/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12528701]

>be mentally ill
>complain about all Men because your brothers went to University
>go drown in a river

"Wow truly an author of her time!"

[Anonymous No.12528709]

You forgot the bit where she wrote a run of brilliant novels

[Anonymous No.12528735]

>>12528701
Never read Virginia Woolf. How does her empowerment ideas rate on the modern extremist scale?

[Anonymous No.12528798]

fuck emancipation and fuck women

[Anonymous No.12528827]

>>12528735
>women delay their own emancipation by conforming to patriarchal expectations

>women deserve to be educated because they can potentially bring new ideas to the table

>female authors are often disregarded by male academics solely because they struggle to relate to what's being written, not because they lack artistic merit

>all female writing is therefore empowering and feminist because it allows women to offer fresh perspectives on the world

>men who fetishise masculinity are often insecure and overcompensating


Overall, nothing radical. She'd probably be considered a liberal feminist if she was alive today. As a side note, all of her essays are fantastic and extremely entertaining, so you should definitely read them even if it's just for the quality of writing alone. Read her novels too. I'm not joking when I say she's one of the greatest authors in the English language.

[Anonymous No.12528836]

>>12528827

She'd most definitely be considered Republican and "white feminist" today.

>Classism
>Racism
>Anti-semitism

[Anonymous No.12528843]

>>12528701
>be mentally ill
>complain about all Men because your brothers went to University
>go drown in a river
Like every feminist desu

[Anonymous No.12528845]

>>12528836
Why else do you think I said "liberal feminist"?

[Anonymous No.12528892]

>>12528827
>women deserve to be educated because they can potentially bring new ideas to the table
>all female writing is therefore empowering and feminist because it allows women to offer fresh perspectives on the world


Powerful...

[Anonymous No.12528904]

>>12528892

>Bunch of autists screeching "WOMEN R GROSS THEY ARE SLUTS" is somehow different from this tweet

[Anonymous No.12528907]

neck yourself

[Anonymous No.12528939]

>>12528904
Well for starters she has written a few books (which of course reflect her Misandry and mental illness) that have been reviewed by the guardian and she does presentations on feminism for schools here in Australia (one of which got media attention because she refused to take questions from boys). So not only does the same person who wrote this tweet has been given a public podium to speak on, those allowing her to do school presentations and exposure for her books see her as an acceptable public figure of feminism.

[Anonymous No.12528965]

So feminism is just veiled or blatant misandry jah? Why would any man take that shit seriously lmao

[Anonymous No.12528966]

>>12528939
That isn't the kind of feminism Woolf advocated for though, you have to remember that Woolf's writings on feminism predate even The Second Sex, meaning that she was a first waver who couldn't possibly foresee the direction the ideology would take come the third wave onwards (her racism would probably leave her disgusted at the concept of intersectionality, I bet).

Woolf's feminist views are pretty palatable to the general public in this day and age, and she even practiced what she preached by not having any of her fiction writing directly reference feminism, because just the act of her writing was something she saw as feminist in of itself. It's a pretty reasonable belief system.

[Anonymous No.12528968]

>>12528827
Not just not radical, all the points here are very logical. She seems like ideal mix.

[Anonymous No.12529027]

>>12528968
I know. Her writings knocked me out of a /pol/ phase and made me more sympathetic towards feminism, while also making me more aware of some of masculinity's shortcomings. They really are an amazing batch of essays.

[Anonymous No.12529045]

>>12529027
Her Common Reader volumes also more or less espouse the canon. Proust obsessed her as one of the finest writers of all time, and though much admired by her the roadblock that came between her and what she wanted out of her own writing.

[Anonymous No.12529057]

>>12528701
Critic the work, not the writer

[Anonymous No.12529063]

>>12529027
pls be bait

[Anonymous No.12529085]

>>12529027
>/pol/ phase
This has never been a frill soldier

[Anonymous No.12529128]

>>12528709
fpbp

[Anonymous No.12529140]

>>12528966
>That isn't the kind of feminism Woolf advocated for though

But it's the norm today.

Feminism, especially after 4th wave is no longer about the emancipation of women.

[Anonymous No.12529224]

>This is an important book, the critic assumes, because it deals with war. This is an insignificant book because it deals with the feelings of women in a drawing-room.

[Anonymous No.12529256]

>>12529140
And that’s a tragedy. It annoys me that the name of feminism has been tarnished by people talking about trivial bullshit rather than focusing on solving real inequalities that women face (some of which ironically, were caused by 4th wave feminism).

[Anonymous No.12529270]

she was even sexually abused as a minor and looked down on everyone who was poorer than her while pretending to be a victim

it's funny how feminists follow the same toxic behaviors to this day

[Anonymous No.12529278]

She's great. I really like both she and H.D.
I don't think they would be happy to see the state of today's feminist writing.

[Anonymous No.12529299]

her novels are truly something of beauty. The middle section of To The Lighthouse comes to mind, devastating and perfectly executed. If you're really so deluded as to thinking no work of writing or creative expression made by a women is worth experiencing or engaging with, you are truly subhuman.

[Anonymous No.12529312]

>>12529140
Many people today who consider themselves "feminists," myself included, are still for the emancipation of women and equality between the sexes. The problem is that people who are the most vocal about calling themselves "feminists" actually aren't, and instead are the cretins that discuss shit like the article you posted. These stupid motherfuckers then incite a reaction because ignorant and gullible people think these misandrists are leading a huge anti-men movement, and all of a sudden (thanks to social media) we have a large percentage of the population that thinks misandry and feminism are the same thing.

[Anonymous No.12529317]

>>12528701
>women

[Anonymous No.12529321]

>>12529312
i can't imagine anything more pathetic than being a male and calling yourself a feminist while living in the west in 2k19

[Anonymous No.12529329]

>>12528827
>female authors are often disregarded by male academics solely because they struggle to relate to what's being written, not because they lack artistic merit
What female authors she thought were underrated?

[Anonymous No.12529339]

Women without penises are garbage

[Anonymous No.12529341]

>>12529140
I don't know what you mean but whatever you could be implying by the "emancipation of women" isn't possible. Formal equality, liberalism, never "emancipated" women anywhere if that's what you're implying. Men just continually outperform women if mens behaviour isn't strictly regulated.
How exactly isn't feminism "especially after 4th wave" not about "emancipation"? Is it still to liberal?

>>12529312
You can't be a feminist and support equality. Women are weaker then men. If they aren't protected in a special manner, just as children, they will be victims.

[Anonymous No.12529672]

>>12528968
>>12528827
>>12529027

>female authors are often disregarded by male academics solely because they struggle to relate to what's being written, not because they lack artistic merit

Take a look at this point. A modern version of feminism would write this statement like:
'female authors are often disregarded by male academics solely because of inherent patriarchy and hatred for women not because they lack artistic merit.'
Instead of the easy 'hate women' peddling route, she actually tried to look deep into cause.

[Anonymous No.12529683]

>>12528939
wew. where will this all lead i wonder

[Anonymous No.12529703]

>>12529339
>Women without penises
Found the title for my short story collection

[Anonymous No.12529804]

>be a woman
>be ugly
>write brilliant prose in English unlike anything written before or after
>be recognized as one of the great modernist authors

[Anonymous No.12529805]

>>12529312
>emancipation of women and equality between the sexes
Is this not already the case in developed countries?

[Anonymous No.12529830]

Feminism, like socialism, or communism, capitalism, fascism, is a word that means so many different things to so many different people that it is impossible to use without being completely misunderstood. I try to avoid ideological words like these and try to use specific goals of the ideologies to describe them. So fascism becomes autarkic ethnonationalism, socialism becomes employee ownership and so on.

[Anonymous No.12529852]

>>12529804
>great modernist
you know that's like saying "smart retard"

[Anonymous No.12529855]

>>12529852
Aren't modernists good? Isn't that what Joyce and the rest belonged to?

[Anonymous No.12529858]

>>12528798
Based and Weiningerpilled

[Anonymous No.12529888]

Her writing is awful, it's just the usual self-satisfied purple prose tosh that all middlebrow writers use with some modernist crap stolen from Joyce (who is also overrated)

[Anonymous No.12529939]

>>12528701
>be daughter of rich people
>marry rich well-connected lit man
>have room of one’s own and make a deal about it
>own a printing press
>self-publish
Yeah she’s a fucking hack. What makes me so mad about her is that I gurantee there were better legitimately feminist writers of the time who simply got drowned out beause this bitch had better PR.

[Anonymous No.12529962]

>>12529939
there are no good feminist writers, they have nothing to say other than muh vagina

[Anonymous No.12530038]

>>12529962
idk i enjoy audre lorde and eve sedgwick. theyre faggots though so they mostly write about that.

[Anonymous No.12530058]

>>12529855
it depends, Woolf and Joyce are highly overrated and people confused their mentally ill ramblings as genius

[Anonymous No.12530084]

>be mentally ill
>complain about everything
>go drown in a river

"Wow truly an author of his time!"

[Anonymous No.12530099]

>>12529962
>Feminists focus on issues surrounding women

Imagine my surprise. It's probably the best anyone has said on the issue

[Anonymous No.12530101]

>>12530099
Check out The Second Sex*

[Anonymous No.12530110]

>>12530099
I'm a man but I don't constantly write about muh dick all day

[Anonymous No.12530115]

>>12529256
>the name of feminism has been tarnished
Yup, almost from day one.

[Anonymous No.12530120]

>>12530110
Because reality is male already so you don't need to write about meninism

[Anonymous No.12530123]

>>12530058
Or perhaps you're mentally ill and the community of people who have devoted their life to dedicated reading is right about two of its most celebrated figures :^)

[Anonymous No.12530126]

>>12530120
how is reality male exactly

[Anonymous No.12530140]

>>12530120
thanks for conceding male superiority

[Anonymous No.12530174]

>>12530115
I still can’t believe that the handing out of white feathers was actually a thing.

Did the suffragettes have no self-awareness?

[Anonymous No.12530186]

>>12529830
>autarkic ethnonationalism
thanks, anon. I'll take that into account next time I talk about Wakanda and Israel.

[Anonymous No.12530217]

>>12530120
>reality is male
wtf does that even mean

[Anonymous No.12530220]

>>12530126
It's why the book is called the Second Sex, men typically think the default human is a male while females are the secondary Other that they out-group. You can see it in a lot of the threads created here with "why do women" "what do women" questions.

[Anonymous No.12530232]

her books are actually really good desu

[Anonymous No.12530241]

>>12528701
>Attack her character and not her work bc feminists amirite
Hmmmmm

[Anonymous No.12530244]

>>12530220
No shit men see themselves as default, so do women

[Anonymous No.12530363]

>>12530244
The point is that there is no default to consciousness

[Anonymous No.12530404]

>>12530363
>MAN
>woMAN
their existence is predicated on a prefix

[Anonymous No.12530415]

>>12530363
possibly, but in our every day experience of stuff, our pure consciousness(assuming such a thing) is filtered through things like sex

[Anonymous No.12530433]

>>12530404
Look, I like The Second Sex, but the words "man" and "woman" are the result of simple linguistic evolution rather than any gender bias.

[Anonymous No.12531447]

>>12530120
>reality is male

I don't know what the hell it means but I kekd out loud

[Anonymous No.12532918]

>>12528701
>complain about all Men because your brothers went to University
Her brothers also cornholed her

[Anonymous No.12532969]

>>12528892
Women are whores and also mothers. Don't kill them please.

[Anonymous No.12532995]

>>12530174
>Did the suffragettes have no self-awareness?
Women have no self-awareness. There is no such thing as a self-aware woman.

[Anonymous No.12533008]

>>12530120
>Because reality is male already

[Anonymous No.12533099]

>>12529321
I'm a male Muslim feminist living in the west, ask me anything

[Anonymous No.12533103]

>>12529888
Do you have any examples of what she stole from Joyce? Asking for a friend

[Anonymous No.12533115]

>>12530220
It's like you're saying that reality for men is from a male perspective

[Anonymous No.12533562]

>>12528892
Does this seem like educated speech to you?
These are the ravings of a lunatic, one who is bitter for their own shortcomings and redirecting rage towards men. If she focused on her mind and not her frustration from sexuality, I doubt we’d hear such cancer.

[Anonymous No.12533601]

>literally changes the sex of her protagonist half way through the novel

[Anonymous No.12533621]

Mrs. Dalloway and To The Lighthouse are great novels.

The Waves sounds cool if you describe it to me, but then I read it and it was boring as hell.

[Anonymous No.12533843]

>>12533099
you get the bullets too

[Anonymous No.12533858]

>>12528701
why would any of that mean she wasn't 'of her time'? It was a pretty good time for being insane, not going to university and ultimately drowning yourself

[Anonymous No.12533863]

>>12528892
That is empowering though. Fantasies about killing people are bound to make you feel more powerful, even if you also happen to think they're nuts

[Anonymous No.12533887]

Who would win in a fight between Virginia Woolf, Gene Wolfe, Thomas Wolfe and an actual wolf? Assume they're all in their prime.

[Anonymous No.12534137]

>>12533887
The Big Bad Wolf

[Anonymous No.12534303]

>>12528965
Only if you take your definition of feminism from retarded Twitter sluts, in which case it’s your fault for mistaking it for misandry.

[Anonymous No.12534327]

>>12530433
They’re not the result of gender bias, but it certainly perpetuates the idea that women are a kind of secondary category, while men are the central reference point from which women are deviations. This is basically what psychoanalysis/ psychoanalytic feminism describes as the phallus, that the history of selfhood has been orientated according to this perspective.

[Anonymous No.12534363]

>>12533887
Bad wolf. Not big.

[Anonymous No.12534393]

>>12533887
Gene Wolfe was a soldier and probably has gnostic superpowers

[Anonymous No.12534400]

>>12530241
>Making a single piece of work means your character is beyond question
kys

[Anonymous No.12534401]

>>12533099
>male Muslim feminis
Talk about the worst of both worlds

[Anonymous No.12535859]

>>12528827
>>all female writing is therefore empowering and feminist because it allows women to offer fresh perspectives on the world

[Anonymous No.12535905]

Bros, how do we make this world a better place for women to live in? I love women a lot and I want to do my part to make them feel as comfortable here as they deserve to be. What can we do to make them feel appreciated and cherished and loved and equal to us men?

[Anonymous No.12535945]

>>12535905
Put the toilet seat down for a start. Women just plonk their butts without checking first and end up falling in, and then its somehow "your fault" that they're too retarded to know how to shit properly.

Also, if you drive a white van then catcall as many women as you can, because chances are that'll give them enough justification to make it a hate crime, even though their sensitivity to vulgar language is nothing more than white feminism's crypto-hatred for the working class.

[Anonymous No.12535974]

>>12535945
>>12535945
I do put the seat down, and I always ensure it's clean too. And the reason they "plonk their butts" down, is because they're absolute sweethearts, completely innocent by nature, and everything they do is a reflection of that fact.

Regarding the other stuff, don't ever do such a rude thing to them. Don't ever. You're a very bad person if you do that.

[Anonymous No.12535989]

>>12535905
Castrate yourself. One more sexually inactive man means one less potential rapist to feed into their paranoia.

[Anonymous No.12536002]

>>12535905
Brain chips that instantly terminate a man if he even feels one slightly rapey thought

[Anonymous No.12536005]

LE EBIN EPIC EBIN LE EBIN EBIN EPIC TROLLED EBIN BENIS

[Anonymous No.12536006]

>>12535989
>>12536002
you guys are absolutely insensitive, and simply seething. try and see both sides of the issues in the world, and not merely the one you're more comfortable viewing

[Anonymous No.12536009]

>>12535905
Make it illegal for men to leave their homes at night unless they have to work. This was actually proposed in my country's capital city.

[Anonymous No.12536015]

>>12536006
Ask a stupid question, get a sarcastic answer.

[Anonymous No.12536023]

>>12536006
M8 if you want men to treat women better you need to figure our wtf makes men depraved enough to act on these things, and there is no straight forward or even realistic answer.

[Anonymous No.12536027]

>>12535945
Put the toilet lid down is best practise desu

[Anonymous No.12536032]

>>12535945
>>12536027
I seriously never understood the toilet seat thing, it should be entirely incosequential, but woman logic doesnt need to be rational or make sense

[Anonymous No.12536039]

>>12535974
>>12535974
>the reason they "plonk their butts" down, is because they're absolute sweethearts, completely innocent by nature
you do realise how patronising this sounds, right? women aren't innocent, and even the majority of them would readily admit it. You're one step away from a madonna/whore complex.

>don't ever do such a rude thing to them. Don't ever. You're a very bad person if you do that.
Why? the more you do it, the more likely it is to be criminalised. Isn't that what you/women want to feel "comfortable"? To not have to deal with the vulgarities of the peasant class beneath them? It's no wonder Virginia Woolf is one of the most popular female writers, seeing as how much she despised the underclasses. Poverty doesn't make noble people, but feminists are too concerned with purging society of the "white van man". Its literal ethnic/cultural cleansing, all because they don't want to hear naughty words. pathetic

[Anonymous No.12536041]

>>12536032
they don’t want to touch the toilet seat, they handle your food, genitals, clothes, children etc. the least you can do for the poor things is put down the seat

[Anonymous No.12536049]

>>12536023
the issue is those who are apparently acting on something are pretending that the mysteries of rape is biological superiority instead of doing what is decent and questioning themselves, trying to be better human beings instead of attacking everyone who might make you feel uncomfortable about how your pathetic existence might not be the best it can be

i dont have to be a feminist to know i often need to question my own motivations

[Anonymous No.12536053]

>>12536032
Part of me assumes its kind of a sexist hangup anyways. Women are "sensitive" and don't want to touch the icky toilet seat, whereas men are brutish and used to getting their hands dirty. Just one of those instances where women are content to maintain the status quo, even though it makes them out to be pathetically impotent and fragile

[Anonymous No.12536072]

>>12536049
People who do these things just dgaf about morals, there can be millions of reasons why they may not care about them. The biological superiority isnt usually the reason its just the unfortunate aspect for women.

[Anonymous No.12536099]

>>12536039
well i do see women as innocent and maybe that's my own false projection onto them but i still hold them to be inherently more innocent than men are. men are truly perverse, disgusting creatures inside, a lot of them at least. they are animals in many regards, vulgar beasts without reason. at least women, in their worst aspects, still have reason and empathy, it's merely that their emotions drive them to wicked ends, such as manipulating others or getting revenge on people they perceive as having wronged them. men are cruel for cruelty's sake, perverted for perversion's sake, disgusting for disgusting's sake.

And no you shouldn't do that because it's bad to do, in itself. women should never have to be harassed in their lives

not disagreeing with the rest, regarding Woolf and modern feminists

>>12536053
unbelievable. is it so difficult to imagine that you, the toilet seat user, should be taking care of the situation you yourself brought about, which the women would not have to deal with if she lived alone? look how sensitive you are, always blaming women for anything you can

[Anonymous No.12536185]

>>12536099
>but i still hold them to be inherently more innocent than men are
which is why they are masters of manipulation, and I'm saying that to their credit. Men are perverse, disgusting creatures that are almost entirely lacking in self-awareness, sure, but at least the animalistic impulses of the male psyche aren't consciously "evil". It's like you said, "peverted for perversion's sake", whereas women are consciously evil and manipulative for their own benefit. Also your self-flagellation makes me mad as hell, but its not worth even trying to pick apart your liberal impotence.

>is it so difficult to imagine that you, the toilet seat user, should be taking care of the situation you yourself brought about
what the fuck are you talking about? women are the designated "toilet seat users", men don't even use it for half of their business as they stand up to pee. Besides, why should we pacify the female sex by assuming they're too fragile to touch a fucking toilet seat? Unlike you, I'm not so shallow as to assume they're incapable of doing it for themselves. I want women to empower themselves, not rely on a man to do their dirty business for them

[Anonymous No.12536273]

>>12536099
Look man, I love women with a passion and would surround myself with exclusively female company if it were possible, but I'm with >>12536185 in the sense that coddling women does NOT empower them.

In order to make the world a better place for women, we have to let them take responsibility for their actions and handle their own affairs. That's exactly what both patriarchal expectations and radical feminism don't provide. A strong woman is a strong person, and strong people don't need to be coddled like infants.

[Anonymous No.12536305]

Just put the lid of the toilet down. And it's more healthy for men to sit down to pee anyway, it drains better.

[Anonymous No.12536753]

>>12536185
Men enjoy evil, when they partake in it, while women only commit evil out of the fragility of their own egos. If women could control their internal self, and learn to not be affected by any negative words or actions directed toward them, they'd scarcely be found to commit acts of conscious malevolence. Unlike men, however, who commit the majority of the world's atrocities simply by the sheer force of the will-to-brutality so many have within themselves.

There's no self-flagellation here either by the way, I don't include my own self in the evaluations of males I'm presenting here. Anyone who has lived a week in this world, and isn't ensnared by politics of identity, can see with clarity just how despicable men tend to be, and how most horrors of the world fall squarely on their shoulders alone.

Women sit on the toilet, for everything. Men only for one half of their business. If a man uses the toilet, and lifts up the seat for such a purpose, it is by nature that he should be the one to place it down once done. It is not the duty of women to perform actions they would not have to perform by themselves. No different than if a women were in a man's bathroom and did her makeup while in there, she should be the one cleaning every bit of it prior to leaving, and ensuring that the man is not tending to an action that has no relation to him. Are you really complaining about putting down a toilet seat, which was only lifted up because of you yourself?

>>12536273
I agree, yet I don't agree that what I've been stating constitutes a "coddling" of women.

[Anonymous No.12536821]

>>12536753
You genuinely anger me. I hope you find a way out of being woman's toilet-slave, you worm.

[Anonymous No.12536840]

>>12536821
So whenever you go to your mother's house, or any female family member's, you literally lift up the seat and just leave it like that? For them to adjust after you, like you were some kind of child who didn't know better? I'm stunned.

[Anonymous No.12536847]

>>12536840
Nigger the point is who the fuck cares who puts it down or leaves it up it takes one hand motion and if someone forgets who cares.

[Anonymous No.12536853]

>>12528709
based

[Anonymous No.12536902]

>>12536753
>women only commit evil out of the fragility of their own egos
You say you're not "coddling" women after already suggesting that women are only capable of acts of evil due to their fragility. Why are you so keen to deny them agency? You might think of him as a charlatan but Zizek makes an excellent parallel point about refugees– liberals use "open-heart" rhetoric to claim that refugees are noble, sensitive, kind, beautiful etc. In order to change immigration policy, but isn't this a reductive characterisation of the other? If we are capable of acts of evil or malice, why should they be incapable of doing the same, and why should that evil dictate whether or not we open our borders to them if it already exists inside? It's not a dance of sensitivity, its a matter of concrete political change. The idea of a woman putting down the toilet seat is a reciprocal act of evil– man unconsciously leaves the seat up so the woman has no choice but to get her hands dirty. This is a perfect image of the female emancipatory struggle. The problem of the toilet seat is more of a joke about chivalry than it is a serious point about equal rights, but the point remains. Your defence of women stems from a preconception of them that they don't belong in the shit with the rest of us, that you have to lay your jacket down over the puddle so their shoes don't get wet.

[Anonymous No.12536933]

>>12529312
>myself included
I hope you're a woman. Nothing dries more my pussy than a male feminist.

[Anonymous No.12536948]

>>12536933
t. embittered incel larping as a female

[Anonymous No.12537031]

>>12534400
Good thing she didn't make a "single piece of work" then, you inbred autist

[Anonymous No.12537061]

>>12534327
Sorry if I don't weep with you because polarity and dichotomy exists.

[Anonymous No.12537131]

>>12537061
It's not a case of polarities and dichotomies, the phallus is a pure demonstration of how sexual difference is not binary but constituted within the linguistic components of figure and ground. Why do you think so many poets compare the curves of a woman to a landscape? The speaking figure cuts across the frame, producing difference and engendering differentiation at a formal level within the composition of the poem. "dichotomy" isn't the problem, its not man and not-man, or bim and bom, but man and (wo)man. There is something problematic in the way our language doesn't dichotomise the forms of these words, but its not the cause of female subjugation– it's merely indicative of how this formal discrepancy can make all the difference when conceptualising gender.

[Anonymous No.12537149]

>>12528836
>Republican
Why would any Englishman or Englishwoman want to abolish the monarchy, the foundation of all rights and law in this country?