/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12620087]

why is depression and mental illness more prevalent in this time than ever? it seems that this age is defined by depression and loneliness. are they symptoms of the political and societal systems of today?

[Anonymous No.12620110]

I was told when I poised this discussion while revisiting neopets dot com last winter to get a badass account in 4 months before being froze frozen for saying hitler did nothing wrong on their off topic board full of disaffected 20 somethings who never stopped using the website I was told anxiety is actually a common and storied human affliction when I told them clean [B]enis, [B]ucko. I still think they are just faggots.

[Anonymous No.12620129]

>>12620087
>why is depression and mental illness more prevalent in this time than ever?
Proof?

[Anonymous No.12620146]

>>12620087
You already answered your own question in part: loneliness.
Loneliness is a state of being, depression is a state of mind that can result.
Overall it's quite a long story with many little details, so forgive me if I leave things out or generalize too much.
>here can be both too much and too little social pressure; both is harmful
>modern politics and the elite strives to isolate the individual, since someone without a support group is easier to control and less powerful
>life has become more complicated and frustrating
>people are constantly bombarded by ideal images and horrible tragedy, neither of which should actually affect them
>real leisure time is actually decreasing, in part because there is so much to do and it is more difficult to find some peace, mostly a result of the above
>initiative is no longer really necessary or even encouraged; just be a drone
>high expectations, low payoffs = disappointment

[Anonymous No.12620155]

Irony, narcissism, loss of meaning, it all gets to you in the end.
But it's worth noting that people treat the internet like its their own fucking diary (desu) and so while depression etc may seem more prevalent, that's not necessarily the case.
Social media though, shit man that turns everyone neurotic and paranoid. I honestly think decades from now we'll all be thinking we were nuts when we let this shit get too pervasive, too important too quickly.

[Anonymous No.12620161]

Social media was a mistake

[Anonymous No.12620165]

>>12620087
It's the commodification of everything people used to hold dear.

[Anonymous No.12620178]

>>12620129
Not OP but depression has the largest burden of disease (combination of time off work, lost life years, lost productivity; basically how much a disease costs the workforce) That means it loses more productive hours than literal cancer or any other disease you can name.
>>12620087
Most of it isn't depression as previously defined. As previously defined, it's probably the same, but that would mean the disability burden is caused by overtreatment, for which doctors can be sued so good luck with demonstrating that.

[Anonymous No.12620183]

>>12620087
Technology driving us apart. Lack of religion leading to a lack of meaning in daily life. Also our awareness of mental illness probably makes us notice thing that we wouldn't back in the day

[Anonymous No.12620196]

>>12620087
Social-media has placed an alien external force upon are life. Pressure from our eco-social background is more prevalent than ever. It's the fact that putting up a facade is easier than ever and is natural of our human nature to want to belong. It's the fact that we aren't ever alone, no one shows the real them especially if your a presence on social media, go to school, have a job or even have to put a smile when you go downstairs to have breakfast with your family. We have to continually put a masquerade because everyone else is putting on a masquerade and shitty parents are more more around.

[Anonymous No.12620209]

>>12620178
That's not proof that depression and mental illness are "more prevalent in this time than ever." I didn't argue that depression isn't a concern, only that there's no grounds being provided on which one could make this comparison to the past.

[Anonymous No.12620213]

>>12620129
In regards to depression: does not exist in a primitive society.
Why? How can I be sure?
Because there is no such thing as "group depression" and in the past people had to be part of a functioning group to survive.
There was no opportunity to be depressed, and nothing prevents depression more effectively than active encouragement from and integration with a social group.
It has been documented that primitive people are among the happiest alive. They have much fewer things to worry about. A couple of hours per day are spent procuring and preparing food; 4-6 from what I recall reading, some time is spent tending to necessities; keeping your living space intact, making crafts, tools, clothes, with the rest of the day off.
That said, people also tended to have constructive hobbies. What else were they supposed to do? In other words: there was a higher incidence of fun and relaxation at work and no commuting or anything the like.

[Anonymous No.12620236]

>>12620209
They have kept stats on disability burdens for centuries now. It's risen through the ranks over the past few decades. It is a demonstrated trend over the past two decades especially, though it starts it's uptick with Prozac c. 1988

[Anonymous No.12620249]

it's also strange to think about how there are really no communal spaces anymore for people just to hang out and meet. if you are in public, you are expected to be buying something, or leave. and on top of that, talking to strangers while you are out looking for things to buy is highly frowned upon.

highly unnatural way to live

[Anonymous No.12620257]

>>12620213
>Because there is no such thing as "group depression" and in the past people had to be part of a functioning group to survive.
1. People still have to be part of a functioning group today to survive.
2. Being part of a group doesn't necessarily curb depression. I don't know where you're getting this from. If the group is not satisfying you, this can cause alienation and be worse than being alone.

>There was no opportunity to be depressed,
Proof? Especially considering my above statement.

>It has been documented that primitive people are among the happiest alive.
1. Define happiness.
2. Share these documents please. Who are the "primitive people" being surveyed and when was this?

>They have much fewer things to worry about.
This doesn't necessarily mean there is more pleasure in their lives.

>That said, people also tended to have constructive hobbies.
And they don't today? I don't understand this point at all. You make it sound as if no one is connecting with one another in society anymore, even though everywhere around us is indication of the opposite.

[Anonymous No.12620262]

>>12620213
That said: people that lost their group might well get depressed and most likely die (even if they don't get depressed).

[Anonymous No.12620288]

>>12620236
You know what else has been increasing? Tourism.

https://www.humanprogress.org/dwline?p=41&r0=82&yf=1995&yl=2015&high=1&reg=1&reg1=1

I don't think the disabled, or depressed people, are traveling much.

[Anonymous No.12620301]

>are they symptoms of the political and societal systems of today?

yes.

[Anonymous No.12620302]

>>12620288
So has the world population, but that, like tourism, doesn't even so a correlative increase, and so there's even less suspicion of either being causative. It's almost as if the point you thought you were making is so low on the "relevance to actuarial sciences" list that you could have talked about Harry Potter and been more on topic and within your depth.

[Anonymous No.12620312]

>>12620302
>doesn't even so
doesn't even show*

[Anonymous No.12620313]

>>12620249
It’s not like that in my home country, but we are getting there. Western thought is literally evil.

t. nafri

[Anonymous No.12620320]

>>12620087
It's because of the alienating effects of the commodification of human experience under capitalism, which has progressively colonized every aspect of human experience, reducing it to inter-exchangeable quantities. Capitalism is an unholy ecosystem of life-negation which transmutes human consciousness into heat-waste and dead matter for the purpose of transmuting human consciousness into heat-waste and dead matter, power for the sake of power, control for the sake of control. This process has reached its peak with the attention economy of internet-driven technocapital. While this mad power-lust is ancient, in capitalism the system of power-mongering has become fully automated, the hierarchs themselves reduced into replaceable tools to perpetuate the system. All of humanity is enslaved by it, even those who superficially "win" the most under its self-imposed rules - indeed such people are the biggest losers and the most exploited, fashioned into tools to exploit their fellow human beings.

It's a fucked situation that leads to despair and hatred on numerous fronts. If you uphold the lie of the system's necessity or goodness, you must find some scapegoat to blame for the life-negating effects of the system as a whole - this is what /pol/ and the alt-right is all about. If you become aware that capitalism is a global Doomsday device heading towards omnicide the result is often total despair and hopelessness, and one responds by becoming a doomer or partyboat nihilist who worships Doomsday as a hard cope.

The only way to survive the situational awareness of terminal-stage capitalism is absolutely disciplined self-awareness, to develop absolute courage and resolve in the face of the accelerating madness of capitalism. It requires skepticism and criticism but also imagination and speculation, to dare to dream of a possible future where capitalism doesn't exist and the life-affirming elements of humanity are strong enough to never give the illness of life-negation a chance to significantly grow. It necessitates a search for a path towards life-affirmation on all levels from one's individual situatedness that grows together with others of similar minds, the will to become a hero of life, humanity, and love, a warrior in the emerging army to fight against Doomsday. There are millions of us out there my friends, find your path with all the determination you can and you will find the others.

[Anonymous No.12620343]

>>12620320
Blessed post

[Anonymous No.12620448]

>>12620257
>People still have to be part of a functioning group today to survive.
We might have a differing understanding of what "group" means. Being a citizen of a socialist state is not being part of a group.
Having a job is not being part of a group of workers, if anything it is classes that still exist universally (although classes were much less pronounced millenia ago).
Of course groups still exist, but you don't have to be part of one to survive.
>If the group is not satisfying you, this can cause alienation and be worse than being alone.
If the group is not satisfying to you you die. Simple enough isn't it. No choice is being implied. What even makes you assume someone would give this matter any thought. The other groups you know are all exactly the same as yours, and possible tribal enemies.
This perosn you imply would have much more severe issues than depression to begin with.

>Proof?
Death.

>Define happiness.
Overall it's something about being content with your situation, or positively enthusiastic about it.
>Share these documents please.
Ignoring the fact these records go all the way back into colonial times, where "modern" humans often came into contact with primitive societies, and near universally admired their happiness... some modern sources would be
The Loss of Happiness in Market Democracies
http://www.rewild.com/in-depth/connection.html
Has sources cited.
Happiness in Evolutionary Perspective by Jerome Barkow has good material, but it's very general.
TRIBE - On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger
Maybe Ted Kaczynski? But that's not exactly scientific.

>This doesn't necessarily mean there is more pleasure in their lives
They had only simple pleasures though, and consequently nothing more to ask for.
It's pretty central to the fact.

>I don't understand this point at all.
The point is: the work they did to survive and enrich themselves was, at least in part, in itself fun for them.
In other words they effectively worked less.

[Anonymous No.12620449]

>>12620165
>implying most people hold anything dear
Have you ever browsed the Internet?

[Anonymous No.12620459]

>>12620288
>You know what else has been increasing? Tourism.
#BuildWall

[Anonymous No.12620486]

>>12620249
>on top of that, talking to strangers while you are out looking for things to buy is highly frowned upon.
>strange to think about
Even stranger is who frowns upon it: not some external authority but those strangers themselves.

[Anonymous No.12620508]

>>12620320
this>>12620343

[Anonymous No.12620530]

>>12620155
>I honestly think decades from now we'll all be thinking we were nuts when we let this shit get too pervasive, too important too quickly.
Too right.

[Anonymous No.12620537]

>>12620087

[Anonymous No.12620549]

>>12620087
>why is depression and mental illness more prevalent in this time than ever? it seems that this age is defined by depression and loneliness.
>posts fetishistic image of a little girl
What did OP mean by this?

[Anonymous No.12620557]

>>12620549
it's not a fetishistic image of a little girl. it's smug anime face. learn your pyramid of argumentation.

[Anonymous No.12620583]

>>12620557
I didn't know. Maybe because I don't watch child cartoons.

[Anonymous No.12620591]

>>12620583
>I come from /b/ not /a/
That isn't good.

[Anonymous No.12620603]

>>12620591
This made me laugh.

[Anonymous No.12620671]

>>12620087
>why is depression and mental illness more prevalent in this time than ever?
modern medicine and social welfare keeps getting in the way of natural selection

[Anonymous No.12620762]

>>12620302
It doesn't have to show a correlative increase. Tourism as an activity is increasing, and that activity is by its nature not going to be dominated by disabled and depressed people. If depression is increasing, but also tourism is increasing, that means we have two groups of people in the world who are growing in size, one not depressed. Which, if we return to the original post being replied to, indicates that the increase in disability burdens is not proof that there's higher depression today than in the past.

>>12620448
>Being a citizen of a socialist state is not being part of a group.
That's not what being part of a group means to me either. Subcultures permeate the whole civilized world today based on a variety of factors — types of employment, passions / hobbies, background information, preferential orientations, etc.

>Of course groups still exist, but you don't have to be part of one to survive.
By your own admission, you do. Even today. You're arguing that people are depressed today because they are no longer part of a group. Well, that just states that they ought to become part of a group if they want to survive. There ARE groups to become a part of. People also go and create new groups all the time.

I'll have to go through those sources when I have more time.

>They had only simple pleasures though, and consequently nothing more to ask for.
In other words, more pain = more pleasure, or no pain, no gain. However, these simple lives are an abnormality in history, not the normal state of affairs for these individuals.

[Anonymous No.12621248]

>>12620087
Depression and neurosis are both the results of stalled development. The answer to them is simply "grow up."

You're someone who posts pictures of cartoons on the internet. You might want to think about that.

[Anonymous No.12621264]

>>12620762
>The fact we keep a record of disability burdens, including depression for over five hundred years, with population wide stats coming in before we knew what penicillin was, means there is no past record of depressive incidents
>Because instead of comparing past incidence of depression stats to current incidence of depression stats, I decided to compare it with tourism
>Because my religion believes if you compare things with tourism because reasons the head mates made up, THEN EVERY MORBIDITY AND MORTALITY ARCHIVE DISAPPEARS
So you're saying the records we still have and can reference for past incidence of depression got destroyed because of unicorn poop. I see, how interesting. Why do people keep reading all the archival material though? Seems like the unicorn poop doesn't seem to be getting in their way when looking for past incidence of depression. Maybe they're tourists. That would explain it.

[Anonymous No.12621329]

>>12620762
Those ancient groups can really only be compared to tightly knit extended family groups, and in fact, primitive peoples groups, which often inhabited a single village, were to great extent related, but they also had other things in common, like language, culture, religion and lifestyle.
There really isn't much we can compare it to these days, especially since they had no choice but rely on each other to a great extend.
Definitely had a stifling effect on individualism, although people went their own ways at times and left the group or migrated. After all the last time hunter-gatherers were prominent was during the early spread of humans around the globe, with groups settling down and practicing agriculture, while others did not.
It remained quite similar into early modern history, though, say 6000 years ago, when the first nations arose, largely out of the fact there were many likeminded groups in a given geographic area, but cultures started mixing fairly early, and it group cohesion steadily declined.
This might even explain the rise of organized religion, since one purpose of it was to give people a common identity and laws.

The groups today simply are much more loose and especially one thing: less important for survival.
The closest compareable feature in modernity, aside from the family (which became much smaller, though) is friends, and I think we can agree friends play a big role in peoples happiness.

And no doubt life wasn't exactly pleasant in those days, with primitive medicine, technology and lots of conflict, but people didn't know any better.
You can't crave for or miss things you don't know; which is a much bigger problem for modern people; there is a lot to want or miss, which gives rise to heightened subjective feeling of unhappiness.
Religion was one such thing, too, trying to reassure people about life and death, and that there is nothing to fear.

[Anonymous No.12621363]

depression, alienation, and loneliness is literally a product of capitalism it is a mistake to look at it as an individual issue.

[Anonymous No.12621392]

>>12620087
Anime.
Have any of you guys noticed that increasing rates of depression coincide with the increasing popularity of anime in the west? Also, Anime posters are more likely to be depressed than regular posters and websites where anime discussion is prevalent have more depressed posters than websites where anime isn’t discussed very much.

[Anonymous No.12621413]

It's the intensity of stimulus to a lower one. This phase happen to children when the world is a wonder. The same happens to them; sad people, when they lack the stimulus, when all is not the same wonder, they are sad. The wonder is the old stimulus levels and when you repeat the interaction in the stimulation mean you downgrade the intensity and up goes the frequency and goes as an effect the pre-beggining of sadness. This is where improvement needs to take it's role, to accept truths and negate your mind is important to overcome because the old lies you believed don't serve, the wonder ended. Live now in a state of normal stimulus and truth, do not consider always in your mind sadness but use as a foundation to build your blocks out of the prison.

[Anonymous No.12621457]

>>12620155
>>12620161
There's nothing wrong with social media unless you mean 4chan.

[Anonymous No.12621470]

i'll tell you why kid. come with me.

[Anonymous No.12621477]

Because we’re creatures that are made to move and run and hunt and be on our feet and instead we sit around all day pumping ourselves full of fatty foods, sugar and work in shitty jobs. The biggest one is lack of exercise though.

[Anonymous No.12621478]

Some factors beneficial to good mental health that are harder to come by now than in "hunter and gatherer" times or whatever;
>being out in the sun and fresh air for considerable time every day
>daily physical activities
>eating mostly healthy and nutritious foods
>seriously limiting yourself with alcohol/drugs
>getting enough hours of quality sleep
>regular sleep and feeding times
>social interaction

In general it is easier to be happy when you have less free time. Of course free time is hugely important, I'm not saying working 40hrs is better than 32hrs, more talking about 24hrs or 32hrs versus being neet or having 12hrs of college education a week.

Another huge need not mentioned yet is love/feeling connected with others and feeling like your life is meaningful. Even putting aside the question whether or not digital communication has grown in part at the expanse of deeper, undiluted one on one contact, stuff like social media can be hard. Humans are hard-wired to loathe social rejection/shunning like nothing else, and social media show us so many something as silly as what used to be a dislike (or now a snarky comment) is a very compact powerful form of social rejection. It is normal/human to overanalyze trivial stuff you do but a single ill-advised joke or unflattering picture potentially having such negative consequences is largely new and terrifying.

[Anonymous No.12621491]

It's too easy to live

[Anonymous No.12621518]

>>12621392
Its more of a symptom than a cause

[Anonymous No.12621528]

>>12620320
I think that I understand, you mean that the quantity of luxury and solutions to necessities even to mere necessities expanded into all of the aspects of human life leaving us to ignore what was life, what was old, what was to crave a social interaction. Everything is an easy pleasure which leads us to want more and that which will end the lead is power and control. It will progress even more for pleasure sake.

[Anonymous No.12621560]

>>12620320
Absolutely based and blackpilled

[Anonymous No.12621606]

>>12621392
An amusing theory. France, the USA and Brazil some of the biggest markets for anime, but overall this pictures shows that it's not quite so easy.

>>12621518
Considering depressed people have no real drive to do anything I can't see them watching anime more than the average person.

[Anonymous No.12621712]

>>12621606
How can Japan be that low when they have consistently very high rates of suicide?

[Anonymous No.12621773]

>>12621264
>population increases
>number of depressed people increases
>number of happy people increases
>as above, so below
Simple as.

>>12621329
>Those ancient groups can really only be compared to tightly knit extended family groups
Why? And by family, do you mean blood relatives exclusively? Why do you disregard all of the other groups out there today?

>The groups today simply are much more loose and especially one thing: less important for survival.
If that were true, I don't think you'd be going on about how depression is a bad thing. It wouldn't matter then. But obviously, groups still matter today as much as they did in the past, and depressed people aren't a part of any, and their depression is slowly or in some cases quickly killing them.

[Anonymous No.12621792]

>secular society
>capitalism
>social media

[Anonymous No.12621808]

>>12621792
Secularization has nothing to do with it, because the absence of established religion is much older than the existence of it.

[Anonymous No.12621817]

>>12620087
Why does increase in labor-efficient technology leave people with less free time than serfdom? Why does public education turn 10 year olds into atheistic gender neutral socialists?

[Anonymous No.12621821]

>>12621808
>Secularization has nothing to do with it
Our laws had something to do with magical thinking, such as transcendent morality. Take that away, and even baby torture becomes legal.

[Anonymous No.12621830]

>>12621712
>I'm doing fine, thank you.
This type of culture, I suppose. Imagine the trouble you'd be putting others into, just because of your selfish emotions.

[Anonymous No.12621836]

I think the overwhelming majority of “depression” these days is purely environmental. A breakdown in values and social bonds, lack of religiousity and hedonistic messages in media are largely what propagate depression among the masses. Humans survived for millennia without antidepressants. I somehow doubt 1 in 8 people were just killing themselves in days of yore.

[Anonymous No.12621839]

>>12621821
>Take that away, and even baby torture becomes legal.
Except it isn't legal at all, and laws are older than established religion.

[Anonymous No.12621867]

>>12621773
Rate of incidence is a percentage of the population. It's not case incidence. What you're trying to say is that we are, from some unknown and insane reason, assuming a population of seven billion for all past morbidity stats. That is not the case. The rate per 100,000 of the population is growing, especially in the past 30 years, compared to the rate per 100,000 in years previous. We did not go back into the records to update the populations surveyed to current figures, because that's retarded and nobody except you is dumb enough to think to do that. Learn basic math.

[Anonymous No.12621882]

>>12621712
Suicide has different motivations in Japan. Suicide isn't solely caused by depression, antidepressant companies like people to think it though because it makes those black box warnings seem a bit less drastic.

[Anonymous No.12621893]

>>12621392
/thread

[Anonymous No.12621970]

Depression is a very vague diagnoses and a good example of why symptom-based psychological diagnoses from the DSM or ICD are fucking retarded. The psychoanalysts got a lot closer to creating a system and taxonomy describes different types of mental structures and neuroses. It's also a very stupid idea that people think there is such a thing as a normal, mentally healthy structure that is the human default. Everyone fits into the categories of neurotic, psychotic, or perverse. Functional people are just those who's neurosis or psychosis is working for them (or perverts, who are usually quite happy).

[Anonymous No.12622082]

>>12620161
This, life was infinitely more unique and personal when everyone used screen names and AIM/MSN/ICQ or IRC

[Anonymous No.12622150]

>>12621867
>Rate of incidence is a percentage of the population. It's not case incidence.
When did I suggest otherwise? The increase in happy people is the same way. Now, it might be the case that the rate of incidence is growing faster for depressed people than for happy people, but I don't see why we shouldn't just attribute that to human nature, which is petty and cruel and often becomes negative simply because other people are successful. More successful people in the world = even more bitter people in the world.

[Anonymous No.12622328]

>>12621970
>It's also a very stupid idea that people think there is such a thing as a normal, mentally healthy structure that is the human default. Everyone fits into the categories of neurotic, psychotic, or perverse.
Which brings us to my old question. One that no one has ever managed to answer.

WHAT DO WE CALL THE OPPOSITE OF AUTISM?

There's no disorder without an opposite disorder. If there's no disorder opposite to autism, then autism is not a real disorder. Instead, it's just a scientific-sounding excuse by the society to single out scapegoats for increased control and harrassment.

>inb4 neurotypicality
That's not the opposite condition of autism, that's just an absence of any condition. Neurotypicality is no more "the opposite" of one disorder than it is "the opposite" of every disorder. Neurotypicality cannot "escalate" and get "off the charts". It cannot become "severe". "Unbridled neurotypicality" doesn't become a direct cause of anyone's death.

Analogy: anorexia. Normal weight is not the opposite of anorexia because no one ever suffers from "severely normal weight". However, it is possible to suffer from severe obesity. Therefore both anorexia and obesity are real disorders.

[Anonymous No.12622560]

>>12622328
I think a good question to ask when thinking about this is: Why do the DSM and ICD get longer with every edition? A lot of people are making careers from "discovering" new psychological disorders, in the form of a list of symptoms. The books are just taxonomies of various symptoms, and are so large that anyone could qualify for something in them.

[Anonymous No.12622579]

>>12621808
It has everything to do with it. We can’t actually comment on how it felt to live in a pre religious society but I imagine it to be depressing despite whatever faux Utopia you have.

I’m not religious but I can’t deny it’s power to make God fearing citizens do well based on fear and the tripartite mind. This leads to less shitty interactions on a day to day basis and general decorum.

A secular society also gives way to there being nothing to look forward to after death and people holding the belief that this life is it so you’ve already wasted what time you have existing if you haven’t spent it well.

You dumb cunt.

[Anonymous No.12622610]

>>12620087
Because it's diagnosed and cataloged more effectively now. Even in past societies where it may have been acknowledged, it's unlikely we'd have a great idea of how prevalent it was.

[Anonymous No.12622622]

>>12622579
>I imagine it to be depressing
We wouldn't have made it this far as a species if it was. And do you think every other animal other than humans is depressed by default? No. So there goes your theory.

[Anonymous No.12622632]

>>12622622
Human's aren't animals

[Anonymous No.12622638]

>>12622632
lmao

[Anonymous No.12622660]

this started with Ruben Dario´s poems ( in LA) which talked about sadly feelings, and mental illness.
Ruben Dario started the post modernist epoch of the art, so then, the actual artistic epoch is about mental illness and melancholy

[Anonymous No.12622675]

>>12620459
this

[Anonymous No.12622697]

>>12621560
>blackpill
That poster is poping "Lifepills". Very different sort of thing.

[Anonymous No.12622706]

behold, the real anti-depressant

[Anonymous No.12622711]

>>12622706
Behold, the reason why we are where we are today.

[Anonymous No.12622714]

>>12620087
1: more awareness and broader definitions. 150 years ago, some one with BPD or aspergers probably wouldn't even be considered sick or mentally ill or whatever
2. People are farther away from the environment they evolved to thrive in then ever before. For 99.99% of human existence, people didn't sit at a desk for 8 hours a day, or live in cities with insane population density, or eat shitty processed foods, or worry about how they looked on social media. I'm not gonna go full on unibomber-autism mode and say we should revert back to cavemen or anything, but there's been very little honnest discuss about the negative effects of societal progress.

[Anonymous No.12622731]

>>12622714
Also there's the fact that in the past, mentally ill people were less adapt at surviving and probably just died off after a few years, making them less visible in the population

[Anonymous No.12622759]

>>12620087
The planet is dying, we've realised the great human ambition has lead to one of the fasted, largest mass extinctions this planet has ever known. Western democracy is faltering, our legal systems can't keep up with the advancement of technology. The wealth gap has never been greater.
The age of retirement keeps getting pushed back, and staring down the barrel of 50+ more years of working for a corporation that doesn't care about you, offers no job satisfaction, and is built on taking advantage of poor brown or yellow skins is a harrowing sight.

Kafka was right.

[Anonymous No.12622767]

>>12622706
Go to hell

[Anonymous No.12622769]

>>12622767
read it

[Anonymous No.12622777]

>>12622150
>When did I suggest otherwise? The increase in happy people is the same way
No there would have to be a decrease in happy people to have an increase in depression. That is a reciprocal relationship. >>12622150
>Now, it might be the case that the rate of incidence is growing faster for depressed people than for happy people,
Since it is a reciprocal relationship, well, let's not bother because you won't understand what I say and anyone who got an A in math at ten years old can tell you why, which will still go above your head.
If you would like remedial math lessons, such as "why is a % rate of the population always relative to the population" you can start paying me a couple hundred.

[Anonymous No.12622786]

>>12620087
losers now spend all their time on the internet, which wrecks your dopamine receptors

[Anonymous No.12622802]

>>12620087
I don't know about anyone else but I abused MDMA for 4 years straight.
I don't mind the depression, i just wish the brain zaps would stop.

[Anonymous No.12622805]

>>12622759
>Our legal systems can't keep up with the advancement of technology.
Life... will find a way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_is_law

>The age of retirement keeps getting pushed back, and staring down the barrel of 50+ more years of working for a corporation that doesn't care about you, offers no job satisfaction.
That's one of the beauties of capitalism: wagecucking isn't mandatory.
>>>/biz/

[Anonymous No.12622816]

>>12622805
Wagecucking is absolutely mandatory.
Someone has to be a wagecuck otherwise the whole house of cards come tumbling down.

[Anonymous No.12622817]

>>12621839
>laws are older than established religion
Proof? If you could show the oldest establishment of religion and also the oldest laws.

[Anonymous No.12622825]

>>12622817
Not him but Code of Hammurabi

[Anonymous No.12622828]

>>12622777
>No there would have to be a decrease in happy people to have an increase in depression.
Not when the population is increasing as well. Then rate of incidence can increase for both, just not equally. Smug idiot.

[Anonymous No.12622830]

>>12620087
I could tell you the actual answer but you don't want to read it.

[Anonymous No.12622831]

>>12622816
>otherwise we would have robots 20 years sooner
Fixed.

[Anonymous No.12622869]

>>12622828
No, for a person to become depressed, they have to stop being in the happy person pile. You can add more happy people from Mars to the world population at the same rate that people become depressed, and it will not stop the number of depressed people going up. So long as people are becoming depressed, they have to decrease in happiness reflecting that. You are again confusing rates of incidence and overall incidents.

For five hundred dollars, I can explain this with marbles or more aliens

[Anonymous No.12622872]

>>12622825
And the Babylonian religion is older yet. It's interesting that there's no evidence of any law prior to religion.

[Anonymous No.12622876]

>>12622872
based

[Anonymous No.12622883]

>>12622817
I'm pretty damn sure tribal laws such as "no one is to go in the valley because those bastard snakes are there" is older than anything which could resemble our notion of religion, because death is much older than our conception of it.

[Anonymous No.12622892]

>>12622802
>I abused MDMA for 4 years straight.
>Got health problems.
1. Corelation is not causation.
2. Not even corelation. People get brain zaps without ever using drugs. Health is not forever, body breaks.
3. Unless it's a scientifically established consequence of MDMA, you shouldn't guilt-trip yourself.
4. Even if it is, unecstatic life is not worth living. Man is not a vegetable.
5. Disclaimer: I've never tried XTC, so I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.12622915]

>>12620087
Depression is the disease of the white man, caused by the dystopian world they've built for themselves.

[Anonymous No.12622931]

>>12622915
Not built just for ourselves. Built for all of mankind.
When the Africans finally start to look outwards, they're going to freak.

[Anonymous No.12622936]

>>12622883
In your head anon, in your head. It's impossible to prove, as is when reptiles magically became birds.

[Anonymous No.12622943]

>>12620110
Neopets was fun.

[Anonymous No.12622947]

>>12622869
Okay, I did the math, and you're right. However, I'm not convinced that rate of incidence for depression is actually increasing, and I'm not convinced that the rate of incidence increasing is even an undesirable thing, because clearly people who ARE happy are EXTREMELY happy compared to people in the past.

[Anonymous No.12622958]

>>12622936
Religion isn't as old as our instincts. The existence of other animals proves this.

[Anonymous No.12622971]

>>12622936
Religion isn't as old as instinct. The existence of other animals proves this.

[Anonymous No.12623040]

>>12622971
>Religion isn't as old as instinct.
Unprovable

Humans aren't animals.

[Anonymous No.12623047]

>>12623040
>Humans aren't animals
Objectively false

[Anonymous No.12623058]

>>12620213
This is total bullshit anthropologists surveyed papau. New Guinea early into integration and found no shortage of fucked up psychology. Why on earth educated society seems to idealize the squalor of uncivilized man is a mystery.

[Anonymous No.12623073]

>>12622931
Africans are well aware, it doesn't take much. They are too poor, war-stricken and lack the political institutions to do anything. The economic game we play pretty much transfers all the power of nation-states that are 'behind' to intergovernmental organizations and ultimately the 'western' countries that control them. Africans have almost no political power in the world stage. The average non-destitute African knows more than the average educated Westerner, I'd say.

[Anonymous No.12623089]

>>12622802
I've met alot of people like you. This is why I prefer classical psychedelics with some coke to mda/mdma

[Anonymous No.12623146]

>>12623073
I am a proud black man and I think that white people could learn a thing or two from my people. Learn the philosophy of uBuntu and be as forgiving as Nelson Mandela.

[Anonymous No.12623170]

>>12623089
Nothing wrong with molly. Chronic yokers end up with comparable health problems. We all have our preferred methods of inflicting brain damage on ourselves. Life is a great coarsening, a gradual numbing and dumbing down until death

[Anonymous No.12623176]

>>12622328
>WHAT DO WE CALL THE OPPOSITE OF AUTISM?

what the fuck
my mind is blown

[Anonymous No.12623207]

>>12622328
>There's no disorder without an opposite disorder.
What the fuck kind of idealistic pure theory nonsense is this?

[Anonymous No.12623213]

>>12622328
Calm down there Plato.
Even if you opposite theory were true, schizophrenia would be the obvious candidate.

[Anonymous No.12623214]

>>12623040
>Unprovable
There are species on the planet today much older than us. It's already proven.

>Humans aren't animals.
In what sense? As in, our needs are different than their's? Doesn't matter. We created religion out of instinct, which means instinct predates religion, not the other way around.

[Anonymous No.12623243]

>>12623207
>What the fuck kind of idealistic pure theory nonsense is this?
I guess they call it "autism" ;-).

>>12623213
Interesting.

[Anonymous No.12623246]

>>12622328
>WHAT DO WE CALL THE OPPOSITE OF AUTISM?
It's called being non-white

[Anonymous No.12623256]

>>12623243
Good one

[Anonymous No.12623270]

>>12623243
It actually really is interesting.
Not only are there psychological differences they are also physiological opposites too.

[Anonymous No.12623320]

>>12622328
Define autism and you'll have an opposite.

[Anonymous No.12623330]

>>12623170
yea I'm still a pretty casual drug user,(I trip hardcore) I've binged on just about everything but never for too long save for weed and cool kid adderalls. I'm probably about to move to the place- I always do drugs at. So that will likely change.
>Life is a great coarsening, a gradual numbing and dumbing down until death
Now this I disagree with. I think that life grows as it ages, and living develops toward the general. It gives old people that weird meta-lifestyle.

[Anonymous No.12623376]

>>12623270
Unironically interesting. Learned something new today. Thanks.

>>12623320
One textbook example of an autistic trait is emotional illiteracy. What is its opposite? Telepathy? Wow. I wonder how psychiatrists cure that. Sorry, but I cannot conceive any sensible opposite disorder of autism on my own. Thankfully, anon >>12623270 is offering some enlightening insight.

[Anonymous No.12623437]

>>12623376
>What is its opposite?
Some kind of hyperempathy.

[Anonymous No.12623480]

>>12623437
Telepathy or hyperempathy, neither sounds like something the world needs less of.

[Anonymous No.12623481]

>>12622947
>Okay, I did the math, and you're right. However, I'm not convinced that rate of incidence for depression is actually increasing,
It is, but this could be through concept creep
>and I'm not convinced that the rate of incidence increasing is even an undesirable thing,
The disability burden is how much it costs us for any disease. Depression's burden on the economy is growing so fast (and likely through bad practice like overtreatment or overdiagnosis or interchangeability with being an alcoholic or parasite etc) that it should be taken notice of, but so far we have just thrown more money into the system that costs us even more money every time we feed it.
>because clearly people who ARE happy are EXTREMELY happy compared to people in the past.
They're not. More people are on amphetamines, but none of them are taking them at doses or in compounds that would make them ecstatic compared to their introduction. More people are dying of opiates, but they're probably counted as depressed too in a lot of stats, and that's nothing new either. People used be happy in the past, they weren't all half depressed in the middle ages, and fully depressed at the birth of Christ, and downright suicidal in the Ur valley. More people of the overall population think they are depressed now and take days off work because of it than cancer patients do. That's a noticeable shift in the past decades. It's not because we got really really good at the other diseases. It is a bad thing because the money we spend on it could go to other diseases if we stopped feeding it all that money instead at ever increasing rates.

[Anonymous No.12623491]

>>12623480
Hyperempathy would make you socially dysfunctional just like autism would, but in the opposite manner.

[Anonymous No.12623496]

>>12622328
>WHAT DO WE CALL THE OPPOSITE OF AUTISM
Nymphomania

[Anonymous No.12623500]

Things just keep getting more and more bizarre from the middle classes up, the mind can crack under the absurd complexities of modern social function. For example, you meet a transvestite, having still thought somewhere in your mind that they are just some kind of joke that didn't really exist. Everyone simply tries to ignore the elephant in the room, pretending that this man in the dress is a woman despite his stubble and voice... if you violate this standard, you violate the new contract and can expect swift excommunication. Liberal humanism has done its best to deracinate every interraction you can have with another human being. Race and nation is taboo: camaraderie is replaced by formal compliance. You had best pretend that the metics are just the same as you. It goes to follow that social dysfunction is natural in societies as ours.

[Anonymous No.12623519]

>>12623481
>It is
Oh okay. But then you have this >>12621970
and this >>12622560
which make a far more compelling argument than just "it is."

>They're not.
>Let me now talk about all the miserable people today.
You don't actually know who the happy people are today and the lives they lead, do you?

[Anonymous No.12623539]

>>12623519
>which make a far more compelling argument than just "it is."
The posts you linked deal with concept creep, and I expanded beyond just differences in editions (you can read Spitzer and Fletcher, the editors of different DSMs, criticisms of creep resulting from their own work) and I also included the possibility of outright fraud impacting on the burden. Read a full sentence.
>>12623519
>You don't actually know who the happy people are today and the lives they lead, do you?
All of them? No. There are billions of them and I prefer a smaller social group than that. You must be really tired if you do.

[Anonymous No.12623550]

>>12623539
>Fletcher
Frances not Fletcher.

[Anonymous No.12623565]

>>12623539
>I also included the possibility of outright fraud impacting on the burden.
You also asserted that it is. The bottom line is that this assertion is hollow.

>All of them? No.
And evidently, none of the ones who live lives so fantastic there's no possible way they could have had such fantastic lives before the latter half of the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.12623614]

>>12620087
Sampling bias. Also, stigma around it has drastically decreased. This is a real result of the efforts of public health officials and activists. It has improved suicide rates in sampled communities.
Also, law of unintended consequences- talking about it in general is new (and in my opinion beneficial but that may be controversial on 4channel since it's mostly populated by nihilistic zoomers posting at alarmingly high rates for their age, wtf kind of kid has that type of free time are they all orphans) and it's one of the most famously bullshat topics in general. To great harm, and benefit to those who leverage it well. Not talking about depressed people allows us to conveniently put "there go I but for the grace of god" out of your mind. Better then than me anyway. This and not bothering to talk to pros, and general increasing antiintellectualism leads to foggy definitions and lots of myths among the public. The general catastrophizing and mythification also serves to make the whole thing seem less mundane than it is. It could never happen to me, I'm not a tortured artist/actual crack addict/emo kid from middle school.

[Anonymous No.12623616]

>>12623270
so autism is robots and schizophrenia is hippies
and there's more and more
we are diverging

[Anonymous No.12623617]

>>12623565
>You also asserted that it is. The bottom line is that this assertion is hollow
The WHO asserted that depression has the largest burden of disease worldwide, and they are in charge of making such assertions. You can question their methodology when you are competent in statistics.
>>12623565
>d evidently, none of the ones who live lives so fantastic there's no possible way they could have had such fantastic lives before the latter half of the 20th century.
Unfortunately for this argument, humans evolved with opioid and dopamine receptors, not iPod receptors. Many of the diseases we have tamed back in the past century, such as syphilis, make you deliriously happy in ways you can't buy from even the most crooked concierge doctor. We haven't made anything that gets you happier than your brain receptors getting tickled by things you can get from plant foraging.

[Anonymous No.12623622]

>>12623376
...sociopathy's attributes of increased social awareness and excellent interpersonal communication skills?

[Anonymous No.12623659]

>>12623270
>schizophrenia – increased responsiveness to gaze; female pattern digit ratio; high incidence of MTF trans women
The psychological agenda behind huge 2D and 3D eyes in anime and Hollywood productions is now making sense: reduction of rational brain (autism), induction of emotional brain (schizophrenia), depopulation through emasculation, social control through docility.

Also schizophrenic paintings of cats come to mind.

[Anonymous No.12623678]

>>12623659
And to further push the dichotomy, autists are attracted to anime for those features!
We're trying to correct our own split.

Also
>shcizophrenic paintings of cats
what?

[Anonymous No.12623710]

>>12623617
>You can question their methodology when you are competent in statistics.
I'll question their methodology up until it's fully outlined, assuming it's sound. Then I won't question, I'll just throw it in the trash, where I suspect it belongs.

>We haven't made anything that gets you happier than your brain receptors getting tickled by things you can get from plant foraging.
Wow. If you seriously think this...

Firstly, the happiness you are talking about here is the most base, unrefined, and unsophisticated form of it we could possibly talk about. Some retard getting high or blowing his load on a pretty girl's face isn't experiencing the same kind of happiness the winner of the Olympics is going to be experiencing in their moment of triumph, and never will, no matter what the retard dreams about in his hallucinations, and to assert otherwise is to essentially disregard the entire realm of psychology and its bearing on humans and be a decadent nihilist through and through.

Secondly, the consistency of such a feeling over lapses of time, and the length of those lapses, contributes to the dictation of its overall intensity. Some neanderthal foraging for some fungi or some shit might be enjoying himself in the moment, but does the neanderthal know at all how to maintain his joy over the span of 50 years? Likely not, if he even lives that long. Meanwhile, there are plenty of people today who DO know how to remain consistently joyous for 50 years, and even much longer than that, momentary exceptions caused by uncommon circumstance (like the death of a loved one) not included of course.

If you want to reduce the human experience to muh chemicals bullshit and some real simple ways of life, go right ahead, but this just makes you ignorant and a disgusting nihilist, not correct in any way about how humans can and can't live today and how they were living in the past.

[Anonymous No.12623928]

>>12621457
There is everything wrong with social media unless you mean 4channel

[Anonymous No.12623978]

>>12621817
>Why does increase in labor-efficient technology leave people with less free time than serfdom?
Look up David Graeber and what he wrote about bullshit jobs.
He says we have been remarkably efficient at creating totally pointless, useless and avoidable jobs over the last few decades, while also maintaining a culture extremely valuing work for the sake of working, even if the job is total BS.

[Anonymous No.12623991]

>>12623928
It depends on how you use it. I like staying connected with artists I admire and there are pages dedicated to sharing specific content which can be cool and a nice way to find new things to read or explore. I also appreciate its ability to help people network and find opportunities. But most people don't use it in any positive way, for sure.

[Anonymous No.12623992]

>>12623622
>sociopathy as the opposite of autism
That's another good hypothesis.

>>12623678
>We're trying to correct our own split.
Except when we are... homoerotic? I'm not sure where I would locate on this landscape because I am turned on by mature female faces (mostly) and by puerile anime faces (sometimes). However loli faces, Pixar faces (Elsa "Frozen") and millennial "selfie queen" faces are my big turn-offs. I detest them. Hence I attacked OP in this thread. As far as the question of autism versus schizophrenia goes, my brain appears to be equally analytical and emotional. I am very divergent from neurotypical though... so divergent that the 4chan police often accuses me of being from Reddit or Tumblr! They also call me a Jew and a faggot and tell me to kill myself. That shows the extent of my aberration.

[Anonymous No.12624006]

>>12623991
No one uses shit on the internet ‘xorrectly’. According to the twitter ceo from that recent Rogan podcast people don’t even leave their own twitter feed. Echo chambers are real and that’s where all this crazy sjw nonsense comes from nowadays. 4chan has echo chambers all over too , /pol/ obviously comes to mind especially

[Anonymous No.12624019]

>>12624006
It's possible to use it to your benefit, but I don't doubt that the vast majority don't do that.

[Anonymous No.12624095]

Because it hurts

[Anonymous No.12624101]

>>12620087
Theres money to be made in fabricating sickness and madness that doesnt really exist , this is very obvious

[Anonymous No.12624106]

>>12624101
It sucks that the only countries where people dress like this are also countries where people aren't pale.
AKA I'd stick out like a sore thumb.

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