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/lit/ - Literature

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12583108 No.12583108 [Reply] [Original]

Why have you not yet escaped the wheel of Samsara?

>> No.12583122
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12583122

I'm trying but I still have a lot of emotional attachments to the material world and desu things have been going pretty well this year so the motivation to become enlightened has been diminished. I also struggle with meditation.

>> No.12583132

I've been making some progress in non-attachment. Cut off my hair and did away with most of my possessions, quick drinking and eat one simple meal a day and practise celibacy and meditate.

>> No.12583137

>>12583108
I have found the wheel to be disrespectful to me and so have proclaimed a desire to redress Samsara as though my child. I have no desire but this; I can understand no suffering in existence except the labour of the moving wheel, the wind as destroyer of houses and spinner of prayers. My labour is unconcerned by escape. I am concerned for existence rather than this here, because that existence is my end, my nourishment.

>> No.12583179

>>12583108
In the mountains of Nepal, a day's journey from Tibet, I saw the remains of a body hacked to pieces and the birds that fed and carried this body onward. It was months after that I was told about the ceremony, shown pictures of how some people from Nepal, Tibet, and Mongolia treat the dead much like the tribes in North America. I don't think I could appreciate this event fully without giving in to despair because I had no mental image or rationalization to bracket the underlying meaning at the time. It sat with me for months before someone explained it away as a ritual, and I think maybe because of this I go back and forth between waiting for death and waiting for knowledge about my suffering.

>> No.12583185

>>12583179
you witnessed a sky burial?

>> No.12583193
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12583193

>>12583179
It's a sky burial, a common form of burying the dead in Zoroastrianism and some forms of HInduism and Buddhism.
Africans also do sky burial. Whether they want to or not, hehehe.

>> No.12583202

>>12583185
I was the only one around, but from what I was told afterwards by people who had witnessed a Sky Burial, it must have been.

>> No.12583216

It's impossible to escape but Buddhists will tell you that in the next life you'll do it.

>> No.12583235

>>12583216
what if i come back as a hungry ghost?

>> No.12583245
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12583245

>>12583235
How hungry are we talking?

>> No.12583248

If reincarnation wasn't real the thing to do as a buddhist would just be kys right?

>> No.12583255

>>12583248
exterminationism/nihilism are heresies in buddhism for some reason but never got a clear reason why, as all seems to revolve around rebirth which doesn't seem to be true

>> No.12583269

>>12583255
You've answered your own question, rebirth is fundamental to Buddhism's operations, It can't co-exist with "exterminationism".

>> No.12583275

>>12583269
but then why californian buddhists?

>> No.12583287

>>12583275
What? I'm going with a preliminary "Mappo".

>> No.12583305
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12583305

>>12583287
>Vajrayana Buddhism taught that its teaching would be popular when "iron birds are upon the sky" before its decline

>> No.12583310

>>12583305
got a source for that?

>> No.12583350

>>12583305
is Vajrayana that popular? i know some people like the sex parts because they get to be cool buddhists while being degenerates, but haven't seen it much around except for that

>> No.12583533

>>12583350
there's also the dalai lama worshipping muh oppression narrative ones that are into vajrayana.

>> No.12583725

>>12583108
Guys, I just wanted to say that I find myself much preferring Eastern philosophy to Western stuff, outside of Plato desu. Is this okay? That the former resonates with my soul, and is what I myself would have become a philosopher in the tradition of by nature if I ever became one? Compared to the latter?

I'm not trying to insult anyone or anything. Hear me out. Morality, for example, in the Dharmic religions is called "Dharma", and refers to a divine, metaphysical order which is to be adhered to (Dharma is more than that, but morality is part of it). But in Western philosophy, there are different schools of morality, which seem to treat it in a much more "worldly" manner. There's virtue ethics, there's deontology, there's utilitarianism, there's even egoism. But none seem to exalt morality to the metaphysical, divine status of Dharma, found in Hinduism, Buddhism and the rest of the Dharmic religions.

I read modern Western philosophy, and while I find it interesting in certain areas (like Hume's beliefs on causality, for example), and a good mental exercise to reflect on certain aspects of reality that you may have previously taken for granted without questioning, but I ultimately end up disgreeing with the views asserted. And it also doesn't feel like any "ultimate" truths are being reached in the end, no ultimate and enduring thesis on reality has been given, unlike with Plato or with Hinduism/Buddhism.

Basically I just love the entire ethos of Eastern philosophy - the questions it concerns itself with, the answers it gives, the aesthetic, the fact that there is a body of physical practises to follow, the emphasis on spirituality, on mastery of the mind and self-actualization, the clothing, and so on. I just feel like it is so much more "what philosophy should be".

Am I closed-minded for thinking this? Am I also a pleb, for not understanding Western ethical systems that well, for example?

Is it because I'm an Easterner, and maybe it's in my blood or something to be drawn to my own culture's philosophies? Is there such a thing as an ethnic soul, which produces people who are of a certain nature? Is that why I align with Eastern philosophy, despite being raised in the West? I don't know.

Lastly, if I'm writing a book on spirituality, designed for Westerners to follow, since I find many of them to be without spirituality in their lives. Is it okay if I use Eastern concepts in it? I don't want them to think I'm giving them a "religion", and infringing on their native Christianity or anything like that, but is it fine if I have to use terms like "Dharma" and "Brahman" when explaining what I'm explaining? Can I do this, without it being seen as indoctrinating them into Eastern "religion", which myself don't have or follow? I just follow the philosophy and practises but I don't call myself Hindu or Buddhist.

Thanks in advance, and sorry if I offended anyone for my personal preferences between the two culture's philosophies.

>> No.12583742

>>12583725
Just a quick addon:
The book seeks to explain many things relating to spirituality, like the nature of a person's ego, and the event known as "ego-death", and what a person will see when they experience that, steps on how to get themselves there, and much more - and would thereby interwoven with Sanskrit terms like aforementioned "Dharma" and so on. But I don't want it to seem I'm trying to Indianize their culture, and give them an "Indian religion", which I'm not. There will be no deities mentioned (I don't follow that stuff), but purely objective principles and concepts. I hope that makes sense.

>> No.12583744

>>12583725
fag

>> No.12583803

>>12583269
This is why I decided against pursuing Buddhism in any meaningful way. I simply don't believe in rebirth and I see no reason to.

>> No.12583807

>>12583803
Oblivion is impossible, you've been duped by the West which is nothing but the program of the Wheel justifying itself to itself, your metaphysics is shit

>> No.12583838

>>12583179
A monk chops the corpse before feeding it to the scavengers. The pieces are left until only clean bones remain, and then those are collected and retrieved to the relatives of the deceased. Maybe you saw a sky burial or just the corpse of someone who got in an accident or was murdered.

>> No.12583916

>>12583108
Because it is extremely difficult to abandon my attachments to things of this world. Not material things, which I don't care for, but friends and interests and other items of sentimental attachment. It's very, VERY hard. I've cried so much, after reaching states of reduced-ego enough to recognize myself as never having been anybody, and all that I know and own merely an illusion. That I never had family, or friends, or passions, or memories, or anything else, in the ultimate sense. I feel so compelled to loving literally everyone that I see, and it's again a difficult state to live in since the people around me are much more worldly-minded, and may not understand why a stranger is being so abnormally sweet to them. I am rambling here. Basically, I COULD ascend, in the sense that I understand the principles to do so. But to actually bring myself to sever these attachments my identity is made of...is an extremely painful proposition, and I really want to wait until my later life before doing so. While I'm young, I'll live with the background metaphysical understandings that I've learnt of on the nature of Self and Reality, but will still have my few friends, connections to my family, and still partake in my community, and still wear an outward face to the society around me. But in later years, I will ascend more properly, and if I can manage, before my death (assuming it happens in old age), I'll detach completely from everything I know and love and hopefully attain Moksha. It will take quite some time to get there though, certainly... :(

>> No.12583944

>>12583807
Explain why I should believe in it then.

>> No.12584098

Because the sutures are too loose

>> No.12584115

>>12583108
Enlightenment sounds boring.

>> No.12584117

>>12583108
Most people don't, at least not in a single lifetime. It requires lots of effort and discipline, if you believe the Buddhists. But they also teach that any positive steps taken increase one's spiritual standing in the next life, so any good can build into an upward trajectory leading to eventual liberation.

>> No.12584138

>>12583725
Universal divine morality is definitely a thing in ancient Greek philosophy, it was sometimes identified with the Logos, which made its way into Christianity, hence the belief in following Jesus as the ultimate example of how to live.

>> No.12584139

Why would anyone choose Buddhism over Christianity. Only one of them grants a good afterlife in both scenarios.

>> No.12584154

>>12584139
Not really, if you're a Christian and Buddhism is true, you'll be stuck in Samsara since you're attached to worship of God. If you're particularly bad, you can end up in a hell realm. So there are bad "afterlives" in Buddhism although none are eternal.

>> No.12584158

>>12584154
And yet, Buddhists are attached to Nirvana. Either you’re mistaken or Buddhism contradicts itself. Either way, my point still stands. Being a good Christian is more pragmatic than being a good Buddhist.

>> No.12584170

>>12584158
>And yet, Buddhists are attached to Nirvana.

It isn't.

>>12584139
because buddhist ontology is infinitely more sophisticated than theology

>> No.12584183

>>12584170
>It isn't
Wow, much sophistication

>> No.12584195

>>12584183
>If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him.

>> No.12584211

>>12584170
>because buddhist ontology is infinitely more sophisticated than theology
Cringe

>> No.12584213

>>12584139
>>12584158
Pragmatism doesn't work because your faith needs to be sincere, Pascal's wager is bullshit. You look, as Eckhart said, "upon God with the eyes with which they look upon a cow."

"They want to love God the way they love a cow that you love because it gives you milk and cheese. This is how people behave who want to love God because of external wealth or inner comfort; but they do not love God properly: rather, they love their self interest.”

That's not going to cut it and neither is fake repentance.

>> No.12584237

>>12584213
>they love their self interest.
This is supposed to be a bad thing? Why?

>> No.12584244

>>12584213
My faith is sincere, but before I improved my faith, I recognized that Christianity is superior to Buddhism, so I devoted myself to Christianity and became a genuine believer. I oils advise the same to everyone on the fence. Buddhism is a waste of time. It’s more of a philosophy than a religion. Just as it’s propped up by reason, it can be discarded by reason. How can anyone have faith in a man, Siddhartha Gautama?

>> No.12584253

>>12584237
Because God sees right through your egotism and will send you to hell instead of heaven, lad, and rightly so. Being a selfish person is not in your self-interest.

>> No.12584256
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12584256

>>12584244
>buddhism is propped up by reason
it's based in personal experience, not pure reason.

>> No.12584263

>>12584253
Just curious, do you know any verses that reflect what you’re saying?

>> No.12584270

>>12584256
Experience doesn’t lead you to the belief in Nirvana or reincarnation. It just leads you to the obvious truths shared by many other philosophies and religions: attaching yourself to materialistic desires is bad. Buddhism is a joke started by a man having a mid-life crisis.

>> No.12584275

>>12584158
This is directly addressed in Buddhist texts. The desire for liberation is a stepping stone, since most people can't renounce all attachments immediately, it's a good place to start. Eventually, you renounce all desires.

>> No.12584277

>>12584244
Amitabha buddha is basically a saviour that will send you to heaven, guayin is basically Mary mother figure that will shop you compassion. Theravadin call this "folk buddhism", but they will quite literally pray to different buddhas for blessings or magical enchantments. This is when I stopped wanting to become a buddhist and just went to the catholic church instead.

>> No.12584288

Detachment is good up to a point. Why would I want to be detached from my family, for example?

>> No.12584294

>>12584288
Because they're all cunts

>> No.12584311

>>12584263
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

>> No.12584325

>>12584311
The fact that 'others' is plural hints that this was aimed at your fellow man, not God.

>> No.12584338

>>12584275
>Eventually, you renounce all desires.
As if that’s such a good thing. A man free from all desires is no different from a man who doesn’t exist. How is that blissful? How is that better than desiring God and being near to Him in the afterlife? Not all desires lead to suffering.

>> No.12584393

>>12584338
the Christian reveals his true colors when he conflates individuality with desire

>> No.12584403

>>12584288
because otherwise you build your identity on sand, detachment =/= apathy, it's only the recognition that identities are the products (narrativizations) of contingent and impermenant conditions

>> No.12584424

>>12583108
Due to the karma I racked up during my previous lives, duh.

>> No.12584452

>>12583803
Except is still the best thing you could do to make yourself genuinely happy. I meditate everyday because payoff is the best when compared with other endeavors.

>> No.12584944

>>12584338
In Buddhism desire lead to suffering

>> No.12584977

I think that buddhism has a lot more to do with the liberation of desire than people realize. You filter your desire through all sort of machines that cause pain for yourself and others. If you meditate, you realize you don't need to invest your energy into these machines. That's the important thing: you don't NEED to invest. You can invest to sustain yourself, but once you come to understand the nature of desire, this becomes a choice.

>> No.12584990

>>12583108
because sitting in a room, breathing, and staring at the blackness behind my eyes is about the most pussy shit ive ever heard w/r/t to maximizing my will and actually participating in the natural cosmological order. literally can be more enoightened getting a nice chest pump at the gym or running a 5K

>> No.12584993

>>12584138
Oh I agree with that, especially in the way Plato clearly held the Good to be an objective, metaphysical essence the same as something like Justice, and that these were not merely worldly, human concepts applied to human affairs. But you won't find such exalted treatments within later Western philosophy, from what I've seen.

>> No.12585000
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12585000

>> No.12585113

>>12585000
If this were meant to portray Buddhism negatively here, it has only done the opposite. If it was to include humor into this thread, then yeah this is pretty dang funny.

>> No.12585153

>>12585000
christians do nothing but blur the line between faith and fear, what a terrible sentiment to build a spiritulity upon

>> No.12585175

>>12585000
Although I like Christianity, focusing this much on the afterlife and hell is cringe.

>> No.12585196

>>12585000
Always good for a kek

>> No.12585224
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12585224

>>12583916
shitposting on 4chin is also one of these non material earthly attachments that are pretty hard to shake.

>> No.12585231

>>12583916
Sounds like you're in the dark night. You just need to keep an open mind and keep going. Detachment doesn't mean disconnection. Quite the opposite.

>> No.12585341

>>12583350
Tibet basically saved indian buddhism from destruction. They like inherited the buddhist library of alexandria. Quite interesting stuff.

>> No.12585625

>>12585231
Dark night? Is that a term given to it? I don't know any of this stuff my friend, I haven't read into the scriptures yet. I am just very sad after getting a glimpse behind the curtain of self, and realizing there to have never been anything there. It has ironically made me cling to being-a-person more, because I now realize how precious this illusion is. I won't speak on it further, I must sound like a fool to more experienced spirituality-anons. All I know is that I'm going through quite a hard time right now, resulting from what I've witnessed on the nature of identity, consciousness, and reality.

>> No.12586586

>>12583944
is infinity linear or a perfect circle?

>> No.12586659

>>12585625
>how precious this illusion is

I feel the same way, I want to spend my youth luxuriating in the confines of this body and home, in opposition to the void. and yet, the void is not hostile. it just is.

here's to us ascending gracefully in old age, in this life or the next

>> No.12586661

>>12584115
This.

>> No.12586673

>>12583132
Monks eat two meals; breakfast and lunch. You go crazy if you eat only one meal, I'm talking from experience.

>> No.12586677

>>12586586
Depends on which infinity you're talking about.

>> No.12587030

Meditation and nonattachment came surprisingly easy to me, but now anything requiring a sense of self/identity has become incredibly difficult. I still need to graduate school and find a job, but resume-building and sticking to a major and career path etc. require an individual/selfish attitude that I just don't have at this point. I don't know if I can get anywhere in society being this comfortable and at peace with things as they are or aren't already.

>> No.12587116

>>12583725
>>12583742
>Is there such a thing as an ethnic soul, which produces people who are of a certain nature?
Have you considered reading Julius Evola?
>Lastly, if I'm writing a book on spirituality, designed for Westerners to follow, since I find many of them to be without spirituality in their lives. Is it okay if I use Eastern concepts in it? I don't want them to think I'm giving them a "religion", and infringing on their native Christianity or anything like that, but is it fine if I have to use terms like "Dharma" and "Brahman" when explaining what I'm explaining?
Seriously, read Evola. He called Christianity a feminine religion, and he gave no fucks what anybody thought of him or what he said. If there is a harsh truth people need to hear for the sake of their own spirituality, then let them hear it! You are also not doing any favors by downplaying and not fully explaining intrinsically Eastern concepts which have no Western analogue, like Dharma and Brahman. And don't worry about offending anyone. The truth is the most offensive of all.

>> No.12587151

>>12587030
absolutely based, same problem, or at least I prefer the kind of self-affirmation that doesn't involve a career

>> No.12587400

>>12587030
Same as well. I am struggling to pick up the pieces of my previous identity and resume my worldly occupations, having now lost a great deal of my former individuality. I wish this would've happened later in life, since I'm a young man who hasn't even begun a career yet, and I'm not sure how the heck I'm going to manage, getting and maintaining employment, speaking to and networking with others, concerning myself with bills and getting an apartment, all of these other realities I have absolutely no desire for anymore. Well, I never had much of one for them. But now, to even go through their motions at all...is going to be a very great challenge for me. I am an absolute fool. To reduce this much of my ego, this early on in my life. And worst is that I'm not sure if one can "regain ego", having lost some. Is it an upward-downward scale, or does it only work in one direction? I feel like it'd be very difficult, if not impossible, for the internal me to now return to what he was prior to my ego-reduction. No different than someone who experienced a major heartbreak to now revert to what they were before it.

None of this should appear to be "spiritual-bragging", by the way. I have definitely had less of an identity than others for most of my life, at least I've felt like "less of a person" than I imagine they have. But now, life has become too surreal for me to function. The boundaries of distinction have greatly dissolved. I live in a state whereby the phenomena around me are very much me. My vision, my hearing, my physical sensation. Awareness of these without separation or judgement, and not much of an "individual" behind it. Just a body of awareness, and the phenomena within it replacing the space where my "identity" previously was.

Can anyone give me some advice? Ideally spiritual people who have an understanding of what I'm speaking on, but anyone's advice is appreciated.

Basically I've drastically lost a great sense of individuality in the past few years and especially months, but I'm at a crucial stage in my life wherein I'm supposed to now head out into the world and establish a living for my "societal-persona", and the former fact has made the latter expectation very difficult. What do I do, if my individuality is dissolving at a time in my life where I most-need to be an individual? How do I function and carry out my worldly responsibilities if my spiritual progress has accidentally accelerated and "jumped the gun" over the former occupation, so to speak? It feels like my sense of self is literally dissolving more and more each day, and I, with the remainder I have left, am desperately attempting to hold onto it and prevent myself from complete dissolution. Like a crate containing nothing but water in it, and is attempting to keep the water inside, but it has steadily begun seeping out through spaces where the wood is separated from eachother.

Sorry for rambling. Please anyone help if you can. I have no clue what to do.

>> No.12587964

>>12587400
>Before enlightenment,chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment,chop wood, carry water

>> No.12587979

>>12583108
Almost did but I was playing an all or nothing angle, because I know that nirvana requires only a single moment

>> No.12588055

>>12587400
I'm in a similar position like yours. I have lost attachment to the stuff I owned and the identity I have unconsciously crafted with social conditioning throughout my life. An identity is something I no longer desire. By having no desire for objects, idolatry, and consumption, there is no passion, and the zest of life is gone. I'm no longer excited when I visit family or even when my nephews come to visit. I'm not nihilistic because I strongly believe there is a transcendent presence which gives life meaning, nor do I contemplate suicide. I just have no ambition nor drive to do anything. Hell, at this point I might as well join a monastery.

>> No.12588062

>>12588055
certainly you mean you don't have any ambition for conventional things, I know what you mean and have no desire to prove myself with a career or wealth, or to play the ego game with people which I'm expected to do at this age, but I still exercise hard and stay busy with things I care about

>> No.12588080

>>12588055
Same anon. Well, best of luck to you my friend. Whatever path you go down, I hope it goes well for you.

>> No.12588135

>>12587964
Thanks. I've heard this before. It definitely helps me, to keep it in mind. Though I still have so much more to tackle.

>> No.12588374

>>12588055
>>12587400
>>12587030
>>12586659

Consider doing a vipassana retreat, if only to put you in touch with a good teacher.

>> No.12588535

>>12588374
Will look into it friend. Thank you.

>> No.12588672

>>12588374
Poster of >>12588055 here. I'm more of a Advaita Vedanta person.

>> No.12588687

>>12585000
I think my local rishi summarized it perfectly when I was younger and questioning my discipline.

>Catholicism, Methodism etc. may be interesting, but will ultimately lead you to Naraka.

After that I ditched most of my "deep" eastern books about Salvation, Sole Fides, Transubstantiation and throw them to the trash. Dharma is all I need.

>> No.12588692

>>12583916
>>12585625
>>12586659
I'm going through the exact same thing, my friends. I kid you not, I find myself dissolving into the blissful void on a virtually nightly basis, yet I reject it because I'm still too attached to the sights, sounds, people, etc. of this world. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I imagine things will sort themselves out in time.

Namaste, brothers.

>> No.12588929

>>12584158
>"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in Unbinding. Why is that? Because he has known that delight is the root of suffering & stress, that from coming-into-being there is birth, and that for what has come into being there is aging & death. Therefore, with the total ending, fading away, cessation, letting go, relinquishment of craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening, I tell you."
>That is what the Blessed One said. Displeased, the monks did not delight in the Blessed One's words.

nirvana is translated as Unbinding in the text above

>> No.12589031

Go away Gnostic!
Shoo!

>> No.12589127

>>12584452
Same, but not for rebirth, that seems offputting in a religious context. Like Christians saying abhor the fleshly pleasures so that you will experience bliss in heaven, too childish for my aesthetic, immediately turns me away. Are you a Westerner, maybe that's why you fit into it so easily?

On the other hand, I meditate every day because the payoff is great, in regards to my body and mind, though I believe very little of anything especially when it comes to basic facets of contemporary society. So you can be sure I believe in nothing of any religion or philosophy, outside of half-truth provisionalities to discard when eclipsed.

>> No.12589191

>>12583108
cause I don't wanna

>> No.12589333

>>12589127
>So you can be sure I believe in nothing of any religion or philosophy, outside of half-truth provisionalities to discard when eclipsed.
that's liberalism

>> No.12589457
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12589457

>>12584117
This is the point I was trying to counter yesterday without clearly stating what I meant about witnessing the sky burial. The effort and discipline I put towards understanding did not put me on a trajectory. I feel like I earned the essence of wind in creation and destruction, and that my egolessness forces me to abandon those distinctions; that is what meditation and mindfulness has taught me. When I came to see the vultures overtop the body, I did not give the scene significance until afterwards when someone told me what I possible witnessed. And once I had that notion I had to bracket it in my head so as not to be attached to the information but instead keep it free from the memory of the scene. So there is a place of embodied consciousness, an egolessness in me that acknowledges the self experience and acquired knowledge as is, but inside this "becoming" or what-you-will, there is no path or trajectory, only endless reality. From this I can not achieve an ethical understanding nor am receptive to my feelings of empathy for a single ant or all of humanity. I have been struggling with this idea for over ten years now, and I have come up with three different manners of living that reflect my culture and the knowledge I have gained. Each is expressed here regularly (and is the basis for the worlds disagreements about Universal Human Rights). But these are three modes of being that ultimately look at ethics differently and so offer different paths to (seemingly) nowhere. I desire to go down all three but would rather choose to abandon any sense of being that leaves me no recourse for compassion and empathy so that I act ethically simply by the rote absurdity of living, (abiding by the customs of the land).

>> No.12589468

>>12583108
it's so hard

>> No.12589477

>>12589457
only liberals and libertarians care about rights

>> No.12589534

>>12589477
All people care about thier own rights.

>> No.12589561

>>12584211
>>12584256
At this point I'm convinced memes are a parasitic egregore and the people who post them do so just to feed the egregore

>> No.12589570

>>12586673
You can easily eat your maintenance and even surplus calories for the day in one sitting. It isn't too hard.

>> No.12589584

>>12589570
OMAD

>> No.12589591

>>12583108
I'll do it tomorrow

>> No.12589770
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12589770

You 'people' are so stuck on tradition. Tradition. Tradition. Must follow a predetermined path. Why? Why are you drawn to buddhism? And its multitude of sch00ls? What is the difference between East and West? Everything is different and everything is the same. Can you see the change before your eyes? Its hard i know. Infinity is the truth. Even then, you misinterpret. What is a thiught, but a thiught? God, Big Bang, infinity, whatever you want to call it. They are one and the same. We are it?
Samsara. The great wheel. Constantly turning, movinh, it is inescapable. What is rebirth? Is it not just the wheel turning? Forever? The eternal. It is the snake eating its own tail. This is not a new idea, the past has known, then forgotten, and then known. As it is, such is the 'nature' of samsara.

Can you capture an exact moment before it passes into eternity? Try, i implore you.

Do you need buddhism? Maybe.
Bruce lee, "Its like a finger pointing away to the moon. Dont concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

Jesus tried to tell them, but they mistook jesus as the moon and not a finger. The same finger as them.

There is a Right path. What is it?

>> No.12589817

>>12589770
>just be yourself
lol

>> No.12589852

>>12589817
??? What point were you trying to make?

>> No.12589865

>>12586673
I've been eating only once per day for three years. It has never been a problem.

>> No.12589873

>>12589852
The idea of taking responsibility for himself is offensive to him.

>> No.12589885

>>12586586
I would consider it linear. I don't see a reason to think it is a circle.

>> No.12589937

>>12589770
>Jesus tried to tell them, but they mistook jesus as the moon and not a finger. The same finger as them.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

>> No.12589967

>>12583916
you're over-conceptualizing way too fucking much
Detachment is a product of practice, it comes naturally as you progress through the path
Reading about craving and attachment and mentally forcing yourself to stop identifying with the things you love is not detachment in Buddhism, that is just repression, which is obviously destructive more than it is useful.
Reminder that even Stream-Enterers still have sensual desire and ill-will, despite having seen Nibbana for themselves
Once-Returners have only weakened but not eliminated sensual desire and ill-will
Shoot for Stream-Entry for now, it is supposedly very attainable by a layman
You only necessarily have to become a monk to become an arahant, but you can reach up to Non-Returner as a layman

>> No.12590020

>>12587400
My suggestion would be to pick a wholesome livelihood that does not conflict with your values, something where you can practice compassion and kindness, or honestly any career that genuinely benefits others in some way
Discovering emptiness without cultivating metta just leads to nihilism
There are still things to be done in the world, if there wasn't then Buddha would not have taught what he knew. He taught out of compassion for other beings
The Buddha had a personal physician to look after him
Cultivate metta to avoid nihilism and to maintain a sense of purpose

>> No.12590036

>>12589937
What does that mean?

>> No.12590122

>>12590036
John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

>> No.12590150

>>12583108
>realises what life is like
>immediately tries to find the most effective way to permanently kill himself
Is Buddhism the most blackpilled religion?

>> No.12590194

Why not Daoism ?


It’s a belief that should leave you empty., though I ask, why fill yourself up with emulating kitschy sainthood/buddahood?


It’s just the best I’ve encountered, a return to a simple, nature-like mental state; though chaotic and uncontrollable, still ready for the spontaneous of the divine, behaving like water and teaching likewise.

>> No.12590198

>>12590194
to intellectual and uneffective

>> No.12590207

>>12590122
christians are shit at getting the first jhana already, nothing to salvage from their doctrine. Even the hindus are better than them

>> No.12590215

>>12590198
Perhaps for the masses, but it’s not sour on a litizen’s palette.

>> No.12590450

>>12583108
I've been trying to perfect the first jhana/dhyana. I think I can get past the hindrances and both concentration, not sure if I'm experiencing rapture and happiness though.

>> No.12590576

>>12590450
If you're not sure, it's probably not happening, at least not at the intensity associated with first jhana
you might be experiencing little flashes of piti, but when you get to the final stage of piti before jhana, it is undeniably intense, like pure euphoria infinitely shooting through your entire being from all directions

>> No.12590586

>>12590122
What does that mean?

>> No.12590603

>>12590586
It means that Jesus is God and that the only salvation is to follow him specifically.

>> No.12590642

Imagine being a butthurt orientalist that generally dislikes Christianity, now imagine you are also a buddhist wannabe and equally butthurt at Confucianists and Shintoists for their historical oppression of buddhists. How do they have time for meditation with all this butthurt?

>> No.12590646

>>12590603
What does that mean?

>> No.12590653

>>12590642
Imagine getting invested in and upset about the historical disputes and various schools of some foreign religion that you've never experienced in its native context and barely understand.

>> No.12590658

>>12590646
That you aren't saved by semantic games.

>> No.12590717

>>12583108
What are some good books to get into Buddhism/meditation?

>> No.12590771

>>12590603
What does that mean?

>> No.12590912

>>12590717
In The Buddha's Words
the Nikayas (Majjhima Nikaya, Digha Nikaya, Samyutta Nikaya...etc)
If you like short aphorisms, the Dhammapada
For meditation, if you find that the instructions in the suttas (Anapanasati Sutta and Satipatthana Sutta) are unsatisfactory, then I recommend The Mind Illuminated by John Yates to start off (though many hardass Theravadins might advise against any instructions that aren't from monks or the suttas), The Deliverance of the Heart by Bhikkhu K. Ñāṇananda (and pretty much any of his works available on seeingthroughthenet.net, especially the stuff about dependent origination and contact, if you're interested in Buddhism's phenomenology), and The Manual of Insight by Mahasi Sayadaw for insight meditation after you've made considerable progress in samatha and metta (unless you wanna be a madman and dive straight into insight meditation before everything else, risking your sanity and ability to operate in everyday life)
and remember, sila before samadhi

>> No.12590956

Daily reminder chinese confucianists and folk religion are slowly replacing tibetans.

>> No.12590971

>>12590912
Thanks anon

>> No.12591052

>>12590971
glad to help
I made sure to reply quick before someone told you to read Alan Watts, The Lotus Sutra and Dharma Bums
I can't tell if those people are memeing when they do that
they probably are

>> No.12591113

>>12590207
>even the hindus are better than them
Don't the Jhanas predate Buddha, and are therefore from Hinduism itself?

>> No.12591142

>>12591113
not the anon you're replying to but yes the jhanas predate the Buddha, he was even taught jhana practice by other holy men after he left the household life, before he reached Nibbana
The thing that makes Buddhism's approach to jhana unique is its recognition of jhana as nothing special or liberating: it is impermanent, conditioned
Buddhism recognizes jhana as a tool to see clearly, as a means to an end and not an end in itself (unlike many other meditation traditions which emphasize rapture and jhana-like states as the goal)

>> No.12591152

>>12591052
What about mindfulness in plain english?

>> No.12591221

>>12591152
It's not bad at all, although I personally didn't find it as helpful or as detailed as the other resources
I've found The Mind Illuminated by John Yates most useful and detailed
I would also honestly recommend With Each and Every Breath by Thanissaro Bhikkhu for a book similar in scope to Mindfulness in Plain English. You can get it for free in digital formats online. Like Mindfulness in Plain English, it seems to be geared towards beginners, and seems to be concerned mostly with the basics.

>> No.12591226

>>12591221
Thanks for the recommendations anon!

>> No.12591229

>>12583108
I know you haven't, but what about me?

>> No.12591259

>>12591142
Interesting, thanks. My mind is blown when I imagine the original sages who first discovered all of this. I mean, isn't it simply incredible to imagine creating these systems from scratch? That all of it - the jhanas, the chakras, the subtle bodies, and whatever else - all of it had to be discovered from a ground of nothing? Which absolutely and most legendary of holy individuals originally discovered this world of realities, from there transmitting it to others and creating an entire culture around it?

>> No.12591280

>>12591259
Well, there is a reason why they call it the Dharma
It is truth that exists separate from the teachings. The teachings are only discoveries of these truths.
It is said that the Dharma is not credible because the Buddha taught it, but the Buddha is credible because he taught the Dharma
And if you're open to the other eastern religions which teach their brands of Dharma, I imagine it is the same case

>> No.12591294 [DELETED] 

>>12591221
Happy to help

>> No.12591302

>>12591226
Happy to help!

>> No.12591338

>>12591152
>>12591221
Practicing mindlessness can be destructive when you aren't already in the proper mindset.

>> No.12591344

>>12591338
Mindfulness, I mean

>> No.12591418

>>12591338
In many cases people seem to recommend mindfulness as a sort of generic catch-all term for practices that are vaguely vipassana-based.
In this case I would agree that it can have averse effects, because meditation that lends itself to insight is difficult to integrate in an unprepared mind.
This is why I recommended The Mind Illuminated and With Each and Every Breath, which focus primarily on Samatha. The Mind Illuminated also details in early sections of the book, the emotional "purifications" that can occur when the mind becomes stilled, which can definitely affect someone negatively until the purification has passed, however, these purifications tend to be be very short and easy to handle compared to what can happen with raw insight meditation (because the books I recommended teach samatha before insight meditation).

>> No.12591442

>>12591338
>>12591344
And if by mindset you mean your day-to-day mindset that one uses to direct themselves in life, I would agree massively with you, which is why I said "sila before samadhi"
There's a reason why right mindfulness and right concentration are the last 2 parts of the noble eightfold path.
Anyone interested in meditation should hold off until they develop their morality and virtue, and if they want to meditate successfully in a Buddhist context, they should first develop Right View (learning the theory and teachings, and applying them to everyday life, seeing how the teachings hold up to everyday experience).

>> No.12591652

...the wheel of Samsara?! there is no such thing. Like all religions and ideologies its just made up bullshit...on top of more made up bullshit...and the wheel goes and goes...huh?! I guess there is a wheel

>> No.12591673

>>12591280
That's very interesting, I really like those explanations. Can you please recommend me some texts to look into, for a formal introduction to these concepts?

>> No.12591847

>>12591673
Those ideas in particular are ones I learnt of in passing from reading various suttas and stuff (all from Buddhist texts). There are no specific texts I know of that solely address the concept of there being an already existing ultimate truth that the Buddha discovered, rather than invented. I would imagine, though, that you could find some stuff about this in Nagarjuna's works, especially when he talks about Ultimate Truth vs Conventional Truth (two truths doctrine). The idea of the Buddha stumbling upon an already existing truth and pathway to liberation comes up occasionally in the Nikayas, especially with the idea that there have been many Buddhas before the Buddha we know (Buddha Shakyamuni) who have been mostly forgotten, or who appeared in other world systems, who had also stumbled upon the Dhamma, the pathway to Nibbana, and that our Buddha was just another one who stumbled upon the same path after it had been forgotten by humanity. There is also the concept of there being many Buddhas who discovered the Dhamma alone without being taught about it, who never taught it to others, called pacceka-buddhas. This sort of Buddhist lore (if my memory serves me well) can be found in a lot of the first sermons the Buddha gave, in the Majjhima Nikaya, and I think it is mentioned in the anthology In The Buddha's Words as well, with the suttas that allude to a 'forgotten path previously walked by the noble ones' or something along those lines.

>> No.12592693

i eat one meal a day now

>> No.12592694

>>12589967
>which is obviously
And that's when I left Buddhism alone and went back to my just-so stories and histories of ideas and ways of seeing the world.

>> No.12594558
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12594558

>>12591652
THERE CANT BE A FUCKING WHEEL
how can there be afucking wheel? we all no religion and ideology is just a bunch of horse shit! I mean look at it, how can it be right? a wheel... give me a break. I am experiencing new things constantly! Time isn't a fucking closed system! ITS INFINITE GROWTH BABY!!!!

well... i mean... well... this is weird....

>> No.12594637

>>12585625
Yes, what you're experiencing is what is commonly known as the "dark night of the soul" in many religions. It is discussed in the Bhaya-bherava Sutta (see: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.004.than.html)) as "Fear and Terror". It's perfectly natural and expected, but you must not take it as a sign to give up or even arrest the path. That will only hurt you more. There is no "escape" either, you must keep going.

Remember that you need view, meditation and conduct to transform. One alone will not work. Now look at scripture (access to insight is an excellent resource). Now apply what you've learned in your everyday behavior. May you be free from suffering.

>> No.12595121

>>12594558
What the fuck are you doing

>> No.12595128

>>12583108
>Why have you not yet escaped the wheel of Samsara?
I don't go for that voodoo shit.

>> No.12595326

>>12587400
The 10 ox herder pictures might help.

>> No.12595597

I don't believe in it

without this belief in samsara, you can just kys to permanently cease suffering

but I don't want to kms