/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12516422]

I don't get it. *IS* there no alternative?

[Anonymous No.12516835]

Is this actually worth reading?

[Anonymous No.12516841]

>>12516422
No there's not.
He's reduced to talk about movies rather than even trying to search for one.

[Anonymous No.12516850]

>>12516841
Epic DWC ripoff

[Anonymous No.12516857]

>>12516422
He doesnt know whats the alternative, but he is ready to observe and analyze capitalism in order to find its contradictions and hypocrisy which should shake things up a bit.

[Anonymous No.12516860]

There is one, which he did

[Anonymous No.12516897]

The whole point of the book is to point out how what he describes as Capitalist Realism impedes anybody from actually finding an alternative.
>>12516860
Basically this.

[Anonymous No.12516943]

>>12516857
>should shake things up a bit.
How? When has this kind of mental masturbation ever toppled a regime as all-pervasive as capitalism?

[Anonymous No.12516949]

>>12516860
>>12516897
>he did
Which is? Whole lotta nothing from Fisher apologists, as is always the case.

[Anonymous No.12516952]

oh look faggot ass OP made another faggot ass thread with the same faggot ass topic and same faggot ass pasta for the 100th faggot ass time.

[Anonymous No.12516969]

>>12516952
A line of text hardly constitutes a "pasta," Fish*id. There use to be Fisher circle jerk threads all the time here, now the only time he is brought up on this board is derisively and suddenly you have a problem?

[Anonymous No.12517001]

>>12516969
you literally made this exact thread several times. I've always had a problem with threads about Zero Books.

[Anonymous No.12517046]

What works should I read by him? This and Ghosts of My Life?

[Anonymous No.12517065]

>>12517046
None, read 24/7 by Jonathan Crary instead.

[Anonymous No.12517068]

>>12516422
Yes. Fascism.

[Anonymous No.12517076]

>>12516949
Suicide

[Anonymous No.12517081]

>>12517065
Why?

[Anonymous No.12517089]

>>12517068
>traditionalist capitalism isn't capitalism.

[Anonymous No.12517123]

>>12516422
We had feudalist realism before the American revolution. Imagine all the screeching at the time about how the English and French revolutions prove republican democracy can't work.

[Anonymous No.12517139]

"According to Fisher, capitalist realism has so captured public thought that the idea of anti-capitalism no longer acts as the antithesis to capitalism. Instead, it is deployed as a means for reinforcing capitalism. This is done through media such as WALL-E which aims at providing a safe means of consuming anti-capitalism without actually challenging the system. The lack of coherent alternatives, as presented through the lens of capitalist realism, leads many anti-capitalist movements to not target the end of capitalism, but instead to mitigate its worst effects, often through individual consumption-based activities such as Product Red"

Sounds like slave morality

[Anonymous No.12517144]

>>12517123
the fuck are you talking about? America did Republican Democracy just fine, it's only France that regressed to Monarchism.

[Anonymous No.12517145]

>>12517076
Fair enough, at least Fisher took his ideology to its logical conclusion, I can respect him for that.

[Anonymous No.12517151]

>>12517081
Because it does what Fisher attempts to do but does it much better and more coherently.

[Anonymous No.12518480]

>dude music has just been throw back shit since the early 90s

This guy is dumb. Hasn't he heard of Death Grips?

[Anonymous No.12518489]

>>12516943
Exactely Land’s point. Academia was a mistake.

[Anonymous No.12518534]

>>12516422
Yes, Marxism-Leninism. Fuck this revisionist post-modernist video game metaphysics bullshit.

[Anonymous No.12518538]

>>12516422
<i>The Third Way!</i>

[Anonymous No.12518542]

>>12517139
That's idealist nonsense. First worlders won't rebel because they benefit from imperialism, not because of fucking movies or video games.

[Anonymous No.12518563]

>>12518534
Jesus i'm a commie but that picture is fucking cringe

[Anonymous No.12518567]

>>12518480
IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES... into the trash lmao fuck memegrips

[Anonymous No.12518582]

>>12518534
Fisher isn't a Marxist-Leninist though. None of these "leftist" meme philosophers are.

[Anonymous No.12518627]

Can someone please tell me why Fisher spoke of Acid Communism, and what exactly it provides as theory?

[Anonymous No.12518632]

>>12518582
No he isn't because he's an idealist. He's not looking at the material conditions. Culture doesn't make capitalism, capitalism makes culture.

[Anonymous No.12518785]

>>12518632
Who would you recommend reading for this stuff?

[Anonymous No.12518816]

>>12518785
What quick reading or long? Quick - Lenin, specifically The State and Imperialism, Left Communism an Infantile Disease, all of Engles (he's not as hard to read as marx, for marx you need a fucking notebook). Try to read as much of Stalin and Mao as possible (they're actually good for beginners since they wrote very clearly and concisely). Stalin's "Problem's of Leninism", "Dialectical and Historical Materialism" and "Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR" are good. Mao's "On Contradiction", "Critique of Stalin's Economic Problems Of Socialism in the USSR" are good. Gramsci's Prison Notebooks deserve a thorough read as well.

Of course, these are just to give a quick overview. Really you should just read as much as you can from who you can, and eventually you should read Marx to see where the ideas originate and how they've they've changed.

[Anonymous No.12518831]

>>12518816
My apologies, Lenin's "The State and Revolution" and "Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism", not "The State Imperialism", that's not a thing.

The good thing is as well all their works are archived and you can read them for free here https://www.marxists.org/..

[Anonymous No.12518836]

>>12517001
Zero is a damn tragedy desu, they started out publishing really exciting work, then some galaxy brain in the marketing department figured out they could make more money doing essentially vanity projects and everyone talented jumped ship to Repeater. Which is tiny.

[Anonymous No.12518838]

>>12516943
>regime
>capitalism
Y'all need Foucault

[Anonymous No.12518858]

>>12518816
>>12518831
Also of interest: once you've read or understand some of these, go back and read Mussolini's "The Doctrine of Fascism" and you'll really start to understand what fascism is, why it exists and its contemporary resurgence on a deeper level.

[Anonymous No.12518859]

>>12518816
>>12518831
Thanks. What do you think is the best contemporary writer on these topics?

[Anonymous No.12518917]

>>12518859
Not really any. Contemporary marxist-leninists (and all its offshoots) are more focused on what to do next rather than the fundamentals. Paul Cockshott is good for economic theory. Most Marxist-Leninists these days write on sites where anyone can publish or are on YouTube, since getting yourself published when you're advocating violent revolution against capitalists, which include the publisher isn't exactly easy.

[Anonymous No.12518935]

>>12518917
Although there are some scientist and logicians who write about and study Dialectical Materialism, since if you remove the Marxism from it (which is a bit silly but whatever), dialectics at its core is just a valid form of logic and it predates Marx and even Hegel. Jay Gould for example used it in his study of punctuated equilibrium in evolution. Of course he got bombarded with accusations of being a soviet spy by ignorant people.

[Anonymous No.12518978]

>>12518632
capitalism doesn't "make culture" you fucking retard. it's a dynamic system. culture makes ideology makes culture and so on.

[Anonymous No.12519073]

>>12518978
Capitalism is the economic base. The base and superstructure reinforce each other that is true, but the base is dominant. You can't change the superstructure without changing the base.

[Anonymous No.12519081]

>>12519073
>>12518978
Are commies really this dense?

[Anonymous No.12519094]

>>12519081
Go on then Mr. Darkweb of intellectualism, don't leave me hanging.

[Anonymous No.12519109]

>>12519094
https://psychcentral.com/lib/15-common-cognitive-distortions/

[Anonymous No.12519208]

>>12519073
there is no "dominance" retard. get rid of this base and superstructure trash, throw it all out the window. then read Althusser.

[Anonymous No.12519214]

>>12519109
communism isn't humanitarianism.

[Anonymous No.12519222]

>>12519208
No. Base and Superstructure are the most scientific way to explain things. Stop being an idealist.

[Anonymous No.12519224]

>>12519214
No you

[Anonymous No.12519226]

>>12519222
Dialectic isn't science, it's just bad rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.12519233]

>>12517123
Liberal Democracy doesn't work.

[Anonymous No.12519237]

>>12519226
Dialectics is logic, dialectical materialism is science.

[Anonymous No.12519254]

>>12518816
lol of course the braindead tankie thinks marx is hard to read.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oEULhtSEDhe No.12519262]

>>12519233
Because capitalism corrupts democracy, no mention everything else

[Anonymous No.12519275]

>>12519254
I didn't say he was too hard to read, I said he's long to read and you need a notebook, which you do speed reader.

[Anonymous No.12519277]

>>12517123
1. The American Revolution was before the French Revolution
2. The English didn't have a revolution, but a Civil War.
3. The "liberals" won each of these and the liberal mindset has remained dominant ever since.
4. These nations never collapsed
5. Nobody likes Catholics except Catholics, so the bloodshed of Cromwell and the French Republic are left relatively forgotten.

[Anonymous No.12519302]

>>12519237
Dialectics is not logic. Any given position has more than one contradictory position, and any two conflicting positions can be synthesized in more than one way. Dialectic is simply Socratic Dialogue (a rhetorical method) written to be more assertive.

[Anonymous No.12519312]

>>12519302
Yes it is. It is accepted and logic and no-one can find any flaw in it. Marxism-Leninism is the ultimate science.

>Any given position has more than one contradictory position, and any two conflicting positions can be synthesized in more than one way
Well yeah capitalism has numerous contradictions. No-one disputes that.

[Anonymous No.12519339]

>>12519312
What is science anyway?

[Anonymous No.12519383]

>>12519339
Science is the scientific procedure. Its just that bourgeois scientists are bound and gagged by their masters.

[Anonymous No.12519385]

>>12519339
repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Anonymous No.12519393]

>>12519383
Okay, right, but scientifically, how do you show that matter is primary, and the ideal is secondary?

[Anonymous No.12519400]

not one that is rational at this time.

[Anonymous No.12519458]

>>12519393
You can't. Its an assumption. Its an assumption that science and marxism have in common. Its impossible to deduce that which is beyond us. If we were able to deduce it it, we would know its laws and it would be material. This is why religion doesn't contradict marxism.

[Anonymous No.12519577]

>>12519385
huh...

[Anonymous No.12519644]

>>12518858
Care to explain? I'd be more likely to read both if I knew the correlation. Sounds interesting to draw a connection between the two.

[Anonymous No.12519663]

>>12519644
it's just using ethnocentric ideology to justify colonialism. and also correlated with the commercialization of culture and the growth of consumerism.

[Anonymous No.12519676]

Capitalism has evolved as human society has evolved, the only way to stop it is to rearrange our society in order to benefit one another rather than the few. But there are far too many people now for that to happen

[Anonymous No.12519719]

>>12519644
Well Mussolini was a socialist. He was part of the second international. What you've got to realize about WW1 is that Marxists back then were naive. They didn't know a lot about imperialism or just how violent and inhumane capitalism would grow up to be. They thought of themselves as swashbuckling robin hood figures, no-one could foresee the sheer amount of bloodshed and murder on an industrial scale the 20th century would lead to. WW1 was welcomed by many people, and the second international got sucked into the jingoism and nationalist rhetoric, and among them was Mussolini, a socialist with a bright future, but who got dragged into the whirlpool of nationalism, like most of the second international.

[Anonymous No.12519735]

>>12519719
What a horrifically naive and dangerous belief. I bet you believe real communism has never been tried.

[Anonymous No.12519737]

>>12518627
It's basically the stoned ape theory but with communism

[Anonymous No.12519750]

>>12519237
Wissenschaft isn't the same as science as most people know it in English

[Anonymous No.12519754]

>>12519735
Real communism has been tried and still is being tried and worked and still does work.

[Anonymous No.12519755]

>>12519735
real communism was tried in soviet russia, china and north korea and all failed

[Anonymous No.12519764]

What problems do commies even have with capitalism? Life now is better than ever.

[Anonymous No.12519771]

>>12519755
Wrong, they all exceeded expectations.

[Anonymous No.12519775]

>>12519764
Communists fetishize manual labor and communal living, but think God has nothing to do with happiness. They think that if we eliminate the idea of private property, people will suddenly live in harmony and love.

[Anonymous No.12519781]

>>12519771
Only because they copied capitalism and just called themselves communist

[Anonymous No.12519787]

>>12519775
class owned capital, not property. Get it right

[Anonymous No.12519795]

>>12519781
>they copied capitalism
Absolute bollocks.

[Anonymous No.12519801]

>>12516422

There is communism but Americans (and really neoliberals in general) are too stupid to know anything more than "USSR KILLED FORTY TRILLION PEOPLE AND THE DINOSAURS STALIN SENT A DOG TO SPACE INSTEAD OF FEEDING PEOPLE REEEEEEEEE I WILL BE A MILLIONAIRE"

[Anonymous No.12519807]

>>12519755
the 'people' have never owned or controlled the means of prodcution and never will

Stalin and co. larping as revolutionaries whatever, it's still just rule by the few

[Anonymous No.12519811]

>>12519801
I get that you hate your parents, but you don't have to blame the jews.

[Anonymous No.12519821]

>>12519811

I don't blame the Jews because I'm not a simpleton. I blame the source: capitalism. I also don't hate my parents.

[Anonymous No.12519828]

>>12519807
Every single "communist" leader has been a petite bourgeoisie intellectual angry that they had no influence.

[Anonymous No.12519835]

>>12519828
The entire ideology of marxism is just bourgeoisie LARPing as humanitarians

[Anonymous No.12519836]

>>12519821
Who do you think the capitalists are? Who financed industrialism? Who lent the money to buy the capital? You obviously and blatantly blame the jews. It's pathetic really how you do, and then to lie about it also.

[Anonymous No.12519839]

>>12519755
>soviet russia, china and north korea
2/3 of those are still alive and kicking.

[Anonymous No.12519842]

>>12519835
It's really very disgusting.

[Anonymous No.12519851]

>>12519836

The capitalists are not limited to Jews. Please, stop getting your information from /pol/ infographics with frogs on them.

[Anonymous No.12519861]

>>12519851
That is not where I get it from. I get it from the very obvious and undeniable fact that charging interest was illegal in Europe. It was only by banking with Jewish bankers and the invention of insurance that any of these societal changes were possible. I'm not a fascist. I'm not anti-Jew. I'm not any kind of socialist. You cannot deny that your position is all-but explicitly anti-Jewish.

[Anonymous No.12519867]

>>12516422
Well..

[Anonymous No.12519877]

>>12516422
First you must ask in future perfect. Will there *have* been no alternative?

[Anonymous No.12519879]

>>12518838
Which?

[Anonymous No.12519884]

>>12519879
The Order of Things