/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12610685]

What's lit opinion on the marxist argument that capitalism will replace all workers with robots only to find people lack the income to buy their products and society will collapse?

[Anonymous No.12610692]

>>12610685
>asexual
>antinatalist
>suicidal drug user that's likely going to an hero soon

I hope the world goes to shit, honestly. Not my problem.

[Anonymous No.12610694]

doesnt make sense since according to marx all the profit comes from exploiting labor so if there are no workers then capitalists would have no incentive to produce the stuff in the first place, yeah marxism is dumb

[Anonymous No.12610695]

>>12610685
How is that a marxist argument?

[Anonymous No.12610734]

Automation will ruin us no matter what ideology we follow

[Anonymous No.12610739]

>>12610734
yeah the washing machine fucking ruined civilization

[Anonymous No.12610760]

>>12610739
Fuck you asshole, my son ate tide pods and almost fucking died.

[Anonymous No.12610764]

>>12610685
It's why I studied automation in uni. Accelerate the problem until it's big enough that it has to be confronted.

"But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade." -Marx

[Anonymous No.12610769]

>>12610760
>almost
What a shame

[Anonymous No.12610770]

>>12610760
ya but how is he at doing the floss?

[Anonymous No.12610771]

>>12610739
>automate role of housewives
>women get bored
>get feminism
Fuck washing machines

[Anonymous No.12610781]

>>12610685
>brah, the economy is dynamic, bruh. Technology kills old jobs but it creates many new ones!!!!1one

[Anonymous No.12610782]

>>12610770
>>12610769
You people are revolting. What if you lost a child to the Tide Pod Challenge...

[Anonymous No.12610787]

>>12610771
Feminism and the increased female labor was an inevitable development for countries trying to maximize capital growth. Culture and autonomy are being slowly replaced by the needs of the System.

[Anonymous No.12610793]

>>12610782
tidepod challenge is played out bro, that boiling water one is the new hotness

[Anonymous No.12610800]

>>12610787
this already happened 10,000 years ago with agriculture, its not new, the guy wrote this is a former cia pretending to be a childish anarchist, but still worth a read if u spend a lot of time whining about technology n shit

[Anonymous No.12610804]

>>12610685
>he marxist argument that capitalism will replace all workers with robots only to find people lack the income to buy their products and society will collapse
This isn't a Marxist argument
t. Marxist

[Anonymous No.12610818]

automation and machine learning ain't replacing shit, its all hype from lame techbros tryna scare up funding from retarded mba vcs

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oEULhtSEDhe No.12610887]

>>12610818
Dipshit take, anon
It does replace the majority of the workers. People are getting laid off now. It CAN replace 99% or jobs but something is going to happen before that.

[Anonymous No.12610905]

>>12610887
>unemployment is at the lowest its been since the boomers were born
>hurr workers are getting replaced

this is your worldview on fakenews, utterly braindead npc take

[Anonymous No.12610929]

>>12610764
based accelerationist Marxist

[Anonymous No.12610937]

>>12610929
gay quote try this instead:

"computers are useless, they can only answer questions" t. notorious toxic male

[Anonymous No.12610938]

>>12610818
What a complete fucking lie. As soon as 5g is implemented and self-driving trucks become a thing you will have outright the world's most numerous job (truck driving) overtaken by machines. Would even argue that even a AI can take over the job of a judge and do even better since its more imparcial. The only jobs that arent doomed in the foreseeable future are CEOs and STEM.

[Anonymous No.12610946]

>>12610685
Just go back to farming and kill brown people

[Anonymous No.12610949]

>>12610938
>CEOs and STEM
algorithms will eventually do these jobs better too

[Anonymous No.12610952]

>/lit/
>durrrr science is stoopid, it doesn't unnastan metaphysics and philosophy of science
>also /lit/
>durrrrr black box algorithms that recognize features and patterns and use a formalized version of scientific methodology and epistemology will take over our jerbsss, full communism nao

which is it /lit/? seems as though analytic philosophy and the sciences had the last laugh if you admit that machines will take over work that includes artistic endeavours

[Anonymous No.12610953]

>>12610938
>STEM.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oEULhtSEDhe No.12610954]

>>12610905
>Obama ended the recession
>there isn’t a homeless crisis
>MSM would never lie about the cooked books in labor statistics

/lit/ used to be a pretty smart board

[Anonymous No.12610957]

>>12610685
The service sector has long eclipsed industry in terms of economic impact, and services are harder to replace with robots.
Also, industrialization and automatisation has for centuries reduced manpower requirements, it's nothing new; we've been living in it for 150 years.

[Anonymous No.12610963]

>>12610954
>my lame marxist predictions all turned out false...
>no it is the bureau of labor statistics who is wrong!

ok man keep waiting for jesus to come back, i mean for the revolution, or whatever, i'm sure itll be here any day now

[Anonymous No.12610976]

>>12610952
>/lit/ is one person

[Anonymous No.12610993]

>>12610938
>self-drivin cars r gonna take our jerbs!

learn 3 code!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oEULhtSEDhe No.12610998]

>>12610963
Nooo

The trend is for more and more automation to unfold, faster and more comprehensively, this will eventually lead to some sort of changes. In what direction we don’t know, but we can sure as hell see they don’t give a fuck about our health and general wellbeing.
The main reason we’re experiencing a homeless crisis is the jobs shipped overseas. After the Great Recession started they do not count people who have stopped looking for work. They cook the books, they give fakes results. Stop being an idiot

[Anonymous No.12611004]

>>12610938

[Anonymous No.12611010]

>>12610998
You're forgetting about the part where people and workers are cheap, cheaper than complex robots and the people maintaining them.
There's little reason this would change, or the pace of such change accelerate.

[Anonymous No.12611016]

>>12610998
yes everyone who isn't a retard knows the difference between u3 and u6 in the unemployment stats u fuckin pleb, u6 is also low

>they shipped the jobs overseas
>oh noes the chinamen are takin our jurbs

so you support trump in renegotiating trade with china i presume? but wait, i thought robots were stealing or jobs not the yellow peril? either way learn3code hillbilly

[Anonymous No.12611019]

>>12611010
Just because you say something doesn’t mean it’s true. Robots are a lot cheaper than humans, depending on the job, of course.

[Anonymous No.12611024]

>>12611010
exactly, if u can get a "undocumented american" for less than the cost of a robot why the fuck would you bother with that, when you mexican wears out just hire a new one at no cost, cant do that with robots, they have to be repaired and that cost money

[Anonymous No.12611028]

>>12611019
Explains why robots have already replaced so many jobs that cannot be automated incredibly easily.
Oh wait.

[Anonymous No.12611030]

>>12611010
>>12611024
workers need breaks, they can only work a dozen or so hours a day, they get sick, die, retire, ect. robots are forever

[Anonymous No.12611032]

>>12611019
some robots are cheaper than humans, like washing machines, street lights, and wood chippers etc. but somehow people still have jobs, weird.

[Anonymous No.12611035]

>>12611028
>if automation hasn't taken over every job yet it will never take over any other jobs
retard logic

[Anonymous No.12611036]

>>12611030
gee if only there was some way to rotate workers out in shifts every eight hours or so...wow this could be a management breakthrough!

you are so fucking stupid. truly.

[Anonymous No.12611037]

They'll introduce the UBI and corporations will subsist on that guaranteed income in the form of debt payments. In essence, the average Western citizen will fully budget their UBI to all their various consumer spending: car, cell phone, laptop, store card, etc. They will never actually own anything but continually pay for it in a grand farcical game.

The UBI may as well flow directly from the government to the corporations, like a direct deposit of tax dollars.

[Anonymous No.12611040]

>>12611035
>advances in automation are different this time and not like the last 200 years of automation!

[Anonymous No.12611041]

>>12611028
>that cannot be automated incredibly easily.
You answered your own question. This has nothing to do with how cheap they are. Given a job that can be automated, a robot is cheaper.

[Anonymous No.12611044]

>>12611036
oh so you don't need one worker to replace a robot, you need several. wow good point anon really selling your case

[Anonymous No.12611045]

>>12611041
then why does every restaurant have a mexican guy in the back washing dishes instead of a robot

[Anonymous No.12611051]

>>12611045
I wasn’t aware that dish-washing robots were readily available, and that the only reason why they weren’t being used is because the store owners rejected them.

[Anonymous No.12611053]

>>12611040
this is an accurate statement. AI and distributed networking opens a swath of opportunities to automate jobs we never imagined possible

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oEULhtSEDhe No.12611055]

>>12611010
Well, yes. That’s where I am now. I am cheap labor.
You ever work ata video rental store, then watch it close, then work at a music and dvd store, then a book store, then Sears. The big box stores are eating everything. Partly it’s online, but mostly it’s cheap shit Walmart and Target etc. they don’t need thirty greeter.
You’re wrong about this not changing.

>>12611016
>THE GOVERNMENT WOULDN’T LIE TO ME! THEY JUST WOULDN’T.

[Anonymous No.12611056]

>>12611044
how old are you? i have trouble believing an adult how has had any kind of employment could be this fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.12611062]

>>12611056
>yup, I don't give a DARN what the numbers say, I don't care about statistics. I care about elbow grease and a hard days work
boomer.jpeg

[Anonymous No.12611065]

>>12611062
the numbers say unemployment is at the lowest it's been in our lifetime, that's what the numbers say.

[Anonymous No.12611069]

>>12611055
>tripfag admits to being an uneducated retail worker with no skill

lmao what a piece of shit you are

[Anonymous No.12611075]

>>12611065
so what? do you think that we have hit some sort of technological limit which won't be surpassed in 6 months like the last hundred technological limits? Nearly 2% of the US would be effectively unemployed with the advent of commercial self driving cars, and that's just the tip of the tip of the iceburg.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oEULhtSEDhe No.12611077]

>>12611069

[Anonymous No.12611092]

>>12611077
>fat dyke who works at walmart post clip from shitty hungarian movie to try to seem cultured

where did u see than on some lesbo tumblr, yeah u are trash

[Anonymous No.12611111]

[Anonymous No.12611143]

>>12611111
wow so wages peaked right before the 1965 immigration act allowed in a massive influx of unskilled immigrants due to prioritizing family rather than skillset or national origin. weird.

[Anonymous No.12611146]

>>12610685
Capitalist societies in the West will never collapse because the Middle Ages was essentially a eugenics program that distilled the population down to those who were driven by their dedication to the faith. That tendency didn't disappear, it simply shifted gears. Capitalists are the modern day Knights of the Round Table, relentless in their faith that the system will persevere, and it is precisely their faith that makes the system persevere. Systems are nothing without the people that make them; for the system to fail, the people must fail. Western civilization's history indicates that its people won't fail.

[Anonymous No.12611160]

>fat marxist hillbilly complains chinamen are takin her jerbs and posts a chart showing wages drop during increased immigration
>rages agains the drumpf

well like marx said ideology stops workers from doing what's in the best interest...hmmm...

[Anonymous No.12611167]

>>12611143
>meanwhile GDP skyrocketed
4chan has single handedly convinced me that racism is for brainlets; thanks for that /pol/

[Anonymous No.12611193]

>>12611111

[Anonymous No.12611201]

>>12611167
well then all is well and u can stop being an angsty lil shit

[Anonymous No.12611212]

>>12611201
you realize those charts are exactly what Marx would have predicted, right?

[Anonymous No.12611221]

>>12611111
Quints confirm capitalism is just great.

[Anonymous No.12611239]

>>12611212
yeah when capitalists make a profit and they reinvest it that increases productivity and results in a more prosperous economy, which is why amazon is so rarely "profitable" because instead of buying extra yachts or whatever saudi sluggards do he reinvests everything and grows the company thus creating more wealth and more jobs, just imagine if u had bought amazon stock in the 2000s instead of all of those anime dvds, you could pay off your student loans and buy a house, but ur not too good with money which is why ur marxist, oh well such is life

holy moly look at that chart no thats not 374% thats 372,000% lmao jeff bezos is truly blessed by god and so are all us who were continent with our finances and purchases shares

[Anonymous No.12611313]

>>12610685
I wonder if Trump was wise in building a wall. If in the future you have a bunch of displaced peoople given all the scary environmental data coming out, governments collapsing, mob rule, morality can snap very quickly when social order is just non-existent. There's going to be water shortages within my lifetime, I worry about it too much and I feel it is true, though maybe there isn't enough data. He could be right in taking pre-emptive measures like that.

[Anonymous No.12611330]

>>12610694
>>12610695
>>12610739

God damn none of you ever read any Marx or Hegel. Marx applied Hegel's idea of the dialectic, where elements in a historical phase of philosophy would contradict each other, eventually cause their own demise, and in that collapse create the next stage, and applied that to the economic and material history of humanity. Thus he looked for contradictions in capitalism that will lead to its own demise and lead to the next economic system (as feudalism and mercantilism gave way before)

Forget machines and let's just acknowledge this: any successful business will be trying to cut costs as much as possible to make more profit. Labor is always a main cost. Business owners may hire women, or immigrants, or outsource their labor to another country so that they pay less for labor. But the problem is that the laborers are not just producers but also consumers, and as their wages get driven down by methods such as these (or the business owners paying to get politicians in office that keep down the minimum wage etc) they don't have as much money to consumer with. Take for example the 2008 crash. Leading up to this wages had been depressed for decades compared to corporate profit growth. In order to keep consumption going then, there was a giant blow up in the amount of credit given so that people could continue to buy even though they didn't have money (for example subprime mortgages). Since the laborers (producers) were paid so little, they were not able to also be sufficient consumers, debts were defaulted on, and there was an economic collapse. This conflict between needing wealthy consumers and desiring to drive down the payment to the producers who are those very same consumers is a contradiction inherent to capitalism and always will be. It was overcome in precious years through things like slavery and ultra cheap labor in places like China and South America. But as the economy becomes global and equalized the problem will no longer have anywhere to outsource itself to.

Also a washing machine is a machine yes, but for many people it is something they own in their own home for personal convenience and is not a "means of production". Personal use of a laundry machine doesn't compare to using a machine to generate a profit off of making/doing something and selling that to other people.

And ya >>12610694 you described the problem Marxism describes but then called it dumb so... Dunno what to tell you. Guess you're calling yourself dumb.

[Anonymous No.12611372]

>>12611239
>us who purchases shares
pics or stfu

[Anonymous No.12611391]

>>12611330
so if all wages for all jobs are forced down to subsistence level then no one will want to do hard jobs or jobs that take years of training, so in order to hire lawyers, doctors, masons, etc. you will have to pay more than subsistence, which in addition to creating a bourgeois middle class to assert legal and moral pressure on the ruling class, also creates a labor market, where workers compete for wages... wow its exactly like the last 250 years of capitalism, and the next 250 years of capitalism...

[Anonymous No.12611567]

>>12611146
>Western civilization's history indicates that its people won't fail.
Considering the demographic trends, there aren't going to be any "western" people.

[Anonymous No.12611575]

>>12611167
>implying gdp is important

[Anonymous No.12611579]

>>12610685
>argument that capitalism will replace all workers with robots only to find people lack the income to buy their products and society will collapse
think about this for two whole seconds and you'll realize it doesn't make any sense.

[Anonymous No.12611584]

>>12611567
There will be, just not as many. And the ones that are left will run things.

[Anonymous No.12611973]

>>12611330
Sweet David Harvey-style posturing, my friend. You forgot your lovely little graph. Truly, a paragon of academic consensus.

[Anonymous No.12611993]

>>12611111
Oh no, purchasing power per capita has remained constant, we are truly in a crisis of capitalism!

[Anonymous No.12612014]

>>12611111
Oh no, purchasing power per capita has remained constant, we are truly in a crisis of capitalism! Quick, bring out the household data spreadsheet so we can pull a fast one and claim that wages are stagnant!

[Anonymous No.12612036]

>>12610929
>based
>accelerationist
lmao
>marxist
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.12612052]

>>12611575
>What the fuck does per capita mean?

[Anonymous No.12612127]

>>12611111
>>12611330
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0MaY33LJZ0&t=5m40s

[Anonymous No.12612339]

>>12611330
Thank you

[Anonymous No.12612370]

>>12610685
not an argument

[Anonymous No.12613745]

the idea is that automation expels the value-producing component in the production process (i.e., human labor).