/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12531553]

Can mindfulness be harmful?

[Anonymous No.12531558]

>>12531553
if your mind is full of terrible shit that you become aware of then i suppose yeah

[Anonymous No.12531562]

sure, look at osho and the entire hippie generation

[Anonymous No.12531564]

>>12531553
only if you're a weak cunt

[Anonymous No.12531567]

>>12531553
Mindfulness is basically the philosophy of being an NPC.

[Anonymous No.12531575]

>>12531553
Kek. Women are a meme

[Anonymous No.12531579]

>>12531553
>Bad thoughts bad

[Anonymous No.12531585]

Besides the fact that she's a woman and therefore obviously weak and frail, there is some truth to the fact that mindfullness can be harmful, and the Buddha himself even warned of this. During meditation, we can encounter zones of extreme negative emotions, such as anxiety, depression, despair, anger, etc., which threaten to consume the practitioner. The state of silence that is reached during mindfullness allows one ot gaze into the soul as if one were to gaze into a mirror; if your soul is in turmoil or severely out of balance (which is very likely in western women), then looking at it can be downright terrifying. Yet during this 'long night' of meditations, these emotions must at first be confronted (not shunned) and ultimately overcome and transcended. If not, then they will just fester and manifest in other ways. Of course the average roastie whore will find this horrible, since she has avoided all negative emotions all her life, either by blaming others for them or by convincing her female mind that these negative emotions are actually justified.

[Anonymous No.12531587]

>>12531567
>Mindfulness is basically the philosophy of being an NPC.
This sounds like a regurgitated opinion. Elaborate upon your point and provide examples why you think this is true.

[Anonymous No.12531598]

>>12531585
/thread

[Anonymous No.12531608]

I used to meditate and became obsessed. I thought I had cured my depression and anxiety. Too bad my obsession was just another manifestation of my mental illness and didn't last.

[Anonymous No.12531621]

>tfw know meditation and exercise would help a lot of my problems
>chose to maintain an opiate habit instead
I'm literally too high to ever get any of the benefits of meditation

[Anonymous No.12531630]

>>12531585
>will find this horrible, since she has avoided all negative emotions all her life, either by blaming others for them or by convincing her female mind that these negative emotions are actually justified.
Literally me except not female

[Anonymous No.12531632]

>>12531621
I used to love to meditate on opiates desu. Then again, my doses were pretty moderate.

[Anonymous No.12531636]

>>12531630
we're all female now, it's the futureTM

[Anonymous No.12531644]

>>12531575
I truly believe that, not only should women be given as little freedom as possible, they should be given as little freedom of thought as possible. You allow them to think and behave outside the parameters set by their husbands or fathers, that's where you get female anxiety and eating disorders.

[Anonymous No.12531649]

Nice literature thread

[Anonymous No.12531653]

>>12531632
I wouldn't really call kratom much of an opiate but I always felt like you dont get the "full benefit" of meditation if you're high on anything

[Anonymous No.12531672]

>>12531553
>I'm going to start meditating so that I become more aware of my emotions and my body.
>Wow, I actually feel really disgusted with myself both physically and mentally.
>Better stop introspection.

Holy shit, she was so close to improving her life.

[Anonymous No.12531682]

>>12531585
Sexist and misogynistic and problematic and not at all ok.

[Anonymous No.12531689]

>>12531682
The Buddha himself said that the eternal roastie would pollute his teachings, as they are incapable of fully grasping them. He was right.

[Anonymous No.12531720]

Meditating is supposed to be kind of dangerous. It's ironic that this woman who thinks it was making her sicker was actually probably better at it than most westerners are.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/18/book-review-mastering-the-core-teachings-of-the-buddha/
https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/04/19/gupta-on-enlightenment/

[Anonymous No.12531742]

>>12531720
>Meditating is supposed to be kind of dangerous
Wtf nobody ever told me this even IRL

[Anonymous No.12531753]

>>12531742
You're confronting the darkest parts of your soul, anon. Of course it's dangerous. And your soul will be especially tainted if you're an anime-poster.

[Anonymous No.12531765]

>>12531753
I know I have a shitty soul but i'm not an animeposter I just collect reaction images

[Anonymous No.12531766]

>>12531653
>I wouldn't really call kratom much of an opiate
It's technically stronger than morphine, its just that our enzymes break it down much quicker. If you get potent kratom you can and will nod.

[Anonymous No.12531768]

>>12531689
Source?

[Anonymous No.12531771]

>>12531742
It's because everything in the West is watered down. We water down even our own traditions. It's shitty, but it's the way we are. Read the articles I linked, the author is a psychiatrist and generally kind of skeptical and he comes to the conclusion that there's something to this whole meditation thing but also that it can severely fuck with your relationship to the world if you get too good at it and aren't able to handle it.

If you're just listening to a guided meditation "now feel your toes now feels your fingers breath in breath out" sort of thing for five minutes a day, you probably aren't going to open up your pineal gland or anything, but it's actually a really deep spiritual tradition and it's a deep spiritual tradition for a reason. It can fuck you up.

[Anonymous No.12531777]

>>12531765
>>12531753
Nobody is born with a soul though. So your probably encountering all of these thoughts your ego-consciousness produces to distract you from this fact. Even Jung states you must search for your soul, fuck he wrote a book about it. The underlying pain you feel is the process of acquiring the soul. You gotta be aware of all this bull shit so you can finally empty your head and produce your own thoughts.

[Anonymous No.12531781]

>>12531777
>777
The most divine number, truth has been spoken.

[Anonymous No.12531795]

>>12531553
What a cute sweetie I would love to cuddle her and tell her it's all gonna be okay

[Anonymous No.12531803]

>>12531768
https://www.thoughtco.com/maha-pajapati-and-the-first-nuns-449897

Basically when the first nuns wanted to become buddhist, the buddha initially refused. After some pushing he relented, but he predicted that his teachings would now only last 500 years instead of 1000. The primary scripture that contains this prediction is the Samyutta Nikaya.

[Anonymous No.12531840]

>>12531766
>It's technically stronger than morphine

[Anonymous No.12531844]

>>12531840
13-fold more potent than morphine
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5601368/

[Anonymous No.12531852]

>>12531844
I only started using it after a months-long morphine binge so this all makes sense. No wonder I can still get dopesick without kratom

[Anonymous No.12531897]

>>12531567
Nice NPC meme

[Anonymous No.12531977]

>>12531777
What book by Kung are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.12531998]

If you are possessed by demons then all you are doing by being mentally silent is giving the demon a stage to speak. Instead repeat a prayer over and over again in your mind.

[Anonymous No.12532007]

>>12531579
Imagine being this upset a man take a one morning out of his whole week to do whatever he desires. LOL

[Anonymous No.12532233]

>>12531977
Modern man is search of a soul. Also read the undiscovered self.

[Anonymous No.12532679]

>>12532007
DUDE WEED LMAO! LOL! THIS IS HOW WE TALK ON 4CHANNEL! XD!
>muh sekret club
Beat you to it. Back to >>>/r/eddit.

[Anonymous No.12532693]

i always felt like mindfulness encourages self-consciousness and neuroticism, not to mention the general negative buddhist outlook that "everyone is suffering" etc. thank god people are waking up to how shitty "mindfulness" is, do you really think constantly thinking about your breathing and every step you take is a good idea? there's a reason we evolved to not have to waste mind power on breathing and walking

[Anonymous No.12532706]

>>12531579
I'm disgusted by this but really I'm no better. The reason 4chan types ridicule this is often, I believe, because they see themselves. If this dude were drinking a G&T and watching the Barchester Chronicles no one would bat a fucking eye

[Anonymous No.12532715]

>WTF i'm FAT???? :((((

[Anonymous No.12532747]

>>12531553
>is actually introspective enough one time in her life to confront her neuroses
>thinks it's a bad thing

[Anonymous No.12533563]

>>12531579
>Relaxing is bad
bold take

[Anonymous No.12533571]

>>12533563
but bro how can u enjoy life knowing jeff bezos has a lot of money? doesnt that just make u seeeeth with rage? make you want to ... rage against the machine? the capitalist machine? ohhh boy im so fucking mad right now, i just can't enjoy life knowing some guy somewhere is rich

[Anonymous No.12533640]

>>12531585
I've had lots of therapists talk about mindfulness but nobody has ever actually got to this point. why are professionals less proficient that fucking virgin whiteboys on armenian plowing forum?

[Anonymous No.12533646]

>>12531771
It isn't watered down, It's entirely a invented tradition, a super vast majority of Buddhists monks throughout history never meditated, the concept of lay people meditating didn't exist until the 50's and modern meditation techniques aren't found anywhere within the canon.

[Anonymous No.12533652]

>>12532706
No one would bat an eye if he wasn’t an obnoxious manchild.

[Anonymous No.12533673]

i am not at all a well-practiced meditator, but a few weeks ago i was feeling a little anxious in a public space, so i sat myself off from everyone and just tried to focus on my breathing. i got pretty deep into it, in a way that i never had before. just me and the breath. then something very strange happened. there was a sensation, like the earth was falling out from underneath me, dissolving into nothing. and i felt myself slipping backward into this void. it jolted me, and i 'came to', flailing my arms, with my heart just pounding uncontrollably in my chest.
this was not some hypnagogic response. or, if it was, it was very unusual. at no point did i feel like i was falling asleep. i was, rather, falling into a void space. and i got scared. so i backed off.
i haven't meditated since. but i would like to.

[Anonymous No.12533698]

>>12531553
Yes all meditation is harmful since It invites demons in your life.

[Anonymous No.12533699]

>>12533673
>this was not some hypnagogic response. or, if it was, it was very unusual
the feeling of falling or floating is pretty common in people who try the WILD method of lucid dreaming, I've experienced it many times myself

[Anonymous No.12533750]

>>12533640
Because they just use mindfullness for it's calming effect, while mindfullness is actually the first step towards deeper meditation.

[Anonymous No.12533836]

>>12531585
based buddhist

[Anonymous No.12533849]

>>12533673
Is there some instructional guide to meditation?

[Anonymous No.12533851]

>>12533640
Even nearly educated therapists are utilizing knowledge and practices four or five decades out of date, mindfulness included, and for a field very reluctant to accept research that invalidates previously held opinions It's a dangerous combination.

[Anonymous No.12533856]

>>12533851
>nearly
Newly.

[Anonymous No.12533862]

>>12531553
weak minded thots like that don't deserve based Buddhist wisdom

[Anonymous No.12533911]

Why does she think healing is easy? Medicine is alway bitter. My guess she wants to escape her own problems, not confront them.
When you look within yourself, you will find your personal demons and angels.

[Anonymous No.12534004]

>>12531567
Mr. Pie would disagree with you, it is the opposite.

[Anonymous No.12534008]

>>12532007
>whatever he desires
is trash, the issue is that he desires it to begin with. If he were a better man he would have genuinely individual desires.

[Anonymous No.12534015]

>>12531553
>>12531585
You could consult any tradition that has meditation and find these answers. Why these muh mindfulness retards don't know this, is beyond me. The whole point is to work through it. Why is their conception on the level of initial establishment of practice?

[Anonymous No.12534020]

>>12533571
SOME OF THOSE THAT WORK FORCES

[Anonymous No.12534061]

>>12532693
Actually it allows you to control/negate neuroticism and it doesn't train self-consciousness as that would imply it is strictly preoccupied with something and that it reinforces emotional complexes. You can think of it as taking in the senses as they are rather than as blocks of concepts (with all that is attached, such as emotions), which is why it helps in dealing with pain and improving emotional regulation, among many other things, as you are not helplessly tied up in the arbitrary mechanics of unmindful abstractions. It has helped reduce my anxiety, impulsive anger, and self-consciousness. Even this praise is nothing to the true depth meditation can illuminate, as is the topic of the thread, it goes a lot deeper than changing the brain a bit. Building proficiency in mindfulness is babysteps. Although the obsession with the concept is overblown. With that said, I'm a novice and meditation mostly just gives me a state of effortless bliss.

[Anonymous No.12534075]

>>12531771
>>If you're just listening to a guided meditation "now feel your toes now feels your fingers breath in breath out" sort of thing for five minutes a day, you probably aren't going to open up your pineal gland or anything, but it's actually a really deep spiritual tradition and it's a deep spiritual tradition for a reason. It can fuck you up.
You mean for those who have mental trauma due to past experiences?

[Anonymous No.12534080]

>be me
>only child
>single mother
>she has borderline personality disorder
>she refused to let me socialise or get out the house
>grow up an unsocialised, awkward, anxious, depressed man
>happen to be smart, go to a very good university (partially due to having no social life at all during my youth and thus only having vidya and studying
>first time alone
>inevitable breakdown and coping with resentment, isolation, and mental illness as a result of being conned out of all developmental milestones
>contemplate suicide many a time
>life is a living hell, lock myself in room during term for up to three weeks on end to avoid facing others
>reach out to counselling service in 2nd year
>fill out laborious form and wait forever
>finally get a place
>meet counsellor
>doesn't even bother to ask particularly probing questions, just superficially asks what my problems are
>"Well, I try to go out to social events and I can only hang round for 10 minutes before I feel empty and lost and I need to run into a bathroom and cry like a bitch for half an hour and that's me done for the week."
>says that's such a strange pathology
>clearly hasn't read the forms i sent off
>"Well, I recommend mindfulness. You clearly suffer from an inability to live in the moment. We run a group class. Do that, and come back to me in 4 weeks?"

That's what mindfulness is to me. It's that retarded boomer fuck slouched in that chair, ignoring the entire reason I may be dysfunctional and lost, and trying to hand over a ready-made and easy-packaged feelgood(tm) solution to try to untie the byzantine knot of the a psyche.

Mindfulness will always be condescending, disinterested, and lazy tripe thrown your way instead of a genuine attempt at psychological communion. I just wanted to be understood, and he cast me aside. That's what mindfulness is; a lazy way out.

The funny thing is that I'd been practicing - unknowingly - mindfulness for years. It was my mechanism to cope when my mother had a turn and started to terrorise me at home.

I'm better now, at least. No thanks to that hack fuck who wanted to reduce me to a course attendance slip.

[Anonymous No.12534084]

Like others have said, pretty much any contemplative tradition has warnings in place for practicing meditation. I'm always reminded of the Chan meditation manuals that preface instructions by mentioning all the 'demonic states' you can fall into -that's pretty serious langue.
Most meditative practices were never even meant for laymen to begin with, that's another issue.

[Anonymous No.12534360]

>>12531567
Uhhh, it's the opposite though. NPCs never stop to think about their thoughts because they just go through life receiving programming from others.

[Anonymous No.12534376]

>>12531553
this niggas think that mindfulness is just peace and tranquility

>>12531585
>dark night
ftfy
you're totally right

[Anonymous No.12534431]

>>12534080
retarded people think that meditation and mindfulness is a bullet silver for whatever shit youre going through
It's legit though but is not as nice as stupid people shills it

>>12533849
"The Mind Illuminated" is the best one rn

>>12532693
"paying attention to wahtever you're doing" is just training.
goal is to be aware of everything that is happening in your mind without being absorbed by it.
mindfulness could be an evolutionary advantage

[Anonymous No.12534641]

>>12534360
>NPCs never stop to think about their thoughts because they just go through life receiving programming from others.
What if they realize they are inherently subhuman and mentally inferior so they instead learn and take guidance from others?

[Anonymous No.12534687]

>>12531585
You can't be Buddhist unless you love and respect women...pls don't be mean to them like this

[Anonymous No.12534710]

>>12531653
try 3 days of amphetamine fueled meditation and then say that

[Anonymous No.12534720]

>>12534080
>>inevitable breakdown and coping with resentment, isolation, and mental illness as a result of being conned out of all developmental milestones
>>contemplate suicide many a time
>>life is a living hell, lock myself in room during term for up to three weeks on end to avoid facing others

That's me right now. How do you actually get out of it?
I feel so ashamed of myself that being around others is legit torturous.
Can barely talk to other people and haven't made a single friend or acquaintance even though I'm 3rd year uni.

Will these feelings of inferiority stop eventually? I can't see myself functioning with this in the background constantly.

[Anonymous No.12534732]

>>12534720
Guy you replied to here.

I know this is going to sound strange, but I tried everything (bullshit therapy, antidepressants, etc) and only one thing saved me. It was originally a crapshoot.

I had my T tested. Turned out I suffered from hypogonadism (although my NHS GP tried to tell me otherwise). I managed to get myself on TRT and my life has done a 180 in the 6 months since I began; at least in regards to my mindset.

So try that. Get your serum AND free testosterone checked. Don't take your doctor's word for it - check the results yourself and read up around it.

See where you stand. I wouldn't be surprised if teenage abuse/trauma was linked to testosterone deficiency, given how the HPTA works.

I know, it sounds like bro-science. But it was my last shot, and it seemed to have worked.

[Anonymous No.12534763]

>>12534720
>>12534732
This is a good post. My life got a lot better once I started trying to improve my t levels. Things like getting enough sleep every night and eating healthy make a world of difference.

[Anonymous No.12534809]

>>12534732
Happy for you mate. Glad you found a relatively quick and measurable fix. Can you give us a few lines on how you observed mood/attitude changes and general thoughts on your treatment? Pretty sure it would make for an interesting read.

[Anonymous No.12534876]

>>12534687
see
>>12531803

[Anonymous No.12534886]

>>12534720
go to church, unlike buddhist cool guys, christians won't judge you

[Anonymous No.12534895]

>>12531553
dark night of the soul, weird energy stuff, this exist in every meditation tradition

you were memed by californians believing everything is fun and games

[Anonymous No.12534911]

>>12534886
>christians won't judge you
then why the saying "sweating like a whore in church"?

[Anonymous No.12534917]

How do I start meditating?
And don't get me meme answers

[Anonymous No.12534931]

>>12531585

[Anonymous No.12534939]

>>12534917

How do you think she comes?

[Anonymous No.12534943]

>>12534911
never heard of it, must be a heretic, uh, i mean, protestant thing

[Anonymous No.12534964]

>>12531567
mindfulness is something self aware people do without any prompting and it can’t be taught to genetically anxious spazzoids

[Anonymous No.12534985]

>>12534917
read mindfulness in plain english and then the mind illuminated

or if you want dry vipassana read mastering the teachings of the buddha and then mahasi sayadaw's manual of insight

[Anonymous No.12534991]

>>12534917
Refrain from reading meme books on how to meditate. Pick an object, focus on it. Mind wanders, start focusing on the object again. Repeat indefinitely.

[Anonymous No.12535028]

>>12531558
How does one purge unwanted thoughts? Not in the Tao Lin-CBT way, but in the Marie Kondo-spring cleaning way.

[Anonymous No.12535042]

>>12531636
gender accelerationism

[Anonymous No.12535077]

>>12531777
>your ego-consciousness produces to distract you
you who?

[Anonymous No.12535089]

>>12531585
I believe you, but can you please post a source for eternal BTFO'ing of roasties and therapists?

[Anonymous No.12535216]

>>12534008
>is trash
Opinion.

[Anonymous No.12535218]

YOU'S GOTTA DIE TO LIVE FUCKOS

[Anonymous No.12535234]

>>12531585
This

[Anonymous No.12535252]

>no no no no meditation bad! bad think bad! take these pills instead, only those can help

why do we allow these literal criminals to continue existing?

[Anonymous No.12535253]

>>12531682
The truth hurts, anon.

[Anonymous No.12535263]

>>12535089
source for what? That the buddha considered women to be deficient?

[Anonymous No.12535320]

>>12531621
Jail help me clean up. Best of luck friend..

[Anonymous No.12535447]

>>12531587
t. npc bugman

go drink onions or fap to trannies you idiot you're not gonna achieve naything ever if you just sit around and do tnothing, so take my advice

[Anonymous No.12535499]

>>12535447
hey no all of us tranny fappers are basedbois

[Anonymous No.12535864]

>>12531553
>self improvement is not pleasurable therefore I shouldn't be expected to take part in it
Mindfulness can be harmful but because of the reasons this dumb bint gives.

[Anonymous No.12535883]

>>12535447
If you're going to call other people "NPCs", the least you could do is not act like an NPC when asked why.

[Anonymous No.12535959]

>>12535864
not pleasurable =/= traumatic

[Anonymous No.12536000]

>>12531803
What you fail to realise is that this doesn't have to do with the women themselves being ordained, but the fact that generally society is more hostile to female development than male development, and so by allowing nuns to undertake the vows he'd be opening up his religious community to being more vulnerable from attacks by reactionaries / paternalists / etc. He himself said that women were every bit as capable of enlightenment as men were, as even your article says.

His concern was a pragmatic social one, not an innate metaphysical one.

[Anonymous No.12536016]

>>12532747
It wasn't that she didn't want to face her neuroses, it's that she was taught how to do "mindfulness" by basic bitch Westerners who have no true understanding of the psychological and metaphysical implications of the things they're teaching.

Like other anons have pointed out, mindfulness is a way to shine light upon the psyche, and if, like most modern Westeners, your psyche is full of toxins and dark spirits, then going in unprepared can be quite traumatic.

If anything, I imagine that her experiences proves she actually has a lot of potential to develop spiritually, since very few people end up as open to their psyches as she apparently did after just a single session.

She needs a guide.

[Anonymous No.12536087]

>>12531682
Lmfao problematic go choke on a onions bean

[Anonymous No.12536129]

>>12534939

?

[Anonymous No.12536132]

>>12531553
>being conscious of the absurdity of society is harmful for your mental health
no shit

[Anonymous No.12536145]

>>12535089
I hope you know how pathetic this makes you look

[Anonymous No.12536204]

>>12534939
round the mountain
duh

[Anonymous No.12536239]

>>12535077
The machinations of consciousness repeating them selves ad infinitum to make up what we call the individual. The suppressed un-conscious awareness of this is ego-consciousness, which attempts to "protect" the psyche.

[Anonymous No.12536240]

>>12531553
>>12531553
What you anons have siad in this thread heavily intrigues me, what books should I read to get up to date with this topic.

tincredibly heavily interested man with a lot of problems in his life
thank you in advance

[Anonymous No.12536269]

>>12536240
What do you want to know, specifically? What are you hoping to achieve?

[Anonymous No.12536388]

>>12536240
Daniel Ingram's MCTB goes on about 'Dark Night' which it's about realizing unsatisfactoryness of reality, not going through internal conflicts that usually come earlier in meditation
John Yates in TMI gives instructions how to deal with past traumas and internal conflict that come out in stages 4 and 7 of his more Samatha focused system of meditation. In his retreats he also mentioned that practicing Samatha first and acquiring joy and equanimity that comes with it, and having some insight into no-self first makes 'Dark Night' a non-issue, for example here on page 5: https://dharmatreasure.org/wp-content/uploads/Meditation-and-Insight-III.pdf
See this topic where authors of MCTB (Daniel M. Ingram) and 'The Mind Illuminated' (John Yates Culadasa) get into a little heated discussion about the article: https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/view_message/10419819#_19_message_10473781

[Anonymous No.12536422]

>>12536269
I honestly don't knwo I have no idea where to start , all I know is that I have to give this a try before I can form an opinion on it.

[Anonymous No.12536435]

>>12535216
Fact.

[Anonymous No.12536442]

>>12536145
For what? That meditation can be destructive when you don't have the proper mindset, and therapists and New Agers are full of shit?

[Anonymous No.12536457]

>>12531585
pretty based post tbqhwy

[Anonymous No.12536506]

>>12531682
Except it is ok.

[Anonymous No.12537267]

>>12531803
We don't actually know if this is true or not. Afaik, most of the Buddha's teachings and stories were unwritten for centuries. There's even a passage in early texts where he (paraphrased) claims it doesn't really matter who tries to reach for enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.12537274]

>>12532693
This. My pastor told me that buddhism, hinduism etc is interesting but ultimately it all leads to hell.

[Anonymous No.12537304]

>>12537274
This. My osho told me that Christianity, Judaism etc is interesting but ultimately it all leads to naraka.

[Anonymous No.12537321]

>>12531585
Thank you, Mr. Jung. In all seriousness, this is a really good point. Well thought out.

[Anonymous No.12537335]

>>12535447
Not an argument. Keep posting regurgitated opinions.

[Anonymous No.12537355]

>>12534015
>Why is their conception on the level of initial establishment of practice?
Because "mindfulness" has been advocated as a sort of lame, 15-minute-cardio workout for your mind, rather than the gruelling 30 mile hike it actually is in order to get the best results.

Really, the mindfulness movement in the West would be akin an undeveloped nation coming across advanced astrophysics, and then using it solely as a way to make their push-bikes go slightly faster. It's a joke.

[Anonymous No.12537424]

Mindfulness is a total meme. "Enlightenment" meme is a marketing tactic for monasteries to gather and trap people into sitting in bumfuck nowhere for no reason.

[Anonymous No.12537438]

>>12537355
yup, this guy's right

24/7 mindfulness is one of the hardest things you can possibly do

[Anonymous No.12537445]

>>12537424
>he fell for the productivity meme

[Anonymous No.12537446]

>>12537424
What do monasteries gain from that?

[Anonymous No.12537448]

Someone answer this please >>12535028

[Anonymous No.12537451]

>>12531553
People with anxiety don't do well with meditation. They're more suited to exercise and hobbies.

[Anonymous No.12537465]

>>12537448
disengagement is purgation

the more you have a concept of them as unwanted, the more that aversion reifies them

[Anonymous No.12537473]

>>12531777
>>12531720
You seem really knowledgeable about all of this. Post a reading guide please.

[Anonymous No.12537474]

>>12537451
I don’t know much about meditation but when I do it I try to ignore my thoughts and focus on my breath and it seems to curb my anxiety

Am I doing it wrong

[Anonymous No.12537485]

>>12531585
You poison the well of the Buddha's thought with your thoughtless language.

[Anonymous No.12537885]

>>12537445
>posting on 4channel.org
>>12537446
labor, money, and status.

[Anonymous No.12537907]

>>12531553
> mindfulness doesn't work for a psychotic schizo bitch with an anxiety disorder

huh kinda weird

[Anonymous No.12537925]

>>12535320
what’d you do?

[Anonymous No.12537993]

>>12531553
Over a decade ago I was clinically depressed, picked up mindfulness, did it all the time, one day while meditating thought I hit enlightenment, felt like waking up from reality as God, started to hear voices telling me that I was God, whole of reality started to break down, personal messages everywhere, everything was connected to me and put there for me to encounter at this very moment, I indeed became God. Later I also had to start Armageddon by setting a fire in my flat with flatmates still asleep in there. And that's why you don't do mindfulness if genetically vulnerable to psychosis.

[Anonymous No.12538025]

>>12537465
+1

When you think them just be aware that you are thinking them. Sometimes it helps to name them "I am thinking about x" or simply "thinking".

[Anonymous No.12538031]

>>12537993
>goy if you look into your own mind you will try to burn down your apartment, don't you dare try introspection

[Anonymous No.12538042]

>>12538031
Full blown psychosis is a bit more than looking into your mind. Not sure why mindfulness can trigger psychosis, but it's the reason mindfulness meditation retreats and classes don't allow people with psychotic history into them.

[Anonymous No.12538059]

is 'mindfulness therapy' the npc method of not caring about shit?

[Anonymous No.12538062]

>>12538042
I'll tell you why, because the modern world (save for a few lucky places) has become a place of spiritual exile, and to those naturally spiritually attuned (mystics, schizophrenics, etc.), starting any sort of spiritual practice can open up their minds to the latent negative spiritual energy that comes from living in such a lost realm.

[Anonymous No.12538096]

>>12531553
Yes because it breaks down the ego, which is something most people want to maintain.

[Anonymous No.12538714]

>>12531579
Honestly the most egregious thing is watching television on a fucking tablet.

[Anonymous No.12538876]

>>12537485
I use course language to spread the word of Damma. Zen buddhists have used it for centuries.

[Anonymous No.12538889]

>>12531579
Kill yourself you pretentious aspie fuck
who cares what a man does on his downtime

You probably spend more time on /lit/ than actually reading. I hope you fucking die. I hope somebody slaps you when your skin is cold. Faggot

[Anonymous No.12538900]

>>12538062
t. schizo who fell for 'in old times people knew more' meme
Don't meditate. You'll make yourself and others miserable

[Anonymous No.12538938]

>>12536000
>He himself said that women were every bit as capable of enlightenment as men were, as even your article says.
didn't he write women were insatiable about sex and childbearing in this life?

[Anonymous No.12538939]

I've done some reading on this, and it's not bullshit. There was a story that emerged not long ago when a young woman in America attended a retreat done in the style of S. N. Goenka (short, free courses for newcomers in rural locations), had to leave the course early, and committed suicide some few days later for the changes it brought on. It's due to this they now have a bunch of disclaimers on their site, and there's even a small house in the U.S. where about 30 people live together and work to overcome the issues brought on by the experience. The good news is that once you get beyond this, you start to uncover some serious truths about yourself and the world, and according to practitioners there's basically no way to go back (in a good way).

I should get back to meditation I guess, but for some reason when I practice now, I feel nothing during sits. It used to be there were strange and curious sensations all over my body, and my form would seem to lock up in this interesting shape, but now I'm simply sitting and nothing happens. Oh well.

>>12536240
The Mind Illuminated is what you want. Theravada Buddhism is actually the polar opposite of the stereotypical Eastern religion: That is, it's very direct, it's predicated in experiential knowledge rather than faith, the universe and karmic systems are laid out in almost scientific rigor, and your progress may be gauged with some accuracy. This is the prevailing form of Buddhism in the West (actual Buddhism, not 'spirituality'), and if you live in America especially there are world-renowned places you can study at for some months and find out if this is for you.
>>12536388
What does /lit/ think about Ingram? Of the people preaching mindfulness on the internet, he seemed to be one of the most level-headed, but I was too lazy to really go and make sure he's sane.
>>12538876
*coarse, fyi

[Anonymous No.12538940]

>>12536239
i don't get it

[Anonymous No.12538952]

>>12537304
>>12537274
>>12532693
this guy told me that while there's some truth in christianity, the god of the old testament is obviously a demon. who's memeing who?

[Anonymous No.12538958]

>>12537424
imagine being this spooked by pseudo-activity

[Anonymous No.12538959]

>>12537885
how do they gain money from me sitting?

[Anonymous No.12538961]

>>12537885
>>12538959
psychic vampires

[Anonymous No.12538966]

>>12538876
Zen buddhists were trying to make a point in an overly ritualistic world. I don't think "over-ritualization" is precisely a problem in the current world anymore

[Anonymous No.12538972]

>>12538939
>What does /lit/ think about Ingram? Of the people preaching mindfulness on the internet, he seemed to be one of the most level-headed, but I was too lazy to really go and make sure he's sane.
i think he is good, but he is too autistic about making everything fit the stages of insight, he had an interview with "bloggerheads" on youtube and was trying to convince the guy he had experienced the "arising and passing away" or something like that, but it didn't sound very convincing to me

then again i haven't experienced any of the stages of insight, so i can't really comment on it

[Anonymous No.12538977]

>>12531553
It doesn't work for THOTs.

[Anonymous No.12538982]

>>12538889
Kill yourself you pretentious aspie fuck
who cares what a man does on his downtime
You probably spend more time on /co/ than actually reading. I hope you fucking die. I hope somebody slaps you when your skin is cold. Faggot

[Anonymous No.12538999]

>>12538972
That's understandable. I like /lit/ to talk about Buddhism because people here are relatively skeptical and you don't get much of the "Well something changed in me and I'm pretty much enlightened lol" types. By far that is the worst thing with stream entry online. Of course, you also get those cases where some guy is making rapid progress and the whole thing seems too good to be true, but it's not really improbable either and you're too inexperienced to judge it so it remains this confused sidenote in your memory.

It can be so disorienting that you'll undoubtedly question whether the whole thing has any true substance to it at all. Right now though, I'm almost certain it does.

[Anonymous No.12539022]

>>12531585
the women hating was unnecessary

otherwise good post

[Anonymous No.12539041]

>>12534061
good post

[Anonymous No.12539050]

>>12531553
>For the first time ever, I felt the need to purge.
Oh no!

[Anonymous No.12539063]

>>12534641
>>12534360

[Anonymous No.12539064]

>>12539022
it's absolutely necessary

[Anonymous No.12539065]

>>12531585
I didn't read any of this because

>caring what B*ddhe said

[Anonymous No.12539119]

>>12536388>>12538939>>12534080
>>12531771


>MCTB (Daniel M. Ingram)
MCTB (Daniel M. Ingram) is a hack who rehashes Mahasi. Mahasi is a hack who rehashes abhidhamma, Visuddhimagga.

here is what sati and Sampajañña are
>"And how, bhikkhus, is a bhikkhu mindful?

>Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu dwells contemplating the body in the body ... feelings in feelings ... mind in mind ... phenomena in phenomena, ardent, clearly comprehending, mindful, having removed covetousness and displeasure in regard to the world.

>It is in this way, bhikkhus, that a bhikkhu is mindful.

>"And how, bhikkhus, does a bhikkhu exercise clear comprehension?

>Here, bhikkhus, for a bhikkhu feelings are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away.

>Thoughts are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away.

>Perceptions are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away.


Sati Sampajañña cannot harm you because It makes the mano full of good thoughts and make you avoid bad deeds

>Bhikkhus, heedfulness should be practiced in four instances. Which four? Abandon bodily misconduct and develop bodily good conduct; do not be negligent towards it. Abandon verbal misconduct and develop verbal good conduct; do not be negligent towards it. Abandon mental misconduct and develop mental good conduct; do not be negligent towards it. Abandon wrong view and develop right view; do not be negligent towards it.
>When a bhikkhu's mind does not become avid on account of things that induce avidity because it is rid of avidity, when his mind does not become averse to things that induce aversion because it is rid of aversion, when his mind does not become deluded on account of things that induce delusion because it is rid of delusion, when his mind does not become intoxicated by things that intoxicate, then he is not frightened, he does not tremble, he does not shake, he does not undergo fear, and he does not go because of the words of [other] renunciants.
people who get depressed or who go schizo are people who skip this step (they keep being infatuated with sensuality and they cannot drop cravings)

>Bhikkhus, these five perceptions, if developed and practiced frequently, bear great fruits, great benefits, merge into the deathless and have the deathless as conclusion. Which five? The perception of foulness, the perception of death, the perception of drawbacks, the perception of unattractiveness in food, and the perception of non-delight towards the entire world. These five perceptions, bhikkhus, if developed and practiced frequently, bear great fruits, great benefits, merge into the deathless and have the deathless as conclusion.


TMI is just a textbook for samatha, but then Culadasa says vipassna is what is found in abhidhamma or Visuddhimagga, so he fails too.

[Anonymous No.12539121]

>>12536388
>See this topic where authors of MCTB (Daniel M. Ingram) and 'The Mind Illuminated' (John Yates Culadasa) get into a little heated discussion about the article: https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/view_message/10419819#_19_message_10473781
based, that was a fun read. i have some issues with both authors while being much less accomplished than any of them, but when it comes to detailed instructions i would rely on Yates more than Ingram

[Anonymous No.12539140]

>>12539119
are you sure? i read TMI and Visuddhimagga and the concentration section of the Visuddhimagga sounds quite close to TMI, while i'll concede i didn't really understand very well the last section on insight on the Visuddhimagga i may be missing that, but that read more as a philosophical treatise than as instructions for meditation

you say:
>Mahasi is a hack who rehashes abhidhamma, Visuddhimagga.
but i didn't see anything resembling dry vipassana on Visuddhimagga, Mahasi seems more of an innovation that sticking close to anything traditional to me

[Anonymous No.12539141]

>>12539119
when you are good at sati and Sampajañña , you can go to the jhanas

>"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.

>"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse.

>"For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person.

>"For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body.

>"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.

>"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.

>"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.

>"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment.


So it goes like this : mindfulness->concentraiton->vipassana

for vipassana, you do that:
>"'I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the first jhana.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, and consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite - the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'

[Anonymous No.12539199]

>>12534084
I'm intrigued, do you have them?

[Anonymous No.12539217]

>>12539140
Vipassana in the 900 pages of autism that is the Visuddhimagga is the usual 16 knowledges in CHAPTER XX. Mahasi copied those, just like Ingram copied mahasi.


those 16 Nanas come from the commentaries as stated here by Dhammanando
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?p=340963#p340963
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?p=341092#p341092

[Anonymous No.12539237]

>>12531585
This is how a wife beater starts their sentence.

[Anonymous No.12539239]

>>12539217
thanks, i may revisit the Visuddhimagga if i have the energy at some point...

but the point of Mahasi seems to me is that according to them you can basically skip the concentration part and just dive into insight practices, that's the innovation, not the knowledges that as you say already were described in the Visuddhimagga

have never really tried any of their practices so i may be wrong about this, but it's the easy to digest version they usually sell online

[Anonymous No.12539244]

>>12539237
I am not married, but i would beat my wife if i were to teach her the absurdity of Samsara.

[Anonymous No.12539246]

>>12531585
/thread and close 4chan

[Anonymous No.12539254]

>>12536388
>3) Not having significantly reduced self-clinging and craving through consistently deep practice of sila, virtue. When Willoughby Brittan asked the Dalai Lama why Westerners were having all these traumatic experiences of meditation, he was surprised and puzzled by what she was describing until he consulted with his attendents. Then he explained to her that this is an eight-fold path, and meditation shouldn't be practiced without the other five limbs. The practice of sila, performed properly, involves intentionally refraining from speaking and acting in response craving, and self-denial rather than self-clinging. The cumulative effect is to greatly diminish one's vulnerabilty to both craving and self-clinging. When this has not occured prior to the arising of Insight, craving and self-clinging in the face of Insight knowledge can be so intense and create enough inner chaos to throw someone into a deep hell realm.
based confused asians

[Anonymous No.12539257]

>>12534360
How is it possible to think about your thoughts using only thoughts? Do you think these thoughts are somehow not from the outside and so not "programming"? Do you think with language because all language follows rules that bias certain understandings about the world such tie and causation. Do you think you have an ability that others don't have where you are able to offer opinions as an agent in the world capable of choice? Is it not in your negation of thought that agency is created rather than in the selection of an opinion or course of action? Or is this negation suspect, too? Does volition require language even in negation? Are you possible as a self made without impulses or language?

[Anonymous No.12539259]

>>12538059
yes
that's the reason one needs to upgrade from NPC to fully appreciate mindfulness

>>12538939
Ingram seems to me a hack, don't know why
Culadasa, Shinzen Young (which is totally autistic about the scriptures and shit) and Leigh Brasinton are more legit imo

>>12538042
>psychosis
look the practices of traditional tibetan buddhism

[Anonymous No.12539297]

>>12534917
Practice sitting still, let your mind wander, notice your senses, don't indulge the thoughts but let them pass, slowly bring yourself to become aware that you are not your thoughts. After a while try concentrating on a visual outside you that is immobile and from this fixation your mindfulness of the object will strengthen your ability to recognize that self beyond language and sense experience. In time, this self can become so detached that you are able to withstand more pain than most people. And you'll have control over your stress levels to some degree and so be able to do intellectual work without exasperation every time you don't understand a problem.

[Anonymous No.12539379]

>>12536240
Fuck The Mind Illuminated bullshit, it's boring and also gay. Read With Each And Every Breath by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, have fun while you meditate.

Shinzen Young is a great choice too.

[Anonymous No.12539393]

>>12539379
>hurr durr just be yourself

[Anonymous No.12539416]

>>12531553
Sounds like she wasn't instructed very well. She just let the anxious thoughts come up and fixated on them, mindfulness meditation should train you to re-focus your thoughts on something neutral like your breathing.

[Anonymous No.12539527]

>>12538889
Ouch, someone struck a nerve?

[Anonymous No.12539541]

>>12534720
>lock myself in room during term for up to three weeks on end to avoid facing others
start leaving the house everyday, even just for a short walk. That's what you should do immediately being cooped up is really terrible for you.

[Anonymous No.12539548]

>>12538959
being at a monastery usually means you do some labour for them even if it's just cleaning. Long term stays work the fields and shit

[Anonymous No.12539555]

>>12531585
That is the point of following the path. You have to actually live in a decent way for a while so your conscience doesn't become weaponized against you by Mara.

[Anonymous No.12539586]

So there are two ways to reach nibanna: you either manage to have insight in a jhana, by remembering this:

>He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, and consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite - the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'

to realize this :
>"And what is the purpose of pleasure? What is its reward?"

>"Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward."

>"And what is the purpose of concentration? What is its reward?"

>"Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward."

>"And what is the purpose of knowledge & vision of things as they actually are? What is its reward?"

>"Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward."

>"And what is the purpose of disenchantment? What is its reward?"

>"Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward."

>"And what is the purpose of dispassion? What is its reward?"

"Dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.

[Anonymous No.12539590]

>>12539416
you can fixate on anything as long as you don't identify, your breath is easier but ideas and even painful ideas are ok too if you are good enough at it

[Anonymous No.12539609]

>>12531553
Hey I'm studying mindfulness in a grad school class and taking sessions with a wonderful meditation instructor from my faculty
The answer in yes mindfulness can be harmful: immersing yourself in the present while your present mental state is horrible can be a dark spiral.
This doesn't show up much in the literature though; an empirical study I read yesterday (systematic analysis of ~50 mindfulness studies) suggests that 80% noticed a correlation between mindfulness practices and reduced stress/anxiety and 20% did not see much change.
For most people it works well, a decent chunk it does nothing (interestingly the 20% it's ineffective for seem to tend disproportionately towards male), and a few outliers with mental health issues it might damage. For those I'd recommend finding a caring instructor or seeing a professional instead of downloading some app and jumping into meditation.

[Anonymous No.12539618]

or you have to go up to ''cessation of feelings and perceptions'', as a jhana, because you are too infatuated with them to get the dispassion above:

>These three feelings have been spoken of by me:
pleasant feeling, painful feeling, neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling.

>These three feelings have been spoken of by me.

>And I have also said:

>'Whatever is felt is included in suffering.'

>That has been stated by me with reference to the impermanence of formations.

>That has been stated by me with reference to formations being subject to destruction ...

>to formations being subject to vanishing ...

>to formations being subject to fading away ...

>to formations being subject to cessation ...

>to formations being subject to change.

>"Then, bhikkhu, I have also taught the successive cessation of formations.

>For one who has attained the first jhāna sa eech has ceased.

For one who has attained the second jhāna hought and examination have ceased.

>For one who has attained the third jhāna rapture has ceased.

>For one who has attained the fourth jhāna in-breathing and out-breathing have ceased.

>For one who has attained the base of the infinity of space, the perception of form has ceased.

>For one who has attained the base of the infinity of consciousness, the perception pertaining to the base of the infinity of space has ceased.

>For one who has attained the base of nothingness, the perception pertaining to the base of the infinity of consciousness has ceased.

>For one who has attained the base of neither-perception-nor-nonperception, the perception pertaining to the base of nothingness has ceased.

>For one who has attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling have ceased.

>For a bhikkhu whose taints are destroyed, lust has ceased, hatred has ceased, delusion has ceased.

because there is ''contact with the deathless'' with the emergence from this ''cessation of perception & feeling''

"Very good, venerable sir." And, delighting in and approving of Ven. Kamabhu's answer, Citta asked him a further question: "When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, how many contacts make contact?"

"When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, three contacts make contact: contact with emptiness, contact with the signless, & contact with the undirected."[3]

"Very good, venerable sir." And, delighting in and approving of Ven. Kamabhu's answer, Citta asked him a further question: "When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, to what does his mind lean, to what does it tend, to what does it incline?"

"When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, his mind leans to seclusion, tends to seclusion, inclines to seclusion."[4]

[Anonymous No.12539667]

>>12539379
It's similar technique. It even says mind 'has many minds'.
>>12538939
Ingram relies too much on his own experience that his advice may miss the point. He and his followers made a sport out of pinpointing Arising and Passing Away stage of Visudhimagga Progress of Insight and 'Dark Night'. Also his experience will barely align with Samatha oriented practices like in 'With Each and Every Breath' or 'The Mind Illuminated' anyway.

[Anonymous No.12539694]

>>12539254
Yes, Sila should be at start of every path. In 'The Mind Illuminated' you have keeping 5 precepts as a good start, trying to be mindful all the time and the practice of Mindful Review for that.

[Anonymous No.12539751]

>>12539609
The reason this happens is because fraudulent practitioners remove the ethical dimension of buddhism to create a sanitized, palatable version of meditation. The problem is that if you do not support your awareness with ethical conduct you will experience extreme inner turmoil. Rules of decency are not just outdated notions or repressive, but acts of self care and love.

[Anonymous No.12539829]

>>12539541
No shit. But the alternative of being around people, even random strangers on the street, is too uncomfortable because I feel like a complete subhuman in every way.

[Anonymous No.12540082]

>>12534939

Nothing worthwhile has been posted since I've asked. Sad.

[Anonymous No.12540258]

>>12539829
Going for walks regularly means that you'll realize nobody really cares what you're doing and they won't talk to you or remember you. At most you'll get a hello from about 1/10 people

[Anonymous No.12540287]

>>12531585
based oriental

[Anonymous No.12540381]

>>12540287
why are they so funny

[Anonymous No.12540503]

'Mindfulness' and 'meditation' are meme terms that don't mean anything. It's basically like saying 'sports'. I wish people would actually mention the technique they practice instead of speaking in these meaningless generalizations.

[Anonymous No.12540548]

>Headspace
How can you be so dependent on stimulus that your "clearing your mind and noticing the little things" exercise has to feature a narrator rambling feel-good new age shit in your ear for the session?
How can genuine silence be unbearable for people? I have friends who have Let's Play videos or shitty podcasts in their earbuds at a low volume at all literally times, and even play it when they sleep, because not hearing someone talking makes them uncomfortable.
Is it just a difference in how people's minds work? I'm the opposite extreme, I hate unnecessary noise and chatter. It just doesn't seem healthy for the influx of language and thoughts to literally never end, even if it's inane.

[Anonymous No.12540554]

>>12533699
>the WILD method of lucid dreaming
please elaborate on that

[Anonymous No.12540560]

>>12534641
That was Plato

[Anonymous No.12540703]

>>12540548
>Is it just a difference in how people's minds work? I'm the opposite extreme, I hate unnecessary noise and chatter. It just doesn't seem healthy for the influx of language and thoughts to literally never end, even if it's inane.
Those who are avoidant usually are pathetic enough to have minds which are set in this way of thinking yes.

[Anonymous No.12540780]

>>12540548
Solitary silence is uncomfortable because if we can't hear anything, we start to hear white noise - basically the sound of blood rushing through our ears. Some people don't like the "sound" of white noise, and keep distractions at hand to avoid it. Some people, like yourself, don't mind it.
Podcasts and the like are typically chosen over music because listening to the same song over and over gets on people's nerves, while podcasts are constantly updated and different. The quality of content doesn't usually matter, because usually, they're not actually listening to it.

[Anonymous No.12540813]

>>12537355
How frequent and long must should meditation sessions be?

[Anonymous No.12540853]

>>12533640
therapists want to keep you coming back for the $, it's a racket for the jews

[Anonymous No.12540866]

>>12540082
because it was an old hash you were reheating, and we're all chomping down on thick cut bacon and fresh cornbread, ya dingus

[Anonymous No.12540957]

>>12540813
Not the guy you replied to, but from my personal experience I wouldn't bother with anything less than an hour. If you're a beginner, often times it takes 40-50 minutes for your mind to even begin to settle down. If you can do one hour twice a day, everyday, even better. Once that becomes a habit you can start looking into an even more dedicated practice.

[Anonymous No.12540971]

>>12531553
Why do brits freak out over everything, island of weak wankers

[Anonymous No.12541142]

how does reincarnation fit into all this, buddha bros? does the path to nibanna serve a purpose without it?
if we're all going to just inevitably de-self and rejoin the great big oneness anyway when we die, why spend the only life we have shunning all that it can offer us?
or are the ecstasies of the jhannas beyond any corporeal pleasure?
but if jhanna-seeking becomes the nominal end of the eightfold path, ratjer than release from samsara, then what distinguishes thjs secular-ish buddhism from hedonism?

[Anonymous No.12541212]

>It's another thread that begins with an interesting topic but rapidly descends into shit posting after someone dehumanizes a large percentage of the board, with a single sentence no less

[Anonymous No.12541271]

>>12538096
this

[Anonymous No.12541272]

>>12541142
good question bro. sadly im only just getting into buddhism properly, after previously seeking on my own, and am therefore as clueless as you on the jhanas. but if i get experience with them, and remain on this cesspool, i'll try n share my thoughts abt them

[Anonymous No.12541307]

>>12541142
because you resist the "great big oneness"/void at death, and thirst for life and being

buddhism is basically becoming reconciled to the Deep

[Anonymous No.12541551]

>>12541142
>does the path to nibanna serve a purpose without it
The path to nibanna is literally the path to ceasing rebirth, it's inherent in the concept itself.
Buddhism does not work in the slightest without the concept of rebirth, and that's why the Western interpretation of it is so perverse and trite.

[Anonymous No.12542028]

>>12534720
Ive been exactly in your situation my dude. And i struggled with it for so long. I just could not get out of my head. It was so hard for me to communicate with other people, and what made it worse was i used weed and vidya to escape my reality. It becomes a vicious circle where the anxiety pushes you to alienate yourself which keeps you from breaking out of this shell, which in turn causes you to continually be anxious about any social interaction. I was literally autistic man, and i was desperate. I started looking towards eastern philo and psychedelic drugs to try and "change" my brain, and i think it partly has. Doing psychedelics made me really realize that nothing in my life is going to change unless i make an effort. It took a very long time for me to become comfortable with talking with people and becoming interested in other people.

What i characterize this self inflicted isolation and anxiety is the fear of being judged and further isolated and alienated, and a lot of these feelings came from a sense of superiority and constant judgement. Not being able to get out of my head and be in the present moment.

I guess what really did it for me was a kind of "enlightenment" where i realized that every single human creates a narrative for what they perceive and its just that, a narrative, a story. I know its cliche, but you just need to stop giving a fuck. But there is a caveat, you cant be an asshole and thats because being an asshole presupposes some kind of superiority which is a judgement. Being kind and genuine to your fellow human being opens doors, because you learn to really listen and not think. Being in the moment entails being aware of what is going on.

In essence, feelings of anxiety and the isolation that is entailed is stems from this distinction of superiority/inferiority. When you realize that no one is really better than anyone else, doors open up. I mean obviously you can compare people when you set up boundaries where comparison is valid, but everyone is going to die, and death is the greatest equalizer.

Basically, psychedelics, the stoics, and buddhism has helped me cope and broke me out of my shell. You dont have to do drugs, and i advise you to be really cautious with them. But what you have to do is find the courage to move past your fears. Overcoming fear is an important aspect of life. Once you confront your fears head on, over and over again, youll realize how silly it was. You just gotta do it man, i believe in you. Life is happening right now, why not enjoy it?

[Anonymous No.12542113]

>>12541551
my question to you, then, would be: if i don't buy the whole reincarnation thing, is there anything left to gain from developing mindfulness, concentration, and insight, that could not be found in other spiritual traditions maybe closer to home?

[Anonymous No.12542129]

>>12531553
>It's supposed to be calming [DOT] But there's (...)
This doesn't feel right.

[Anonymous No.12542179]

Someone explain to an ESL retard what mindfulness is in simple terms.

[Anonymous No.12542203]

>>12542179
like opening up a task manager where all the processes are organized, detailed and clear

[Anonymous No.12542279]

>>12541551
Although Buddhism loses much without rebirth, nibbana isn't defined solely as end of rebirth. Even without that there are one lifetime interpretations of twelve links of dependent origination that make rebirth part of experience within lifetime. Nibbana itself can be experienced within lifetime.
>>12541142
I have hard time believing in it myself
>are the ecstasies of the jhannas beyond any corporeal pleasure?
Yes they are. I had a little taste of them myself and I can't imagine how more stable and deeper states better are.
>if jhanna-seeking becomes the nominal end of the eightfold path, ratjer than release from samsara, then what distinguishes thjs secular-ish buddhism from hedonism?
Jhanas are called 'Nibbana here and now [for those who haven't achieved Nibbana yet]' in Suttas. Nibbana itself is the greatest pleasure and contrary to pleasure of Jhanas goesn't go away when you stop practicing. Path to Nibbana is literally path to cessation of suffering, rebirth included as it's endless source.
>>12542113
Yes, I practice because I want to be happy.
>>12542179
You notice things in your mind without being caught by them.

[Anonymous No.12542894]

>>12539393
Abhidhamma fag begone

[Anonymous No.12542901]

>>12539667
It's more enjoyable and filled with less autistic definitions like 'meta cognitive introspective awareness' though

[Anonymous No.12542902]

Gaze deep within yourself, and see the things you really want to purchase.

[Anonymous No.12542979]

>>12539257

do you enjoy asking vapid pointless questions?

[Anonymous No.12543048]

>>12542901
Well defined terms is strong point of TMI. Manual i supposed to be good. Whether it's boring or gay is irrelevant to me.

[Anonymous No.12543096]

You want to become a braindead woman, you follow Vajrayana

You want to become a braindead man, you follow Mahayana

Otherwise, you follow theravada

[Anonymous No.12544461]

>>12543096
ummm sweetie... Theravada descends from the Sthavira minority group who broke away from the majority at the 2nd council because the majority wouldn't accept the heterodox changes the Sthavira wanted to institute. The quintessence of Buddha's teachings were better preserved in the Mahayana tradition and distilled and perfected in schools like Chan, Huayan, Dzogchen and Jonang. Westerners gravitate towards Theravada because it aligns with their own crass materialist views.

[Anonymous No.12544470]

redpill me on mindfulness

[Anonymous No.12544639]

obsessing over things is opposite the point of mindfulness

it's about letting thoughts in, acknowledging them, letting them leave when they like but not overstaying their welcome

[Anonymous No.12544867]

>>12544639
a very important part of buddhism is discriminating between good and bad thoughts, yes, once you are at the end of the path the thoughts are irrelevant, but if you want to get there they aren't

[Anonymous No.12544874]

>>12544639
mindfulness is about not letting bad thoughts set in

[Anonymous No.12544892]

>>12544867
thoughts are never irrelevant! you have to discriminate what is healthy and good from what is not certainly, but you still must acknowledge those potentially negative thoughts none the less, thats part of the taiji

>>12544874
certainly not set in! but you can not ignore or fight those thoughts, you have to to at least recognize they are there

[Anonymous No.12545100]

>>12542279
>Nibbana itself can be experienced within lifetime.
Sure, but whether or not the intense dedication required to get there -within the context of only having one life- is worth it, I find doubtful. Life doesn't necessarily have to be terrible and the suttas say as much. If you're born in a time and place where you're even allowed to know of the Dhamma (.i.e. all of us) you're 'karmically' fortunate. So you could very well have a decent life. Without the idea of rebirth, there's no reason to specifically pursue Buddhism (unless your life is terrible, I suppose).
>>12542113
I don't know. I can't answer that question for you because I don't know what it is you're looking for. But generally speaking, I'd say that if you're not down with Buddhist cosmology, you should look elsewhere. If it's the meditative practices you find helpful, you should pursue them in a framework you deem agreeable. Buddhism doesn't have a monopoly on meditation (a lot of contemporary techniques we associate with Buddhism aren't even Buddhist either, but that's a whole other thing).
For whatever reason, Westerners have picked Buddhism as somehow being 'right' when there are of course a multitude of other Eastern traditions, with their own practices and beliefs that are differen't from Buddhism. Why not look into that? You don't even have to go East, there's Western esoteric traditions. Why adopt a tradition at all if all you want is the benefits of meditation?

[Anonymous No.12545102]

>>12531553
apps can be

[Anonymous No.12545127]

>>12534917
get an app like Headspace or, and I am using this now, the new app by Sam Harris called Waking Up. Meditation is pretty fascinating.

[Anonymous No.12545143]

>>12545100
>there's Western esoteric traditions
how alive are those is questionable, and many of the ones that appeared on the 19th century were already heavily eclectic and full of eastern influence

[Anonymous No.12545186]

Harris' app is really fucking good regardless of what you may think of him in other areas.

[Anonymous No.12545544]

>>12540554
Wake-Initiaited Lucid Dreaming is where you enter a lucid dream from a waking state instead of using tricks to suddenly realize you are dreaming about becoming lucid while you are already in a dream. Have you ever noticed that if you lay still in bed for a long time trying to fall asleep, right before you fall asleep sometimes you start to have dream-like stories and scenarios play out in your mind but you are still awake with your eyes closed? If you remain awake but allow your body to fall asleep you will be lucid from the very beginning of the dream. Most books on lucid dreaming will cover this topic.

[Anonymous No.12545620]

>>12533646

Serious question: Is your ass jealous of all the shit that comes out of your mouth?

[Anonymous No.12545668]

>>12540853
Surely people have enough problems that for an individual therapist the best strategy would be to do the best therapy they can and get more clients based on the recommendations of their previous satisfied customers.

[Anonymous No.12545821]

Mindfulness is a confused philosophy consisting of a bunch of garbage attached together to bring temporary comfort to anxious people.