/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12569236]

Nightly Marxism thread, what are you reading?
Just started the Spartacist League's Lenin and the Vanguard Party

[Anonymous No.12569246]

EN4 - History of Separation

Orthomarxist politics are an embarrassing LARP btw.

[Anonymous No.12569262]

Im reading Capital vol.1, figured I should start with the man himself

[Anonymous No.12569275]

>Lenin
And so enters the dragon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsC0q3CO6lM

[Anonymous No.12569282]

Posted this as OP before but it got deleted

How do you convince someone who is clearly intelligent (into Dante, Nabakov, Heidegger, Aristotle), to understand Marx? I have tried explaining it to her, she's even read The German Ideology and Capital, but she's still stuck in false consciousness. This in spite of the fact that she opposes capitalism and calls it a "disease". But she still thinks communism is a "rabid" enemy of "civilization, of life itself". When I pointed out that is simply equality properly realized, she said equality is "entropy, a will to willessness, a cultural settling into death." We've been friends for a long time but ended going separate ways, she got into religion, I got into liberation.

[Anonymous No.12569497]

>>12569275
does Chomsky ignore facts on purpose? or is he just an idiot?

[Anonymous No.12569533]

>Spartacist League
lmao what the fuck are you doing

do you happen to not know this organization at all and just stumbled upon them by chance?

and I'm reading "A Short History of Socialist Economic Thought" which is mostly about Marxism

[Anonymous No.12569537]

>>12569236
>mfw I am unironically a Tory

[Anonymous No.12569545]

Heil Hitler

[Anonymous No.12569565]

Btw is anyone else just completely over /leftypol/?

Both leftypol and leftpol are just so bad and dead now. I try browsing there sometimes but I feel that the community has mostly abandoned it and only the dumbest people were left behind. I knew the split would kill both eventually but it happened sooner than I thought.

[Anonymous No.12569603]

>>12569275
Why does he try to hold up Rosa Luxemburg as one of the "mainstream Marxists" opposed to Leninism?

>Liberals and social democrats have systematically suppressed reference to Luxemburg’s close alliance with Bolshevism from the revolution of 1905 until 1912 and again from the outbreak of World War I until her assassination during the Spartacus uprising in 1919. They have, however, fully exploited her 1904 polemic in the service of anticommunism.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.12569617]

>>12569565
I poke my head in leftpol still, which is just filled with reactionary trolls atm, but tankypol is hopeless Leninist farts

[Anonymous No.12569639]

None of you will escape the gulag.

[Anonymous No.12569646]

>>12569565
leftypol was filled with retarded teenagers from the start

>>12569603
Luxemburg's politics were showingly as conservative as Lenin's; just as he crushed the Left SR's, and apologized to the German Empire for their dead oligarch/ambassador to boot, she cloyingly maintained alliance to the end with the Bolsheviks that were more interested in politicking and becoming a nation than in spreading upheaval

[Anonymous No.12569744]

reading a 1945 official publication on propaganda and party agitation. Good shit

[Anonymous No.12569748]

>>12569646
>and apologized to the German Empire for their dead oligarch/ambassador to boot
Wow, he did something practical and diplomatic to help persuade a militarized power to stop killing them instead of doing something shallow and counter-productive for performance points? Fuck this guy

[Anonymous No.12569774]

I’m really fucking sick of blatantly off-topic threads on this board, bros. why can't we have nice things?

I'm cool with this thread btw

[Anonymous No.12569776]

>>12569744
post that ish niBBa

[Anonymous No.12569791]

>>12569776
Okay, you read Russian?

[Anonymous No.12569797]

>>12569791
>>12569776
it is to aid the propagandist and agitator. We start with a short overview by Stalin, then a variety of information about using the Short Course to teach history, some specific government recommendations for different regions/contexts, some overviews by Kalinin etc (haven't gotten there yet so not sure exactly about what)

[Anonymous No.12569836]

where do I start with marxism?

[Anonymous No.12569837]

>>12569282
you both sound really young, and your convictions polarized a little different

[Anonymous No.12569848]

>>12569791
>>12569797
No, I can't. I assume you are Russian, so I'd like to ask what you think of the Soviet Union and its failure to be a successful state, and how does that compare to the sentiments of your average fellow countrymen?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.12569849]

>>12569836
You could start with Capital or you could check out contemporary interpretations like Harvey's.

[Anonymous No.12569859]

>>12569774
>I’m really fucking sick of blatantly off-topic threads on this board
The board would be dead without them considering that half the people here have never read a book in their lives. Anyways, once you get used to /lit/, going to other boards becomes impossible because of how stupid the people seem, so posting on /lit/ becomes the only option, whether or not it's related to literature.
t. Prolific creator of off-topic threads

[Anonymous No.12569886]

>>12569282
cringe

[Anonymous No.12570090]

>>12569639
lol you read books by a liar, sad

[Anonymous No.12570100]

>>12569848
In that case I will not post any more of the book, since I doubt it will be particularly interesting to you. I am indeed Russian. It's hard to define the "average fellow countryman" here, because I think we still have something of a sharp divide in society. I missed the 90s, so people a little older than me tend to be more positive about Soviet Union, because they grew up under the consequences of its fall. My cohort is frequently way more apathetic because they don't really care and feel more removed.

With regards to its fall, though: Personally, I think I would have liked to live in the Soviet Union, but I also don't know if anything like it can be brought back. I think that it did not fail solely because of treachery, though behavior of last leaders certainly did not help. But you have to remember that the leaders that destroyed it did so with support of the party apparatus.The elites of the system destroyed thier own creation in order to benefit off of its fall, so I think a quick execution wouldn't have saved it. (lots of people think that if you just kill Gorbachev or Yeltsin or make Andropov live 10 more years you could stop the fall)

I don't think most people have negative feelings towards the Soviet Union, but among the youth nostalgia is not that popular either. It is not uncommon, but it is a somewhat edgy position.

Most people my age probably think like: 1) grandma says Stalin was good or bad, so I think this way too; 2) Lenin did his best; 3) collapse was inevitable or treachery but it's over now anyway, and cannot be brought back; 4) many parts of socialist state were good and it's sad we don't have them anymore because of thieving oligarchs (some add and Americans/Jews here, but not really that many)

[Anonymous No.12570113]

>>12570090
Imagine believing this.
I guess it's no surprise since you believe in Marxism 60+ years after it's intellectual and emperical destruction.

[Anonymous No.12570120]

>>12570113
Not that guy, but I think the mistake is that lots of communists think that everything in these books is supposed to be literally 100000% the truth. They are like Holocaust deniers: find one non-truth and go crazy about how it's all lies. Obviously, there are many falsehoods. But that is because it is literature, not history.

[Anonymous No.12570123]

>>12569236
what the HELL is the "Criterion of Practice"?

[Anonymous No.12570143]

>>12569748
obviously not taking problem with the diplomacy itself lol. it's what that diplomacy represented. the bolsheviks wanted to build a state, and any developments in class struggle were therefor damaging for their goals.

[Anonymous No.12570157]

>>12569849
Harvey is retarded and has a grotesque reading of capital. anon is probably better off reading Zur Kritik or Wage Labor and Capital

[Anonymous No.12570162]

>>12570157
elaborate on why Harvey's reading is grotesque?

[Anonymous No.12570176]

>>12570162
jehu's a goofball meme but he does a good job to talk about some of the MANY mistakes here:

https://therealmovement.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/cuckolding-marx-david-harveys-unfaithful-companion-to-capital/

In any case, as with any book, YOU are the one who forms your viewpoint, and you should not have your initial reading polluted with someone else's idiocy. You should build up your own idiocy and then allow it to be torn down either by the logical machinations of others, or your own, so that you can build better understandings that are also your own.

[Anonymous No.12570287]

>>12570176
not very convinced by his arguments, and yeah I agree, I know im getting someone's opinion of Capital when I buy a so called "companion". The point is to try and get some better context on the book, not just completely get all my theory from the companion

[Anonymous No.12570720]

>>12569639
>Believing that all communism is marxist-leninism

[Anonymous No.12570736]

Marxism is a religion. What should I read to understand how typical marxist zealot thinks (if it thinks, doubt.jpg)?

[Anonymous No.12570743]

>>12570736
Grey's anatomy. It gives some insight into brain processes and how thinking happens.

[Anonymous No.12570752]

>>12570736
>Hurr le marxists don't think
At least try to criticize the actual ideology

[Anonymous No.12570915]

>>12570736
The True Believer

[Anonymous No.12570929]

>>12569282
wtf can she be my wife?

[Anonymous No.12571023]

>>12570915
Thanks, found. Found this too on same subject. But these don't really explain self-brainwashing that these internet cretins exhibit. It takes a special kind of mind to reject massively evident ideology failure out of own volition. They are not under social pressure to do so.

[Anonymous No.12571034]

>>12570752
The history of society as we know it has not been one of class struggle.
Marxism is a 19th century take on 19th century industrialisation. This is my criticism of marxism please give me attention

[Anonymous No.12571035]

>>12570752
Real world experiments with it spanning over half the global population over one hundred years had 100% failure rate, causing human suffering and stagnation in every case, with none of the ideological goals ever reached. Likewise none of the Marxist prophesies such as communism spawning first in industrialised Britain in early 20th century did not happen. There.

[Anonymous No.12571040]

>>12570123
why is it none of you marx whores can answer this question? is your dedication to the cause only skin-deep?

[Anonymous No.12571048]

>>12571035
you ever wonder how would these socialist states (Vietnam, USSR, Chile just to name a few) would've turned out without US economic and military warfare?

[Anonymous No.12571068]

>>12571048
They'd probably have a fair bit of problems with building an educated middle class.

[Anonymous No.12571074]

>>12569282
She sounds right and you sound wrong

[Anonymous No.12571079]

>>12569236
I'm reading Gramsci's Prison Notebooks and Bobbio's writings on Marx in Italian .

[Anonymous No.12571084]

>>12571068
Most anti-communists are unintelligent and they always have these really dumb retorts that never refer to any actual social or historical phenomenon but they think sounds good because they picture Jordan Peterson saying it, but even among them you manage to stand out.

[Anonymous No.12571107]

>>12569236
Is Marx's understanding of Human nature the same as Rousseau ?

[Anonymous No.12571122]

>>12571048
Hard to know. It's idiotic whataboutism anyways. What is known is that countries that got rid of socialism did not want it back any time soon nor did their population fight tooth and nail to hold on to what, I assume, you think was superior system. It's also known that entire East Block was big prison for their population, they had no confidence that allowing people out would in any way prove superiority of communist rule, that people would quickly return home from horrors of capitalism. What is also known is that not a single country under communist rule reached living standards parity with comparable capitalist country, nor did they ever reach communism like their purposed goal was. That is utter failure.

[Anonymous No.12571125]

>>12569837
We're both Zoomers

[Anonymous No.12571132]

>>12571084
Are you implying that
>The concept of an educated middle class does not exist, or is irrelevant
>That I like Jordan Peterson
>That I'm one of his dumbest followers
If so, why?

[Anonymous No.12571156]

>>12569236
Communism doesn't work because it implies that men are willing to aid each other in an altruistic way. Only the weak, cripples and naive could advocate such a foolish theory.

[Anonymous No.12571163]

>>12569282
>equality properly realized
You’re not going to convince anybody with that kind of rhetoric. Marxism is NOT about equality. It is about the abolition of class relations. You need to read moar.

[Anonymous No.12571215]

>be communist

>dude just like kill all the rich people lol

[Anonymous No.12571235]

>>12571215
>Try to tax the rich
>They leave

[Anonymous No.12571252]

Hello comrades, I'm looking for a book about successful communist states and how they reached communism.