/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12551188]

You cannot refute him

[Anonymous No.12551191]

>>12551188
Nobody ever said god was nice.

[Anonymous No.12551192]

>>12551188
>Bone cancer isn't beautiful

Don't knock it til you try it you smug prick

[Anonymous No.12551209]

>>12551188
>you can't just say there's a First Cause that created beings with free-will. You have to account for the evils that are the result of the free-will of beings who do not know the Good yet act anyway, thus creating the evil which is that relation or measure of deprivation of the Good according to their own Nature and thus true freedom of willing. You have to blame this Divine Theos who is responsible for all of the beauty of the laws governing existence despite its fall into sin due to Man for all of the inaccurate and even willfully evil decisions that Mankind make. It's the only Rational™ thing to do

[Anonymous No.12551211]

>if God is good guy who do we suffer??

Suffering is not evil, only sin is. Suffering is fundamental to being near God

[Anonymous No.12551222]

>>12551211
says the guy who doesnt suffer

[Anonymous No.12551246]

>>12551188
>if god exists then why do i feel bad
lmao the absolute state of nu-atheists

[Anonymous No.12551250]

*AHEM*

[Anonymous No.12551261]

>>12551250
can you give me a tl;dr summary?

[Anonymous No.12551266]

>>12551188
"If God exists, then why did he make ugly people?"

[Anonymous No.12551267]

>>12551222
everybody suffers

[Anonymous No.12551274]

>>12551188
in that interview he also said that he wouldn't mind bone cancer in kids if it was the greek gods that existed because they dont pretend to be all righteous

so in other words, its not the suffering of children that bothers him but the alleged hypocrisy of god

[Anonymous No.12551276]

>>12551188
He's a faggot, what does he know of good?

[Anonymous No.12551291]

>>12551222
I have suffered. My brother recently died, my major touchstone of existence. I have fallen in love and had my heart broken. I have been to prison. I have been homeless.

[Anonymous No.12551312]

>>12551274
Based desu

[Anonymous No.12551313]

>>12551267
>>12551291

poor diddums

[Anonymous No.12551316]

>>12551192
Steven Fry has cancer

[Anonymous No.12551317]

>>12551276
God made him a faggot

[Anonymous No.12551320]

>>12551261
Evil is a parasite on the good that uses the energy of the good to prevent the actualization of the goods purpose. Evil does not have an independent existence or form. Everything that exists is good qua its existing. Evil is not a privation of good, it's a parasite of good.

To apply to OPs example. The evil of bone cancer needs the good of a person's living body to act. It takes the energy of that good, the living person who has cell division, and turns it away from the purpose of that good, to the persons degeneration. The evil of bone cancer could not exist in the absence of the good of a body, the evil does not exist independently, it needs to parasite something good.

Note in Platonic usage good and beautiful are interchangeable terms.

[Anonymous No.12551321]

>>12551291

lol get a load of this faggot.

The OP is right by the way. Little Kids Get Cancer is a satisfactory refutation of the claim that a god exists who is 1) omnipotent, 2) omniscient, 3) omnibenevolent, and 4) deserving of veneration. You can break the thing down into cases but if you insist on all four of these while observing that little kids get cancer then you're just a silly sally.

>oh but it's transient and over in an instant

Canard. The existent transience is enough to reject either omnipotence or omnibenevolence. Leibniz is wrong.

[Anonymous No.12551339]

>>12551320
wtf is this absolute delusion

this is as provable as scientology

[Anonymous No.12551358]

>>12551321
Leibniz is wrong but I reject your equating suffering with evil. Suffering is necessary for sacrifice and therefore for love.

[Anonymous No.12551359]

>>12551339
Nominate something that is evil that does not depend on a good to derive its energy from.

[Anonymous No.12551365]

>>12551359
the burden of proof is on you

[Anonymous No.12551369]

>>12551321
God gives autonomy to the world and freedom to its beings. Try again.

[Anonymous No.12551380]

>>12551369
prove it

and also prove he exists WITHOUT referencing the bible and personalfaith

[Anonymous No.12551385]

>>12551365
Evil has no independent existence, there are no examples to give. Plato is right: God is the Good and the Beautiful, goodness and beauty are proof of God.

[Anonymous No.12551392]

>>12551320
But where did evil, this "parasite", come from to begin with if The Good is that from which all emanates? Wouldn't the Good have had to "create" it, or at least facilitate its existence and therefore stand as the cause of it, which would mean it was no longer Good?

[Anonymous No.12551394]

>>12551385
Prove it

[Anonymous No.12551397]

>>12551394
shut up retard. you are out of your depth

[Anonymous No.12551399]

>>12551397
Says the guy who makes unsubstantiated claims without any proof and complete gobbledygook

[Anonymous No.12551403]

>>12551380
The absence of quantifiable proof does not prove non-existance. When with you atheists admit you rely on faith just as much as theists. You even lul yourself into thinking science is mostly fact when that’s largely theory based with supporting evidence. The logical conclusion is to be agnostic since there is no conclusive proof either way but at least theists admit that.

[Anonymous No.12551405]

>>12551399
no, I'm someone else annoyed at your sixth grade level of comprehension. fuck off moron

[Anonymous No.12551409]

>>12551188
Isnt he nonce

[Anonymous No.12551412]

>>12551405
Still cannot prove a single thing you have said

Moving into ad hominem territory here

[Anonymous No.12551416]

>>12551380
Beautiful particulars exist. Beauty is common to all forms and no form can exist without beauty. A unitary Beauty-in-itself must therefore precede all forms as their common source. Forms are necessary outside of time and space because they are unchanging and accesible to any particular, observer, or mind at any time or point in space. The unitary Beauty-in-itself from which all other forms derive therefore exists outside of time and space, and be inexhaustible and ineffable.

[Anonymous No.12551418]

>>12551416
Nothing of that is based on any empirical evidence and is all personal drivel

[Anonymous No.12551420]

>>12551392
The autonomy and freedom given to the world.

[Anonymous No.12551423]

>>12551418
you are a monument to stupidity

[Anonymous No.12551424]

>>12551317
Nope. being gay is a choice.

[Anonymous No.12551430]

>>12551418
The premise that beautiful particulars exist is an emperical observation. Noetic arguments exist independently of any particular nous. Try again.

[Anonymous No.12551432]

>>12551380
Bad/evil is a relative term and can only be understood in the context of good. I’ll give you a example, many will suggest America’s fast food market is evil because it is unhealthy, over processed and slowly killing many people. All of which is correct because we have the ability to eat a healthy balance diet and live a much better quality of life but take us back 200 years ago when some peasants subsided purely on bread and scraps and it would be hailed as an amazing thing for being able to provide relatively nutritionous meals at cheap prices.

[Anonymous No.12551433]

Stephen Fry is pompously engaging with a straw man, but the glib responses of 4chan-christians to this are cringe. The problem of evil can't be waved off -- when you really, really engage with the extent and depth of suffering that exists. The greatest saints and scholars have agonised over it.

[Anonymous No.12551435]

>>12551321

If bone-cancer is the reason why god doesn't exist then gif related is as good a reason that he does.

[Anonymous No.12551438]

>>12551403
>You even lul yourself into thinking science is mostly fact when that’s largely theory based with supporting evidence.
>largely theory
>theory

[Anonymous No.12551440]

>>12551433
Nominate something that is evil that doesn't depend on a good for its energy.

[Anonymous No.12551441]

>>12551192
Might be beautiful, but that doesn't mean it isn't one of the most awful and excruciatingly painful cancers out there.

Am christian btw. Bad things happen on earth. Not Gods fault.

[Anonymous No.12551443]

>>12551440

[Anonymous No.12551444]

Why is this a /lit/ thread?

Anyway, shut the fuck up and read books.

[Anonymous No.12551445]

Id rather an hero than get bone cancer

[Anonymous No.12551448]

>>12551444
/lit/ doesn't read, /lit/ collects books for shelf threads.

[Anonymous No.12551452]

[Anonymous No.12551458]

Q because P roughly corresponds with P being a reason for Q. Or that argument he wants to knock down is something like If P, then Q. P. Therefore Q. Or that: "If the world is beautiful, then there is a God. It is the case that the world is beautiful. Therefore, God Exists" By then saying that "there exists bone cancer in children" as a counter is to deny the antecedent (the world is not beautiful). So Fry is making a formal logical fallacy.

[Anonymous No.12551459]

>>12551423
>>12551430

Not an argument

[Anonymous No.12551462]

>>12551440
If we're talking about the problem of evil in terms of "can God make something that is evil?", then I think the privation theory of evil is a reasonable answer, although I wonder about its scriptural validity. Then again, that answer might be meaningless word games, semantics. A shift in perspective, not a metaphysical truth.

What I'm addressing more is the attitude people have to the problem of suffering. Yes, nu-atheists are annoying. But glibness, pride, self-satisfaction are not Christian attitudes. A lot of people asking these questions might be crude and undereducated, but their queries are sincere. I dislike it when people write them off. Hostile argumentative crap.

[Anonymous No.12551478]

>>12551441
>that eye socket
Jesus

[Anonymous No.12551484]

>>12551462
So first you agree that Fry's statement in OP is wrong, and that an argument from beauty is not threatened by the existence of evils like bone cancer? Can do general theodicy afterwards.

[Anonymous No.12551490]

>>12551191
christians say it all the time

[Anonymous No.12551494]

>>12551484
Formally, yes. I don't put much stock in the argument from beauty for my own reasons though. What I'm really talking about is not the arguments themselves, but the detached, callous attitudes people respond to them with. They are bartering incredulity and condescension.

[Anonymous No.12551497]

>>12551478
Agreed.
:(

[Anonymous No.12551500]

>>12551462
I doubt a religion based upon the crucifixion of God and the torture and martyrdom of saints has a genuine problem with admitting that God intends us to suffer to some degree, the attitudes of some moderns aside.

[Anonymous No.12551524]

>>12551500
It's not about whether suffering is a part of God's creation in Christian doctrine. That's obvious. It's unavoidable for any theistic belief system. But I don't think you should dismiss the dire dissonance people have about suffering and God. There's nothing Christian about being flippant and dismissive about it -- you do Christianity a disservice by being like that. You replace God's consolation with verbal brutality. And this sort of introspection about the relationship between justice, divinity and suffering isn't limited to "moderns" either. It's ancient.

[Anonymous No.12551526]

>>12551494
IDK, I read how saints were tortured and killed and know that I'm not better than them and should not expect to deserve better from life. Seems an act of narcissism to declare yourself exempt from the suffering that others in history have had imposed on them, Christian and non-Christian.

[Anonymous No.12551529]

>>12551524
>>12551524
>But I don't think you should dismiss the dire dissonance people have about suffering and God.
I disagree. It's narcissism and a lack of humility to think you are exempt from the lot of suffering.

[Anonymous No.12551544]

>>12551412
prove he hasn't proved it
then prove he has to prove it
then prove your proofs are provable
fucking moron

[Anonymous No.12551549]

>>12551544
burden of proof is on the person making a claim you brainlet

[Anonymous No.12551553]

>>12551526
>>12551529
It's usually not framed in terms of personal suffering. See Stephen Fry's rhetoric, which is about bone cancer in children.

One objection might be the suffering experienced by hundreds of billions of non-human animals. At the end of their lives, there is no relief, no consolation. Only agony and then non-existence. Does God wipe away the tears of a primate mother whose monkey infant is killed by an alpha male? What about ducks? They reproduce almost exclusively through sexual coercion i.e. rape. Is this the penance paid by mortal animals for man's sin?

[Anonymous No.12551557]

>>12551549
You're the one making the claim that evil exists

[Anonymous No.12551558]

>>12551549
prove it

[Anonymous No.12551566]

>>12551557
no one ever said anything about 'evil' until a christlarper said it

[Anonymous No.12551568]

>>12551365
You only need one counterexample to show that he is completely wrong. So do it, name one thing which is evil which does not rely on some good to exist

[Anonymous No.12551572]

>>12551568
prove it is something to refute

[Anonymous No.12551577]

>>12551188
this gayfaggot thinks god doesn't punish innocent people
motherfucker made us, motherfucker can take us

now he'll get his ass ripped to shreds by a demon dick for all eternity then we'll see how clever he really is

[Anonymous No.12551579]

>>12551568

communism

[Anonymous No.12551580]

>>12551553
You're back to the evil from good argument. Those evils exist as parasites on the good of reproduction and herd formation. To what degree animals participate in providence and goodness and beauty, then yes, God wipes the baby monkeys tears and holds the raped ducks wings, and to the degree of their station they participate in providence, goodness and beauty.

[Anonymous No.12551595]

>>12551579
Communism is a type of government and authority, both goods.

[Anonymous No.12551612]

>>12551577
motherfucker made him gay

[Anonymous No.12551614]

>>12551580
Is the genesis of these 'evils' the fall of Man? It is just hard to square this with the eternal justness of God. If I recall correctly, animals, not being rational souls, do not have moral culpability. Not only are they innocent of man's sin, they're innocent in essence. Given that God is infinitely merciful, it seems a queer blindspot for many innocents to suffer without relief or recompense (assuming our theories of animal suffering as well as the fate of animal souls are correct).

[Anonymous No.12551660]

>>12551614
Why is unjust to suffer? You are not God, an animal is not God. Suffering is essential to all beings but God (who isn't a being in his essence), and even God choose to become man to suffer.

A created being that did not suffer would be unjust. This is the narcissism of self-deificiation to say "it's unjust for me to suffer."

[Anonymous No.12551693]

>>12551614
The genesis of the evil is not being God and therefore not having perfect qualities that are perfectly performed, and not experiencing the perfect performance of perfect qualities by all external beings and things you interact with.

[Anonymous No.12551720]

>>12551188
this guy is an idiot though, he smugly generalized all American humor as narcissistic band British humor as self depricative

[Anonymous No.12551740]

>>12551188

bone cancer is just caused by the devil duh
god is responsible for all the good stuff and the devil is responsible for all the bad stuff
it's pretty simple when you think about

[Anonymous No.12551775]

>>12551441
did he died

[Anonymous No.12551787]

>>12551441
it doesn't matter, god is irrelevant

[Anonymous No.12551790]

>>12551291
Jesus what is it with this board?
Everyone here is supposedly a deadbeat genius
>I'm homeless, I've been to prison, I eat opium, also I'm well versed in archaic orthodox chrisitan scripture, I'm teaching myself latin and I studied at a prestigious institution for years
When I first started visiting this board in particular I was intimidated, as a rule the anons here are more eloquent and have a way of wording things that make them seem like they're really well read. The more I read myself though, as I was a complete noobie at first and hadn't even started with the greeks yet, the more I can actually understand what people are saying and the more I can see how hollow most of the pseud tier hot takes really are. It's just "flexing", and the fact that even a literal brainlet who felt totally overwhelmed by the discussion on this board a few years ago can become comfortable with it shows that. I haven't developed that style of post myself, maybe because I still spend a lot of time on other boards as well, where the custom is more to type as you would talk in a casual conversation thank god. Nowadays I can actually see how insufferable it is.


Hot take of my own, the truly "high IQ" and "intellectual" board is /sci/, because unlike here I couldn't ever learn to understand most of what they're talking about however much work I put in.

[Anonymous No.12551794]

>>12551790
Holy shit, you actually thought highly of this board? Naivety alert!

[Anonymous No.12551818]

>>12551790
This board was pretty good in 2011 and before that, after that it started deteriorating in quality but it wasn't all bad until after 2014. In 2016 it reached the apex of it's shittiness.

[Anonymous No.12551825]

>>12551660
>Suffering is essential to all beings
Why? Because of a deprivation of perfection? Is suffering a necessary result of imperfection? Of lacking ? But not all created things have the capacity to suffer. Consciousless matter does not. There are basic forms of life such as bacteria that probably have no suffering to speak of. Perhaps even some insects who are capable of qualia and willed action. Therefore it is conceivable that there can be thinking beings who do not suffer.

[Anonymous No.12551846]

>>12551775
He's okay, it was CGI

[Anonymous No.12551856]

>>12551794
Cringe, fuck off retard

[Anonymous No.12551860]

>>12551790
This, it’s the worst with the philosophy threads posted here. Literally not even an undergrad intro course understanding of basic theory, yet still people feign wisdom. It’s embarrasing.

[Anonymous No.12551865]

Stephen Fry is what an idiot imagines an intellectual to be.

[Anonymous No.12551902]

>>12551825
>Consciousless matter does not suffer
All material things suffer to the degree it is ugly or non-good. The degree to which a circle you draw is imperfect is the suffering of that circle, and is its ugliness and non-goodness. Because the teleological cause of all things is their form (which is synonymous with being perfectly good and beautiful), to the extent it fails to actualise that form is the extent to which it suffers.

Obviously to experience an emotion of suffering, as distinct from a state of suffering, requires a being capable of experiencing emotion, but again we're back to the evil from good argument. The emotion of suffering is a parasite of the good of emotion.

[Anonymous No.12551939]

>>12551902
feser, my enemy..

[Anonymous No.12552004]

>>12551188
>logical problem of evil
When will this meme die?

[Anonymous No.12552026]

Children get bone cancer because they are born into a world corrupted by sin and death, and are guilty themselves of the sin of Adam.

[Anonymous No.12552126]

>>12552026
this is /lit/ in 2019

[Anonymous No.12552133]

>>12551188
What does it matter? All is Grace.

[Anonymous No.12552137]

>>12552026
KYS
i met a child with cancer last stage in a hospital elevator, with his mom. The child was smilling and happy i talked to him briefly, a saint.Then i looked deep in his mother eyes, she looked like a proud woman, she had lost weight. there was nothing to be said, her look still haunts me.I was with my son. Guillt,relief,pity,sorrow. The image of the child: he was a sore, melted hands, huge glowing smilling eyes. so much love between them.I never believed in an interventionist god. But if i did i would have lost faith then and there. He died some months after.

[Anonymous No.12552143]

>>12552026
This. Not to mention, they're worse off as they age. Most would have grown to be terrible people.

[Anonymous No.12552156]

>>12551441
>Not God's fault
Depends on how big your definition of God is.

[Anonymous No.12552158]

>>12552137
God granted them the gift of life in the first place. The duration matters not.

[Anonymous No.12552159]

>>12551438
What is the big bang or evolution if not accepted theories? There isn't conclusive proof of either and science is very biased to only view what is quantifiable which is why it can't answer many big questions.

[Anonymous No.12552168]

>>12552137
No one told you to like it, buddy. Death is an unnatural, hateful thing. You are the one that believes that death is normal, not Christians.

[Anonymous No.12552173]

>>12552137
Pussy. Boccaccio witnessed half his city die to Black Death and still remained a jovial womanising Catholic.

[Anonymous No.12552181]

>>12552158
maybe if you spend some time at a childrens cancer ward you would change your mind. You read about it, but its so different when you are confronted by the physicallity of it.Out of respect of his name i cannot describe his body, the pain and the crushed soul that his mother had become.Its inexcusable, words fail you, what was i to say to her? You are lucky he lived for 8 years?

[Anonymous No.12552183]

>>12551448
Sh-shut up

[Anonymous No.12552192]

>Jesus, I am weeping, I have seen a boy afflicted with horrible pain, I have seen his suffering mother.
>No one told you to like it, buddy.

[Anonymous No.12552194]

>>12552181
I imagine there isn't anything you can say if you believe that the only thing awaiting a dying child is oblivion.

[Anonymous No.12552198]

>>12552137
Bet you wouldn't feel that way about the third cancer child you met, and I bet the doctors who regularly see children dying of cancer don't feel that way. Sure the first one had an impact, but less so the second one, and even less the third. And here is the problem of modern sentimentalism, it's insulated from the reality of death, life, and suffering, and compartmentalizes them to be outside normal everyday experience. The normal historical experience was that everyday people would be exposed to death, health related pain and suffering, miscarriage, infant mortality, untreatable infections, untreatable dental pain etc. and by necessity they could not develop a false consciousness of life bracketed off from the inevitability of death and suffering.

[Anonymous No.12552206]

>>12552181
He is fortunate to have had any life. Temporal existence is over in a heartbeat. Suffering makes people better. The child was saint like because he had suffered so much and, if baptised and he believes in Christ, has reaped the reward of eternal salvation. Suffering purifies the soul as fire purifies gold.

[Anonymous No.12552210]

>>12552194
you can lie if it makes them feel better

[Anonymous No.12552214]

>>12552206
>if baptised and he believes in Christ
and if not? lol

[Anonymous No.12552219]

>>12552137
>>12552181
Meditations 4.50: "A trite but effective tactic against the fear of death: think of the list of people who had to be pried away from life. What did they gain by dying old? In the end, they all sleep six feet under—Caedicianus, Fabius, Julian, Lepidus, and all the rest. They buried their contemporaries, and were buried in turn.
"Our lifetime is so brief. And to live it out in these circumstances, among these people, in this body? Nothing to get excited about. Consider the abyss of time past, the infinite future. Three days of life or three generations: what's the difference?"

[Anonymous No.12552242]

>>12552214
God is glorified even in the punishment of the damned.

[Anonymous No.12552246]

>>12552242
stupid 4chan christcuck, speaking like a demented fucking robot. you think augustine, aquionas, st francis, st paul or the pope would speak this way? fuck off.

[Anonymous No.12552249]

>>12552246
Yes.

[Anonymous No.12552251]

>>12552198
you can never be that de-sensitised. Doctors & nurses that deal with dying children have a moratorium of i think 5 years working at the cancer ward, because they get mental health issues(at least where i live). The thing that shocks you most is not the act of death, that in many cases is liberating, but the pain they go through. God was dead in the eyes of that woman, the mother,that will continue to live for many years in survivor guilt. My sister worked in paliative for some years, you never get used to death.

[Anonymous No.12552258]

>>12552249
glib. you get off on making people upset.

[Anonymous No.12552261]

>>12552246
Man exists to glorify God. God will be glorified one way or the other. It isn't a true fulfillment of your telos but God will not be thwarted.

[Anonymous No.12552265]

>>12552219
these are beautiful.

"Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist." Epicurus

[Anonymous No.12552266]

>>12552261
unfortunately you're not contributing to god's glory (his desire that all be saved) with your shamelessness. you are being antagonistic and callous on purpose. what an embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.12552273]

>>12552251
>Doctors & nurses that deal with dying children have a moratorium of i think 5 years working at the cancer ward,
Lol no. And there is no health field that doesn't deal with death and suffering everyday of their career. You live in a modern bubble bracketed off from normality. Death is normal. Suffering is normal. Prior to anti-biotics infant mortality was normal, and multiple miscarriage was normal: most women had multiple still births and toddler deaths. And here you go melancholy about contemporary child mortality which is orders of magnitude lower than at any point in human history.

And here you are unable to do with a basic facet of existence: that you will die and that you suffer, without being plunged into spasms of melancholy and neuroticism.

[Anonymous No.12552280]

>>12552214
The child was granted the gift of life. Though having not the law, the deeds of God are written in his heart by your detail of him. Not knowing Christ, yet suffered as him. The infinite capacity of God can see beyond belief at his age, where it may not be understood and comprehended. If he was not baptised, the fault lies on the maligned influence of the parents and, lest they repent, they are to be punished in eternal fire. Christ warned of them, who said whosever shall cause on of these little ones to sin, it would be better for a millstone to hanged around his neck and drowned.
However, if the child denied Christ willfully out of his coldheartedness, he is not saved and also is damned.

[Anonymous No.12552290]

>>12552258
Pride should be upsetted. Stop thinking you are above suffering or risk of damnation. Be humble.

[Anonymous No.12552295]

>>12552280
What is the purpose of paedobaptism? In early Christianity they use to delay it until the death bed -- though I believe this practice was subsequently criticised. You didn't make clear the fate of the unbaptised child, you said the fault lies with the parents, but does the child still pay the price for his original sin?

[Anonymous No.12552296]

>>12552258
Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things.

[Anonymous No.12552309]

>>12552273
Have you had personal experience, or do you prefer lecturing people with your conjecture about modernity? Do you think pre-modernity had less trauma, less misery, less melancholy, or more of it? People have been crying out to God for consolation and explanation since time immemorial. It is recorded in the very scriptures you hold dear. Don't act like this is some whiny modern thing.

[Anonymous No.12552311]

>>12552295
>In the matter of bodily health, no one says, “Let him alone; let him be worse wounded; for he is not yet cured”! How much better, then, would it have been for me to have been cured at once--and if thereafter, through the diligent care of friends and myself, my soul’s restored health had been kept safe in thy keeping, who gave it in the first place!

[Anonymous No.12552316]

>>12552295
The child's soul needs to be spiritually inscribed with magical signets to traverse the aerial daimons and reach the aether realm of the gods beyond the Zodiac.

[Anonymous No.12552319]

>>12552265

[Anonymous No.12552324]

>>12552309
You are a whiny modern. Yes I deal with cancer patients every day. Try reading a book on the everyday historical experience of mortality and suffering. As a start, read the introduction in Boccaccio's Decameron on the Black Death in Florence.

[Anonymous No.12552337]

>>12552324
You probably believe the Holocaust didn't happen.

[Anonymous No.12552341]

>>12552295
It depends on one's theological perspective. In Catholicism baptism is necessary to place the child in a state of grace so that it can be saved. In Reformed theology it is necessary to place to child within the covenant by giving it the appropriate sign, which may or may not be fulfilled by the child having faith. Personally I think the entire issue is tied up with creating a "Christian nation" (I am using scare quotes on purpose), whereby membership in the Church becomes synonymous with citizenship.

[Anonymous No.12552342]

>>12552273
As i said where i live, they dont allow nurses and doctors more than 5 years in paliative cancer children ward. As for death, since we are in lit I will reply with D.T., in raging against the dying of the light, especially when it concerns a small child. The hurt i felt as a parent and human, was not only about the child, it was about the mother and myself as i could do nothing to help. Please dont mix sociopathy with modernity.

[Anonymous No.12552365]

>>12552342
In reality many doctors, nurses, and institutions specialise in palliative care and build successful lifelong careers out of dealing with the dying everyday of their medical careers. They often get nicknames about being "doctor deaths" managing "heavens waitingroom" or some varient. Death is normal. Everybody does it. You are a whiny modern bracketed off from the most essential part of what it is to be human.

[Anonymous No.12552371]

>>12552365
>They often get nicknames about being "doctor deaths" managing "heavens waitingroom" or some varient.
Doesn't that imply they're exceptional?

[Anonymous No.12552374]

>>12551316
Makes you think.

[Anonymous No.12552389]

>>12552273
>most women had multiple still births and toddler deaths.
The theologian John Owen (d. 1683) had 11 children. 10 died in infancy and the other died as young adult.

[Anonymous No.12552393]

>>12551865
Thanks, Stewart

[Anonymous No.12552409]

>>12552371
No, most doctors have nicknames for whatever they specialise in.

[Anonymous No.12552412]

>>12552409
*shoots your entire family in the head*

[Anonymous No.12552414]

>>12552389
Wow did he become a neurotic weirdo unable to get out of bed in the morning?

[Anonymous No.12552418]

>>12552414
Do you have bad bedside manner with your patients, assuming you work in a cancer ward? I don't know how you deal with all those whiny moderns.

[Anonymous No.12552422]

wtf is with whiny moderns these days. lol, just get over it stupiod monkey.

[Anonymous No.12552431]

>When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.
>And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
>Jesus wept.
John 11:33-35
yo why the fuck is this whiny modern crying

[Anonymous No.12552435]

>>12552422
And a few minutes later the monkey is back to his normal self. He authentically experiences his grief, then he authentically returns to his monkey nature, ready to actualize monkey goodness and monkey beauty.

[Anonymous No.12552451]

>>12552431
>Then Jesus couldn't go on. He turned back from the road to Jerusalem and went back to his village in Galilee to sulk for the rest of his days, never to be heard from again.

[Anonymous No.12552452]

>>12552365
my sister was in palliative. Eventually it leads to the shrink if you do it over a long time.I come from a family of doctors. The best doctors are those with the messiah complex that work super hard,and no one likes to see their patients die. The most important part of being human is NOT accepting death. Thats why we invent most of our tech/medicine to cheat death, and live better than animals. The driving force behind all of mans acomplishments is to makes us live more and better. Poetry and literature are a huge part of our failed attempts to reach immortality.

[Anonymous No.12552457]

>>12552435
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240441/
whiny moderns these days.. if only these monkeys were alive during the black plague.. yooo why'd that burton freak write the anatomy of melancholy in the 1621... whiny modern...

[Anonymous No.12552463]

>>12552451
>And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Matthew 26:39
this fucking entitled whiny modern thinks he's TOO GOOD for crucifixion
LOL
frickin cancer patients these days.. just as narcissitic as jesus..

[Anonymous No.12552475]

>>12552422
>>12552431
>>12552457
>>12552463
>get btfo'd
>proceed to sperg out
Good job coping with that loss anon

[Anonymous No.12552480]

>>12552475
hello whiny modern. did u know afghanistani tribe cry when taliban shoot them. strange.. whiny moderns..

[Anonymous No.12552490]

can someone tell those whiny moderns over in the trench over trhere to stfu

[Anonymous No.12552492]

>>12552452
No you lack humility and think you are too good for death. You have a sickness of arrogance and naivety about what life is. I don't know how you should cure it, I'd suggest reading first hand historical accounts where people die every other page, perhaps sociological stuff from pre-WW2.

Doctors are generally not fragile and most deal with several of their patients dying each month if not each week. Again many doctors specialise in palliative care and only see dying patients to load them up with morphine to ease the journey home. Death is normal, the funeral bells toll for you too.
>Now this bell tolling softly for another,
says to me, Thou must die.

[Anonymous No.12552503]

why r these german crying at holocaust footage?? frickin hell lol. death is natural u retards. didnt u guys have like at least 1 miscarriage per family? another whiny modern behaviour..

[Anonymous No.12552512]

stop being narcissistic you whiny modern!! hahahaha.. weak bitch. cant wait for u to squal in hell like that.. when r we gonna get some footage of the children who died in the holocaust burning in hell? I need to watch it. helps me stop being a whiny modern... mmhmmff.. yeah.. mm.. burn those hands to a crisp.. mmommys dearest eyes melt. . ooh yeah..

[Anonymous No.12552517]

hmmm.. you'd expect these africans to be a little more humble.. why the FUCK are u crying over your dying ebola tribe members u fuckin retads

[Anonymous No.12552524]

apparently suicide is common among these whiny modern child soldiers. pathetic. how ungrateful for the gift of life. good thing they go to hell lol

[Anonymous No.12552529]

>>12552490
See>>12552435
The soldiers are back fighting the next day, as fought for hours after witnessing their comrades death that very day, the moment for grief display only comes after the battle had ended, not at the moment of traumatic experience.

Authentic grief for it's moment, then a return to the normality of soldiers life, because those deaths are normal and ordinary, like grief display is normal and ordinary, and the return to battle is normal and ordinary for the soldier on campaign.

[Anonymous No.12552533]

dont worry ma'am, death is natural

[Anonymous No.12552539]

>>12552529
lots of soldiers were repeatedly hospitalised for shell shock during the war, and we all know the difficulty many veterans experience readjusting to civilian life. just another whiny modern thing..

[Anonymous No.12552544]

can u believe god almost cried over this. another frickin whiny modern

[Anonymous No.12552545]

Having a whine meltdown is very whiny modern. No pre-modern would repeat the same bad argument over and over in an emotional breakdown.

Remember the snares of the world are defeated with humility. Be humble and accept your mortality.

[Anonymous No.12552549]

God didn’t create the world purely for humans. He created it to glorify Himself by attaining understanding of his omnipotence, thereby fulfilling his omniscience. Evil is just as necessary as good, in that sense.

[Anonymous No.12552551]

>>12552545
stop trying to speak for us pre-moderns u frickin whiny modern. like umm sweetie we had plenty of deranged nuerotics and crazy u fuckin retard. god i hate whiny moderns with no conception of pre-modern life,.

[Anonymous No.12552555]

>>12552539
I prefer soldiers that maintain combat effectiveness.

[Anonymous No.12552559]

yo can someone dig me out of this rubble. i got some whiny moderns to argue with on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.12552563]

all these whiny moderns KNEW jesus was gonna be resurrected and they still threw a fuckin fit. jeez

[Anonymous No.12552567]

So what makes you different and exempt from all this death and suffering? If it's so common and universal one could say it's a normal and ordinary experience of human existence?

[Anonymous No.12552575]

Why did you never answer this question?
>>12552337

[Anonymous No.12552585]

>>12552567
Why do you think it's about me personally? That I think I should be exempt? retard. I've suffered, but I don't mourn over it as much as I do others.

[Anonymous No.12552605]

This is a fallen world. The scriptures clearly state that Satan rules over it. Even with the afflictions he inflicts upon us in this life we can choose to keep steadfast in our faith and bring a greater good out of it

[Anonymous No.12552611]

>>12552585
Ok then answer as it concerns them:
So what makes others different and exempt from all this death and suffering? If it's so common and universal one could say it's a normal and ordinary experience of human existence?

[Anonymous No.12552612]

>>12551211
Imagine having to do these mental gymnastics. Dumb christ cuck.

[Anonymous No.12552626]

>>12552612
>>12552549
Why should God not create human suffering? Perhaps God doesn’t want a world irrationally without suffering. It’s not as if God suffers just because humans or alligators or chimpanzees suffer.

[Anonymous No.12552655]

>>12552626
Yes, perhaps God enjoys watching innocent people die while many first worlders live an indolent and comfortable life.

[Anonymous No.12552660]

>>12552611
I'm not arguing that death is unnatural or unjust. I'm just ridiculing your blase attitude which you arrogantly coat with a thin veneer of pseudo-traditionalism. You might as well attribute Achilles' rage over Patroclus' death to whiny modernism. Your tone is also bafflingly proud, like you take a lot of pleasure in belittling the sufferings of children with cancer and their parents. Another predictable NPC manufactured by /christian/ and Pastor Anderson.

[Anonymous No.12552670]

>>12552660
oops, didnt mean to spoiler

[Anonymous No.12552673]

>tfw you know God won't let you suffer or die because you're the protagonist of the movie running inside your head

[Anonymous No.12552689]

>>12552655
Maybe God does enjoy it. Maybe it fulfills his omniscience. After all, God can’t truly perceive something without its existence. Everything is the movement toward truth. God doesn’t think in terms of pleasure vs. suffering like you.

[Anonymous No.12552706]

>>12552660
You're entirely governed by pathos. A mental infant run by overemotionality. Did the big mean specter of death scare you? Do you need the priest to change your nappy?