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/lit/ - Literature

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12451081 No.12451081 [Reply] [Original]

would Finnegans Wake be considered any genius or good work if it weren't written by Joyce?

>> No.12451100

>>12451081
I really doubt it.

>> No.12451117

How could anyone but Joyce write something like this..

>> No.12451225

>>12451117
By having schizophrenia

>> No.12452264
File: 56 KB, 720x696, dfghjklkjhgf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12452264

>>12451081
>Finnegans Wake

>> No.12452857

>>12451081
>>12451100
>>12451225
>>12452264
>implying Joyce had any kind of positive rep
Dumbfucks. Joyce was considered little more than a porn-merchant by the critical establishment of the time. His reputation today is due to the slow recognition of his merit over the course of a century.

The absolute fucking state of English majors ...

>> No.12452884

what makes joyce's works difficult?

>> No.12453069

>>12452857
Liar or an idiot, he was infamous in literary circles in the 20s while ukysses was being published in snippets here and there, stop spreading propaganda or your own unconfirmed vague idea of what shit was like

>> No.12453128

>>12453069
Your arguments would carry more weight if you learned to construct a sentence, fuckwit.

>> No.12453529

>>12452884
His language primarily.

>> No.12453797

>>12453128
>Prose is more important than substance
>My brain demands an autistic following of correct sentence structure in order to comprehend what is being said
Ok so definitely an idiot, maybe a liar as well

>> No.12454050

>>12451081
Yeah it would be, because it is genuinely genius and some of the best prose ever written. The end of Finnigans wake made me tear up a bit, it's sublime

>> No.12454373

>>12454050
This

>My great blue bedroom, the air so quiet, scarce a cloud. In peace and silence. I could have stayed up there for always only. It's something fails us. First we feel. Then we fall. And let her rain now if she likes. Gently or strongly as she likes. Anyway let her rain for my time is come. I done me best when I was let. Thinking always if I go all goes. A hundred cares, a tithe of troubles and is there one who understands me? One in a thousand of years of the nights? All me life I have been lived among them but now they are becoming lothed to me. And I am lothing their little warm tricks.

>O bitter ending! I'll slip away before they're up. They'll never see. Nor know. Nor miss me.

>So. Avelaval. My leaves have drifted from me. All.

>> No.12454464

>>12454373
>Can't hear with the waters of. The chittering waters of. Flittering bats, fieldmice bawk talk. Ho! Are you not gone ahome? What Thom Malone? Can't hear with bawk of bats, all thim liffey-ing waters of. Ho, talk save us! My foos won't moos. I feel as old as yonder elm. A tale told of Shaun or Shem? All Livia's daughter-
sons. Dark hawks hear us. Night! Night! My ho head halls. I feel as heavy as yonder stone. Tell me of John or Shaun? Who were Shem and Shaun the living sons or daughters of? Night now! Tell me, tell me, tell me, elm! Night night! Telmetale of stem or stone. Beside the rivering waters of, hitherandthithering waters of. Night!

I'm particularly fond of this passage as well. The entirety of chapter 8 was incredible. I really don't get the people who bash this book for being impossible to read and pseudy/bad because of it, since they're entirely missing the point

>> No.12454521

>>12454464
Yeah well thats people. They think its a novel and they realize they cant understand it and cannot deal with feeling intellectually inferior so they bash it angrily and then act snobbish about it, saying its nonsense or wankery, loving every time other people affirm them it to them. Same thing happens when people read that nabokov dislikes dostoyevsky, its intellectual insecurity when they start screaming at the top of their lungs about how nabokov is wrong and pretentious and vile and etc. Finnegans Wake is poetic and funny, but trying to read it as a story or trying to get all the allusions (which is always ridiculous and nobody cares for stressing allusions outside of joyce anyway for some reason) is simply misguided.

I love that part too, absolutely haunting.

>8. And how war yore maggies?
Answer: They war loving, they love laughing, they laugh weeping, they weep smelling, they smell smiling, they smile hating, they hate thinking, they think feeling, they feel tempting, they tempt daring, they dare waiting, they wait taking, they take thanking, they thank seeking, as born for lorn in lore of love to live and wive by wile and rile by rule of ruse 'reathed rose and hose hol'd home, yeth cometh elope year, coach and four, Sweet Peck-at-my-Heart picks one man more.

>> No.12456107

>>12454464
>>12454521
You guys are fags

>> No.12456136

>>12454373
>>12454464
>>12454521
Croat here. FW makes me sad that english/irish is not my native language. The book also discourages me from writing. Feels like everything was said. Brilliant book, shame I can not appreciate much of it.

>> No.12456139

>>12456136
Still me. A Serb is translating FW. I think the project is now 8-9 years old already? I bet he will lose his mind.

>> No.12456840

>>12452857
I didn't imply anything, I just posted a frog

>> No.12456921

>>12451081
It would probably still be regarded as some sort of a classic by those with an explicit interest in experimental literature, a published novel that insane would be discovered. The trajectory of Joyce’s ouvre probably makes it easier for more people to find it, accept it and attempt to interpret it - obviously having Ullyses to your name is going to do that.

>> No.12457008

>>12456139
Fuck. How do you do multilingual puns? Do you convert them to like Turkish and Greek, or keep them as they are and just change the English element?
I think there's no way FW would have been published if it hadn't come after Ulysses and Portrait. For Joyce to write that, it will get taken seriously, if a total unknown had written it nobody would have bothered making the effort

>> No.12457050

>>12457008
I have no fucking idea, thats why I said the guy is prolly gonna lose his mind. The book is literally-unironically untranslateable. I mean the whole point of the book is that the language is a universal multilanguage pun/portmanteau generator, eh, why am I even wording this, we all know what the language is in FW. The most retarded thing You could do was attempt to translate it. The article where I read about it is prolly 8-9 years old already. I think.

>> No.12457125

>>12457050
And when you do the maths, Serbian has about 10 million native speakers. So he's doing this monumental task on behalf of maybe, let's be generous, a hundred people, all of whom have probably already read it in English

>> No.12457135

>>12457125
I mean I am definitely buying the book. I want to see what he accomplishes. But there is no fucking way he does it. Damn, its such a wonderful book...
>hambarimdambarimdeedoodeedoo
Freedom.

>> No.12457141

>>12451081
it'd probably be considered genius if it weren't written by joyce yeah, since it's overshadowed by joyce's easier works

>> No.12457308

>>12457141
I can't see anyone getting it published unless they were already an established writer. Imagine being a submissions editor at a publishing house when you pluck from the slush pile the first ten pages of the Wake. No way anyone would take it on

>> No.12457323

>>12457308
Makes sense. Works such as FW rest on the reputation of the writer. Imagine some random hobo approaching You and giving You this manuscript. You take one look and know his mind is gone.

>> No.12457382

>>12457323
>psst
>hey kid
>bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk
>I'm a genius by the way, read my book

>> No.12457397

>>12457382
That thunder sound, when I listened to the audiobook, actually sent shivers down my spine. That Sisyphus' rolling thunder-apple-rock.

>> No.12457429

>>12452884
It's like "Where's Wally?" except instead of waldo you have the narrative and instead of the extras you get jokes about dicks or shit. Also somewhere Wilma is cucking Wally by fucking Odlaw.

>> No.12458053

>>12456840
>>12452264
based

>> No.12459471

>>12452857
>Joyce was considered little more than a porn-merchant by the critical establishment of the time
You either skimmed his wikipedia page or are a literal retard if you think this is true.

>> No.12459534
File: 252 KB, 852x900, JoyceWojak.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12459534

>>12451081
Reminder that Joyce coins the term "meme" in Finnegans Wake (527.24).

>> No.12459969

>>12459534
>mememormee
>me me more me
>Remember me
>Meme me

>> No.12460446

>>12459969
...damn...

>> No.12460686

>>12451081

I think it would, given the right amount of academic support. What really helped Joyce get FW accepted was the fact that he already had received critical plause for Ulysses and therefore some people treat the book with the charity it deserved, despite being very difficult, and started working on an interpretation right away.

By the way, there was a thread about making a Finnegans Wake reading group some days ago, for those who are interested to get back to the book, I think they are going to read the first 30 pages.

>>12442878

>> No.12460689

>>12452857
Nice bait

>> No.12460742

>>12457008
idk, but I have the ulysses in spanish, and I've seen a finnegans wake translation around.

>> No.12460835

>>12460742
Yeah and I have Ulysses in Croatian. Its a really good translation. FW is another type of beast though.

>> No.12461806

>>12460835

Indeed. In Italy the first translation is from 2018

>> No.12461815

Was Joyce insane?

>> No.12461830

>>12461815
From my point of view the people are insane.

>> No.12461856

>>12452857
F. Scott Fitzgerald literally got on his knees over dinner one night and Paris to tell Joyce he was the greatest genius to ever live, then kissed his hand and started crying. In front of a room full of peers.

You’re full of turd.

>> No.12461865

>>12453797
What more did you expect when he's a joycefag

>> No.12461896

>>12452264
based

>> No.12462475

>>12459534

Also the word "thot" (49.32)

>> No.12463814

>>12459969
and meme him we did

>> No.12463892

>>12452264
Yeah, I'm thinking this is based

>> No.12465613

>>12461865
>>My brain demands an autistic following of correct sentence structure in order to comprehend what is being said
I would not expect this from a Joycefag.

>> No.12467256

>>12452264

Can someone explain this meme to me? Is it because Pepe looks insomniac? Is it because FW is so hard to read it will make you make that face?

>> No.12467264

>>12467256
It's just a frog.

>> No.12467271

>>12467264

But why is it based?

>> No.12467404

>>12451081
Probably. The book gains its some of its meaning from and has readers warmed up for its style by Ulysses, but the work is impressive by itself.
I have the attention span of a gnat so I read like 1/3rd of it, but it is technically impressive. Afaik, it’s the furthest literature has been pushed in that direction.

>> No.12467409

>>12451081
I would also say that no one else, afaik, has been able to do stream of consciousness well, which indicates that Joyce really was a unique talent rather than simply a novel weirdo

>> No.12467412

>>12453128
Already lost if you’re critiquing sentence structure over substance.

>> No.12467414

>>12454373
Ok, I take back prior comments about FW being soulless

>> No.12467440

>>12454521
You don’t even need to fully get it. It’s like music. (Which it’s inspired by.) Indeed, it seems like a forerunner to lots of postmodern popular music.
(Eg deathgrips, but also even Manfred Mann https://youtu.be/Rpq35wyDi7I))

>> No.12467505

>>12452264
BASED
A
S
E
D

>> No.12467571

Terence McKenna on FW

>the one truly psychedelic book

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QrWfbYFtNk

>> No.12467605

>>12452264
based AF (as fuck)

>> No.12467621

>>12467440
Yeah id say bob dylan and death grips are in a similar super rare line of artistry

>> No.12467626

>>12452264
LMFAO HOLY BASED

>> No.12467700

Just thinking about that book makes me want to give up writing. Why even attempt to try anything after FW has been written?

>> No.12467706

>>12467571
Has quite a different feel from psychedelia imo. More like myth or dream.

>> No.12467710

>>12467571
Rather, from psychedelics.

>> No.12467734

>>12452264
now THIS is what I call Based ;)

>> No.12467782

>>12452264
Based

>> No.12467808

>>12467782
>>12467734
>>12467710
>>12467626

Someone care to explain why?

>> No.12467942

>>12467256
>>12467808
The fake is expressing disgust at genuine use of such a common misspelling of Finnegan Is Awake.

>> No.12467981

>>12467942

Thank you

>> No.12468316

>>12452264
Bbbbased

>> No.12468474

>>12467942
I will never comprehend american humor

>> No.12468549

>>12452264
mega based
No
NO
ULTRA BASED

>> No.12468897

>>12468474
FIA was written by an Irishman.

>> No.12468901
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12468901

>>12459534
Reminder that this is all you got out of reading Finnegans Wake

>> No.12468922
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12468922

>>12454373
Daily reminder that this is the literary equivalent of Schoenberg ending his serial pieces with a major cadence. Okay, I may be relieved to have a piece of chocolate cake, at last, but that doesn't mean I appreciate the 3 courses of shit I had to ingest to get here.

>> No.12469109

>>12468922
the one and only man who single-handedly turned music into random noises without apparent order

>> No.12469162

>>12452264
yep, i'm going to go ahead and say this one's based

>> No.12469186

>>12468922
Remind yourself that you're un idiota m8. The book is riddled with beauty, and it doesnt have an ending or a beginning according to Joyce himself

>> No.12469391
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12469391

>>12469186
>riddled with beauty

This is the kind of pseud who reads Finnegans Wake

>> No.12469433

>>12469391
>Being this salty
This is the kind of pseud who correctly feels intellectually inferior to a piece of art

>> No.12469436

>>12452264
Hold up...is this based?

>> No.12469513
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12469513

>>12469433
Maybe if you read books with real words, you'd know how to use them better, hun.

>> No.12469714

>>12452264
is it even legal to be this BASED?

>> No.12469723

>>12452264
based/10

>> No.12469963

>>12469433
No, he's completely right. Someone like you shouldn't presume to read Finnegans Wake.

>> No.12470088

>>12469391

pijatelanterculo

>> No.12471040

>>12469963
>>12469513
>presume
idiots

>> No.12471067
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12471067

>>12451081
Someone explain to a newfag what this Finnegan's Wake book is and why it causes so much butthurt on /lit/

>> No.12471100

>>12471067
Its a book full of hilarious puns and poetic use of several languages that you're supposed to just open up and read any page and read any part of for fun. People tend to see it as a novel because it does have recurring imagery and when they try to read it as one, they gey upset because they feel intellectually inferior and can't cope with that so they go on /lit/ to look for affirmation from other brainlets who also dont get it and together they spend their time complaining about it when they should instead give the book a second try or realise that poetry/surreal art is not for them.

>> No.12471110

I find it pretty beautiful at times, just reading it aloud quietly

>...her consolation prize in my serial dreams of faire women, Mannequins Passe, with awards in figure and smile subsections, handicapped by two breasts in operatops, a remarkable little endowment garment. Fastened at various places. What spurt! I kickkick keenly love such, particularly when savouring their flavours at their most perfect best when served with heliotrope ayelips, as this is, where I do drench my jolly soul on the pu pure beauty of hers past.

feels comfy and almost like love