The Illiad by Homer

[Anonymous No.12421012]

Discuss
fuck achilles, long live hector

[Anonymous No.12421026]

>>12421012
Opinions on Silence of the Girls and Song of Achilles for a feminist perspective on the Illiad?

[Anonymous No.12421035]

>>12421012
>fuck achilles, long live hector

Hector was just as headstrong as Achilles (leading the whole army outside the walls of troy), his treatment of patroclus' body is almost as disrespectful as Achilles was to his, he tried to kill old nestor an ancient man and non-combatant, he refuses to honor the deal when menelaus clearly beat Paris in the duel, he wrongfuly sported Achilles armor, he is a hypocrite by showing himself angry at Paris but supporting him publicly (being the golden boy of troy he could have made priam give Helen back), he thinks he is invincible because Apollo fights for him and when his courage was ultimately tested it doesn't match up to his arrogance and he flees thrice around troy from the mighty Achilles.

The only reason people like him is because you see him around his family, which you don't get to see of any of the Greek warriors. And even then he treats andromache like she was an idiot and disregards her.

[Anonymous No.12421045]

>>12421012
pissed myself at the bit where Achillies chases Hector in circles around Troy for like 3 laps

[Anonymous No.12421055]

Why does /lit/ never talk about the Odyssey but has a love affair with the Iliad?

[Anonymous No.12421065]

>>12421055
The Iliad is a bunch of homoerotic warfare and autistic detail in death scenes
The Odyssey is The Bachelorette in ancient Greece

[Anonymous No.12421069]

>>12421055
we all ship Achilles and Patrocles

[Anonymous No.12421070]

>>12421012
>taking sides

Did they even take sides back in ancient times? It kind of seem like it glorified both sides.

[Anonymous No.12421090]

>>12421070
i´m not taking sides, the thing is too much happened outside of Hector´s controlm even then he takes all responsability of the conflict, i really empathize with him in that regard, also, the man has integrity, even before his doom he didn´t backed away and even the gods admired him because of that

without him, troy would´ve fall in a matter of days

[Anonymous No.12421095]

reminder that achilles is a whiny bitch who won because of mommy thetis

[Anonymous No.12421100]

>>12421095
What did Achilles win?

[Anonymous No.12421107]

>>12421090
It's the same situation with Achilles, he didn't even want to be in Troy yet he found himself as the one who had to take responsibility of the conflict. Even before his doom he didn´t backed away and even the gods admired him because of that

[Anonymous No.12421114]

>>12421035
> And even then he treats andromache like she was an idiot and disregards her
women are generally idiots and should on the whole be disregarded in matters of politics and warfare.

[Anonymous No.12421115]

>>12421100
>won Briseis back
>won trophies of war
>won the respect of agammemon who initally didn´t respect him
>won the trojan war

[Anonymous No.12421123]

>>12421012
>Blaming Achilles
>Not that arrogant fat prick Agamemnon

[Anonymous No.12421127]

>>12421107
>he didn't even want to be in Troy

yeah that´s why he fought like no one to win over Briseis

>Even before his doom he didn´t backed away and even the gods admired him because of that

he didn´t die in the poem

[Anonymous No.12421136]

>>12421115
He was offered all that and refused. He only went back out to fight to avenge his friend patroculus.
It wasn't about about prizes for Achilles, it was about honor.

[Anonymous No.12421138]

>>12421127
That doesn't change the fact that he didn't want to be there. And it doesn't matter if the events didn't take place in the poem, they still happened.

[Anonymous No.12421147]

>>12421136
i´m sayin what happened to him at the end of the story

trophies of war that hector´s father gave to him

[Anonymous No.12421148]

The Iliad and Odyssey exalt the nobility of Honor.
The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.
Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.
Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.
Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.
Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."
And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.
Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.
A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”
But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.

[Anonymous No.12421153]

>>12421123
>lmao sacrificing your preteen daughter is fine if it means going to war

[Anonymous No.12421159]

>>12421035
>And even then he treats andromache like she was an idiot and disregards her.

lol, that didn´t happen

[Anonymous No.12421162]

>>12421147
Well he defeated Hector without thetis' help and even fought the gods. Not that any of those prizes meant anything since he knew that his death would follow on the heals od hektors.

[Anonymous No.12421178]

>>12421162
>Well he defeated Hector without thetis' help

are you a dumbfuck or what?

>mother Thetis, a nymph, asks the god Hephaestus to provide replacement armor for her son. He obliges, and forges a shield with spectacular decorative imagery.

even then, hera himself tricked hector to grant achilles an adavantageous moment to kill him

[Anonymous No.12421185]

Certainally pic related was the most bad ass motherfucker of the Trojan War?

[Anonymous No.12421188]

Hector is a punk ass bitch

[Anonymous No.12421195]

we really should go line by line for all 15,693 lines talking about all the subtle shit that happens,that would be about 43 lines a day for a year,a chunk of text as big as this...

Goddess, sing me the anger, of Achilles, Peleus’ son, that fatal anger that brought countless sorrows on the Greeks, and sent many valiant souls of warriors down to Hades, leaving their bodies as spoil for dogs and carrion birds: for thus was the will of Zeus brought to fulfilment. Sing of it from the moment when Agamemnon, Atreus’ son, that king of men, parted in wrath from noble Achilles.
Which of the gods set these two to quarrel? Apollo, the son of Leto and Zeus, angered by the king, brought an evil plague on the army, so that the men were dying, for the son of Atreus had dishonoured Chryses the priest. He it was who came to the swift Achaean ships, to free his daughter, bringing a wealth of ransom, carrying a golden staff adorned with the ribbons of far-striking Apollo, and called out to the Achaeans, above all to the two leaders of armies, those sons of Atreus: ‘Atreides, and all you bronze-greaved Achaeans, may the gods who live on Olympus grant you to sack Priam’s city, and sail back home in safety; but take this ransom, and free my darling child; show reverence for Zeus’s son, far-striking Apollo.’
Then the rest of the Achaeans shouted in agreement, that the priest should be respected, and the fine ransom taken; but this troubled the heart of Agamemnon, son of Atreus, and he dismissed the priest harshly, and dealt with him sternly: ‘Old man, don’t let me catch you loitering by the hollow ships today, and don’t be back later, lest your staff and the god’s ribbons fail to protect you. Her, I shall not free; old age will claim her first, far from her own country, in Argos, my home, where she can tend the loom, and share my bed. Away now; don’t provoke me if you’d leave safely.’
So he spoke, and the old man, seized by fear, obeyed. Silently, he walked the shore of the echoing sea; and when he was quite alone, the old man prayed deeply to Lord Apollo,

[Anonymous No.12421208]

>>12421178
Well it was no more help than any other hero got (besides Ajax)

[Anonymous No.12421212]

>In William Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida, Hector's death is used to mark the conclusion of the play. His nobility is shown in stark contrast to the deceit and pridefulness of the Greeks, especially Achilles.

[Anonymous No.12421223]

>>12421208
fair enough but it wasn´t a one man vs man in those cases, heck even when Ajax and Hector fought, nobody had the help of the gods, it´s more honorable that way, which achilles lacks (of course)

[Anonymous No.12421230]

>Paris uses cheat codes and teleports to his bedroom and his waifu
fuck off Homer you hack

[Anonymous No.12421240]

>>12421185
Think again sweetie.

[Anonymous No.12421244]

>>12421012
Anyone know of a good edition of Chapmen's translation I can buy?

[Anonymous No.12421429]

>>12421055
we're only allowed to discuss the Odyssey in John Green shitposting threads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS4jk5kavy4

[Anonymous No.12421518]

>>12421090
>even before his doom he didn't back away
I see you didn't actually read the book. Achilles was the one who faced death honorably even though he was promised an easy life if he went home.

[Anonymous No.12421532]

>>12421518
hector when he knew he was tricked, accepted his doom, he grabbed his sword and attempted to kill achilles which failed of course

i see you didn´t actually read the book ;)

[Anonymous No.12421543]

>>12421127
He fought for brieses not because he cared about some sex slave but because he would not stand being disrespected by anyone, not even the commander. Achilles knew that he was carrying the army and refused to be stepped on by inferior men.

[Anonymous No.12421573]

>>12421543
Achilles, son of Peleus, do not oppose the king blow for blow, since the kingly sceptre brings no little honour to those whom Zeus crowns with glory. You have your power, a goddess for a mother, yet he is greater, ruling over more.

agamemnon was the greater man

[Anonymous No.12421577]

>>12421518
No, Achilles always had the Gods on his side. That's the point. No matter what Hector does, he's bound to lose, but he fights anyway

[Anonymous No.12421586]

>>12421429
am i supposed to want to read the Odyssey after this?

[Anonymous No.12421591]

>>12421573
agamemnon is king,achilles is a prince

[Anonymous No.12421597]

>>12421055
Masculinity complex

[Anonymous No.12421632]

>>12421055
iliad is the greater work.like how we only discuss 5 of dostoyevsky's 20 books

[Anonymous No.12421645]

[Anonymous No.12421741]

>>12421573
>>12421591
The point is that kingship means nothing because you are born into the position. Quit being a boot licker, Achilles was the better warrior by far and obviously more important to the army. If both were in a field with no armor or weapons Achilles would tear Aggamemnon's head from his body.

[Anonymous No.12421757]

>>12421577
How did you miss the part where Hector runs from Achilles like a bitch? Real men accept death with grace.

[Anonymous No.12421786]

>>12421757
>Real men accept death with grace.
which he did at the end


also, of course he would ran away at first since the gods were in his favour

[Anonymous No.12421800]

>>12421741
strategy and counsel won the war,and achilles sucks at both.

[Anonymous No.12421813]

>>12421800
Thats why the greeks were totally fucked until Achilles rejoined the fight.

[Anonymous No.12421840]

>>12421813
until patroclus and the myrmidons joined the fight,patroclus killed more men at then achilles,

[Anonymous No.12421846]

>>12421212
There are thousands of retellings of the stories, everyone having their own opinions

[Anonymous No.12421854]

>>12421840
ultimately it was the stratagem of odysseus that broke the stalemate

[Anonymous No.12421875]

>>12421846
>Achilles appears in Dante's Inferno (composed 1308–1320). He is seen in Hell's second Circle of Lust
>meanwhile Hector and his family are placed in Limbo, the outer circle wherein the virtuous non-Christians dwell.

[Anonymous No.12421886]

>>12421875
Dante was obsessed with Virgil, the guy who romanticizes the Trojans so that hardly is surprising.

[Anonymous No.12421905]

Hector was the real hero of the story. Fuck Achilles, nothing but a cry baby

[Anonymous No.12421912]

>>12421875
achilles appears in odyssey scroll XI a king of the dead

[Anonymous No.12421937]

>>12421813
achillies was in the fight 9 fuckin years and still didnt win you fucking dope,but you say the war hinged on the prowess of achilles.

[Anonymous No.12421975]

>>12421741
>Achilles was the better warrior by far and obviously more important to the army.

a single prince/knight spearman more important than a king..... kill yourself

[Anonymous No.12422073]

>>12421026
>a feminist perspective on the Illiad
Based.

[Anonymous No.12422087]

Hector is gay, Diomedes is based

[Anonymous No.12422114]

>>12421230
Chad wins again while Menelaus cries salty tears on the battlefield

[Anonymous No.12422286]

>>12421012
Agamemnon was RIGHT

[Anonymous No.12422314]

>>12421100
If gifts immense his mighty soul can bow,
Hear, all ye Greeks, and witness what I vow.
Ten weighty talents of the purest gold,
And twice ten vases of refulgent mould:
Seven sacred tripods, whose unsullied frame
Yet knows no office, nor has felt the flame;
Twelve steeds unmatch'd in fleetness and in force,
And still victorious in the dusty course;
(Rich were the man whose ample stores exceed
The prizes purchased by their winged speed;)
Seven lovely captives of the Lesbian line,
Skill'd in each art, unmatch'd in form divine,
The same I chose for more than vulgar charms,
When Lesbos sank beneath the hero's arms:
All these, to buy his friendship, shall be paid,
And join'd with these the long-contested maid;
With all her charms, Briseis I resign,
And solemn swear those charms were never mine;

[Anonymous No.12422353]

>>12421185
The most reasonable for sure.
Achilles and the rest are psycho-tier.

[Anonymous No.12422422]

>>12422314
Yeah he rejects them right after that. And when he does go back to battle it is solely to avenge patroculus. What good are all those treasures when he knows full well he will die in the war.

[Anonymous No.12422441]

>>12422314
Pope is way too feminine for the Iliad desu

[Anonymous No.12422535]

>>12422422
True, but it is important to note that the reason Patroclus had to lead the Myrmidons was because of Achilles sulking over Briseis in the first place. He had also hoped that Patroclus would inherit his spoils of war when he died at Troy, so I would say the treasure had some sort of value to him.

[Anonymous No.12422554]

>>12421429

[Anonymous No.12422571]

>>12421185
He is also my husbando

[Anonymous No.12422603]

>>12421012
Hectors a huge piece of shit. Achilles is not much better. The only based characters (between the warriors) were Odysseus and Ajax.

[Anonymous No.12422608]

>>12421055
Illiad has a more concise story. It's easier to follow. Odyssey has a more episodic structure and some parts are kind of boring.

[Anonymous No.12422621]

>>12421012
Ancient Greek DBZ.

[Anonymous No.12422635]

>>12422554
Album tip: Joanna Newsom, Have One On Me is a retelling of Ulysses from Molly's point of view.

[Anonymous No.12422684]

The Iliad is so great, that big debates rage on, almost 2,800 years after it was written. I appreciate that. What other literary work can even compare in that sense?

[Anonymous No.12422863]

i´ve always imagined Eric Bana as Hector while reading the book, he looks the part

[Anonymous No.12422864]

>>12421069
Based.

[Anonymous No.12423451]

Just finished this today, what translation of the Odyssey should I read?