/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12452837]

I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.12452893]

The average person can't even imagine a society that isn't capitalism

[Anonymous No.12452897]

read Francis Fukuyama

[Anonymous No.12452902]

>>12452837
There's not much to get desu, it's mostly just media/pop culture criticism from a Marxist perspective. Though desu the bits about pharmaceuticals and depression are brilliant.

[Anonymous No.12452908]

>>12452897
I'd rather eat franks and fuck yo mama

[Anonymous No.12452920]

>>12452902
>Though desu the bits about pharmaceuticals and depression are brilliant.
Do such topics gain or lose credibility if the author was a depressed loser who killed himself?

[Anonymous No.12452921]

>>12452893
more importantly, they (and you) don't deserve anything isn't capitalism
>>12452897
Fukuyama is boomer-tier

[Anonymous No.12452930]

>>12452837
remember theres more than two modes
get fascism pilled
https://youtu.be/TEqRtjpTqhE

[Anonymous No.12452940]

>>12452920
>implying it was suicide

[Anonymous No.12452944]

>>12452940
woahg....

[Anonymous No.12452972]

The cultural hegemony of capitalism softlocked Spirit's dialectical journey

[Anonymous No.12452979]

It’s an alright essay. On a deeper understaning it’s about the luciferian saying of “I create truth” made collectively so you’re born and an Abstract tells you “I am the truth”. It’s not the abstract concrete All but a system that could be analytically considered conscious like a highly developed biological creature, it’s capitalism. On another note he dwells into the halted human culture which is constantly repeating itself under the C system because it wants to consume everything and make one abstract thing out of it. On a third note it’s about the matrix of virtuality. But that’s what I got out of it in an experience with myself.

[Anonymous No.12452981]

Fuck Mark Fisher, 24/7 by Jonathan Crary blows F*shoids out of the water.

[Anonymous No.12453002]

>>12452981
>And then there's this guy
I'm gonna read it, alright? Blimey.

[Anonymous No.12453010]

>>12453002
Huh? This is my first time posting on this board.

[Anonymous No.12453030]

>>12453002
Lmao I've shilled 24/7 a couple of times here and I've also being accused of being "that guy"

[Anonymous No.12453048]

THE STORY GOES LIKE THIS

[Anonymous No.12453060]

>>12453048
>Let us assume that we are fucked.

[Anonymous No.12453093]

He ended up killing himself because he was haunted by communism's ghost. Marx was right to call it a Spectre.

[Anonymous No.12453142]

>>12453048
NEO-CHINA
E
O
-
C
H
I
N
A

[Anonymous No.12453375]

>>12452920
If he found some aspect of our society that is so pervasive and horrifying that depressed him to the point of suicide, he was probably onto something. See Guy Debord.

[Anonymous No.12453379]

>>12452921
>Fukuyama is boomer-tier
t. Marxist-Leninist

[Anonymous No.12453385]

>>12453375
imo you should study Adorno before Debord.

[Anonymous No.12453391]

>>12453385
Adorno an hero'd?

[Anonymous No.12453398]

>>12453391
no, I didn't even know Debord did so I thought you mentioned him for some other reason.

[Anonymous No.12453441]

>>12452897
>Fukuyama
t. Sophomore poli sci major at a safety school.

[Anonymous No.12453460]

It's good, but if you're looking to find a safe left-wing critique of the excesses of capitalism then you're in the wrong place, it borders, like all honest Marxism, on reactionary politics and a contempt of modernity.

[Anonymous No.12453519]

>>12452897

[Anonymous No.12453589]

>>12452972
10/10 post

[Anonymous No.12453625]

>>12453093
>Marx was right
delete this

[Anonymous No.12453908]

>>12452972
This

[Anonymous No.12454279]

>>12453460
Yeah, critiquing Wall-E is really hard-hitting Marxism. Lmao, are you fucking serious?

[Anonymous No.12454621]

>>12452837
It's media studies.

[Anonymous No.12454845]

>>12452837
Bro, like what if Children of Men was real? That's capitalist realism.

[Anonymous No.12455590]

>>12453048
Fisher and Land are both terrible.

[Anonymous No.12455608]

>>12452837
Actually reading it now. First three chapters last night, will knock it out after work and report if this thread's still alive.

[Anonymous No.12455643]

>>12452908
best comeback

[Anonymous No.12455887]

>>12455608
Bless you, /lit/ needs more "solitary reading and coming back after", less "ceaselessly posting ironic bullshit"

[Anonymous No.12455902]

>>12455590
Fuck off, will you?

[Anonymous No.12457230]

>>12455590
Land, yes, but Fisher is good. His one book, at least.

[Anonymous No.12457520]

>>12454279
it actually is.

[Anonymous No.12457577]

Press F To Shit on Grave

[Anonymous No.12458145]

>>12452837
I bought it on recommendation but found out he was a suicide before it arrived and therefore didn't read it. Suicide automatically disqualifies.

[Anonymous No.12459410]

>>12452908
nice

[Anonymous No.12459537]

>>12457520
>when we see eventually see

[Anonymous No.12459543]

>>12452837
Because you are the ideology. Maybe you can imagine your son could understand it someday.

[Anonymous No.12460408]

>>12457520
I sort of agree with him but could the book itself be subjected to the same critique of 'interpassivity'?

[Anonymous No.12460501]

>>12452981
go the fuck to bed, asshole.

[Anonymous No.12460509]

>>12453093
For real tho one of the events leading up to his suicide was writing that maybe ostracising people for saying some glib things every now and again wasn't a good way of doing politics and was promptly ostracised.

[Anonymous No.12460657]

>>12460501
I can't, capitalism stole my sleep.

[Anonymous No.12460663]

>>12460509
Trump has been more effective at fracturing the left than anything else in recent years.

[Anonymous No.12460720]

>>12460408
well, I would say no.
When we see superficial hollywood anti-capitalism it is possible for us to weasel our way back with arguments like
>well, clearly capitalism in Wall-e had degenerated to an unsustainable state, with buy'n'large having a monopoly over everything, and the non-existence of environmental regulations. If regulated properly Capitalism CAN work!
By dissecting capitalist realism, Fisher is giving us the tools (or the beginnings of a tool) to dismantle it.

[Anonymous No.12460724]

>>12457520
>>12460720
You people are such humorless bores. Leave the pop culture critiques to Zizek, at least he's entertaining.

[Anonymous No.12460738]

>>12460724
haha, yea, you're right, the world is on fire and we're trapped on the wrong side of the wealth chasm, but I mean let's have some FUN in the meantime, huh?

[Anonymous No.12460740]

Awesome book. Broke me out of my absurdist PoV which resulted from observing humanoids.

[Anonymous No.12460753]

>>12460738
Just saying, you aren't gonna win any converts to your nihilistic anti-human ideology by being a humorless cunt about some people's favorite movie. There's a way to make pop culture critique both entertaining and thought-provoking, you autists can't quite figure that out though. You need to work on your rhetoric. Maybe this video will hope you understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSV35A1cQDM

[Anonymous No.12460779]

>>12460753
here's a little bit of practical advice.
If you the people you're 'converting' need to be humored and entertained to remain engaged with the cause, they're useless to the cause.
Change requires people who are self-motivated, and who understand and appreciate the gravity of the situation.

[Anonymous No.12460796]

>>12460720
I'm the anon you replied to and to be honest I'm not a leftist, more like a neoliberal who unironically believes in Capitalist Realism but still found the Fisher qritique interesting. I have some questions:
>well, clearly capitalism in Wall-e had degenerated to an unsustainable state, with buy'n'large having a monopoly over everything, and the non-existence of environmental regulations. If regulated properly Capitalism CAN work!
How is this not accurate
>By dissecting capitalist realism, Fisher is giving us the tools (or the beginnings of a tool) to dismantle it.
Do you really believe this? It feels like contemporary Marxism has been massively weighed down by excessive critical theory in absence of empirical analysis and actual theorizing about post-capitalist organization. If you guys spent more time designing the new society you'd have less of a reputation for being whiny faggots and even if you were wrong overall you would at least have a chance of improving our understanding of things, which the latest Critique of Capitalism™ assuredly does not

[Anonymous No.12460806]

>>12460779
>Change requires people who are self-motivated, and who understand and appreciate the gravity of the situation.
Like Fisher, who was so committed to the cause that he ended his contribution to it entirely by killing himself?

[Anonymous No.12460818]

>>12460796
>If you guys spent more time designing the new society
You don't understand. Leftist don't want to create utopia they claim to want, example: even when forming company based on socialist principles is completely legal under capitalism not a single socialist is gathering up her comrades and doing it. Entire point of that political leaning is to rationalize why others have to give them what they want. So they "criticise" ad infinitum or until shot to death.

[Anonymous No.12460821]

>>12460806
Not him, but why do you keep repeating this pathetic ad hominem? That the guy suffered from depression and eventually killed himself has literally zero to do with the merit of his opinions.

[Anonymous No.12460825]

The problem with capitalism has always been that any criticism of it or fantasy of its eventual demise is just another commodity that can be sold to the prospective buyer.

[Anonymous No.12460829]

>>12460821
das rite

[Anonymous No.12460836]

>>12460821
Just calling out the ridiculous logic of the guy I was responding to and the inherent flaw in his argument. I think it is sad the guy felt the need to take his own life but in a way it's not surprising that someone so humorless would do something like that. Dude was so sure of his nihilistic outlook ("is there no alternative?") that he took the final, logical step in an ideology of his own making. He's a good example of why submersing yourself so deep into this kind of endeavor can end up doing permanent and self-defeating damage to yourself.

[Anonymous No.12460845]

>>12460825
Fisher ironically argues the same thing. As far as I could tell, he didn't actually offer or believe that an alternative was possible, so he satisfied himself with pointing out the many inconsistencies and contradictions of the system.

[Anonymous No.12460857]

>>12460836
Or more likely depression was the cause of his ideology

[Anonymous No.12460872]

>>12460845
Which is mostly what you can do, but one thing that really does annoy me is the psychoanalytic turn in contemporary Marxism.

Theorizing about how the base influences the superstructure or vice versa, is much more interesting to me than Freudian psychologizing about the political unconscious under capitalism.

[Anonymous No.12460876]

>>12460796
>How is this not accurate
A big question. The standard marxist response is that capitalism inevitably eats itself. This is indeed what we observe in the world. The US once had much stricter regulations in many different areas, but it also has a legal and totally normalized "profession" called lobbying whereby big companies pay to affect legislation in ways which are beneficial to them.
Any balance between economic power and political power is illusory. One side comes out on top and dominates the other.

I think of it like this: We know capitalists will do bad things if left unregulated. They'll speculate to the point where the financial market becomes a casino, they'll neglect infrastructure and let the oil spill wherever, they'll sell morons snake oil, etc...
In that sense capitalists are like a rabid dog, and the proposed solution is usually to put a muzzle on it.
The communist solution is, essentially, to cure the rabies, which leads the dog to behave better.

>spent more time designing the new society...
yeah. But as fisher points out, people today are completely disillusioned. see >>12452893.
I do spend a lot of time thinking about that. But ultimately, (because I'm not a fucking tankie, obviously) each community needs to exercise their own self-determination. They need to design their own society. It's like what I said >>12460779 about activist entertainment. If the people aren't self-motivated, self-driven, there is no point. I don't want to tell anybody else specifically how to live, I just observe that nobody really wants to live like this.

[Anonymous No.12460888]

>>12458145
based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.12460897]

>>12460796
>I'm not a leftist, more like a neoliberal who unironically believes in Capitalist Realism

fucking yuck, you sociopath

[Anonymous No.12460903]

>>12460897
I'm kind of like him too. I call myself a Marxist liberal, which is very disgusting, but I do it anyway.

[Anonymous No.12460913]

>>12460897
Blow your head off with a shotgun so you die properly, mass murdering useless money grabbing greedy psycho commie.

[Anonymous No.12460925]

>>12460903
>Marxist liberal
Please go on

[Anonymous No.12460932]

>>12460821
Because he's a nu-/lit/ brainlet.

[Anonymous No.12460941]

>>12460818
Coops are a thing and coop movements are happening. Even then you are just preaching lifestyleism like a good concern troll. The point isn’t to just change one lifestyle under difficult conditions but to change the conditions themselves

[Anonymous No.12460944]

>>12460925
It's simple. I agree with most of the materialistic theory, but I have to admit to myself that I am middle class after all, since I was born in Norway, which is one of the richest countries on the planet.

If I was to claim that I could really speak on behalf of the working class, I would either be lying to gain political favor like the common bourgeois socialist does, or I would be engaging in false consciousness.

Thus, the correct moniker would be Marxist liberal.

[Anonymous No.12460955]

>>12460876
Fair enough. One day I'm going to research and read very deeply and decide where I stand. Until then I can only speculate and lean in favor of the status quo.
>I just observe that nobody really wants to live like this.
I feel this. Fisher definitely did. But I think the average person doesn't give a fuck about their phone addiction, doesn't realise they're being duped as consumers into buying $200 ripped jeans, doesn't even think about massive global wealth inequality. I don't see you mobilizing the masses. There's a reason radical leftism is more popular with the intelligentsia.

[Anonymous No.12460963]

>>12460818
> those commies are fucked up people who have perverse, twisted motivations, there is no legitimate intellectual opposition to capitalism, only miserable, evil, spoiled cucks
yawn

[Anonymous No.12460974]

>>12460963
I haven't seen a single non-miserable anti-capitalist in this thread, have you?

[Anonymous No.12460979]

>>12460963
It's funny how defenders of capitalism have reached the stage where they don't even try to defend it's efficiency or wealth production anymore, they just moralize against the opposition like they are priests in the middle ages screeching against witches by calling them evil for daring to insult God.

[Anonymous No.12460982]

>>12460979
As far as I can tell neither side has made any argument of substance here.

[Anonymous No.12460989]

>>12460836
Why are you trying to politicize his suicide and project it onto his ideology? Hell in one of the few talks he had, he placed some faith in recent events at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deZgzw0YHQI

[Anonymous No.12460993]

>>12460955
>the average person doesn't give a fuck
Exactly. It's pretty grim. I try not to focus on that too much.

Also, for when you go to research, My recommendation is to actually just skip marx (or just look over the manifesto) and start with Kropotkin.

>>12460974
We're all miserable, bud. Don't lie. It's the fucking end times, what's there to be jolly about?

[Anonymous No.12460999]

>>12460944
Middle class does not exist. It doesn't matter how rich you are - a doctor or an engineer is an ally of proletariat. You're either a honest worker or a weapon of bourgeoisie bureaucracy

[Anonymous No.12461010]

>>12460999
lol

[Anonymous No.12461020]

>>12460993
>We're all miserable, bud. Don't lie. It's the fucking end times, what's there to be jolly about?
Don't disagree, but I'd rather consume my energy in these end times doing things I enjoy rather than worrying about events and forces beyond my control.

[Anonymous No.12461030]

>>12461020
yes, prole, things are beyond your control! You are nothing, you have no power! Just consume and placate yourself! HHAHAHAHAHAH

[Anonymous No.12461039]

>>12460999
engineers and doctors flee to the countries where they are paid best

[Anonymous No.12461055]

>>12461020
>enjoy rather than worrying about events and forces beyond my control.

[Anonymous No.12461353]

>>12460903
>>12460796
Lel I used to like market socialism. Now I realize capitalism will consume everything.

[Anonymous No.12461415]

>>12453391
No, but he was inadvertently killed by hippies.

[Anonymous No.12462798]

>>12452893
I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.12463738]

Becoming proxi Chad is the ultimate blackpill. And I don't mean real 6'2 Chad who people look up to, I just mean getting into the position where you can one out of a few thots to come over in case you want your dick sucked tonight.
I am intrigued by anti-capitalist thought and for seconds I always think I should think and try and do something, or take some position - but in the end, no effort I'd do would improve my life. I have better sex and make more money than most of the people I went to school with 10 years ago. Of course it leaves me unaffected and since I don't believe the world can be improved significantly on a large scale (e.g. the problems that the world faces due to overpopulation), there's no way to go from here.
I'm staring into the abyss not because of anxiety, but out of boredom and the realization that catching up with weeaboo art like anime series is the best I can spend my time with at this point.

[Anonymous No.12463749]

Becoming proxi Chad is the ultimate blackpill. And I don't mean real 6'2 Chad who people like and want to be, I just mean getting into the position where you can call one out of a few thots to come over in case you want your dick sucked tonight.

I am intrigued by anti-capitalist thought and for seconds I always think I should think and try and do something, or take some position - but in the end, no effort I'd do would improve my life. I have better sex and make more money than most of the people I went to school with 10 years ago. Of course it leaves me unaffected and since I don't believe the world can be improved significantly on a large scale (e.g. the problems that the world faces due to overpopulation), there's no way to go from here.

I'm staring into the abyss not because of anxiety, but out of boredom and the realization that catching up with weeaboo art like anime series is the best I can spend my time with at this point.

[Anonymous No.12463773]

>>12452908
BASED

[Anonymous No.12463777]

>>12452930
thx anon, im gonna listen to this at work tomorrow

[Anonymous No.12465012]

>>12460888 (checked)

[Anonymous No.12465359]

>>12461353
As does socialism and any human activity, so your woke anti-capitalism talking point is moot in this regard. I recommend killing yourself as the only working solution to address this problem you have with consumption on personal level.

[Anonymous No.12465401]

>>12460941
Name one. Besides vast majority of leftists are not starting or being workers in socialist coops or stock companies when you could be, there are zero legal barriers to that. Instead you act exactly like I described.

>>12460963
Yes you are, it's clear from looking at both history and present. It's rotten behaviour to advocate solutions you don't want to be applied to yourselves.

[Anonymous No.12465444]

>>12460979
We don't have to defend efficiency or wealth production of capitalism because it's self-evidently magintudes larger than that of whatever any communist movement in any country managed to deliver. There hasn't been a single case of bestest socialist country surpassing bestest capitalist country in prosperity.

[Anonymous No.12465474]

>>12460825
"Thank you for listening to Jacobin Podcast. Send us 20 dollars to get socialist literature from our sponsor, Verso Books."