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/lit/ - Literature

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1253479 No.1253479 [Reply] [Original]

Catch 22 discussion thread /lit/

If you haven't read it yet, I'll give you precisely three hours to fix that.
My version has approx 450 pages so get to it.

>> No.1253482

If you read Catch-22 in three hours then you are a speed-reading dipshit and missed over 50% of the jokes because you were more concerned with finishing the nearly meaningless vehicle that is the plot line.

>> No.1253486

>>1253482
never said I did, I let it shimmer through a whole week and a half

>> No.1253488
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1253488

Milo and his insane troll logic.

How does it work?

>> No.1253492

Major Major Major Major.

Also, Milo is a dick.

>> No.1253507

People my hearth wept for:
Major Major Major Major
the Chaplain
Snowden
McWatt
Flume

People I wanted to kick in the nuts and then some:
Peckem
Cathcart

>> No.1253514

It's like blackadder goes forth meets M.A.S.H. meets Good Soldier Svejk, but not like that at all.

>> No.1253520
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1253520

>mfw when Orr lost in the storm

>> No.1253522
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1253522

>>1253507
>People I wanted to kick in the nuts and then some:

ARFY

RRRAAGGGEEE

>> No.1253528
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1253528

>>1253520
>mfw SWEDEN BITCHES

>> No.1253530

>>1253522
AND HIM
SERIOUSLY FUCK YOU ARFY YOU SUCK GOAT DICKS

>> No.1253533

Major Major was the only likable character.

Discuss.

>> No.1253542

Nately and his whore are probably my two favorite characters.

And the entire Nurse Duckett Chapter is full of some of the greatest jokes in the book, especially the bit with the psychologist.

"Do you ever have any good sex dreams?"
"My fish dream is a sex dream."
"No, I mean real sex dreams--the kind where you grab some naked bitch by the neck and pinch her and punch her in the face until she's all bloody and then throw yourself down to ravish her and burst into tears because you love her and hate her so much you don't know what else to do. That's the kind of sex dreams I like to talk about. Don't you ever have sex dreams like that?"
Yossarian reflected a moment with a wise look. "That's a fist dream," he decided.

Basically, I consider Heller to be one of the masters of artful, uproariously funny dialogue, and he is the one I try to channel the most when writing dialogues of my own.

>> No.1253547

>>1253530
The scenes in the plane with Arfy never being able to hear made me get that feeling of nightmarish claustrophobia and helplessness. Fuck Arfy. AND THEN THE FUCKING RAPE AND MURDER THAT HE GETS AWAY WITH. I raged.

>> No.1253546

>>1253533
>Yossarian, Chaplain, Orr, Dunbar, McWatt
>not likable

>> No.1253550

Oh god, I shed man tears at the end of McWatt's final chapter.

>> No.1253551

Milo - God's own Troll.

>> No.1253552

>>1253533
"Too much of a pussy do do anything" is not a likeable characteristic in my book.

>> No.1253561

Catch-22 was tedious and repetitive. It was the same gag over and over and over, with war satire liberally sprinkled in.

Bored me to fucking tears all the way thorough.

>> No.1253565

>>1253550
The scene when Yossarian runs after the plane trying to convince him not to crash it-tearjerker at it's best
also when Dunbar just disappears, Yossarians waits for Orr to return, GUTS OUT OF NOWHERE and ALL MY FRIENDS ARE GONE parts

>> No.1253566

>>1253561
reported for breaking the rules of life.

>> No.1253568

>>1253552

An IBM machine fucked him over. He never asked to call the shots, man.

>>1253546

>Yossarian
>Likable

I can see where you're coming from with the others, but Yossarian just seems like a douchebag to me.

I hated the book anyway, so i probably shouldn't even be talking.

>> No.1253571

>>1253568
>Yossarian a douchebag
>disliked the book
read it again in a few years when and you might get it.

>> No.1253578

>>1253533
Orr was awesome too. I also like Milo.
Yossarian was a pretty okay guy too.

>> No.1253577

>>1253488
I'm guessing it supposed to make no sense, like Nately's whore popping up FUCKING EVERYWHERE

>> No.1253580

>>1253571

Too deep for me, I guess.

Could someone at least give me a little summary of why /lit/ loves this so fucking much?

You fuckers are almost making me want to try to reread it. Again.

>> No.1253582

there was no catch 22 before, Heller just picked the number 22 at random

>> No.1253583

>>1253577
I seriously thought for the last few chapters that Yossarian had simply gone batshit insane because of this. I was only convinced he wasn't when he actually got stabbed and sent to the hospital.

>> No.1253594

>>1253583
I thought he just imagined half the regiment at times, especially during my dream your dream scenes at the hospital.

>> No.1253595

>>1253580
do yourself a favour and read it again

>> No.1253601

>>1253583
NAZI PIRATE ASSASSIN NINJA ATTACK!

>> No.1253610

>>1253595

You guys are fucking lucky I'm so easily persuadable.

Hey, even if I don't like, I can still spite /lit/ by saying I still hate it after a reread.

>> No.1253615

The ending was surprisingly positive, I expected him to die/is revealed to be a mentally ill patient from the hospital ward in the first chapter/gets his hopes crushed by bureaucracy

>> No.1253617

You're saying discussion, so i guess i'll just say i quit the book halfway through.

And yeah, feel free to go "you didn't get it" or say that i don't have humour, i kinda expect it.

Serious question though: why is it so good? What makes it unique?

>> No.1253621

>>1253610
OH MY GAWD THANKS DUDE, YOU'RE DOING US SUCH A FUCKING FAVOUR DOING THAT
and when I say us I mean YOURFUCKINGSELF, GET TO IT FUCKFACE

TURRETS, IT'S FUCKING GREAT

>> No.1253622

>>1253617

Come on /lit/, give us an answer.

>> No.1253633

>>1253622
How about you first read a book that focuses largely on morbid repetition of scenes that make more and more horrific sense every time they re-appear ALL THE WAY THROUGH?

>> No.1253636

>>1253617


Samefag here, just a list of what i didn't like:

>Characters are exaggerated.
>Plot doesn't really exist (not as far as i can recall, but then again, i quit earlier than halfway through the book.
>Jokes are not funny.
>The whole book is a series of jokes.

Explain to me why i'm wrong.

>> No.1253642

>>1253636
>didn't find the jokes funny
>plebeian

>> No.1253644

>>1253636
I seriously cannot think of any response better suited to sum up my feelings about your opinion of the book than:
2 DEEP 4 U

you better be under 16

>> No.1253646

>>1253636
GTFO of my /lit/, I know this board has no age limit, but you are still underage for it.

>> No.1253647

This book is full of great humor, but some of the later chapters are really quite dark. The Eternal City and Snowden's chapter both made me shudder.

The book's humor becomes only a thin layer of veneer at the end. Peel it off and you have some really horrifying parts.

>> No.1253649

>>1253636
i agree

>> No.1253650

>>1253642
>>1253644

Here we go, /b/tards in their element, doing what they do best.
I asked you to give me serious answers about what was good about the book and instead you attack me personally. That don't really affect me - in fact, it just proves that people who appreciate this book are a bit simple minded; hence the not-so-witty replies.

>> No.1253651

>>1253646
>>1253644
>>1253642

No seriously, why is he wrong.

I know, I'm uncultured swine. All I want is some constructive feedback, fro Christ's sake.

>> No.1253653

>>1253649
You don't capitalize your I's so you can't really count.

>> No.1253654

best characters are Dunbar and Orr

>> No.1253658

>>1253647

Ok, so you like the humour. But does it affect you in any more profound way than give you a laugh? And is the transition from the humorous parts to the darker a good one that doesn't feel weird?

Thank you for a serious reply.

>> No.1253655

>>1253636

I, as well, agree.

NOW EXPLAIN.

>> No.1253656

>>1253653
ive read more than you

>> No.1253660

>>1253636

>thatsthepoint.jpg
>thatsthefuckingpoint.jpg
>yes they are
>no it's not

>> No.1253664

>>1253636

It's a certain sense of humor. The plot is threadbare until halfway through, so if you can't get by on the jokes, it's probably not worth reading. It's one of my favorite books, but I thought the the jokes were hilarious, so there you have that.

>> No.1253665

>>1253660
this, you missed the book by so much I can't even begin to explain it

>> No.1253666

>>1253658

Hell, I LIKED the humor. To start off with, at least. Clevinger's trial was awesome.

But the whole joke of 'bureaucracy sucks' just gets repeated over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

>> No.1253674

>>1253660

So basically, what you're saying is that you like it cause it suits you.

I don't know why, but the more i stay in this thread the more it seems that this book is for pseudo-intellectuals. Nothing wrong with that ofcourse, but it is a thing worth noting.

>> No.1253679

>>1253666
This book was in no way about jokes mate, they only served as a additional oil on the nightmare fuel of the whole, to add absurdity.
If you though you were reading humour, then read it again.

>> No.1253680

>>1253666
Not me.
>>1253658
As I previously stated, the humor sticks with the story to the end, although as I previously said, it becomes really really thin. There is no transition from light, funny reading, to dark and dismal.

I think everyone focuses too much on the 'lol bureaucracy sucks' and not enough on the other main points of the book, like 'Snowden's secret' and the Chaplain's revelation about perseverance. The bureaucracy of Catch-22 is more like a character, not a theme.

>> No.1253683

>>1253664


Thank you for a serious answer. I specially appreciate the "don't read it if you don't like the jokes"-part. You sir, are worthy of +1 internet.

Leaving this thread now, before all the "YOU DDIDNT GET IT LOL" idiots spam this thread to shit.

>> No.1253688

>>1253679

This helps me a great deal in convincing me to reread it. Thanks.

>> No.1253693

>>1253683
HNGGH THE BOOK WAS NOT ABOUT THE JOKES YOU FU-oh why do I even bother

>> No.1253695

>>1253680
>>1253647
Me here.

>>1253679
This, one-thousand times over. The humor sugarcoats the main messages of the book.

>> No.1253701
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1253701

Something Happened is far better, it's easily Heller's best book. It's a shame it doesn't get the same recognition as Catch 22.

>> No.1253704

>>1253683
you know why we spam YOU DON'T GET IT LOL?
BECAUSE YOU DON'T
You missed the book BY A MILE and judging form >>1253636 that's about as close as you'll ever get to it.

>> No.1253714

>>1253680

Anything that can help me get past the bureaucracy sucks theme is a good thing.

Really, around page 400, I just gave up. The part about the camp pretending that Doc Deneeka doesn't exist just made me think "That's just fucking stupid,". When the Chaplain being interrogated for absolutely no reason, I finally just said "Fuck it."

>> No.1253719

>>1253714
how old were you when you thought that?
because maybe you should just stop right there and read something else.

>> No.1253722

>>1253719

Fuck it. I'll just reread the damn thing and report back in a later thread.

Signing the fuck out.

>> No.1253732

Sweet Jesus, when did this turn into convincing some random idiot that we don't really care if he feels convinced to reread a book thread?

Anyone got anything to discuss about the book they finished?

>> No.1253740

>>1253732
How did Milo make any money before everybody started paying him to bomb people I wonder.

>> No.1253743

>>1253740
stole from the syndicate like a man possessed.

>> No.1253745
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1253745

>>1253520
>mfw Orr was not really dead, and was a genius

>> No.1253747
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1253747

>>1253740
>mfw people now give chocolate covered cotton balls to people as a prank

>> No.1253754

>>1253747
>Fry's face when he receives balls

>> No.1253757

>>1253745
I actually figured this out a little earlier and was screaming at Yossarian HE'S TELLING YOU TO FLY WITH HIM BECAUSE HE WANTS YOU TO ESCAPE, HE'S DROPPING HINTS LIKE A MADMAN inside my head

>> No.1253770
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1253770

>>1253754
>Laurie's face when Fry receives his balls

>> No.1253773

>>1253551
Milo deserves an Orange Lantern Ring just for somehow managing to buy eggs from HIMSELF at a profit.

>> No.1253786

McWatt crashing his plane after killing Sampson made him one of my favourite characters as well as making me sad he did it at the same time.

>> No.1253791

I have a sinking feeling I would be Colonel Korn in a situation like that.

>> No.1253799

>>1253791
so would everyone else on /lit/

>> No.1253811

>>1253514
this so much
Especially in the episode Blackadder pretends to be mad to get out of war and in the BAW-tastic finale

>> No.1253892

A truly great book.
The first one that made me stare at the wall for an hour after reading it.

>> No.1253896

"I think it's only fair to warn you of that before I ask my next question. Doesn't the word Anabaptist simply mean that you're not a Baptist? ..."

>> No.1253956

This thread is reminding me to reread it; there's so much you guys are referencing that I don't remember quite as well as I feel I should. And it's my favorite book.

>> No.1254899

Has anyone here read through Closing Time? It's supposed to be somewhat of a sequel to Catch 22 revolving around the same characters but after some 60% of the book I just can't go on, it's that boring.

>> No.1254901

Does anyone feel Catch-22 could equally suit being set in the American political system?

Politicians kept in check by other departments, constant bargaining and buying of other people leading to inaction and indirect dealings.

>> No.1254908

>>1254901
It describes well any system where idiots mix with bureaucracy.

>> No.1254910

>>1254901
no

>> No.1254911

>>1253479

Catch-22 was funny.

Then it became slightly grim and dark. Snowden comes to mind here. Then it was alternatively grim and funny. I enjoyed it immensely, but I also felt that Heller was preaching about war being a non-stop, horrifying shitshow where everything is terrible. Not that I cared because I received a heavy dose of that from Remarque's All Quiet on The Western Front, which more or less portrays the battlefield as a place where shit happens 24/7 and nothing good happens ever.

They're perfect counterpoints to novels like Starship Troopers, which lionized the military, and the countless Vietnam War novels that portray the jungles as a rad place where you take drugs and shoot VC.

>> No.1254943

>>1254899
I read it, enjoyed it, but not as much as Catch-22. It seems very personal to me, has a lot of in-jokes between him and other writers, and spends a lot of time explaining what are undoubtedly Heller's beliefs. I'm glad he wrote the book, I'm sure it was very therapeutic and for some people extremely interesting. However, I don't think Catch-22 needed a sequel, "proper" or otherwise.