/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12467420]

>"Why don't you read some REAL literature?"

What the fuck does this even mean? You snobs dismiss all fiction that isn't about a man pensively looking out the window while he sips tea.

[Anonymous No.12467426]

>>12467420

Read Homer

[Anonymous No.12467429]

What book were you reading for someone to say this to you, OP?

[Anonymous No.12467436]

>>12467429
Mistborn, god forbid anyone have a bit of fun, seek a little escapism. But sycophants just want everyone to read about stuffy upper class men brooding about death gtfo

[Anonymous No.12467447]

>>12467420

[Anonymous No.12467459]

Can someone req me a book about a man pensively looking out a window sipping tea?

[Anonymous No.12467466]

>>12467436
Never heard of it, but I see it's a fantasy series.
Since I haven't read it, I'm not going to judge your taste. However, I myself got into literature through fantasy novels when I was a teen, and looking back on them now most seem terrible. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that most people here are the same, so we just want you to experience "proper" literature to put what you're reading now into perspective.

Overall however, I think that the genre/literary fiction dichotomy is pretty arbitrary. There's no reason for a book about knights and dragons to be necessarily poorly written (It's just that most of them are), just as there's no reason for a book about a depressed medicine student to be necessarily well written.

[Anonymous No.12467472]

>>12467466
Have you ever read any Gene Wolfe?

[Anonymous No.12467478]

>>12467472
>>12467466
Two wise anons.

[Anonymous No.12467482]

>>12467420
We're just memeing hotshot.
You can read anything you want.
Just remember that refinement of taste is a thing.

[Anonymous No.12467484]

>>12467472
I have not, though I've heard some great things about him. I read Tolkien in translation not too long ago and enjoyed it so I'd like to re-read his stuff in English.

[Anonymous No.12467485]

>>12467436
technically, mistborn is about stuff old men brooding about death ie elend

[Anonymous No.12467490]

>>12467420
>"What the fuck does this even mean?"
Prior to technological advances in printing, there was no notion of big-L "Literature." Literature was books. We critiqued things based on merit, not some arbitrary classical circlejerk of whether the work had some dense underlying texture of canonical influence. Now that anyone and their illterate cousin-fucking grandmother can publish a book and get it featured at Barnes & Noble, a higher register is called for regarding critique and distinction. This, unfortunately for you, means your favorite escapist, best seller, medieval fantasy story will likely never been considered for inclusion in the annals of worthwhile literature.

Canon is a status reserved for educational works, not escapist trash. You might as well be watching television.

[Anonymous No.12467492]

>>12467466
This. Genre fiction has a bad reputation because of the trash that was pumped out in dime novels and pulp magazines.

[Anonymous No.12467501]

>>12467420
There is no "real" literature.

There is just literature and genre fiction, most of which is trash.

[Anonymous No.12467550]

>>12467447
kek

[Anonymous No.12467569]

>>12467492
The poor reputation is upheld by the trash that's still pumped out, but now in full-priced books.

[Anonymous No.12467610]

>>12467569
Yeah, the ads I get on my Kindle are enough to make me understand why genre fiction has such a bad rep, even though the "genre fiction" I personally seek out is very high quality and can accurately be described as literature.

[Anonymous No.12467616]

>>12467420
They're just jealous that you're not afraid to eat a KFC bucket.

[Anonymous No.12467625]

I've got some real literature for ya, right here.

[Anonymous No.12467807]

>>12467420
genre is for subhumans who should kys. the end.

[Anonymous No.12467820]

>>12467436
What? Stop right now and read Nabokov you fucking brain-dead peasant.

[Anonymous No.12467832]

>>12467420
A man reads what he enjoys regardless of it's image
A slave reads what other people want them to for the image and status of the book

are you a man or a slave?

[Anonymous No.12467867]

I fucking loved Tarzan as kid and if you dislike Tarzan there is something wrong with you. I still think it's one of the best stories I ever read.

[Anonymous No.12467868]

>>12467436
It's okay bro, I watch anime all day.
I don't even care about the opinions of nerds on the internet.
I don't even read them. Hell I don't read at all.

[Anonymous No.12467878]

>>12467459
Blood Meridian

[Anonymous No.12467886]

>>12467436
I mean you're reading Mistborn. Which is already Plebbit af. Why bitch about it?

[Anonymous No.12467929]

>>12467436
This board has never been about reading for fun or for entertainment. Most people here will actively work against that. Read what you enjoy and ignore the opinions of others, its your time and you do what you wish with it. Half the people here dont even read what they act like they do. The other half are angry that 99 percent of people dont care about how educated and enlightened they are from literature. You can read for knowledge or you can read for fun, a mix of both is probably for the best.

[Anonymous No.12467939]

>>12467929
>implying reading good literature and reading for fun can't be the same
>he doesn't enjoy reading Borges, Cortázar, Calvino, Bolaño, Perec, etc.
Brainlet. Why even live?

[Anonymous No.12467948]

>>12467929
read what you enjoy but enjoy better things over time. refine your taste

[Anonymous No.12468068]

>>12467420
Never. It is me that says it to brainlets.

[Anonymous No.12468094]

>>12467832
>>12467868
>>12467929
Genre fiction is trash, and just because we're pointing it out doesn't mean we're pretencious faggots who only read for status. Most of us actually went through the stage of reading crap which is why we can tell you it's bad. Of course there are exceptions like Tolkien or Wolfe, but in general most genre fiction is made for people that will only read something because it belongs to a specific genre.

[Anonymous No.12468103]

>>12468094
>most genre fiction is made for people that will only read something because it belongs to a specific genre.
No shit.

[Anonymous No.12468114]

>>12467420
The elitist faggots here have this deluded idea that reading is the true path to enlightenment or some shit, and if you read anything other than what comprises the western canon, you might as well kys (when they haven’t read much of what they claim to either). As others have said, ignore the pseuds here and just read what you want.

[Anonymous No.12468130]

>>12468094
Reading literary fiction just because it's literary fiction is also strictly for the birds.

[Anonymous No.12468146]

>>12468094
Fiction is important because it teaches basic morals.
I mean, you tell people in lengthy essays why it's important not to hurt others, but most won't read it, and those who do will often forget it.
So the common people need stories like the legend of King Arthur to inspire them, almost show them how great it is to be good.

[Anonymous No.12468226]

>>12467447
actually based

[Anonymous No.12468250]

>>12467420
This is a board for the discussion of literature. If we allow ourselves to accept genre fiction or others like it then the base discussion of this board will drop to that of the base level of readership.
If you want to discuss less thought provoking literature use the guardian or daily mails comment sections.
This is more about the preservation of /lit/ than it is about the quality of literature read.
Read what you want, but only start discussions about accepted lit here.
Keep in mind that we are only a click away from /pol/, /v/, /b/ and /a/.
/lit/ has done well to be the way it is now, but it's sat precariously on a rain slick precipice.

[Anonymous No.12468258]

>>12467436
>mistborn
HAHAHAHA WHAT THE FUCK
what a boring book, Sanderson’s worst series by far. Read Stormlight faggot

[Anonymous No.12468275]

>>12467436
Mistborn was pretty good read, but lacked anything that would make conversation about it interesting. I can see why you were shouted down. Some people pay for the internet by the mb and you just cost them money posting about it.

[Anonymous No.12468277]

>>12467420
One of the most popular works of literature on this board is about a man who launches V2 missiles through his boner. Not quite about a man pensively looking out the window while he sips tea m8

[Anonymous No.12468308]

>>12467436
>Mistborn
yikes that's a shit book mate
shit genre too

[Anonymous No.12468315]

>>12467436
>genre fiction

big yikes

[Anonymous No.12468324]

I tried reading The Sickness Unto Death, goddamn it was trash.

[Anonymous No.12468363]

>>12467436
>just turn your brain off, bro
It's shit and you should feel bad. Reading genre fiction isn't fun, it's torture. Imagine being forced to watch sesame street or the wiggles. That's what reading genre fiction is like for me.
Maybe if you read big boy literature you wouldn't react like a coping toddler to someone calling your shit taste shit and make a whole thread to fish for affirmation that the big bad meanie is a boring poo poo dumbhead and your books about flying magical mary sues are equally valid reading material.
Now go back to your containment thread.

[Anonymous No.12468377]

>>12468363
I really hope this is unironic and people like you really exist. The more degenerate humanity becomes the more I enjoy watching the news.

[Anonymous No.12468390]

>>12467610
>the ads I get on my Kindle
???
Look at this faggot, he doesn't know how to prevent the ads. I haven't seen a single advertisement anywhere in over five years.

[Anonymous No.12468399]

>>12468363
based

[Anonymous No.12468420]

>>12468363
the fuck did you just say about sesame street

[Anonymous No.12468483]

>>12468094
t. fag that reads only for "you's" on /lit/

[Anonymous No.12469169]

The only real literature is traditional, manly, symbolic, romantic, didactic, meditative, ornamented, religious, poetic and mysterious. Or at least meets five of those characteristics. Emerson, Tennyson, Keats, Shakespeare, Chateaubriand, Tolstoy, Goethe, Dickens, Turgenev, Leopardi, Hugo, Heine, Bécquer, Cervantes, Donne, Pushkin, Dickinson, Dante. Those writers represent the heights of civilisation, and nothing after could but ineffectually rebel against their influence.

[Anonymous No.12469201]

You know, I do find it irksome that so-called literati and academics have created this stigma surrounding fantasy and speculative fiction, given that the root of literary tradition lies in mythology and folklore. But you're not doing this argument any favors when you extol some trashy young adult genre fiction.

[Anonymous No.12469301]

>>12468114
Very well put anon

[Anonymous No.12469314]

>>12469169
>Emerson
Dropped

[Anonymous No.12469465]

>>12468250
This is only a valid argument if you can clearly define what counts as literature and what does not. Not on a case by case basis, mind you. There doesn’t need to be a clear line of delineation but there has to be some line

[Anonymous No.12469503]

>>12467868
B A S E D
A
S
E
D

[Anonymous No.12469540]

>>12468363
>>12468250
>>12468094
oh god people like this actually exist
thank god you pseuds stay in your homes so i'll never have to meet you. or i'd probaly smash your nerd glasses

[Anonymous No.12469810]

>>12467832
Weak argument. Anything worth having in this world requires a measure of pain. If you play a musical instrument you know the drudgery of practicing scales every day. If you lift weights you know how difficult it can be to get out of bed and get to the gym. This is the cost of growth. Nature only grows by dying.
What would you tell your friend if you found out "Old MacDonald Had a Farm" is his favorite song? It's good he is able to enjoy music, of course, but at the same time you would want to encourage him to expand his taste. There is a massive world of music to enjoy - orders of magnitude more complex and subtle - but it requires letting go of nursery rhymes. This is what it means to grow up. You trade access to small horizon for one that is larger, higher.
You are welcome to play in the mud if that's what you want, just don't pretend your mudcakes are food.

[Anonymous No.12469821]

>>12469540
>i'd probaly smash your nerd glasses
>said the mistborn reader
oooh we got an internet tough guy here. yeah, reading self insert power fantasies written at a fifth grade level totally isn't nerdy at all.

[Anonymous No.12469825]

>>12469169
>no Dumas
>Keats, not Wordsworth
dude kill you are self

[Anonymous No.12469842]

>>12469821
i've never read that book, didn't even know it existed before this thread
how about you go be nerd somewhere else

[Anonymous No.12469849]

>>12469810

i do not care for what other people like
I care about what i like

>slave

[Anonymous No.12469861]

>>12469810
you need to be 18 to post here

[Anonymous No.12469898]

Imagine being this mad about Mistborn

[Anonymous No.12469911]

>fiction about a man pensively looking out the window while he sips tea.
C'mon m8 Book of Disquiet and Swann's Way are good books

[Anonymous No.12469939]

>>12468250
Lit should read David Irving

[Anonymous No.12469940]

>>12469849
No one can stop you following that principle but at the same time it seems you are advocating for it as a general rule. So tell me, why should I not take into account the advice of those wiser than me? I am thankful to those in my past who have corrected my stupidity. Are you saying I would be better off if I ignored them so that I could "do what I like"?

[Anonymous No.12469967]

>>12468250
Okay chicken little its been a decade the board is fine it's time to stop. Ofc you're new as hit or miss posting, tho

[Anonymous No.12470009]

>>12469940
I never said you shouldn't listened to the people you respect in real life
But I do not care or respect any of the people posting on any of the boards of 4chan or any other website.

especially about things that are subjective

[Anonymous No.12470055]

>>12470009
That's because you are an enormous retard and even on the internet you can't find anyone who agrees with you at all

[Anonymous No.12470076]

>>12470055
sure thing how about you go read your memebooks and go circle jerk about it in the other threads

[Anonymous No.12470126]

>>12470009
So if I told you in real life "push yourself to read more difficult literature and in the long you will gain more from it" you would take my advice seriously, but when I say this online you "do not care or respect" it? What changes in the message that it loses its weight by being posted instead of spoken? Do you value your ability to select friends so highly that you place their opinion above all others? Why would you even visit this website if all online opinions are collectively worthless?
Your point about subjectivity is a new argument, and frankly grasping at straws. It all comes back around because honestly jumping to an empty cliche like "art is subjective" is a clear sign you don't read much, or if you do, you're not getting your money's worth.

[Anonymous No.12470130]

>>12468130
We don't read literary fiction just because it's literary fiction, we read it because it's actually enjoyable. That's my whole point.

>>12469201
The thing is, you can find serious literature from magical fiction to Borges and Calvino. It's precisely trashy YA that people here shit on.

[Anonymous No.12470162]

>>12470126
Not him, but anonymity makes a huge fucking difference, yes.

[Anonymous No.12470168]

>>12470076
Every book this board talks about is a memebook newfag. There are about 40 of them and they have -never- changed.

[Anonymous No.12470215]

>>12470126
something that is difficult does not mean it has value in it.
you could be a 18 year old that thinks ayn rand is the shit. or you could be an ameribrap that only reads the western cannon and does not read eastern works. how should i know some rando anon on an anime site has merit to his words. also i'm well versed in the fine arts so don't go barking at me about art. there are many many ways to look at art.

[Anonymous No.12470228]

>>12470168
you're damn right i'm just a d/ic/k that migrated here to call you all pseuds and nerds

deal with it pleb

[Anonymous No.12470263]

>>12470228
I agree with you brother I wrote this place off in 2014 and went back to giving diviners shit on /x/

[Anonymous No.12470290]

>>12467420
>Mistborn
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.12470295]

>>12467436
Mistborn is shit though. This isn't coming from a "read high brow literature" stance. This is coming from a "read better low brow literature" stance.

[Anonymous No.12470305]

>>12470263
based bro is based

[Anonymous No.12470367]

>>12468390
I don't care to prevent the ads. They're not that big a deal and they're ads for books.

[Anonymous No.12470373]

>>12470228
>d/ic/k
draws the visual equivalent of capeshit, his grasp of art history is that of a middle schooler, bitches bitterly about the art market

how much off am I

[Anonymous No.12470379]

>>12467886
>calling someone "plebbit"
>turns around and uses "af"
Yikes.

[Anonymous No.12470404]

>>12470373
I hate american shit so miss me with cape shit
I only oil paint nude women
I paint for me so I don't care about the market eventhough I get to sell my shit and idiots buy it
waaaaaaaaaaaay of but nice try

wanne try again?

[Anonymous No.12470459]

>>12467420
Cry harder you low brow faggot

[Anonymous No.12470494]

>>12469810
That's a terrible analogy since genre fiction is just as broad in its scope compared to the "real literature", a better analogy would be comparing it to pop music.

>>12470126
you were advocating for "taking into account the advice of those wiser than me" in this post >>12469940. I don't think any sane person would appeal to the "collective wisdom" of this site over people they know in regards to subjective tastes

[Anonymous No.12470727]

>>12467939
>>12468094
So based on these name drops, apparently the difference between "quality literature" and "genre fiction" is whether the author regularly embarks on pretentious rambling tangents.

[Anonymous No.12470856]

>>12467459
The man without qualities is mostly this

[Anonymous No.12470873]

>>12467466
there's no reason for anything to be poorly written. Well done, babby made his first steps.

[Anonymous No.12470881]

>>12467420
Are you pissed off by his tone or really the content of his jab?

It sounds like a chad saying "why dont you drink whiskey like a real man". Its not really about the choice you made to drink apple juice; it's about the assumed superiority.


Was it?

[Anonymous No.12470985]

>>12467420
Poor criticism.

The worst of genre fiction (mostly fantasy, military spy, science fiction) is Mary Sue third-person LARP.

Classic lit is full of that too:
Beowulf, Odyssey, Illiad
Outlaws of the Marsh (one of socalled five pillars in chink canon; read one vol of translation; lots of fights, scum living, wine and dogmeat)
Marlowe's stuff

I think it is all about difficulty of execution; "literary" is harder to write since a lot of the thinking is done by the author (even if he is pseud), "genre" just means you have TVtropes as a home page.

I like fantasy; i think 99% of dragonlance novels regardless of author cannot compare with "Farmer Giles of Ham", Tolkein's babby story.

[Anonymous No.12471007]

>>12467420
>You snobs
You're doing the same thing that your accuser is: an emotional j'accuse.

Are you really trying to understand what he meant with his backhand, or just attempting a cope?

[Anonymous No.12471015]

>>12471007
>no, in fact U
Typical stupid leftie

[Anonymous No.12471065]

>>12470727
>Pretentious rambling tangents
Shabby genre fiction has tittilating RNG plotpoints instead

-Sudden attack by unknown third faction
-Sexual (NOT romantic) interest with no effect on the story except to die or N20 some crucial plotcontest
-Sudden family members and previously unmentioned epic badblood that's a fucking SAGA by itslef
-narratively marginal authority figure swoops in at third to last chapter and deus exes all the knots.
-Sonic Screwdriver McGuffin saved to BTFO everything last minute , instead of more reasonably earlier.

[Anonymous No.12471074]

>>12471015
>I don't like the word cope but i am

>i don't like the word triggered but i am

[Anonymous No.12471284]

Is it true that Lovecraft's irrational fear is what made him such a good writer of horror?

[Anonymous No.12471316]

>>12467420
this niga drinking from a tea cup in the trolley

[Anonymous No.12471677]

>>12471316
>niga
What is that?

[Anonymous No.12472120]

>>12471284
First of all, what does this even have to do with this thread?
Anyway, Lovecraft didn't write "horror", he wrote Weird Fiction, but that's a different topic all together. Some of the reasons he was so good at it would be:
>creative genius, along with exceptional verbal ability (he was able to read advanced books at age 2)
>very well-read, so he knew what worked and what didn't, and was able to incorporate inspiration from the best of supernatural fiction with his own ideas
>had a very well thought-out philosophy on reality that he was able to base his stories on

[Anonymous No.12472138]

>>12467426
Kekked

[Anonymous No.12472376]

>>12467436
>Escapism
Sign of a weak and immature human being

[Anonymous No.12472419]

>>12472376
>derision
Sign of a weak and immature human being

[Anonymous No.12472696]

>>12472138
Cecced

[Anonymous No.12472702]

>>12472376
>>12472419
>human being
Sign of an inferior life form.

[Anonymous No.12473231]

AND A REAL HERO

[Anonymous No.12473426]

Is it worth it?