/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12561636]

>Death means nothing matters dude everything is pointless dude lmao
How does this kind of surface-level nihilism still manage take root in the minds of people with IQs over 90?

[Anonymous No.12561642]

>>12561636
that's actually right tho

[Anonymous No.12561644]

>>12561636
Because that is pop culture philosophy. They think they are being smart

[Anonymous No.12561648]

>>12561636
So, whats the alternative to that, Mr. Smart Guy?
Oh wait let me guess
>DUDE IM CHRISTIAN XD

[Anonymous No.12561650]

Empty hedonism has lead them to become the most retarded beings imaginable - atheists who believe in evolution and aren't going to reproduce. I challenge anyone to name something that is dumber than this.

[Anonymous No.12561658]

>>12561650
Christcucks

[Anonymous No.12561670]

>>12561642
>>12561636
>entire ideology is countered by a doll

[Anonymous No.12561672]

>>12561636
homosexuals who get pounded doggy-style while exclaiming
OH, SWEET MYSTERY OF LIFE!

[Anonymous No.12561673]

>>12561650
evolution is objectively correct and supports christianity just as much as atheism - it is areligious, like the cell.
>>12561648
the natural next step beyond "nothing matters" is "i define what matters to a relative degree". choose good things and not bad ones. use meaningless as a reason to love and not an excuse to hate. i dont believe there is any metaphysical purpose for existence, but i believe it is entire possible to derive healthy values and morals from scientific evidence. what is good and healthy for humans is objective. that is your morality.

[Anonymous No.12561677]

>>12561658
I'm not one and that predictable bot-tier response is not actually a neutralizer for being a fucktard who is admitting that 2 billion years of success should end with them

[Anonymous No.12561687]

>>12561673
Two swings and two misses on the childless atheist comment. Why is this board so dumb?

[Anonymous No.12561692]

>>12561687
this is post is morally and intellectually bankrupt. you are a hyprocrite.

[Anonymous No.12561713]

>>12561692
at the very least, back up what you're saying, instead of being aimlessly snide.

[Anonymous No.12561715]

>>12561713
meant to reply to >>12561687

[Anonymous No.12561720]

They still value something that has some kind of meaning in there life or at least the appearance of it. They should wholefully agree with me if I say art and science is worthless.

[Anonymous No.12561726]

>>12561636
It's the first worldview that you encounter after the excesses of r*ligion. Not everyone reads and can cope with the paradigm shift.

[Anonymous No.12561738]

>>12561670
based arby and chief, i completely forgot about this gem. im gonna go watch it now

[Anonymous No.12561741]

>>12561715
lmao WHAT? You can really not follow the logic that being a self-fellating 2smrat4u evolutionist who is not going to have kids for XY and Z reason is utterly fucking retarded? Reducing the significance of life to its perpetuation, and then rejecting to take part? You're just handing the world to those with kids. And unless you intend on dying young that will in fact have effects on society at large and therefore you as you age.

[Anonymous No.12561744]

>>12561741
i thought we were above condemning vague demographics in lieu of actual discussion on 4channel.org/lit/

[Anonymous No.12561750]

>>12561648
Not religious, religion and reliance upon divine principles for guidance is just as bad in most cases, because it doesn't solve the problem of lack of imperative (you can ask "why" of divine mandate to the point where it too means pretty much nothing). What I'm saying is that using death as the reason for why you shouldn't care about anything is really silly. You aren't living for what comes after your death, you don't even experience your death (these are all notions taken as true if we assume the very "worst" possible post-death scenario), so live and pursue what you will; death only "destroys" your efforts once you're already gone. All your actions have meaning for you, the LIVING you, your immediate goals (which obviously aren't determined with death as their driving motivation) are still worth pursuing, death doesn't really put them in a hopeless or absurd context. And calling your goals pointless in some cosmic frame of reference is pretty silly as well, there's no reason why anyone should be trying to arbitrarily give their goals some significance on the scale of existence in its entirety.

[Anonymous No.12561761]

>>12561636
Ecclesiastes gives the perfect philosophy regarding life; it is vanity, PHYSICALLY meaningless. Because of such we should enjoy it, and not tax ourselves too heavily. But life also is not meaningless because it is the one chance you are given to reap your reward in heaven. There is a balance. But over all the all of man is to fear God and keep his commandments.

[Anonymous No.12561767]

>>12561744
Demographics aren't "vague" because you don't like them. People know who atheists are and what being a fedora tipper is. You're the one who asked me not be "pointlessly snide" and here we are. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.12561773]

>>12561750
>just b urself, YOLO
Very insightful, anon. You should post it in your local facebook group. Thanks for coming by.

[Anonymous No.12561798]

>>12561648

[Anonymous No.12561810]

>>12561642
How do you know death does what we think it does? Who gave you this holistic understanding of death?

[Anonymous No.12561813]

>>12561750
>"Death is not an event in life"
Based Wittposter

[Anonymous No.12561818]

>>12561767
I'm not saying they don't exist, I just think it's pointless to talk about them in the context of debate about the ideas, which is what this thread is about.

[Anonymous No.12561819]

>>12561650
There is nothing wrong with this lifestyle

[Anonymous No.12561821]

>>12561650
so how do species originate if not by evolution huh kid

[Anonymous No.12561824]

>>12561773
>b-but I want a more complex and strict guideline to my existence! It has to be esoteric and complicated, so I can bore people at parties with talk of it!

[Anonymous No.12561831]

>>12561636
I think there's too much burden placed on the orgasm, you know, to make up for empty areas in life.

[Anonymous No.12561843]

>>12561648
HYPOCRITE THAT YOU ARE

[Anonymous No.12561884]

>>12561773
It's not about the primacy of the single life, it's about the inherent meaninglessness of death. We make a big deal about life drawing to close, and so that's where it gets its cultural power from, but really its just a permanent "interruption" of what you were doing, and you never realize that its happened. Up to that point, everything you were doing still had meaning in the context of your experiences and your own rationally defined norms, and then after that point, there is no meaning or meaninglessness, as there is no awareness.
So, even assuming an atheistic stance, this is only to say that there is no reason to not have a reason, as long as you live for your place in the world and for what you have learned, through living, to care about, not for some arbitrary cosmic significance.

[Anonymous No.12561894]

>>12561819
When you're 24. I for one can't wait to eat all of the bitter gen Xers alive. They will not be boomers 2: electric boogaloo. In fact they are breeding themselves out of existence. Edgy faggots.
>>12561821
Swing and a miss

[Anonymous No.12561905]

>>12561650
>Millions of years of fossile evidence
>One book written by sand niggers

[Anonymous No.12561916]

>>12561905
This is getting out of hand. That comment was not even bait. Are you all this insecure? Holy shit.

[Anonymous No.12561918]

>>12561636
Because it's true.

[Anonymous No.12561922]

>>12561916
>Dude why are you replying to a post

[Anonymous No.12561930]

>>12561922
It's the NPC tier responses clearly missing the core message that gets me. Also checked.

[Anonymous No.12561935]

>>12561930
How is it possible to be this off the mark

[Anonymous No.12561948]

>>12561935
That's exactly what I'm wondering myself, man. Preach it brother.

[Anonymous No.12561957]

>>12561894
>Tfw your only achievement in life is a child
Thank god they are not boomers 2.

[Anonymous No.12561962]

>>12561918
Cut off your hands then. Better yet, kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.12561977]

>>12561957
Again, not the point. I'm not the dumbass hedonist typical atheist who thinks that "the universe has no intrinsic meaning" equates to "humanity has no purpose". If you think the existence or not some higher power to tell you that you species and culture and family should just languish and die so you can, what shitpost on 4chan? None of the people on this board even have expensive hobbies. You have no excuse but that you are losers. It works out though, you will be losers bred out of existence. As it should be. /k/ has families, and possessions and property. Good luck in 20 years, keep being a liberal dipshit. It will work out well.

[Anonymous No.12561988]

>>12561930
How does one ignore the fossil records to such a degree? Is it meme brainrot?

[Anonymous No.12562001]

>>12561988
That's not what ever happened. Read the thread you retard. Am I being trolled?

[Anonymous No.12562002]

>>12561977
> If you think the existence or not some higher power to tell you that you species and culture and family should just languish and die so you can, what shitpost on 4chan?

I'm having trouble following your grammar. Could you rephrase this part?

[Anonymous No.12562009]

>>12561977
ESL?

[Anonymous No.12562022]

>>12562002
It's stream of conciousness ;^)
>If the existence or not some higher power is needed to tell you that your species and culture and family either flourish or just languish and die, so you can, what shitpost on 4chan?
Something like that. I am honestly astounded by antinatalism even if you are a materialist or even nihilist. I'm the anon that used to shitpost anti-natalism threads to fucking death about 5 years ago if that helps for the record.

[Anonymous No.12562065]

>>12562022
and what is your argument against antinatalism? biological imperative?

[Anonymous No.12562066]

>>12562022
Honestly, I just believe that bringing someone into this world against their will (wich, of course, it's the nature of birth) is not an inherently good thing, it depends on circumstances.
Why would I want to have a child in a ghetto? In a war zone? And at the same time, even as a middle class I'm basically forcing into years of labour, while some prick who just lucked out of being born from a bilionare profits from his work. So my only aim in life is to give birth to someone who's only aim is also to give birth etc. etc...

I think before perpetrating this cycle we should wonder if there is an end goal to this and from an atheist point of view there isn't, save from maybe technology and trans-humanism.

Might as well use the spare money from not having a child into having a fulfilling life myself.

[Anonymous No.12562072]

>>12561636
>Death means nothing
that's right though "I am resurrection and life. Anyone who believes in me shall live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never die."

[Anonymous No.12562092]

>>12562065
>>12562066
I really, really am not going to get back into this with you faggots because I cannot care anymore. Already done this for many threads. If you want it go back to 2014 summer antinatalist threads. All I care to say to you idiots anymore is that you'll be sorry. Have fun denying the actual meaning of life and being the first failure in a 2 billion year old chain. We all know that its not even that part that triggers you idiots, it's the degenerate hedonist part. You're all going to be skinned alive in your retarded world before you're old. Have fun out there boys.

[Anonymous No.12562112]

>>12562092
Fine, it's too late and you're right in the sense that I should not waste my time discussing online with the personification of flowey from Undertale. If you want, I'm open to discussion, if you're just gonna keep on insulting without argumentating good bye

[Anonymous No.12562130]

>>12562112
You have all of my argumentation. You just want to be the next thomas ligotti on an anonymous image board because for one reason or another you are a shitty undesirable person, and I'm over that. It's for the best anyway you die without children. Who cares? You don't. I don't. Moot point.

[Anonymous No.12562142]

>>12562092
sorry, but antinatalists have already won
even if it takes until the heat death of the universe

[Anonymous No.12562148]

>>12562092
uh, i am not antinatalist, I just wanted a little chat.My take is that making the biological imperative the highest value could lead to some amoral views (hard eugenics), nevertheless "biological imperative" sounds like a self-defeating term, because if we endeed are wired in such a way as to wanting, without choice, spout babys into existance nonstop, then why we can make the decision not to?

[Anonymous No.12562156]

>>12562142
The only way an antinatalist could conceivably win is if you could at least start supporting the most basic of genocides, but you faggots won't even do that. You want to end all suffering on earth but you're not willing to use your life to advance that cause towards actual doomsday weapons and mindset? Not having kids isn't helping your cause. A true anti-natalist would be a varg-tier cultist who tries to end the world with his cadre of military industrial officers and nuclear operator children. You're just a pussy and a loser in some fashion.

[Anonymous No.12562165]

>>12562130
Okay, good night

[Anonymous No.12562172]

>>12562165
Seething eurofag. Have fun in your Connecticut sized mosque when our civil war starts and NATO dissolves

[Anonymous No.12562209]

>>12562156
no single person is capable of killing off the entire planet, why then cause unnecessary suffering? dead people would just get replaced by others
it is a sad state of affairs, but senseless and inefficient murder would be completely counterproductive.

now, lets talk about the values you hold. have you dedicated your life to saving others? why are their lives less important than yours? if you have, are you aware that 6 thousand people die each hour? how do you sleep at night, knowing that if you just woke up 15 minutes earlier you could have a chance of saving fifteen hundred lives?

you can still believe in an ideal and fail to live up to it.

[Anonymous No.12562228]

>>12562209
>6000/hour
>100/minute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GFTNEbu2FU

[Anonymous No.12562230]

>>12562209
>now, lets talk about the values you hold.
Okay
>have you dedicated your life to saving others?
No but I am considering becoming a volunteer firefighter
>why are their lives less important than yours? if you have, are you aware that 6 thousand people die each hour?
That has nothing to do with my point that declaring life "meaningless chance" on a grand scale is a retarded way to view human society and life
>how do you sleep at night, knowing that if you just woke up 15 minutes earlier you could have a chance of saving fifteen hundred lives?
Partially see above but again I just think it's funny people believe they are intelligent for removing their genes from competition. I can't change that mindset though, so like I said who cares? They don't and I don't. Fuck em.

[Anonymous No.12562236]

>>12562209
The true nihilist is one who believes in no normative statements about reality - if suffering is bad or to be avoided that's a normative statement which implies the existence of a positive norm and thus a reason to live. Antinatalists are fucking wild.

[Anonymous No.12562240]

>>12561636
more like everything you do will eventually be forgotten so whats the point

[Anonymous No.12562260]

>>12562236
>Antinatalists are fucking wild.
no, this weird antinatalist-nihilist combo you made up is fucking wild - why did you do that?
one is a belief in no intrinsic value, one assigns negative value, no shit they contradict each other

[Anonymous No.12562274]

>>12562240
Literally who gives a single fuck about being remembered, you're already dead. This isn't to say don't DO things worth remembering, since long-term goals that line up with your values and desires (which are in turn based on human and generally biological and derived norms, all of which have basis in true rationality or at least things that can't be rationally questioned) will still have personal meaning to you. Don't abandon pursuing the shit that you care about just because one day, when we're all gone, it won't be there anymore. It sounds kitschy, but its just a decently rational way to behave and live one's life in pursuit of something, without leaning heavily on the metaphysical (but those that do lean on the metaphysical just have a different set of norms, they are not wasting their lives).

[Anonymous No.12562278]

>>12561798
That answer scares me even more. It's a worse void.

[Anonymous No.12562279]

Its the truth. Anything else is quite literally cope.

[Anonymous No.12562283]

>>12562240
so only if somebody remembers something it matters? in a day or so you ill forget that you made this post, and will you miss it? of course not

and if you remember making it, will that somehow be better? of course not, remembrance in a vacuum holds no value - only in the presence of the present it can be of use, being in this moment holds much more value

[Anonymous No.12562286]

>>12562279
Imagine being 15 for you entire life. Wowie Zowie.

[Anonymous No.12562289]

>>12562286
Cope. Prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.12562294]

>>12562289
No, I won't. You don't believe it yourself, you want to desperately hope in something more. Figure it out on your own.

[Anonymous No.12562297]

>>12562289
There are too many hard limits on the potential of human rationality for positively assertive nihilism to be an even remotely tenable position in [current year].

[Anonymous No.12562301]

>>12562283
>t. a literal nigger
Why aren't you smoking crack right now?

[Anonymous No.12562305]

>>12562172
go back

[Anonymous No.12562306]

>>12562289
I don't care. I want you to die miserable and without legacy. You acknowledge your genes dont deserve to carry on, I return the favor. Kys fag.

[Anonymous No.12562307]

>>12562289
what about extrinsic human structures of meaning?

[Anonymous No.12562310]

>>12562297
iT Iz bEyOnD hOoMaN UnDerStAnDinG!

[Anonymous No.12562313]

>>12562305
See >>12562092. I have probably been here arguing about this bullshit longer than you.

[Anonymous No.12562315]

>>12562301
I'm on 4chan, it wastes my life same as crack. I have no friends, I have no job, I have no hope, I'm patently waiting to die.

[Anonymous No.12562320]

>>12562313
>started browsing in 2014
>thinks he's an oldfag

[Anonymous No.12562324]

>>12562307
You mean the webs of meaning we construct to live with ourselves while perpetuate nature's cycle of cruelty?

[Anonymous No.12562329]

>>12562310
There's no "it". This is not a contraversial or even subjective position. We know jack fucking dick about the universe and cannot deal with things like acausality conceptually in general.

[Anonymous No.12562332]

>>12562320
>the fact that I used to bother arguing with anti-natalists most severely 5 years ago on /lit/ means that I started using 4chan on /lit/ at that time
okay reddit

[Anonymous No.12562335]

>>12562315
Wash your dick anon. I pity you on some level but you are a man, are you not?

[Anonymous No.12562339]

>>12561977
Good job jumping over is-ought gap with power of feelies.

[Anonymous No.12562344]

>>12562332
once a redditor, always a redditor, no matter how much time you spend on this website. go back

[Anonymous No.12562349]

lol jk, you can stay - check my dubs though
and stop being a fag

[Anonymous No.12562360]

>>12562344
I'm sorry that I struck a nerve anon but this is a retarded thread destroying spiral and you know it. We both acknowledge you're a loser who shouldn't reproduce and at the end of the day we're both fine with it. You don't need to throw a fit because I don't believe in you anymore than you believe in yourself. Antinatalism is self-eliminating retardation and you're going to be trapped in your faggot box forever. I hope you at least are a good shitposter here or have some okay posts sometimes.

[Anonymous No.12562362]

>>12562344
>>12562349
based

[Anonymous No.12562365]

>>12562360
>t. breeder with six hundred kids on welfare.

[Anonymous No.12562373]

>>12562365
Why aren't you banging meth Tyrone? The only moment is now. You are a hypocrite. Are you too lame to even find meth? Jeez anon. No wonder you're an antinatalistcelfagtardditor who needs to go back to wizardchan

[Anonymous No.12562380]

>>12562289
Prove yourself right first

[Anonymous No.12562398]

>>12562373
are you merging everyone who you dislike in this thread into one person

[Anonymous No.12562427]

>>12562398
If you all intend on dying and ending your genetic code with you, yeah. You're all the same person: a dead end. At least you can admit you're unfit. I don't understand the hostility, we all seem to agree about the absolute state of yourselves.

[Anonymous No.12562481]

>hahaha you are just a teenager xdd

Not an argument, give me real reasons to live, not this boomer advice. The very fact that reality exists is shocking, what the hell is this? we dwell on impenetrable darkness, there is not god, not atoms, not magic equations, just void everywhere and this meaningless movie running on. It's impossible to live constantly thinking on this void, you need to intoxicate yourself with any trifle in order to cope. I'm trapped inside this void and I'm willingly to read others opinions.

[Anonymous No.12562485]

>>12562427
>a dead end

is not life itself a dead end?

[Anonymous No.12562486]

>>12562481
literally just go outside

[Anonymous No.12562499]

>>12562485
wow

[Anonymous No.12562521]

>>12562427
>t. I've read Dwakins a week ago and replaced God's commandments with propagating my genes.

[Anonymous No.12562534]

>>12562521
lol who cares what you think retard. You've rejected all of meaning of all of humanity and don't intend to have children. You're irrelevant in every way. I hope you die shortly and you probably do as well. There is no reason to be upset anon.

[Anonymous No.12562546]

It doesn't or they would have already killed themselves. The fact that they're still alive and spouting that inane dribble means that they don't truly believe it.

[Anonymous No.12562554]

>>12561650
We're cancer to the world. As long as we get extinct the world will become an utopia.

[Anonymous No.12562565]

>>12561648

[Anonymous No.12562570]

>>12562546
are you a perfect person, exactly as you want to be, never sinning, the best you could possibly be? of course not, you're on 4hcna
you can believe in something and still fail to live up to it

[Anonymous No.12562575]

>>12562554
So much this. We're parasites consuming the earth. I can't wait for the day we're all gone and the planet can bloom again. Humanity was a mistake.

[Anonymous No.12562576]

>>12562565
the alternative is going insane? wow

[Anonymous No.12562581]

>>12561750
This is retarded

We always seek a further ground for any given explanation. If the trail goes cold, and there is no further reason or justification for acting, then our action are unjustified. With all the incredible variety of possible modes of living and kinds of existence, where would one even start to arbitrate between them if there were no transcendental meaning to life?

I'm not saying you need to become religious, but you can't handwave the problem of nihilism away so simply, just because the literal experience of death is outside our living experience, because the knowledge of death is a part of life, and something we experience ourselves as knowing. And there is no way to shut off the human drive to give our actions meaning in spite of our inevitable death. We can either discard the possibility of meaningful action, or we can post some transcendental ground which justifies acting in a particular way.

[Anonymous No.12562588]

>>12562339
man can feel for a reason giga cuck

[Anonymous No.12562592]

>>12562172
>Have fun in your Connecticut sized mosque when our civil war starts and NATO dissolves

now this is optimism i can get behind

[Anonymous No.12562594]

>>12562554
>>12562575
>evolution is good excepting my species because I'm a complete fucking pussy and loser
see ya, won't miss ya
t. everyone else

[Anonymous No.12562605]

>>12562581
You can pursue meaningful things and death doesn't rob them of their meaning for you, though. Their meaning doesn't have to be some far-flung higher goal; we create meaning simply by interacting with others and developing experiential norms. The dichotomy of transcendance or meaninglessness is not stark - meaning in the intrinsic sense isn't absent, it's simply not a functional category in which things can fit without a subject (hence subjective meaning) acting.

[Anonymous No.12562629]

>>12562570
>perfect
>sinning
>best you could possibly be
Tell me, are you an idiot? Do you not understand that these are all concepts derived from a moralistic value system, something that someone who truly believes that there is no meaning or purpose to life would have no use for? You can't ascribe concepts of worth and value to someone who, purportedly, doesn't recognize them.
>you can believe in something and still fail to live up to it
The only way you can possibly "fail to live up to" the belief that life is inherently worthless and without meaning/purpose/value is to recognize some kind of meaning/purpose/value in life. And by so doing, you're negating this "belief" that you supposedly hold.

[Anonymous No.12562739]

>>12562581
What would meaning confer to your actions, exactly? Knowledge that you're moving along some "correct path"? What reward, a sense of accomplishment, pleasure, genuine emotional connection? What of those is not already available in the world, the pursuit of any of them BECOMING your framework for relative personal meaning (defining things as good or bad in relation to the success or failure in this quest)? What would "finding meaning" and thus otright refuting ninilism bring you except the rigidity of a path forward in life; how boring that would be, probably not at all preferable to what we have now. And an afterlife from which we could see the fruits of our labors in life does not kake those things inherently more meaningful either.
There already is meaning, anon. We created the concept without realizing how it only exists in the frame of the subject, and means very little beyond what you want it to mean, its definition being a key part of this meaning-determination for yourself. Meaning only exists from your perspective.
If that isn't good enough to be your meaning, there are always biological/universal norms that route directly to your subjective experience, like love, hate, etc that are all real enough to not require the backbone of some inherent meaning to still be worth experiencing.

[Anonymous No.12562753]

Nihilism≠life has no positive value

[Anonymous No.12562801]

>>12562739
And then why would that "satisfying sense" be meaningful? What rationally justifies the completion of the task?There is no rational solution or alternative in transcendant/objective meaning, which means that nihilism as a lack of meaning is a faulty definition because its opposite leads to the same place. Nihilism is a loop.

[Anonymous No.12562818]

>>12562801
That's because meaning itself has no self-justifying elements of its set, so meaning itself is a loop.

[Anonymous No.12562942]

>>12561650
>Empty hedonism has lead them to become the most retarded beings imaginable - atheists who believe in evolution and aren't going to reproduce

Hedonism means pursuing pleasure over everything. Sex is the highest form of pleasure, therefore atheists and hedonists will seek sex above all else, therefore reproducing at a higher rate than those who do not pursue pleasure above all.

Checkmate, toyboy