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/lit/ - Literature


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12577602 No.12577602 [Reply] [Original]

What book predicted the future (modern time) the best? I nominate Fahrenheit 451 (1953):

>everyone lives in isolated detached housing with minimal social interaction
>parents uninvolved with their children
>using earbuds while walking outside to isolate yourself from everyone around you
>VR and streaming
>everyone hooked on drugs to sustain the fantasy
>non-technical books are for old people and unavailable to 99% of society
>police using helicopters to track suspects
>abandoned railways and infrastructure in general

>> No.12577721

>>12577602
>non-technical books are for old people and unavailable to 99% of society
please explain

>> No.12577757

Society of the Spectacle
>>12575896

>> No.12577764

>>12577602
Naked Lunch

>> No.12577829

>>12577602
Kierkegaard on Modern Times

>> No.12577846

>>12577602
Understanding Media

McLuhan is the most accurate prophet of our times. >>12577757 Debord is a budget french theorycel version of his clearer and more useful thinking

>> No.12577875

>>12577721
Not OP, but he is retarded. I hope that explains it.

>> No.12577880

>>12577846
>theorycel
>>12575989

>> No.12577934

>>12577764
NL literally predicted AIDS coming out of Africa

>> No.12577941

Back to the Future Part II novelization

>> No.12578150

>>12577602
man I thought AGP was a total meme but now I've actually begun to feel it, what on earth do I do...

>> No.12578659

>>12577880
>reading French obscurantist jerkoff lit is the same as studying economics

>> No.12578699
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12578699

>>12577941

>> No.12578722

>>12578659
economics is a meme that can be understood infinitely better through the social sciences (which are also a meme)

>> No.12578780

>>12577602
A Brave New World (Western)

1984 (North Korea)

>> No.12578788

>>12577602
luckily I don't do any of these things

>> No.12578810

>>12578150
Don't do anything. We don't need more disgusting fetishists ruining hsts representation.

>> No.12578831

>>12578722
Social sciences have atrocious track record as science. Is there a single study in that field that can be simply proven/disproven by repeated experiment? Serious question.

>> No.12578844
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12578844

Reign of Quantity

>> No.12579011

>>12577602
Infinite Jest. Here's what DFW had to say in a 1996 interview promoting the book:
>"If you've still got a nation of people sitting of front of screens, pretending, interacting with images rather than each other, feeling lonely and so needing more and more images you’re going to have the same basic problem. And the better the images get, the more tempting it’s going to be to interact with images rather than other people. And I think the emptier it’s going to get."

>> No.12579018

>>12579011
Does he talk about this in the book?

>> No.12579035

>>12579018
What the hell do you think it's about?

>> No.12579063

>>12579035
Lots of things? I haven't read it yet

>> No.12579078

>>12577602
BNW predicted BLACKED

>> No.12579129

>>12579078
In what way?

>> No.12579216

>>12579129
The feelies had a scene where a black epsilon kept a heli in the air for 5 days and ravaged an alpha blonde whenever he wanted. A whole theatre was getting off to it.

>> No.12579315

>>12577602
Stand on Zanzibar, the Rising Tide of Colour Against White World Supremacy and the Camp of the Saints.

>> No.12579932

>>12579063
Yeah, addiction is a huge theme of the book, obviously covering drug addiction but the book posits addiction to entertainment may be the most lethal and alluring of them all. Hence the titular film "Infinite Jest" which is so entertaining people lose all will to do anything but watch it over and over again and eventually die.

>> No.12579945
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12579945

>>12577602
The book of Enoch.

>> No.12579970

>>12579018
No

>> No.12579973

>>12577829
Yeah this isn't true. Everything he said had nothing to do with time. The things he said have always happened since societies came into fruition along with semi-comfortable easy living. It is more of a revolt against the layman than a prediction, even if he says otherwise.

>> No.12579979

>>12577602
>parents uninvolved with their children
nigga I'm 26 and still living at home how in any way is this predictive of present day

>> No.12579987
File: 82 KB, 600x927, Orality and Literacy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579987

>>12579011
Secondary orality comes with certain biases but does not get the same negative review as secondary images. DFW was the last in a line of many to critique The Image, but many people have discussed this subject before him and have been wrong.
>>12577602
Nostrodomus

>> No.12580323

>>12578150
it's usually felt since childhood fren
so probably false flag

>> No.12580517

>>12580323
Thank goodness, what a relief. I appreciate this fren. I guess it just seemed nice for a bit, to be as pretty as they are. I wish I could be beautiful, but still a boy. But I guess sometimes I slip into desiring to be them entirely, since they are entirely beautiful and soft by their very nature. I also appreciate the feminine a lot, like in music for example. Is that okay? Or is that a "sign"? I just love how loud and emotional it is, songs like Into You by Ariana (or many others by her), or My Heart Will Go On by Celine Dion. Also that Can't Get You Out of My Head song by Kylie Minogue. Is it okay to like these? Or am I an "egg"? Please respond if you can. I really hope I'm not an egg.

>> No.12580527

>>12578150
It's an addiction. Don't feed it and it'll starve
T. has had agp since childhood

>> No.12580532

>>12580517
if you have to ask, you aren't

>> No.12580593

>>12580527
So are you trans? What are you doing about it? I don't even know how any of this works, the terminology and all that. I'm a straight boy and only a day ago maybe did I start looking at girls and desiring to be in their shoes. I just want to be that pretty, and it's not fair only they can have that. Well, I just want to be a pretty boy, but I'm kind of jealous that prettiness gets to be "their thing", a permanent title belonging to them. I guess I'm just feeling a bit covetous.

>>12580532
What does this mean? How can you be so sure? Because real ones already know, and never ask?

>> No.12580638

>>12580593
You're so girly that it's adorable anon. I mean that in good faith.

If you're starting to fantasise about being a woman, then you might be AGP or an egg. As for what you can do about it, I don't know because I'm the exact same position as you.

Out of curiosity, why are you so afraid of being considered AGP?

>> No.12580674

>>12580593
For the record, neither I nor anybody on this board is going to stop you from pursuing your desire to be a pretty boy.

>>12580532
This guy is wrong. Most trans people spend a good deal of their lives in denial about why they like dressing up as the other gender.

I'm not super well-read on queer and gender theory. I'd recommend watching some movies or reading books about cross-dressers and seeing how it makes you feel.

>> No.12580703

What the fuck is an egg?

>> No.12580706

>>12580593
Do you even fancy men? You might be one of those those traps that aren't gay.

>> No.12580718

>>12580593
I'm not trans myself, though I have fallen into that rabbit hole for almost two years. AGP is just redirected male heterosexuality. You won't ever be happy or pleased with yourself if you indulge in it. It's a never-ending libidinal hole, you'll never be satisfied and one day you'll realize how much you've thrown away to indulge in it and then you will finally understand why so many tranners kill themselves. Don't go down this path. Be as feminine as you want, hell, even crossdress (be very careful with this as it is a very slippery slope) just don't permanently change your body or sterilize yourself. You'll regret it, I guarantee it

>> No.12580728

>>12580703
A trans person who doesn't realize they are trans yet
>>12580674
Only middleaged fetishists have to convince themselves that they were living the previous happy decades in bad faith. It's an introverted totalitarianism

>> No.12580734

>>12579216
>>12579078
holy shit your right

>> No.12580740

>>12580638
No, I'm the same anon who spoke to you in the earlier thread that got closed, lol. The "pretty boy" anon. I just...as of a day ago...kind of started wanting to BE the girl, lol. Hypocritical. I don't know. Hopefully just a temporary glitch. And I say that with no disrespect to you, because in your case it's a real part of your identity. In mine, it isn't me. It really isn't. I am not this. It's just a strange glitch I've recently taken on.

>> No.12580745

>>12580728
>previous happy decades
Not usually the case in my experience.
>>12580718
>Don't permanently change your body or you'll regret it, I guarantee it
this is a valid warning, but you can't guarantee it. My dad's not trans, but he did sterilize himself (vasectomy) and he doesn't regret it. Some people are fine and content with altering their bodies and some aren't. Depends on the body and the alteration and the reasons for it.

>> No.12580749

I fucking hate trannies

>> No.12580756

>>12580718
AGP is sexual attraction to yourself as a woman.
I didn't really see sexual attraction mentioned anywhere. It's not a fetish if it's not sexual.
You have to clearly separate AGP from trans people and feminine gays.

>> No.12580763

>>12580756
AGPs and HSTSs almost never mistake themselves for the other. The motivations between the two are completely different. The anon posting before sounded very AGP

>> No.12580810

>>12580763
It did sound more like an identity thing to me; a preference of presentation and sentiments.
That said; gender isn't binary, so wanting to be a cute, feminine guy, even to the point of looking like a girl, in other words being a trap, is perfectly fine.

>> No.12580869

>>12580740
Wanting to be a girl isn't exactly strange or problematic. It gets problematic if you consider making radical changes to yourself, like getting gender reassignment surgery, since there's a chance you'll still feel incomplete and unfulfilled after, while potentially ruining your life.
It's all a matter if being realistic and accepting certain facts about yourself.

>> No.12580883

>>12580740
You just handle your femininity in whatever way feels comfortable to you. This is a confusing time for us both, so let's just try to be happy.

>> No.12580885

>>12579216
What the fuck

>> No.12580893
File: 22 KB, 960x540, Screen Shot 2015-03-05 at 19.26.57_646x363.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12580893

>>12580674
>>12580706
>>12580718
>>12580756
I wrote a bunch of stuff to all of you, but my stupid phone changed the page and I lost it all. I'll just summarize it as this:
-I want to be beautiful.
-I presently look over at women and feel envious that they get to be so sophisticated, so elegant, so beautiful.
-And that I, as a man, must be like an animal in comparison, in my appearance, my outfits, my manner, and my inner essence too.
-I have lately been wishing to be a woman, a real one, just to experience what it would be like to be all of those qualities, the paragon of sophistication among the human sexes.
-I don't like crossdressing, I never have and never desire to, no offence here but I personally don't like when men and women play eachother's parts, it's a mockery to both sexes imo. I just want to experience being an actual woman, or nothing.
-I'm straight. No gay thoughts at all.
-No sexual stimulation here. I'm not turned on by these thoughts.
-I think I'm just very sad realizing lately, after expressing yesterday my desire to be a pretty boy, that I've temporarily gone haywire and desire to just be a girl itself, rather than be reminded of how awful it is to be this crude-looking young male that I am, and can never become any cuter from here and achieve "cute boy" status like I want to. Basically my own unsophistication has been highlighted to me since yesterday, and now I'm much more depressed than before. I wish I hadn't expressed all that, and realized how repressed I am from my true, ideal self (as a pretty boy).

Sorry for the rambling and the neuroses. I'm just a stupid fool and I appreciate you all rending to my psychological dysfunctions. I love you, strangers.

>> No.12580904

My default sexuality is AGP. I've always wanted to be the woman during sex. I've had to learn how to be straight, and it just isn't as arousing, actually kind of disappointing, more about making my partner happy than anything else

>> No.12580912

>>12580893
How much of is it is wanting to be a child again versus wanting to be a woman? People often can get confused between the two

>> No.12580921

>>12580904
You could try pegging or crossdressing during sex.

>> No.12580928

>>12580921
Maybe, that would really change the Dynamics of a heterosexual relationship for the worse though

>> No.12580959
File: 408 KB, 1907x2074, Sexuality.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12580959

>>12580921
>>12580912
>>12580904
>>12580893
>>12580883
>>12580869
>>12580810
>>12580763
>>12580756
>>12580740
>>12580728
>>12580718
>>12580638
>>12580593
The only correct answer is here- >>12580527
AGP is a psychological mechanism and we live in a time where the social environment encourages this mechanism.

>> No.12580975

>>12580959
>being some weird self-loving fetishist is a psychological mechanism encouraged by society
I mean, you are not wrong, egoism is encouraged, but you're taking it too far.
Ever fancied fapping looking at yourself in a mirror wearing a cute little dress?
No?
And neither did literally anybody else.
AGP is an uncommon and pretty damn weird mental disorder.

>> No.12580985

>>12580904
Ooh crap, we actually have one here, but I doubt there's many.

>> No.12580998

>>12580893
This does sound like gender dysphoria.

>> No.12581009

>>12580893
I want to tell you that being a boy does not disqualify you from being pretty. I'm a straight guy and women have un-jokingly called me pretty before. Not a lot of women do this but it has happened. I think this idea that masculinity and male sexuality are essentially crude or gross while women are all sophisticated is a false and harmful dichotomy.

Anyway your desire is totally valid. You described yourself as "crude looking" but what do you actually look like?

I'm this guy by the ways >>12580674
And I still think taking a look at some queer media could help you get outside some of your preconceived notions of what men and women have to be.

>> No.12581018

>>12580912
The child-thing entirely, I think the woman-thing is hopefully just a brief misguided grasping after the former. Also I didn't remember posting about my child-complex yesterday, strange.

>>12580998
Hopefully not...

>> No.12581028

>>12580893
>-I want to be beautiful.
What you have is narcissism. You can't fulfill it and it upsets you. Get over yourself.

>> No.12581036

>>12580975
This doesn't come off as a coherent post.

>> No.12581048

>>12581018
Well, it's quite a classical case if you are uncomfortable and unhappy with masculinity and wish you could be a true female or see yourself as one (even if you're in denial).
Overall it should be manageable, though, just live your pretty boy ideals and you should be fine, accept your limits and situation and make the best of it.

>> No.12581109

>>12581009
Yeah but you're probably cute then, and pretty, but I'm not, unfortunately. You should cherish that attribute.

I'm just a young Indian male (yep, sadly. pls don't make fun of me) that feels like I don't fit in anywhere in life. I have caramel skin, curly black hair, manlet-status, broad shoulders, and just whatever features. I'm not handsome. I consider myself ugly. I don't know what others would say.

But anyway, can you recommend some "queer media"? I don't know anything about that world.

Also check out this image I just pulled from the catalog. Look at the girl on the bottom right, in the salmon bikini. Imagine being that sophisticated. I can't even imagine it. To see no bulge down there...and then think of my own, so messy and unsophisticated in comparison. To see those curves. Her glow. All of these things, only women can have. It must feel so regal. Like nature's favorite flower. They are undoubtedly the fairer sex. The sex that won-out the sophistication competition. I look and feel like a brute in comparison. It would be cool to be a celibate girl. Little girls are more pure than little boys, in my view. I've always felt that. Reading Alice's Adventures in Wonderland cemented that belief for me. I just want to be oure and beautiful and sophisticated and refined, and though I love boyishness and don't feel overtly like a girl, I've realized now that they literally and completely won the trophy for refinedness. And I imagine it'd be nice to have that, but if I could still be a boy somehow? I don't know. I'm an idiot. I'm probably trans. I just want to be a work of art. I don't like when my bulge is there because it feels strange and it touches the surface of what I'm laying against. In my daydreams with my fantasy girlfriend, I get so sad when I feel that it has accidentally touched her while we're laying there together, me sitting onto her sort of. I don't even know what I'm saying now. I'm not a girl. I'm not. I can't be one or speak like one or do whatever they do. They just won, is all. They know beauty best, and are themselves the most beautiful. They live closest to the heavenly realms of reality, is all. Color and butterflies and emotions and softness and compassion and everything else, is so much better than a man's equivalent in physical strength, and whatever other attributes I have no interest in. What a loser I am. I'm probably AGP or whatever it is. Whatever. I'll sort it out. Just a fool. Nothing more to my story.

>> No.12581118
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12581118

>>12581109
Forgot image, sorry.

>> No.12581132

>>12581109
Make sure you aren't conflating your desire for being unconditionally loved with your own objects of desire

>> No.12581139
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12581139

>>12580959
This. I went through the phase and it nearly drove me insane. Any AGPs in this thread, listen to me: stop watching porn completely (as I have) and embrace your masculinity. Be a man, not in a crass, obnoxious sort of way, but in a decent, self-respecting, "service to community" sort of way. You'll be much happier, more successful at whatever it is that you do, and you will probably be more attractive too (in both a romantic and social sense). AGP is a self-induced delusion. It's a retreat into yourself, a determination of the world from within. But you can't decide your life like that. As much as our society talks about "choice" and "self-actualisation", you cannot change the fact that you are a man, and that is a fact that you must answer, not with retreat, but with embrace. As difficult as that may be, it is the only secure way forward. Living in your own head, habitually engaging in fantasy, but not just any fantasy, but fantasy utterly estranged from the reality of your own body, is a dangerous game and you may destroy your life in the process.

>It is possible to meet the sceptic who believes that everything began in himself . He doubts not the existence of angels or devils, but the existence of men and cows. For him his own friends are a mythology made up by himself. He created his own father and his own mother. This horrible fancy has in it something decidedly attractive to the somewhat mystical egoism of our day. That publisher who thought that men would get on if they believed in themselves, those seekers after the Superman who are always looking for him in the looking-glass, those writers who talk about impressing their personalities instead of creating life for the world, all these people have really only an inch between them and this awful emptiness. Then when this kindly world all round the man has been blackened out like a lie; when friends fade into ghosts, and the foundations of the world fail; then when the man, believing in nothing and in no man, is alone in his own nightmare, then the great individualistic motto shall be written over him in avenging irony. The stars will be only dots in the blackness of his own brain; his mother’s face will be only a sketch from his own insane pencil on the walls of his cell. But over his cell shall be written, with dreadful truth, "He believes in himself." (Chesterton, The Maniac)

>> No.12581232

>>12581109
I don't think being Indian has anything to do with it, but I don't really watch any media featuring Indian people either.

With regards to queer media, I mostly have film recommendations

Funeral Parade of Roses is a Japanese film based on Oedipus about an underground drag scene. I thought of it right away reading your posts.

Derek Jarman is an English screenwriter and director who got his start doing music videos for the smiths. He's gay and most of his films feature really attractive young men basking in the sun. A good place if you want to see how things can be vulgar and beautiful and sophisticated at the same time. Also for enjoying the aesthetic beauty of the male form. I enjoyed his films Caravaggio and Sebastiane about the Italian painter, and an early Christian saint. The actors in Sebastiane actually speak Latin the entire time.

I'll catch shit for this last recommendation, but there is a youtube channel run by a transwoman called Contrapoints which has a video on AGP trying to discredit it as a diagnosis. Towards the end of the video she outlines her sexual history and rationale for trnasitioning in her late twenties. You can decide whether you agree with it or not, but I think hearing her perspective will help inform your own self-evaluation.

Hope this helps.

>> No.12581260

>>12581132
This is a valid concern.
There's a difference between wanting to be loved as a girl or wanting to be the girl you love.
And another difference if you want to fuck the girl that's inside you.

>> No.12581273

>>12581232
Don't listen to contrapoints, she is a horrible person who wants others to share in her own self hate and misery (not to mention a literature pseud). If you are sensitive at all to gender issues, she'll really mess you up. Don't let her live rent free in your head, I have a lot of experience with it. I used to be one of her biggest fans and now I hate her like I hate very few other people

>> No.12581288
File: 79 KB, 446x435, 1541613598861.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12581288

trannies should be euthanized

>> No.12581304

>>12581132
>>12581260
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind.

>>12581232
Thanks, I've saved these to my notes.

Overall, I think I'm just being silly right now. I have never had these feelings before, and likely won't for much longer. But I'll be honest with myself and see where it goes. I hope it doesn't escalate, which would only make life much harder for me. But I wish the best for all those who genuinely have AGP or similar, and that they can find a way to either rid themselves of it or express in it, depending on what they desire.

>> No.12581320

>>12581288
Only the ugly ones.
Hell, probably for the best to euthanize all ugly people, and obese ones, and jews, and...

>> No.12581337

>>12581288
I agree. Especially the hot ones as well.

>> No.12582679

>>12581139
I doubt my own AGP is a product of porn, honestly. My femininity has always been there as background noise throughout my life and only now am I trying to come to terms with it. I still have masculine qualities, and I’m not delusional enough to think I will be anything other than a biological male (if was to become a woman, I’d want to be the real thing rather than trans), but I just want to find ways to incorporate the femininity I’ve suppressed into my life without changing too much about how I live fundamentally. I don’t see anything wrong with indulging a few girly pleasures as long as you don’t let it take over your life.
Somewhere inside me, there’s a woman and I’m tired of just ignoring her.

>>12581260
>tfw it’s a bit of all three for me
God, admiring women makes me feel so confused, and yet at the same time it feels somewhat exciting.

>> No.12582689

>>12582679
>I doubt my own AGP is a product of porn, honestly.
Probably. It is not all porn-induced. Maybe you do just identify with femininity more, I know I do to an extent. But I just disregard it.

>> No.12582825

>>12582689
>I just disregard it
And that’s my problem. I feel as though I’ve done that for too long. I envy women because they have what I believe to be the higher and more noble essence of femininity and are able to take it for granted.

Being honest, I harbour perverse desires within me just like any other man, but my love of women goes beyond just that. Women are more aesthetically pleasing, their aggression is more indirect and therefore more nuanced, they can somehow be more romantic and more utilitarian than men simultaneously, they are more attuned to the world of emotions and humanity as a whole, the list goes on.

I love women so much that even being near one makes me just a little bit happier. Surely to know what I’m talking about? To me, femininity and women are some of the Earth’s most beautiful creations.

>> No.12582983

>>12582825
>femininity and women are some of the Earth’s most beautiful creations.
>femininity and women
Let me tell you a secret. Femininity exists only in a man's mind. It is called Anima. Homo Sapiens Sapiens females send signals that sometimes align with Anima. However, it is pure vapor. A bait, not at all unlike an angler fish sending out the 'please eat me' signals.

>> No.12583025

>>12582825
>femininity and women are some of the Earth’s most beautiful creations
I don't think many men would disagree with you, but that doesn't go so far as wanting to be one. What is the appeal of being a "beautiful creation"? Why do you want to be an object of admiration and desire?

>> No.12583090

>>12583025
Well as I said, women possess several admirable qualities tied to the increased amount of femininity in them, so I too would like these qualities so that I could be just as beautiful as I find them to be.

There’s also the fact that a man can’t do some girly things without being looked down upon, so being a girl would eliminate that problem.

>> No.12583317

id actually say we're close to the capitalism described in obriens "the book"

>> No.12583322

>>12580928
>for the worse though
Sounds like you have a boring sexual partner.
>>12580912
They also get confused in their projection onto themselves rather than onto their partner because of the All penetrative sex is hostile people. If you have mildly sadistic fantasies, you are much more likely to take them out on yourself than your partner. Getting men to express their healthy objectification of women will never happen in a society committed to correcting our biology. I have been conditioned since a boy to hate my desire to control other humans for my sexual pleasure. I literally don't feel like I Have a penis unless a woman sees it, like as if I was somehow made to be ashamed of my cock more than my so-called masculinity.
---
Is this just a psychological problem that requires me to adjust, or should I condemn the culture that surrounds me? I'm old enough to see that had I had a male Allie early on encouraging my earliest desires, I would not have spent so much time sublimating them into various ridiculous submissive sexual acts. I would also probably have saved more money letting my sadistic side flourish, and would definitely had married a cute Jewish girl to dominate.

>> No.12583348

>The content of this thread.
Lord, have mercy on us.

>> No.12583955
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12583955

>>12583348
Indeed. But, on the other hand, all threads turn to deviant sex on 4chinz.

>> No.12583978

>>12579979
emotionally

>> No.12584164

>>12577602
>>12577721
i'm still waiting for an explanation for the "99% of society"

>> No.12584297

>>12584164
Just read it, it's like 150 pages.

>> No.12584472

>>12580517
There's literally no such thing as an authentic transperson. It's a social contagion.

>> No.12584489
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12584489

>>12584164
i know, i've read it. what i don't understand is how this was an "prediction". books are accessible now more than ever in human history.

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