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/lit/ - Literature

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12491650 No.12491650 [Reply] [Original]

I'm halfway trough this. I've loved it so far but how am I supposed to keep reading this piece of shit after Natasha cucks /ourguy/ Andrei?.

>> No.12491695
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12491695

>>12491650
>even the most wholesome pure angel is a hussy
What's the point of living

>> No.12491728

>>12491650
All great fiction has at least one cuck.

>> No.12491751

Just wait.

>> No.12491760

>>12491751
Right. Draws nigh Borodino..

>> No.12491793

>>12491650
Because irl Anatol gets all the pussy except now Natasha is actually allowed to go elope with him

>> No.12491805

>>12491793
Makes no difference. Prince A's the Goat.

>> No.12491839

>>12491805
Prince Andrei is a great character and imo even more than Pierre, Natasha, Marie and whoever has the best arc of the story, particularly the little device he uses for him involving the sky opening new chapters in his life strikes me as more closely approximating the almost arbitrary and vague yet ineffably meaningful way those feelings happen irl than the more explicit trajectories of the others. Though the bit where he sees Anatol wounded is kind of on the nose.

I was just commenting on the subtext of having the Anatol affair which for Tolstoy is pretty clearly 'women cannot be trusted to choose for themselves'. Youll note Marie also falls for Anatol at a different part of the book

Anna karenina is a lot less heavy handed about this subject, Vronsky is nowhere near the caricature that Anatol is

>> No.12491871
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12491871

>yfw Pierre walks into the middle of the battle of Borodino

>> No.12492247

What the fuck is Tolstoy's problem? He has no interest in writing about anything else other than cuckoldry?

>> No.12492260

>>12492247
Been an obsession of literature since literally the Iliad. Chivalric European culture glorified the fuck out of romantic cuckoldry and we never stopped operating within that context

>> No.12492272

>Every "literary" work is about cucking
I only read wholesome books for this reason. I just don't want to read about that kind of thing.

>> No.12492367

>>12491839
One begins either to pity or even to 'like' Vronsky almost in direct proportion as one begins to tire of Anna (though her fate IS pitiable.. ...did /you know that Tolstoy too died at a train station?) which is genius on Tolstoy's part because it almost magically reflects Anna's tiring of herself (this feeling in the reader).
My point with Prince Andrei is that I'd be his character 1000 times before I'd be Anatole's, whatever his successes.
But to me the genius of W&P centers on the character of Nikolai- Tolstoy's showing [us] how a very believing and decent young boy becomes a cynical old man- the growing up process that his magical experience rescuing Princess Marya literally divides in half. It is THE amazing detail in a book of amazing details (just an opinion).

>> No.12492401

>>12491871
Pretty accurate, fp

>> No.12492403
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12492403

>>12491871
>mfw no matter how I spell my name it's never a significant number

>> No.12492457

>>12492367
>Tolstoy's showing [us] how a very believing and decent young boy becomes a cynical old man- the growing up process that his magical experience rescuing Princess Marya literally divides in half. It is THE amazing detail in a book of amazing details (just an opinion
This is honestly not somethign I had given much thought but now that you say it it does make sense. That part of the book always felt almost dreamlike to me, for some reason the Bolkonsky's land felt disconnected from the rest of the story and the war coming along and intruding on it was sort of surreal. His characterization is also very good, the development of his problems with Dolokhov and then his decision to repay his parents, the descriptions of his life in the army. My favorite part of the book is when Nikolai, Natasha, and Sofia are up at that estate in the woods the Rostovs have and they have a sort of very last moment of childhood together. It is such a heavy contrast wiht the events that take place right after in the city. I think they get dressed up and put on a little play

Also about Andrei I agree that he has a much more satisfying life, I mean he has a genuine sort of Christian revelation about loving your enemy, which you can tell is basically supposed to be enlightenment in Tolstoy's mind.

There are so many things you could focus on as being central in that book, which is the point I suppose, a panoramic view of an entire society represented in microcosm by a group of people during the process of a war infiltrating all their lives

>> No.12492618 [DELETED] 

>>12492367
>But to me the genius of W&P centers on the character of Nikolai
Nikolai is often overlooked which is surprising since he's the closest thing the book has to a main character. Not only he has more chapters than any other character and his arc is the most representative of the arc of the book as a whole but Tolstoy takes particular care in developing him. Nikolai is the only character whose arc doesn't advance by beats but in an organic way. By the end of the book you get to know him better than anyone else. By the end of the book you get to know him better than anyone else.

>> No.12492634

>>12492367
>But to me the genius of W&P centers on the character of Nikolai
Nikolai is often overlooked which is surprising since he's the closest thing the book has to a main character. Not only he has more chapters than any other character and his arc is the most representative of the arc of the book as a whole but Tolstoy takes particular care in developing him. Nikolai is the only character whose arc doesn't advance by beats but in an organic way. By the end of the book you get to know him better than anyone else.

>> No.12492681
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12492681

>he still doesn't have the full Tolstoy in 90 volumes
Explain yourselves, plebs.

>> No.12492746

>>12492260
>>12491728
>>12492272
Give me pure but patrician books that don't involve cycling. Please.

>> No.12492779

>>12492681
>90 volumes
The what?

>> No.12492804

>>12492681
I only have the best

>> No.12492819
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12492819

>>12492779
Currently being reworked into second edition in 100 volumes.

>> No.12492877

>>12492681
IIRC, it has been translated into Chinese and Japanese.

Maybe watching anime and buying figurines overseas was just a training…

>> No.12492943

>>12492877
Har har harr I'm leading the wolks of Rev Torstoy

>> No.12492951

>>12492819
> Currently
Series started in 2000, 8 books have been made available to this day, 120 books is a projected total. Do the math.

>> No.12492964

>>12492951
Well, yeah that's what 'currently' means. Nauka is revamping the 35-volume Dosto at 1 volume per year too.

>> No.12493165

>>12492634

>Nicolas Rostov

*painfully written hunting scene pops back in mind*

>> No.12493599

>>12492951
So not in our lifetimes?

>> No.12493623

>>12492746
Dumb mobileposter

>> No.12493686

>>12493599
Most of the scholarship goes into literary works, which only comprise about 20 volumes (and another 20 are different drafts and editing variants). The rest are articles, opeds, non-fiction miscellania, diaries, notebooks, letters. It'll probably be finished within 2-3 decades

>> No.12493733

>>12491650
It's particularly painful when she tells Sonia that Anatole is so great and Andrei is nothing compared to him. Fucking hell. And this is supposed to be Tolstoy's perfect woman? Also fuck Pierre for marrying her and cucking his dead best friend.

>> No.12493750

>>12493733
>that spoiler
Did you guys think this was morally acceptable? I mean technically she wasn't bound to Andrei, and she would have probably ended with someone else if not Pierre, but I judged him for this anyway. I wouldn't want my best friend taking my gf if I died

>> No.12493765

>>12493686
>editing variants
So that means you'll be able to read the original draft of War and Peace that was published in the papers.

>> No.12493771

>>12493733
>>12493750
I thought one of the themes of this book was that concepts like honor and nobility are bullshit hypocritical social notions and you shouldn't get too hung up on them and let them get in the way of loving your fellow man

>> No.12493791

>>12493771
I agree, but I don't really think that solves this moral question.

>> No.12493826

>>12493791
>solves this moral question.
No, and I think that's the point. Pierre learns from his peasant buddy to stop overthinking and trying to moralize and categorize everthing; life doesn't fit into these neat little categories of right and wrong, and sometimes there isn't a tidy answer. What is the purpose of a bee?

>> No.12493839

>>12493826
ah fair enough I guess

>> No.12493854
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12493854

>>12493765
You can do that with 1930s edition already. Volumes 13, 14 and 15 are just for War and Peace drafts. They've all been digitized and freely available in pdf/epub/fb2/plaintext versions at http://tolstoy.ru/creativity/90-volume-collection-of-the-works/ Would recommend to anyone learning Russian and looking for engaging practice material.

>> No.12493856

So I was going to read this a while back but got intimidated by the long list of characters with wack ass names. Is this a false concern? Should I just jump in?

>> No.12493863

>>12493856
>wack ass names
Stop being so painfully american.

>> No.12493865

>>12493856
You get used to all the character names pretty quickly and while it's long it's not a hard read. Beware though. It's full of cuckoldry.

>> No.12493866
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12493866

>>12493856
>wack ass names
If you aren't a brainlet yank you'll get more than used to it in 4-5 chapters.

>> No.12493881

>>12493733
>cucking the only guy in the entire book who didn't fuck your wife
What was Pierre's fucking problem?

>> No.12493924

>>12493881
>taking revenge on the one guy who implied your wife is ugly
I see no problem here.

>> No.12494239

>>12493881
>helping the guy who cucked your best friend to flee so your best friend doesn't kill him
Pierre was truly the worst.

>> No.12494350

Bolkonsky is the best character by far, his death still gives me chills when I think of it.

>> No.12494353

OP here. I kept reading. What the fuck. So the motherfucker of Pierre, knowing that Andrei still loves her in spite of his bitterness, just told Natasha not to be bothered about the whole thing and and declared his love for her telling her if he weren't married he would ask for her hand. What a piece of shit. Now I hate him even more than I hate Natasha. At least Natasha feels bad about it.

>> No.12494365

people being flawed and having messy relationships?
sounds shit

>> No.12494563

>>12493856
It's the greatest novel since Don Quixote, perhaps greater

>> No.12494605

>>12494350
The death that still gives me chills is Petya's. With Andrei there's at least some time to prepare (and he's my favorite character).