danish or other non-Danish authors writing in Danish ?

[Anonymous No.12677534]

>>12674338
Wtf, are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.12677548]

>>12677501
There probably are, likely many in Norway right up into the mid 1900s. I have no idea when Knut switched to writing in Norwegian, Hunger, Victoria, Mysteries and Pan were all in Danish, Growth of the Soil was in Norwegian, beyond that I do not know.

[Anonymous No.12677580]

>>12677548
>>12677490
>>12677501
This retard is taking you for a spin. Even today, danish and norwegian is nigh-indistinguishable in written form. Saying a book was written in danish and not norwegian is such a superfluous and stupid statement that I don't really know how to even respond. The end of a handful of words, a few hard sounds being soft.. there is no difference.

t. norwegian, proud to be a brother race of based danes
sami and mountain niggers with their hillspeak can fuck off

[Anonymous No.12677717]

Did his nazi views ever infect his writing? What did he think of Jews?

[Anonymous No.12677736]

>>12677580
So you're saying that I should be able to read Hamsun in the original (so Norwegian) if I'm learning Danish ?

[Anonymous No.12677771]

>>12675436
You’re an idiot.

[Anonymous No.12677908]

>>12677736
Yes.

[Anonymous No.12677932]

>>12677717
he never wrote anything of the sort except that he didn't like the brits because they lacked culture.

[Anonymous No.12678150]

>>12677534
No I'm very intelligent. That's how "læreplanen" works, there's no mandatory authors even if Hamsun is an essential part of modernism and he's guaranteed to be mentioned in the textbooks.

[Anonymous No.12678365]

>>12677717
>>12677932
He expresses sadness over Hitlers death in one of his letters atleast

[Anonymous No.12678373]

>>12675436
u dont think u are taking translations hate a bit too far? u miss many good books with that attitude

[Anonymous No.12678392]

>>12678150
Then to emphasize that he's being "ignored" is a terrible way to word it

[Anonymous No.12678753]

>>12677932
>böier nu vaare Hoder

[Anonymous No.12678998]

>>12677736
If you learn Danish (written) then you will also learn norwegian by default. I am not sure if you are learning by yourself, but in all universities in norway it is common practice to have parts of the curriculum in danish and swedish. Swedish is a bit more different, but still intelligible.

[Anonymous No.12679723]

>>12678998
It seems odd that universities would teach the curriculum split between two identical languages, please elaborate upon that, I mean if they are 'nigh-indistinguishable' what difference would it make? Also please explain why you mentioned the possibility of them being self taught having an issue. Sorry if I seem dense but not only am I a retard, but I am also Sámi.

Here is where our Norwegian friend slips in that they were actually wrong but mostly correct without ever admitting to being wrong and throws in some Sámi hate most likely.

While it is mostly true that in Scandinavia and the region if you learn one you will learn the other as well, it is far from a rule even in those countries and most Danes have quite the difficulty with some of the Norwegian dialects. It is just general usage Norwegian/Danish that is taught and most of them get lost quick, the regional and language specifics are dropped almost completely, it is more of a 'look what we have in common' circle jerk.

[Anonymous No.12679776]

>>12675436
lol you've been memed kiddo

[Anonymous No.12680005]

>>12679723
>It seems odd that universities would teach the curriculum split between two identical languages, please elaborate upon that
Norwegian and Danish is very similar structurally, only a handful of words differ, but those can be quite different. Swedish is a bit more different, the structure as a whole is different in addition to words we don't have, but not so much so that it causes major problems with understanding. Why they do this, I do not know. I always considered it a friendly gesture of unity between us, as well as an opportunity to make communicating easier. Our countries are very similar, so research done in one is probably related to and relevant for similar issues in the neighbour countries. I can only talk from experience. Last year my curriculum was majority english, with a mix of norwegian, danish and swedish articles. Usually there are only a few, there is no set amount or specific rules governing the percentage of each (that I know of). My mom who immigrated 40 years ago also said that they had to read tons of papers in swedish and danish, which when you are trying to learn the language in the first place is extra difficult because of new and strange words, or similar words used in different contexts which confuse. In highschool and in state media it is fixed by law that a certain amount of texts should be norwegian and a certain amount new-norwegian, so the idea isn't new or foreign to us.

>Danes have quite the difficulty with some of the Norwegian dialects. It is just general usage Norwegian/Danish that is taught and most of them get lost quick, the regional and language specifics are dropped almost completely, it is more of a 'look what we have in common' circle jerk.
Which is why I've throughout this thread have stressed written danish. If I listen hard and the person speaks clearly I can understand danish, but it is difficult, especially numbers. I have the same problem with the worst offenders of mountainspeak and hillspeak here in norway. Here's a classic example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykj3Kpm3O0g

However, 99% of danes and 85% of norwegians can perfectly communicate online in written form with no issues what so ever, because written norwegian = written danish. You have nu-speak which is a mountainified version, which a small minority of norwegians use. Many dialects speakers write "proper" norwegian, it only impacts their vocalization and use of certain words that would rarely enter into online conversation, and everyone in the north also speaks a form extremely similar to Oslo norwegian. It is only the mountains in the west and super isolated valleys in the interior that are problematic.

>Also please explain why you mentioned the possibility of them being self taught having an issue.
Because in a school context you are supplied with papers in several languages, and the common topic will help you make sense out of it and understand terms that might be confusing otherwise.

[Anonymous No.12680197]

>>12680005
So what you are saying is they are not the same, but they are the same.

The best part is when a non-Norwegian says Danish and Norwegian are the same they will go off for hours on all the differences.

[Anonymous No.12680206]

>>12674138
I think his glasses might be too small.

[Anonymous No.12680246]

>>12677387
Hamsun wrote in riksmål.

[Anonymous No.12680283]

Hamsun actually wrote in Hawaiian Pidgin

[Anonymous No.12680291]

Hamsun wrote in English, you retards

[Anonymous No.12680301]

>>12680291

This

if Hamsun didnt write in English how come his book titles are in English?

>Hunger
>Growth of the Soil
>On Overgrown Paths

[Anonymous No.12680312]

>>12680246
Isn't that just fancy bourgeois Bokmål?

Everything I have read on Knut says he wrote Danish for the first half of his career, and every source I can find back that up.

[Anonymous No.12680322]

>>12680291
>>12680301
Hamsun actually lived in America for a couple of years. That's why he was redpilled on the eternal *nglo.

[Anonymous No.12680327]

>>12674165
>I read Hunger and it felt like a complete shaggy dog story; another one of these starving artist portraits that are growing quite tiring for me.

I liked Hunger a lot even though it was annoying to get through at parts. I agree with the worn out "starving artist" shit though

[Anonymous No.12680338]

>>12680312
>Everything I have read on Knut says he wrote Danish for the first half of his career, and every source I can find back that up.
(((Wikipedia))) says he wrote in riksmål.

[Anonymous No.12680370]

>>12680338
The wikipedia pages for Pan, Mysteries and Victoria all say they were wrote in Danish. The main wikipedia page also used to say he started in Danish, may still, not going to dig through it now.

[Anonymous No.12680768]

>>12680312
>>12680370
Because riksmål is danish, you illiterate retard. It was explained thoroughly to you here >>12680005

[Anonymous No.12681203]

>>12679723
Where are u from and which languages do u speak?

[Anonymous No.12681424]

>>12677932
>snownigger accusing other Europoids of being cultureless
pretty ballsy desu

[Anonymous No.12681503]

>>12674283
>I was quite let down by Growth of the Soil... seemed quite basic and superficial. The characters were one-dimensional and the whole thing was just bland.

You are gay, sir. Sir! You are gay. Growth of the Soil is Hamsun's best book after Hunger.

[Anonymous No.12681526]

I'm another person that doesn't get the appeal. I like him, but...that's it? He might have been the precursor of the "starving artist" but that doesn't certify quality nor atemporality. His other novels are pretty unremarkable, too.

[Anonymous No.12683052]

>>12681424
>muh old buildings

[Anonymous No.12683828]

>>12681526
He’s the only writer to ever come close to the sublime in Norwegian. But, yeah still not amongst the all time greats of history.

[Anonymous No.12683931]

>>12674338
Where the fuck have you been going to school, Sweden? Or did you not reach past 8th grade?

[Anonymous No.12683947]

Knut Hamsun had a very interesting life. He grew up in poverty and was "given" to his uncle to write for him, as his uncle was losing mobility in his arms. Knut never had an education, probably having less than 300 days of formal schooling in his life, and his uncle was a strict, brutal man.

Since he lived in the outskirts of Europe (northern Norway) his first novels are bad attempts at imitating styles that were popular decades earlier, so they naturally failed. Hamsun later moved to America, where he was trying to become an author for Norwegian Americans, but again his lack of education led to people shunning him, and he was forced to take up hard manual labour. He was then outraged over America's treatment of the Indians and of their workers, so he started supporting several left-wing causes, such as 8 hour working days. But after seeing mobs call for the lynching of innocent people (some anarchist leaders were hung without trial after being accused of throwing bombs, killing people. Some of the men hung werent even in the city when it happened), he started disliking democracy and the opinion of the masses.

He grew to loathe the modern, technological, capitalist world, saying that it had no soul, only caring about money and material goods. With this strong anti-materialism it is easy to see why he was charmed by fascism half a century later.

[Anonymous No.12683962]

>>12683947
He would have his breakthrough with Hunger, which was revolutionary in its time and has shaped the novel genre as we know it today. Imo it's a good novel, not fantastic, but worth reading if you're interested in the history of literature. Kafka had Hamsun's books in his library as a side note.

After a few more popular novels, Pan, Mysteries, Hamsun went through a period of writer's block. He then decided to travel to Russia and to the Caucasus mountains. Here he found something that reminded him of the (few) happy moments in his childhood: freedom and a connection to nature. In "I æventyrland" he writes very positively about Islam and "the east" and their relaxed, natural attitued towards life, in contrast to the anglo-american capitalist, competitive and brutal society.

I think this was the big change in Hamsun's life and authorship, where his novels would start becoming more focused on society, where they had earlier been centered around individual's psychology. Ironically he had earlier had long tirades against the older generation of Norwegian authors, Kielland, Ibsen, Lie and Bjornson, for writing mere social criticism with no eye for the human and psychological.