/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12590030]

>Learn French for 2 years to read Proust like /lit/ told me
>start reading Swann's Way
>Realize I am now the translator
>realize I can't possibly translate the book better for myself than someone who has been fluent in both languages their entire life can translate it for me
>pick up the English copy

Fuck you /lit/

[Anonymous No.12590034]

>>12590030
Why the fuck are You translating? Just read the fucking book if You know the language.

[Anonymous No.12590041]

>>12590030
/lit/ has a very narrow-minded view of translation practices. not once have i seen someone discussing journals about “best practices” or whatever.

[Anonymous No.12590071]

>>12590030
This "reading the original" meme is cancer. This only works if you has the language as actual second language, maybe from your parents, maybe from living in another country for years and years, and etc.
The translator always do this work better than you because he's usually in one of those scenarios before, or at least, know the language to the bone with lots and lots of study, catching historical and sociological meanings for each single word and sentence.
Of course there are shit translations, so, just search for the best translation avaiable in your language.
For exemple, once i read "The Waves" and the translation was garbage, i moved on to the original because even my poor english was better than the translation.

[Anonymous No.12590077]

>>12590071
every single*

[Anonymous No.12590102]

>>12590071
I very much agree with you. Of course there is a certain musicality that is either lost or altered in translation. Reading poetry purely in translation doesn't work nearly as well as reading prose.

[Anonymous No.12590112]

>>12590030
>translating
there's your problem. read the fucking book, don't translate it.

[Anonymous No.12590184]

>>12590034
>>12590112
Most people learn other languages as a translation of their native language. This verb means this in English. This word is the equivalent of this in English. This verb tense is the equivalent of expressing this in English. It is very hard to learn a non-native language naturally post-formative years. The only way to achieve this is to become steeped in the language. This is very difficult to achieve in an isolated setting like OP. His best bet would be to either spend years reading French children’s literature and working his way up to Proust, and watching French TV/movies, since I doubt OP can afford to move to France.

[Anonymous No.12590227]

>>12590102
True! The well known expression "lost in translation".

[Anonymous No.12590231]

French literature is shit so you aren't missing out on much either way

[Anonymous No.12590242]

>>12590030
You don't really know the language if you're "translating". You think in that language. Don't be a retard. Fucking Anglos, man.

[Anonymous No.12590252]

>>12590184
>he only way to achieve this is to become steeped in the language. This is very difficult to achieve in an isolated setting like OP. His best bet would be to either spend years reading French children’s literature and working his way up to Proust, and watching French TV/movies, since I doubt OP can afford to move to France.
It's not hard, I'm an ESLfag and I did this with English. I'm not translating when I read English, I read and think in English.

[Anonymous No.12590257]

>>12590231
What language or nation has the best literature?

[Anonymous No.12590259]

>>12590231
You're missing out on a lot, actually. French lit is one of the best in the world.

[Anonymous No.12590271]

>>12590242
>Fucking Anglos, man.

You people say this, yet here you are.

[Anonymous No.12590275]

>>12590271
>you can't like the English language and think Anglos are retards at the same time
Anon, I...

[Anonymous No.12590277]

>>12590030
Keek

[Anonymous No.12590279]

>>12590252
Yet I bet you didn’t learn in isolation. I bet you were speaking English with someone else. I bet you were learning in a classroom with others not on your own. I bet you went and lived somewhere where English was the predominant language. This is very difficult to achieve is you never speak the language aloud, with another person, and when you are simply sitting in your room with a grammar book.

[Anonymous No.12590287]

>>12590275
Well actually no, you can’t

[Anonymous No.12590305]

>>12590279
>Yet I bet you didn’t learn in isolation.
Yes, I did
> I bet you were speaking English with someone else.
Nah, only with myself. I once spoke to a tourist woman, though.
>I bet you were learning in a classroom with others not on your own.
No, my classmates are retards. I learned it on my own.
> I bet you went and lived somewhere where English was the predominant language.
Never been outside my own country.
> This is very difficult to achieve is you never speak the language aloud, with another person, and when you are simply sitting in your room with a grammar book.
You're supposed to surround yourself with that language if you want achieve fluency, you know? Movies, books, songs, all of it. And if you don't have anyone to speak it with just speak it with yourself. Practice everyday. Learn songs and texts. Or find a native speaker in the r/french subreddit or some other language-learning place from there.

[Anonymous No.12590313]

>>12590287
Yea you can.

[Anonymous No.12590319]

>>12590275
You know who was an Anglo? Shakespeare, Shakespeare was an Anglo. Milton was an Anglo? You know who else was? Herman Melville. You know who else? William Faulkner. You know who else? etc...

[Anonymous No.12590328]

>>12590319
I was talking specifically about retards. Fucking Anglos and their butthurt generalizations. Don't be a retard, Angloboy. Learn to read.

[Anonymous No.12590332]

>>12590184
Fucking brainlet.

[Anonymous No.12590403]

>>12590332
>two years of learning a language should make you fluent enough to read a sophisticated writer like Proust.

[Anonymous No.12590447]

>>12590328
You were generalizing, he was calling out specifics to undermine your generalizing.

[Anonymous No.12590483]

>>12590447
>arguing fucking semantics
I was referring to spoiled Anglos who think learning a language is an easy thing for having anything spoonfed to them in their language and those who "translate" while reading. No, faggot, I was not referring to every great Anglo writer who ever lived. Learn to read between the lines.

[Anonymous No.12590485]

>>12590403
I donm't even know how to respond to this post

[Anonymous No.12590499]

>>12590485
and clearly you also don't know how to write. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.12590521]

>>12590287
>>12590313
>>12590319
>>12590328
>>12590447
>>12590483
>>12590499
>>12590332
stop destroying this thread, manchild bitches

[Anonymous No.12590523]

>>12590403
>jumping straight into the hard works after "learning" a language for two bloody years when he can't even read without translating it first
Maybe learn to read in that language first? And start with easier books, not with the biggies.

[Anonymous No.12590530]

>>12590319
>You know who was a vegetarian? Hitler!

[Anonymous No.12590543]

>>12590071
>reading the original is a meme because I'm too retarded to commit to learning foreign languages seriously

[Anonymous No.12590551]

>>12590319
Melville was American. And once you've become American, you lose all status of being Anglo.

[Anonymous No.12590565]

>>12590521
You complain about "manchild bitches," yet here you are.

[Anonymous No.12590602]

>>12590530
Hitler's diet is actually an insightful fact of psychological depth, much like Himmler's Gita.

[Anonymous No.12590623]

>>12590551
this

[Anonymous No.12590631]

>>12590543
fuck off. i fucking speak english, my native language, french, spanish and latin

[Anonymous No.12590640]

>>12590631
and i also read in all of them, even tho i don't appreciate very much to read in spanish

[Anonymous No.12590655]

>>12590631
>>12590640
>t. "confident conversational" level
Nobody cares about your extensive B2 duolingo vocab and scant remains of A level Latin, subhuman anglotard.

[Anonymous No.12590656]

>>12590631
> i fucking speak english
Two mistakes in just 4 words. Learn proper English, faggot.

[Anonymous No.12590663]

>>12590551
Why not mention Faulkner while you're at it then. Also where do you think these retards come from? I'm one of them apparently :^)

[Anonymous No.12590677]

>>12590655
based
>>12590631
>I speak Latin
kys

[Anonymous No.12590685]

>>12590030
This has always been my view of translation. Unless I'm actually committed to attaining fluency with the language and expertise with its cultural context then there's no point in learning it (for literature at least) and I should read competent translations instead.

[Anonymous No.12590708]

Le ebin win for patricians rite??????? Fughing angloes top Kek!

/lit/ is a bad board. One of the worst

[Anonymous No.12590716]

>>12590279
>I bet you went and lived somewhere where English
4chan? Those fucking monolinguals anglos make me laugh.

[Anonymous No.12590722]

>>12590030
>all this
And you don't even start at the beginning. Are you abysmally retarded? Start with the first fucking part you douche cunt. It's excellent. Why would any motherfucker be a cunt?

[Anonymous No.12590725]

Well, this thread turned into boogers really fast.

[Anonymous No.12590765]

>>12590725
This is a sensitive topic here.

[Anonymous No.12590780]

There's literally no point in reading translated works.
It is like the difference between reading about a rainbow and seeing one.

The difference between a translated Faust and the original is immense, it's basically a different text.

Obviously, if your only experience with the language is a finished course in Doulingo, you are not going to understand much.
Reaching fluency however is entirely possible within a few years, you will not only be able to read classic literature, but also have the abillity to speak with many other people in their native tounge.

[Anonymous No.12590835]

>>12590030
Who the fuck told you you need to find a single equivalent of what you’re reading. Reading the original allows to access what the author has delivered and not what went through translator. The seemingly same worlds in different languages have actually different nuances. If you still need to translate to yourself you are not ready. It has not been long time since you started. I’d recommend beginning with something easier like L’Etranger.

[Anonymous No.12590837]

>>12590780
>There's literally no point in reading translated works.
You are littéralement dumb, my friend.

[Anonymous No.12590880]

>>12590030
>learn german for two months and a half
>start reading Sein und Zeit

[Anonymous No.12591150]

>>12590279
>grammar book.
All you have to do is consume native content. Languages are acquired not learned. "Speaking" the language with another retard who doesn't know it or memorizing verb conjugations won't help you
>I bet you were speaking English with someone else.
>I bet you went and lived somewhere where English was the predominant language.
4chan

[Anonymous No.12591156]

that's the most pseud thread ever, all this people claiming that reading the original is the only way to go. Can you guys be more pseud? So you guys only read in like... 1 or 2 languages? Do you even /lit/? literally one world of languages and literature and you guys only read in less the five languages. Do you even read philosophy? So do you perfectly understand the basic philosophy? I mean, old greek, old latin, vulgar latin, italian, french, german, japanese, chinese old and new, hindi...
Fuck off all pseuds, if you only read in originals, you do not read enough to post here

[Anonymous No.12591621]

You spent your time learning how to translate in your head instead of developing a sense for French words and idiom? wtf

[Anonymous No.12591898]

>>12590780
retardedwojak.jpg