/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12567661]

Is Capitalism logically immoral?

[Anonymous No.12567675]

>>12567661
>immoral
No.

>amoral
Yes.

[Anonymous No.12567679]

no but it's the best we've got so far. until someone comes up with something better it's the one worth supporting.

[Anonymous No.12567682]

>>12567661
>logically immoral

tf does that even mean

[Anonymous No.12567689]

(((Capitalism)))

[Anonymous No.12567692]

>>12567679
Tribalism

[Anonymous No.12567732]

>>12567661
It's the only system that works. So for lack of alternatives it is the moral system.

[Anonymous No.12567750]

>>12567679
>>12567732

Feudalism

[Anonymous No.12567756]

>>12567689
(((Crony Capitalism))) FTFY

[Anonymous No.12567759]

>>12567661
>no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit

Oddly, all the benefits seem to go one way.

[Anonymous No.12567760]

Capitalism is an abbreviation for "Jewish Bankers"

[Anonymous No.12567769]

>>12567750
Obviously can't compete with Capitalism. Hence it got replaced by it everywhere.

[Anonymous No.12567779]

>>12567661
>logically immoral
What's this supposed to mean? There's logical reasoning involved with morals?
If anything it's logical morals are subjective and abstract, and as such have no relevance to capitalism.
>muh moral absolutism
But even beyond that, no, nothing all parties consent to is immoral.

[Anonymous No.12567780]

>>12567756
Capitalism is cronyism by nature. Or did you miss the part about competition and self-interest?

[Anonymous No.12567785]

>>12567692
Based

[Anonymous No.12567792]

>>12567661
it's based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.12567793]

>>12567661
>logically immoral
You can't rationalize whether something moral unless you make value assumptions which are strictly not rational. So try again, sweetie.

[Anonymous No.12567795]

>>12567780
Only if you let it be, retard.

[Anonymous No.12567797]

>>12567780
It's only crony when the government is involved or sticks there nose too deep in the economy

[Anonymous No.12567799]

>>12567675
Amorality is immoral.

[Anonymous No.12567808]

>>12567780
People who hire the best candidates will outperform people who hire their retarded friends and relatives.

[Anonymous No.12567837]

>>12567799
it's about making good choices without mommy and daddy pushing you along. how is that immoral?

[Anonymous No.12567874]

>>12567732
>>12567679
This is such a brainlet take.

Look, either defend a system and own up to its flaws, or propose a new one. Don't stay in the middle like a coward parroting clichés like that because you sound like someone who has a blind, reflexive adheration to the status quo but at the same time doesn't want to have to respond for any of its negative aspects, so you hide under "hey, it's not my preference, just what we got!"

The lack of brain *and* moral fiber that is implied in this position makes it particularly revulsive among all others. It's so wormy. Wanting to side with the winners without coming off as morally bankrupt. Today, right before bed, I'll pray for both of your deaths.

[Anonymous No.12567883]

>>12567799
absolutely haunted

[Anonymous No.12567889]

>>12567874
> I'll pray for both of your deaths
>GURR CAPITALISM ICKY
>BUT THEN I PRAY FOR YOUR DEATHS
hmmmm

[Anonymous No.12567893]

>>12567679
Wow systems have pros and cons. Just wow. So insightful.

[Anonymous No.12567894]

>>12567679
Communism.

[Anonymous No.12567900]

>>12567874
>propose a new system
Yeah because that's so easy to do...
There is a reason why the critics of capitalism keep repackaging the same old failed socialism, because they can't come up with anything new. But I somehow have to come up with a new system to satisfy your o so great moral standards. Come up with one yourself you lazy shit.

[Anonymous No.12567910]

>>12567874
This. Capitalism is shit. I don't give a fuck if it's "better" than the alternative (it's not). If capitalism can't lead us into an utopia then it's worthless and all the suffering that is experienced under capitalism is capitalism fault for not being better. We need socialism, real socialism.

[Anonymous No.12567911]

>>12567795
>>12567797
>>12567808
Wow, normiechan is a fucking plague.

[Anonymous No.12567929]

>>12567910
The "alternatives" can't lead us into an utopia either brainlet.

[Anonymous No.12567951]

>>12567795
ok, and you let it be
now what?

[Anonymous No.12567956]

>>12567929
Have you heard about a thing called socialism? Of course it won't happen if the capitalist pigs keep undermining it though. This is why the revolution must be global.

[Anonymous No.12567958]

>>12567929
that isn't the attitude to take

[Anonymous No.12567964]

>>12567956
It doesn't work. How many more people need to die until you get it?

[Anonymous No.12567967]

>>12567756
>real capitalism has never been tried
kek

[Anonymous No.12567969]

>>12567964
all of them

[Anonymous No.12567982]

>>12567969

[Anonymous No.12567984]

>>12567967
You can say that about any economic system retard
>Real socialism hasn't been tried
>Real fascism hasn't been tried
>Real capitalism hasn't been tried

[Anonymous No.12567988]

>>12567964
don't like 10 million people die of hunger every year lol

+ god knows how many due to poor labor conditions, lack of healthcare, civil wars, state executions, etc.

[Anonymous No.12567990]

>>12567964
Socialism must work. This much is clear if you study dialectical materialism. It's also evident that the attempt at socialism aren't real socialism if you analyze them. They have been destroyed by corruption and revisionism not to mention the capitalists opposing it. Even then Stalin and Castro did very, very well when you consider they had the entire world against them.

[Anonymous No.12567991]

>>12567964
millions are already dying under capitalism over easily preventable things.

[Anonymous No.12567999]

>>12567964
>It doesn't work.
If me and you and 8 other anons were on an island and trying to survive, we could easily distribute the means of production and the production itself amongst ourselves according to our needs.

>>12567984
Look at the post i replied to.

[Anonymous No.12568002]

>>12567964
Every dead in a capitalist world is capitalism's fault yet I don't see you complaining. You're right about one thing though. When the revolution comes people will die. Capitalists get the bullet.

[Anonymous No.12568007]

>>12567999
>Look at the post i replied to
Government intervention and lobbying isn't a part of Capitalism though

[Anonymous No.12568028]

>>12567990
Talking in terms of real or fake socialism is dumb, Marx didn't have a concept of post-capitalist society with a blueprint or anatomy figured out beforehand because criticizing those who did is literally the gist of his critique of the Utopians.

We should talk about Soviet Union, Cuba, China before Deng and so on in terms an ongoing attempt to build Socialist consistently hampered by geopolitical realities and material conditions. Which is also how their party theorists talked about their systems.

[Anonymous No.12568032]

>>12567990
The fact that it never worked despite having been tried many times is indicative of its flawed concept. Centralizing power leads to corruption, centralizing economical decisions leads to slow reactions to changed market situations and unmanageable complexity, which even incredibly expensive administrative overhead can't handle.
We have seen it all before, you people never learn.

>>12567988
>>12567991
Countless more would die under a system that is dysfunctional. A bad system that works is better than a system that doesn't work at all.

[Anonymous No.12568037]

>>12568007
Oh I guess you are right, real capitalism truly has never been tried.

[Anonymous No.12568042]

>>12568002
>>12567991
>>12567988
aren't you guys assuming that every nation on earth is capitalist? look at a chart of economic freedom, it's not the people who are more economically free (re: more capitalist) that are starving

[Anonymous No.12568046]

>>12568037
Unironically this. I know you're being ironic but it's true

[Anonymous No.12568050]

Aquinas proved that it is immoral in the Summa Theologica.

[Anonymous No.12568051]

>>12568032
Just imagine the most ideal worker within a capitalistic system and you will realize that capitalism is truly a force of evil.

[Anonymous No.12568052]

>>12568042
Economic freedom index is just a libertarian think thank meme. The vast majority of those red countries contain market economies and private property is the dominant type of property.

[Anonymous No.12568053]

>>12568042
No, but the world is capitalist as a whole so everyone who dies and suffers does it under capitalism.

[Anonymous No.12568061]

>>12568042
This is so much bullshit LMAO. Chile is right wing and you're telling me it has more freedom than Argentina or Uruguay? BULLSHIT.
t. Southamerican

[Anonymous No.12568066]

>>12567760
Fractional reserve banking is a form of fraud and has nothing to do with a free market.

[Anonymous No.12568067]

>>12568042
As long as private individuals can own capital then it's capitalism.

[Anonymous No.12568070]

>>12567964
>all these triggered tankie (You)'s shilling their shit economic system that has never worked
People have been saying that capitalism is on its dying breath for over a hundred years. During that time countless socialist shitholes have risen and fallen and capitalism remains. Take a helicopter ride commies.

[Anonymous No.12568071]

>>12568051
I don't care about your moralizing. Come up with a system that is better than capitalism that actually works or fuck off.

[Anonymous No.12568073]

>>12568061
Chile has the 6th most free economy in the world and it's the most 1st world country in S. America

[Anonymous No.12568083]

>>12568042
I like how capitalists, despite their "not real socialism" meme, ironically love to change the definitions whenever it suits them.

Venezuela tries some state control on the economy and welfare policies and goes to shit? Socialism fails. Same thing happens in most developed countries after WW2 and it works? Wow, isn't capitalism great! China grows at fast rate after Mao and India after it liberalizes its economy? Capitalism rules. Oh people are dying there? Damn it's the socialism.

[Anonymous No.12568084]

>>12568073
There are people there who unironically still celebrate their fascist dictator. Don't make me laugh. Just because they are capitalists doesn't mean they have more freedom. Argentina and Uruguay are much more progressive countries.

[Anonymous No.12568088]

>>12567964

[Anonymous No.12568092]

>>12568071
>I don't care about your moralizing.
You and I are both "moralizing". You are saying that we ought to be capitalistic (for whatever reason). I say we ought not because I value human satisfaction and fulfillment within our short lives.

[Anonymous No.12568099]

>>12567799
>amorality is immoral
No it's not you pseud. Nature is amoral, not immoral. If it were immoral, then everything nature would do would trend towards immorality, which does not happen.

Similarly, with capitalism, there is no trend towards immorality. Capitalism does good as well as bad, it all depends upon who is using it and for what reason. There is no morality inhered in a principle as simple as the trade of goods and services, it all depends upon the circumstances and what people are trading.

[Anonymous No.12568100]

>>12567951
You fucked up. Kill the oligarchs, destroy the federal reserve, abandon all fiat currency, kill the bankers, ban bankers from your country, demolish the monopolies.

[Anonymous No.12568105]

>>12568083
Chavez and Maduro are both self described socialists. So was Mao. Deng Xiaoping is famous for opening himself to capitalist ideas. Are you fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.12568106]

>>12568042
I'm a brazilian and the only period we got a semblance of economic freedom was under a socdem government which made the capitalists have anal seizures about communism.

[Anonymous No.12568108]

Capitalism IS a good system and IS effective, but it's historically limited. The one thing Marx said that I agree with is that every systems builds the tools necessary to abolish it, and with the digital revolution I think capitalism has achieved just that.

Don't you guys know the most effective strategy is to use Free Market + full psych to grow your bases really fast? But eventually you need to switch to Democracy + Planned for the later stages. Same thing with reality. And yes I get all my politics from videogames fuck off

[Anonymous No.12568112]

>>12568052
but to what extent? surely some countries are more capitalist than others... can't we try and establish a correlation, either positive or negative, between capitalism and overall economic prosperity?
>>12568053
this seems oversimplistic. is singapore expected to solve ghana's problems because it's more capitalist? is north korea suffering because they exist in a capitalist world?
>>12568061
keep in mind that this is a (out of date) scale of ECONOMIC freedom, not necessarily freedom regarding social policies.
>>12568067
any private individuals, or some? your definition i think is too broad... aren't there different versions of capitalism that have different effects (i.e. a capitalist society with social safety nets vs. one without them)
>>12568106
ask the cato institute lol, i didn't make the chart.

[Anonymous No.12568115]

>>12568108
If you get your politics from videogames you should have realized how capitalist institutions have taken over the early freedom of the digital world, this couldn't be more obvious.

[Anonymous No.12568116]

>>12568106
Lula is a hero. What happened to him is unacceptable. It really saddens me to see how Bolsonaro is getting away with it. The fight will never stop though.

[Anonymous No.12568119]

>>12568105
You didn't really get my point but whatever, I don't feel like arguing with retards rn

[Anonymous No.12568128]

>>12568112
Economic freedom is such a stupid term anyway, what the fuck is economic freedom? Because we're two years in (theoretical) full on neoliberalism and never in my life has my acquisitive power or career prospects so low.
I was more economically free as a intern than I am as a professional with a masters, so once again, explain to me what the fuck economic freedom even means.

[Anonymous No.12568130]

>>12568115
>A state run internet would be great
>A state regulated internet is great
>A state monitored internet is great

[Anonymous No.12568137]

>>12568128
> explain to me what the fuck economic freedom even means
I'm going to guess the most liberalized economies and most de regulated economies

[Anonymous No.12568140]

It really makes me happy to think about how all the fucking capitalist slaves in this thread will get the bullet when the revolution comes. By then it will be to late to stop defending your masters.

[Anonymous No.12568141]

>>12568128
here are the factors that the people who made the chart used: "personal choice rather than collective choice, voluntary exchange coordinated by markets rather than allocation via the political process, freedom to enter and compete in markets, protection of persons and their property from aggression by others"

[Anonymous No.12568155]

>>12568140
>t.

[Anonymous No.12568156]

>>12568128
into* neoliberalism
been* so low
I'm very high you'll have to excuse me
>>12568116
The whole situation is just fucking disgusting, really. I'm don't even like PT that much and only voted for them during second turns where the other alternative was worse, but for all it's flaws, the alternative has not only been worse, but constantly more corrupt as well (not that I didn't knew that, it's just that it's just that these guys are much more OPENLY corrupt, they do a terrible job of hiding it, and yet they seem to come out as heroes to people)

[Anonymous No.12568157]

Nobody actually cares about freedom with the sole exception of Ancaps. Do not trust anyone who claims they sport freedom, fight for freedom, or any variant. They associate freedom with prosperity, and are greedily pursuing what they see as profitable. They merely want to attack those who they perceive to control them, to have more power than them, to feel like the masters of their environment. Its a pursuit of comfort, not independence, 99% of the time. Especially for any liberal individual.

[Anonymous No.12568163]

>>12568141
All of those things were blatantly easier under the left's government. So easy indeed that a bunch of poor / petit-bourgeoise managed to rise itself from the mud, started thinking of themselves as real venture capitalists and had a national meltdown over MUH GUMUNISM.

[Anonymous No.12568165]

>>12567661
>Is Capitalism logically immoral?
Try to conceive of the most ideal worker within a capitalistic system and its immorality becomes very apparent.

[Anonymous No.12568167]

>>12568155
that's an obvious falseflag, and why are you mocking based pisspiggranddad