/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12503769]

>"Could this young Dutchman, hailed as a visionary, galvanise the left with his radical plan for a borderless future in which we are all paid for working less?"

>"Rutger Bregman is a 28-year-old Dutchman whose book, Utopia for Realists, has taken Holland by storm and could yet revitalise progressive thought around the globe. His solutions are quite simple and staunchly set against current trends: we should institute a universal basic income for everyone that covers minimum living expenses – say around £12,000 a year; the working week should be shortened to 15 hours; borders should be opened and migrants allowed to move wherever they choose."

>"If that all sounds like fantasy politics, then Bregman has assembled a wealth of empirical evidence to make his case. Better than that, though, it is not a dry, statistical analysis – although he doesn’t shy from solid data – but a book written with verve, wit and imagination. The effect is charmingly persuasive, even when you can’t quite believe what you’re reading."

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/feb/26/rutger-bregman-utopia-for-realists-interview-universal-basic-income

Holy Yaaaas. Has anyone read his book Utopia for Realists?

[Anonymous No.12503777]

>>12503769
>Utopia: an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect.

[Anonymous No.12503782]

Sounds Gay just make communism at that point

[Anonymous No.12503804]

>>12503782
you need a strong central government and borders for any realistic form of gommunism, to protect against piggy influence

[Anonymous No.12503813]

>>12503782
This pretty much. His programme will never be instituted democratically, so might as well go full tankie. I thirst for the blood of the rich

[Anonymous No.12503832]

>listening to this whitesplaining mansplaining nerd
He can't even figure out how to dress himself

[Anonymous No.12503837]

(((Bregman))) Open borders haha

[Anonymous No.12503841]

>>12503837
He's a Protestant lad.

[Anonymous No.12503852]

>>12503841
((((((((((Protestant))))))))))))))

[Anonymous No.12503861]

>>12503769
I don't even understand how this would work.

Migrants flood first world countries, the basic income means taxes must be high, people working only 15 hours producing less goods and so less money, therefore less taxes. The basic income will fail, the migrants will either leave or absolutely wreck shit, and it'll be worse than before.

How does this work?

[Anonymous No.12503868]

> borders should be opened and migrants allowed to move wherever they choose."
they literally cannot stop cucking themselves over there

[Anonymous No.12503873]

>>12503868
>>12503861
Everyone in the world living on 12000 or less is a fucking steal for the oligarch class.

[Anonymous No.12503886]

>>12503769
I actually bought the book last year, when I was feeling particularly self-destructive last year. Now it's buried deep in my backlog.
Did anybody read it, is it worth a damn?

[Anonymous No.12503892]

>>12503873
Explain?

[Anonymous No.12503927]

>>12503804
Nah mate, you misunderstand, I meant that it sounds like Succdumbery for the 21st Century, and that point we should just go full tankie.
>>12503813
I hear you can make Rose from Looted Champagne and the Landlord's wife.

[Anonymous No.12503942]

>>12503769
Anyone who shits on the rich is based in my book

[Anonymous No.12503960]

>>12503861
>people working only 15 hours producing less goods and so less money
The idea is that you have more people dividing the work, meaning less unemployment, more free time for workers, and no change to production.
2 people doing 15 hours weeks instead of 1 doing 30.

[Anonymous No.12503976]

Ga naar bed Rutger

[Anonymous No.12504089]

>Dutch
>Left

[Anonymous No.12504109]

>>12503960
and why the fuck would the vast majority of people work the bottom-feeder positions? i can understand why you'd work if you're a writer or whatever, but most jobs aren't pleasant

[Anonymous No.12504126]

>>12504109
Because universal income provides you with a pasta/rice diet and a small roof but that's it. If you want to have a comfortable life -vacations, large house, varied food, paid porn, etc, you'll have to work.
I haven't read OP's book but universal income isn't a new idea and that's how it usually goes, so I assume it's the same here.

[Anonymous No.12504149]

>>12504126
But where does the money come from to pay people UBI? Keeping the fiat currency system intact is the problem

[Anonymous No.12504154]

>>12503769
Looks like a pseud

[Anonymous No.12504157]

>>12503769
I don't know what I'm going to do if the Guardian sets up a paywall lads. The shitpost well would run awfully dry.

[Anonymous No.12504177]

>>12504157
Umm how about pay for your bloody content!?

Great journalism isn't free you know.

[Anonymous No.12504182]

>>12503769
So migrants will be, as usual, the only real beneficiaries of this "utopia".

>be African nigger
>be like "Imma gonna go to Yurop. Dayum, dem whiteys has dem programs, free monies and young white bitches"
>proceed to flood every prosperous country
>prosperous countries collapse because their welfare system is overburdened by migrants
>migrants just shrug and move to second-next prosperous countries
>rinse and repeat until final collapse of civilization

Not having borders is such a genius idea. I wonder why our ancestors have never thought about it in thousands of years of recorded history.

[Anonymous No.12504201]

>>12504149
In my country (France), universal income is more and more regarded as a viable possibility (depending on how it's done) by people from both political sides because it would allow to suppress all the other wellfare checks -and the administrations that run them. The savings in operating costs from the simplification are apparently enough to finance a form of basic income.
and ideally, by getting the state's hands on the estimated 80-100 billions lost annualy in tax evasion.
But again, I don't know what OP's books actually proposes. But that's how the discussion goes atm here.

[Anonymous No.12504209]

>>12504182
White people should start moving to the third world and be on permanent safari/glamping basically recolonization.. Like going "off world"..

[Anonymous No.12504218]

>>12504201
That sounds a little better. Most jobs are so redundant and practically obsolete. People don't realize that the state forces the rich to put the poor to work. Work is a method of behavior control.

[Anonymous No.12504232]

Gross world product is
77,868,000,000,000
population is
7,530,000,000
this leaves per person:
$ 10300

That nigger can't even into basic math, and this would mean nobody could earn any additional income; it's the most unworkable socialist scenario ever suggested.

[Anonymous No.12504246]

Honestly, if a proposal for a utopian style of government doesn't directly attempt to tackle the fact that the most capable and intelligent people are actively discouraged from participating in government and encouraged to participate in capitalist enterprises then it will never be able to truly deal with the exploitation of the lower class. I've been on both sides of government work - creating solutions for the government and creating solutions for businesses in highly regulated sectors - and the ONLY thing government regulation can reliably accomplish is creating a new market for businesses that can help you circumvent or avoid the regulation.
The more complicated and wide-reaching the regulation, the easier it is to get around and find loopholes because of the pure fact that the people looking for the loopholes are smarter than the people trying to write regulation without loopholes.

[Anonymous No.12504255]

>>12504218
>Most jobs are so redundant and practically obsolete
Yes, that is also one of the issues basic income is designed to alleviate. Damn robots stealing our jobs.

[Anonymous No.12504262]

>>12504209
Second wave colonization is actually a magnificent idea

[Anonymous No.12504267]

>>12503960
What about housing? Are we all supposed to share 1 room apartment blocks till we die? There physically isn't space

[Anonymous No.12504273]

>>12504255
>alleviate
If by alleviate you mean maintain an itinerant "gig" working class living hand to mouth on 1000/month + whatever they can hussle up then yes it is a solution for the rich to keep most of the world's land, resources and pleasures within a small number of hands without having to actively kill a few billion people (because there simply is no reliable way of doing that without risking their own necks--yet)

[Anonymous No.12504277]

>>12503769
Is this what passes as sense of humour in the Netherlands?

[Anonymous No.12504295]

>>12504273
That is a viable critique of basic income. And also why basic income is getting more and more accepted in ultra-liberal circles, as they've gotten over their initial rejection of how leftist the idea sounds and realized it's an excellent tool to solidify precarity.

[Anonymous No.12504304]

>>12504295
Ugh why was i born on this hell planet anon?

[Anonymous No.12504309]

“I’ve heard for three years that many of my ideas are unrealistic and unreasonable and that we can’t afford them,” he says, by way of preamble to a more comprehensive reply. “And the simple answer is ‘Oh, you want to stick to the status quo? How’s that been working out?’”

Literally doesn't even have an argument against the fact it's impossible.

[Anonymous No.12504313]

>>12504304
You can always opt out anon

[Anonymous No.12504318]

>>12504232
lol did you just google all that to try to one up a dude who’s dedicated some time into running the numbers? peak arrogance

>>12504246
agreed

>>12504262
unnecessary. you’re misunderstanding the scope of first wave colonialism.

>>12504267
naive. have you been to the midwest?
>inb4 muh trees

this guy can easily be dismissed along the lines Uncle Nick has set out, namely A). He’s late to the game B). Totalizing theories no longer work C). This is a perfect example of basic bitch academic polisci that has proven incompetent in dealing with modernity.

[Anonymous No.12504409]

>>12504318
I just went to check how realistic his 12000 pound per year number was.
Turns out it was utter nonsense, and considering how easy this was to check it does not make me hopeful the book has any content of quality.

[Anonymous No.12504440]

>>12503769
It's always amusing seeing that the chief proponents of socialization are the most oversocialized, overeducated, and purely rational people on the planet. They don't want socialization because they care about others, they just care about themselves. They're too pathetic to compete with actual men so in order to optimize their chances at prosperity they need to redistribute it. It's like the meme with redistribution of women to incels but for people without souls.

[Anonymous No.12504459]

>>12504318
Yikes

[Anonymous No.12504519]

>we should institute a universal basic income for everyone that covers minimum living expenses – say around £12,000 a year; the working week should be shortened to 15 hours; borders should be opened and migrants allowed to move wherever they choose
Whether you think this is a morally correct position does not matter. This isn't even possible to do. It's stupid to try and make the world into something that is not possible.

[Anonymous No.12504531]

>>12504440
tell that to guerillas living in the jungle or even the yellow vest protestors. a lot of people 'can't compete' in a system that is plainly oppressive. whether or not the people who fight will fight for the bookish idea of socialism is another idea. in fact the soviet union was a success in my opinion. sure, people died, but people will always die. at least with the USSR we got to see the world as the workers, the rioters and looters would have run it.

[Anonymous No.12504541]

>>12503769
>Handbook for reforming the most complex system we've managed to produce as a species (modern nation-state)
>Not thousands of pages
Yeah if you're going to propose some massive policy changes to improve this fucking rube goldberg nightmare you better be a team of actuaries with supercomputing powers or else I'm not going to listen to you. Especially if you look like a redhead newmale c u kk

[Anonymous No.12504577]

>>12504519
Have you even read the book?

He has studied this subject for literally years, and backs up his arguments with hard date. There's no arguing against that.

[Anonymous No.12504584]

>>12504531
>t. Completely out of touch bugman
The modern age is coming to an end and people like you will be burned at the stake for your transgressions.

[Anonymous No.12504587]

>>12503769
this reads like something a mentally ill undergrad who has been sheltered all his life would propose

[Anonymous No.12504593]

>>12504309
>How’s that been working out?
Pretty great to be honest.

[Anonymous No.12504605]

>>12504584
>loser COPE

[Anonymous No.12504609]

>>12503769
>Utopia for Realists
This book is silly.
How can you overlook the fact that with open border you'd have a cultural clash that would be insane?
Flood a democracy with people who believe it should be a religious state?
Flood countries with 100-year-old legacies of education with people who have little or no education and who don't give a shit about your way of life?

For whom would this provide a desirable outcome?

[Anonymous No.12504611]

>>12504440
I think it falls more into the "But I can do it right this time!" trap.

[Anonymous No.12504620]

>>12504609
What cultural clash? Why would a religion of peace and tolerance would want to clash with anyone?

[Anonymous No.12504621]

>>12504584
>burned at the stake for your transgressions
Will the new world be governed by your Quran? Is that how you see it?

[Anonymous No.12504627]

>>12504609
But water finds its level, anon.

[Anonymous No.12504629]

>>12504620
mfw

[Anonymous No.12504633]

>>12504609
But anon think of all the refugee surgeons and engineers we could put to work

[Anonymous No.12504635]

>>12504627
explain how that would apply to cultures in this situation

[Anonymous No.12504644]

yes to ubi
yes to drastically shortening the work-week
probably no to absolutely open borders, though obviously these social benefits will be extremely attractive to outsiders from poor countries. solution is investment in these countries exceeding china's own efforts, without the conditional attachments

[Anonymous No.12504656]

>>12503769
YAAASSSS!!!

LET THEM ALL IN!

[Anonymous No.12504665]

Ubi is peak neoliberalism and means the rich keeping the poor satisfied under their boot.

[Anonymous No.12504680]

>>12503769
LOL yes i'm sure his face wil one day be on all our neetbux

[Anonymous No.12504681]

>>12504177
((( journalism)))

[Anonymous No.12504683]

>>12503769
Holland at it’s narcissistic worst. They think they can show the world how it’s supposed to be done. Were all stupid barbarians in their eyes.

[Anonymous No.12504686]

>>12503769
>Reddit: The Society
Is it possible to have anything worse than capitalism and communism combined? Apparently.

[Anonymous No.12504694]

STOP
GOING TO
WORK

[Anonymous No.12504697]

>>12504318
>naive. have you been to the midwest?

There aren't a large number of jobs in the midwest, they are on the coasts, which is where people will want to move

[Anonymous No.12504703]

>>12504644
>solution is investment in these countries exceeding china's own efforts, without the conditional attachments
>solution
About 1/4 of the world is Muslim. Mostly in rather poor countries (with a few super-rich at the top).
How do you think the world would change if all of those people/countries had the economic power of the West?
srs question

[Anonymous No.12504724]

>>12504703
if the west is any indication they will all be transexual neopagans on hoverboards in less than a century...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................and that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.12504748]

>>12504694
More like
STOP GOING TO WORK
DRINK ONIONS
WATCH YOUR GIRLFRIEND GET FUCKED BY REFUGEE NIGGERS

[Anonymous No.12504763]

>>12504748
hey dude cool it with the N word on 4channel

[Anonymous No.12504765]

>So it's communism with open borders?
>"No it's an economic system where wealth and resources are equally distributed throughout the entire population and there are no borders"

>Supported by "Empirical sources"
>There's already a vast amount of evidence that communism is a complete failure
How do the Europeans get meme'd into this stuff? Their right has America's sloppy seconds on Steve Bannon and now the left has this goofy shit.

[Anonymous No.12504769]

>>12504724
1000/10

[Anonymous No.12504783]

>>12504703
i do think islam is a challenge to a peaceful global future, but i also think much of the radicalism of the young muslim men (and women, to a lesser degree) stems from a modern problem, which is a lack of resources and prospects for any kind of future. give them that, and their verve for fighting will be redirected toward prosocial aims.
this is oversimplifying the matter, but i don't think there's anything special about the ideological structure of islam that will protect it from the weakening effects of general prosperity and secular engagements.

[Anonymous No.12504789]

why are europeans actively attempting to destroy what's left of their continent?

[Anonymous No.12504796]

>>12504789
Only the Dutch with fantastic daydreaming and experiments

[Anonymous No.12504810]

>>12504763
Fuck you, nigger!

[Anonymous No.12504819]

>>12503873
Do marxists and leftists think rich people have a room filled with all their cash? Everything is in stocks or investment funds, if you implement a 15 hour work week youre gonna collapse the economy and all that money evaporate before you even confiscate a dime.

[Anonymous No.12504831]

>>12504783
>this is oversimplifying the matter, but i don't think there's anything special about the ideological structure of islam that will protect it from the weakening effects of general prosperity and secular engagements.
how about a disdain for democracy?
flood Western countries with great numbers of people from non-complimentary cultures and all they have to do is vote to completely change everything.
Imagine this newly arrived population voting in a government that rejigs the country as a religious kingdom.

Tell me it couldn't happen.

[Anonymous No.12504833]

>>12503769
I think our cult of technology, which was invented to efficiently shuttle VC dollars into startup scammer pockets, has spread so addictively that every single individual believes we're living in an "unprecedented time" and the time is now for a revolutionary, completely counterintuitive structure based on random emotional needs.

[Anonymous No.12504844]

>>12504819
I don't think money matters to rich people. I think the economy is one of the most ingenious systems of social engineering ever dreamt. All the people who Prep for when "shit hits the fan" the rich basically have that but on a supreme level. Putting people to work is a way to keep them from eating eachother. The dream is to sterilize us, kill us off, etc. But the Will to Fuck is too strong. Eros. It is God. And I think God will win in the end.

[Anonymous No.12504858]

>>12504831
if you recall my post, i was skeptical of the open borders proposal
the pull from western countries is their wealth, the push from other countries their poverty. make those countries wealthy, the push factor is eliminated.

[Anonymous No.12504862]

>>12504109
Why wouldn't they? Its 15 hours a week and most people already have shiity jobs already so they already do it just for more hours

[Anonymous No.12504874]

Basic income isn’t a new idea. Give us that and EU borders defended by an EU army.

[Anonymous No.12504943]

>>12504874
As an american taxpayer I am 100% in favor of an EU army. So fucking tired of paying to defend you spineless fucks.

[Anonymous No.12504974]

>>12503861
It doesn't lol
It's just some ginger bitch's revamp of utopian socialism for the "woke culture" demographic

[Anonymous No.12505000]

>>12504635
We should all become rootless mutts swimming in a sea of neatly commodified and prepackaged "ethnic" food & art and "traditional" paraphernalia.

[Anonymous No.12505048]

>borders should be opened and migrants allowed to move wherever they choose

is it satire?

[Anonymous No.12505072]

>>12503769
So basically get rid of all work entirely. Whats the deal with this?

[Anonymous No.12505115]

>>12504683
>Holland

[Anonymous No.12505119]

>>12503769
>The effect is charmingly persuasive
lmao, so in other words, it makes no sense but it sounds nice and fits in with the reviewers ideals so actually it's convincing.

[Anonymous No.12505121]

>>12504858
>make those countries wealthy, the push factor is eliminated.
not if it is part of your identity to see the world embrace the same form of thinking as your culture/religion.

[Anonymous No.12505127]

>15-hour work week means 50% less productive potential on anything not fully maintained by automation
>hence less goods, more need for imports
>UBI means high taxation, more expensive exports, less competitiveness
>high taxation also means capital flight

so they're basically setting themselves to become Venezuela 2.0: NEETs On Food Coupons edition

[Anonymous No.12505175]

Open borders is the line in the sand that'd make me take up arms. It'd bring about more disorder, violence and unrest than anything we've seen before.

With UBI I used to be skeptical but I've found the idea of "minimum basic income" to be compelling, with what others have noted regarding reducing/replacing other forms of welfare or getting rid of the 'welfare trap' (If you make, let's say 20,999$ a year you get welfare. If you make 21,001$ a year you get no welfare). It'd require thinking out but I wonder about a gradient scale from that welfare threshhold. If the threshold is 21,000 a year then you still get a lot of welfare if you make 24,000 a year, you get less welfare if you make 29,000 a year, you get very little welfare if you make 35,000 a year, you get no welfare if you make 40k a year. Not those specific numbers, just that idea of making the loss of welfare a gradient scale from the threshold point instead of a zero sum yes/no.

[Anonymous No.12505309]

at this point leftists should just self-identify as "immigrationists" since socialism seems to be the least relevant aspect of their ideology. if a prophet told them we could have socialism but the only way to do so if we restrict movement to some degree, they'd reject it. i really think it comes down to them just secretly hating proles and not wanting to vindicate any of their ideas and values or be associated with them, however loosely. they only like leftism because it's associated with being a college educated smart-y pants. that's it.

[Anonymous No.12505341]

>>12504874
>Unironically desire NWO army
You deserve to lose your borders and get flooded by shitskins by having no sense of sovereignty
>>12504943
You are a traitor and deserve to be gassed.

[Anonymous No.12505647]

>>12504318
You sound like a pseud and your shit is all retarded

[Anonymous No.12506053]

>>12505115
Is there a more degenerate, soulless nation in western christendom?

[Anonymous No.12506199]

>>12503861
>How does this work?
It doesn't.

But I want to see this implemented somewhere in the next five years just to watch the bloodshed.

[Anonymous No.12506218]

>>12503841
Lol that actually does explain it

[Anonymous No.12506262]

>>12504109
>why the fuck would the vast majority of people work the bottom-feeder positions?
They already do. Are you that removed from reality?
There are more shitty jobs than nice jobs and most people work shitty jobs because they can’t do any better or they’re complacent.

[Anonymous No.12506611]

>>12504943
Defending? All nato has done was carry out your oil wars. US military is a parasite.

[Anonymous No.12506619]

>>12505341
Eu army is coming. We must defend the last bastion of sanity. Be grateful instead. The last white beacon must not fall. Fuck nato and fuck Russia

[Sean Goonan No.12506681]

>>12503832
Is that supposed to be your avatar in that picture, buddy?

[Anonymous No.12506693]

>>12506262
I think his point is; why not just settle for the minimum wage instead scrubbing toilets?
It will be harder to compell people to do necessary albeit unpleasant work.

[Anonymous No.12506705]

>>12505115
>poltardian rant based on wikipedia and hearsay
cringe

[Anonymous No.12506719]

>>12504874
EU was a bad idea.
I was for it at first, but it is ruining the individuality of the member countries.

[Sean Goonan No.12506721]

>>12506705
Not seeing any substantial counterarguments of any sort there, buddy.

[Anonymous No.12506747]

>>12506719
No it’s not.

[Anonymous No.12506757]

>>12506721
>counterarguments to unsubstantiated sperging
I know they didn't tell you this on your favorite political subreddit, but merely expressing an opinion is not an argument.

[Anonymous No.12506774]

>>12505115
This is purely anecdotal but the only person I've known from the netherlands is the most fucked up girl I've known in my life.

[Anonymous No.12506777]

>>12506747
What's good about it, aside from economic benefit?

[Anonymous No.12506779]

>>12505309
they should just label themselves as corporate dick-suckers because that's all they do

[Anonymous No.12506783]

>>12506721
No need. Dutch arrogance and xenophobia is famous

[Anonymous No.12506799]

>>12506774
Femke?

>>12506777
It secures our continued existence as free and self determined Europeans. At a cost. Better than oblivion.

[Anonymous No.12506800]

>>12503813
jeff bezos is more useful to other people and civilization genrally, than you will ever be in your life. given to choice to kill bezos or you, i choose you.

[Anonymous No.12506813]

>>12505309
>suggests UBI, ultra-short workday and unlimited immigration
>reee he's only about immigration
The absolute state of self-awareness.

[Anonymous No.12507075]

>>12506757
Are you Dutch or do you holiday in Amsterdam for the weed and prostitutes? You have clearly taken too many drugs there and it has damaged your rational faculties. The country is the decadent self-destructive logical end point of unrestrained enlightenment thought.

[Anonymous No.12507097]

>>12506611
lets see if you keep this fantasy good guy of the world roleplay up after you guys have your own military to deal with complex violent situations.

[Anonymous No.12507155]

>>12506800
Bezos is useful on what basis?

[Anonymous No.12507171]

>>12506800
Who said kill Bezos? Take a lot of his money and redistribute it. He doesn't need another villa in Tuscany

[Anonymous No.12507173]

>>12507097
Wanting to be world cop isn’t a European aspiration. We’ll deter attacks, and not have wars against each other. Perhaps continue minor interventions here or there around Europe.

[Anonymous No.12507197]

>>12507173
sure man. whatever. sounds like the wishful thinking of someone who believes that they can "deter attacks" and "avoid wars" without getting involved in some grey area shit overseas.

[Anonymous No.12507324]

>>12507075
>thinks restating his shit opinion in different verbiage makes for an argument
>thinks all of Amsterdam is 3.5 streets in De Wallen
>thinks red lights and coffee shops are frequented by locals and not occupied 24/7 by British stag parties and dudeweed 18 year old foreign tourists
>thinks accusing others' of philistinism while demonstrating utter ignorance of the very culture he's discussing and denigrating one of the greatest visual art traditions in history to "florid windmill decoration" makes for a great display of intellectual prowess and sophistication
I'm sorry, bubba, no matter how frantically you'll go through thesaurus in search of new exciting epithets to pass off as arguments, it'll never conceal the childish cluelessness of an inept angry flyover confusing real places and people with his own silly fantasies and hastily erected quixotesqe windmills based on hilariously and grotesquely misconstrued pieces of irrelevant trivia and bitter polyp rage. Double points for screencapping your own post, though. Must have been the up(you) high point of your 4chan career.

[Anonymous No.12507429]

>>12504246
>and the ONLY thing government regulation can reliably accomplish is creating a new market for businesses that can help you circumvent or avoid the regulation.
Which is why you need a system in place wherein those who attempt to subvert the system are killed. You can't systematize that, but like pornography, you know it when you see it.
>Neofeudal revolution when?

[Anonymous No.12507439]

>>12504409
What are you basing this off of?

[Anonymous No.12507458]

>>12504783
>which is a lack of resources and prospects for any kind of future
Literally castrate them then.

[Anonymous No.12507499]

>>12503777
Blessed anon discovers the irony contained within a title

[Anonymous No.12507524]

Society would collapse if people only worked 15 hours a week, even if across all workers the total man hours stayed steady

[Anonymous No.12507534]

>Bro, just, like, get free money
>And stop working
>And let your lands and histories fall to migrant hordes who care for nothing
>Like, who needs discipline, morality, a work ethic, or The Other?

Europeans have continued to be wellsprings of awful, awful ideals. It's like every generation makes it their jobs to ruin everything that ever came before them.

[Anonymous No.12507578]

>>12507534
t. cage waging mutt

[Anonymous No.12507696]

>>12504577
>and backs up his arguments with hard date.
I'm sure this is bait anyway, but

[Anonymous No.12507734]

>>12503769
There are two things I can't stand: those who are intolerant of others' cultures, and the Dutch.

[Anonymous No.12507758]

>>12506779
Sorry have you met the right and centrists? The real left loathes corporations

[Anonymous No.12507759]

>>12507734
For me it's NIGGERS and JANNIES.

[Anonymous No.12507761]

one good thing about warren and aoc making big noise about high taxes is that it got the fed to stop fucking raising interest rates, stupid fucking powel was trying to tank the market so trump would lose in 2020 but after he saw the reality that warren or harris will get in and backed by ppl like aoc and raise the fuck out of taxes on upper income brackets, suddenly powel decided that interests rates "will remain stable for the foreseeable future" and the market is starting to recover already (facebook up 13% in after hours trading, amzn and aapl both up solid 5%) fucking never trump establishment shills, but thank you based aoc for putting the fear of communism into the heart of the bitch ass fed

[Anonymous No.12507780]

>>12504309

>How's that been working out?

He tweeted from his brand new iphone connected to his 5ghz wifi in his $2000 a month loft in the trendy part of town.

[Anonymous No.12507809]

All the good marxists know UBI is a neoliberal scheme to do away with the welfare state.

Try again neoliberals. We're always 10 streets ahead

[Anonymous No.12507835]

>>12507761
lmao

[Anonymous No.12507842]

This man is doing more to accelerate the coming collapse than anyone on this board and all you bitches (like: >>12503861) are fucking clueless LMAO

[Anonymous No.12507878]

>>12507809
>not enjoying the welfare state and leaving the next generation with a bankrupt system

[Anonymous No.12507908]

>>12507734
based film taste desu

[Anonymous No.12507924]

>>12507908
yeah baby

[Anonymous No.12507960]

>>12507842
Who or how is irrelevant tho

[Anonymous No.12508077]

>>12503769
>I’ve heard for years that my ideas are unrealistic. You want to stick to the status quo? How’s that working out? - Rutger Bregman
Fucking great.
- t. neoliberal

[Anonymous No.12508110]

>>12507761
the recession will come, regardless of 'monetary policy'
go bear gang, short everything

[Anonymous No.12508224]

>>12503769

[Anonymous No.12508274]

Go away Rutger Bregman, but until you do:

>>12503769
>>"Rutger Bregman is a 28-year-old Dutchman whose book, Utopia for Realists, has taken Holland by storm and could yet revitalise progressive thought around the globe. His solutions are quite simple and staunchly set against current trends: we should institute a universal basic income for everyone that covers minimum living expenses – say around £12,000 a year; the working week should be shortened to 15 hours; borders should be opened and migrants allowed to move wherever they choose."

It's literally just the kind of globally-integrated economic liberalism "the left" spent decades decrying. That "the left" could endorse this position speaks to their current deeply schizophrenic thinking.

UBI is a terrible idea. It is those with an increasingly unequal control of capital paying off the rest of society to keep them placated and content with the state of affairs. It is also wildly unaffordable with the current generous welfare states and publicly-funded services of most western countries --- and that's kind of the point, because eventually you slash those things and become some libertarian ideal of a country, which is why economic liberals and libertarians are the ones intellectually justifying this.

sage in all fields

[Anonymous No.12508640]

>>12507878
>that pic
wew that's like 9gag level of based

[Anonymous No.12508671]

>>12503960
Why are they going to employ and train quadruple the employees?

[Anonymous No.12509046]

>basic income
woke
>15h work weeks
woke
>open borders
broke

you can't have a turbo-welfare state with open borders, it's bound to destroy itself or collapse in civil war; either go ancap darwinism like in and let everyone in (like in the US) or turbo-welfare and keep everyone out - simple as that

[Anonymous No.12509145]

>>12507324
fucking based