/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12379424]

Reminder that Plato was literally wrong about everything and that you should stop taking this hack seriously. The phrase "all philosophy is a footnote to Plato" should really be rephrased to "all philosophy is a continuous 2000+ years BTFOing of Plato." In the current year of 20 fucking 19 Plato is non-intellectual reading for people on the train to dick around to. So yeah stop taking this hack seriously kthx ^_^

[Anonymous No.12379435]

>>12379424
Enlighten a stupid person, what was he wrong about?

[Anonymous No.12379437]

>kthx ^_^
based

[Anonymous No.12379439]

>>12379435
if anon says everything he also means urrry damn thang

[Anonymous No.12379464]

[Anonymous No.12379472]

>>12379424
i agree anon, abstract objects don't exist. beauty don't real. "goodness" is just a word. universals don't real. democracy has no problems. philosopher-kings is just plain stupid, why should the wisest rule? blah blah a cave where people see shadows blah blah yeah we get it Plato you can see the true realities and us dumb sheep only see the imitations. anything else u want to tell us, master? what an idiot, can't believe this fraud started the entire tradition of western philosophy, and not based diogenes

[Anonymous No.12379474]

>>12379464
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.12379486]

>>12379424
Plato has never been refuted by anyone except Plato, and then he re-refuted himself to prove himself right. The man is invincible and will never be defeated.

[Anonymous No.12379535]

>>12379486
absolutely based and accurate

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12379540]

>>12379486
And then the 19th century came alone

[Anonymous No.12379544]

>>12379424
>literally named after a toy for children

explain this bullshit

[Anonymous No.12379560]

>>12379540
What are you referring to exactly?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12379578]

>>12379560
Plato
Getting refuted

[Anonymous No.12379589]

>>12379578
By who?

[Anonymous No.12379605]

>>12379424
Actually Plato was right about everything. He has literally never been topped in the history of western philosophy

[Anonymous No.12379607]

>>12379605
No artist comes close either.

[Anonymous No.12379614]

>>12379589
That’s what I thought.

[Anonymous No.12379616]

>>12379607
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.12379622]

>>12379616
Plato is the supreme artist.

[Anonymous No.12379654]

>>12379622
Personally I haven't read him in his Greek, or read enough other canonical authors to comment on that, but his translated works are certainly rich in their literary merit, to me.

[Anonymous No.12379667]

>>12379424
Plato IS philosophy. It is his creation. All other philosophers since have been playing in his arena, whether they like it or not.

[Anonymous No.12379756]

>>12379544
Actually, play-doh is named after Plato. Because it flexes infant's minds, and helps them in their learning - the first Academy they can join.

[Anonymous No.12379864]

>>12379540
And then the 21st century came along and he was re-confirmed for being correct about everything

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12379906]

>>12379864
>Neoliberal Christfag thinks the Ch*rch is comin' back

[Anonymous No.12379919]

>>12379906
You can’t even name who you think refuted him. You have to pretend to be an unpopular ugly dyke just to get attention on here.

[Anonymous No.12379927]

The very concept of philosophy is not about finding answers but making arguments

[Anonymous No.12379945]

>>12379472
>beauty don't real

[Anonymous No.12379951]

>>12379578
What's this anime

[Anonymous No.12379956]

>>12379906
Name one specific thing Plato was wrong about and explain why

[Anonymous No.12379970]

>>12379956
He was racist. He was proto-fascist. He was sexist. Do I need to go on, sweetheart?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12379991]

>>12379956
FORMS

[Anonymous No.12380057]

>>12379424
>Reminder that Plato was literally wrong about everything
Nonsense. The memetic theory is bringing Platonism back. The primal forms theory might have to go, but the cave allegory is exactly how our perception is.

Think of money, flags, cats, roles, Christmas presents... It's not just the base structure, nor is it only the values we imprint on reality. No. We have dozens of lenses and autofilters in place.
Think of Wall Street brokers, see the metaphysical structure. See the golden calf and its priests.

[Anonymous No.12380067]

>>12379970
>>12379991
How can Zoomers?

[Anonymous No.12380112]

>>12379906
Orthodox Christianity, baby. Survived the commies, survived the liberals, survived the Mongols, survived the Ottomans, will survive the Internet.

[Anonymous No.12380143]

>>12379991
Why is the theory of forms wrong?

[Anonymous No.12380331]

he was wrong about art and the afterlife. that’s about it though

[Anonymous No.12380352]

>Plato was right about everything

I'm sorry, but fire does not hurt because it's composed of sharp pyramids.

[Anti/lit/ !N4bnZoKwfU No.12380365]

I'm reading Phaedo and it's fantastic. It's far more philosophical than Apology or Crito, contains a very good example of the theory of forms and has wonderful humor (Ephecrates: "Who was present [at the death of Socrates]? Phaedo: "...Plato, if I am not mistaken, was ill.")


>Cebes answered: "I agree, Socrates, in the greater part of what you say. But in what concerns the soul, men are apt to be incredulous. They fear that when she has left the body her place may be nowhere, and that on the very day of death she may perish and come to an end-- immediately on her release from the body, issuing forth like dispersed smoke or air in her flight, vanishing away into nothingness. If she could only be collected into herself after she has obtained release from the [bodily] evils of which you were speaking, there would be good reason to hope, Socrates, that what you say is true. But surely it requires a great deal of argument and many proofs to show that when a man is dead, his soul exists, and has any force or intelligence."
"True, Cebes," said Socrates, "And shall I suggest that we converse a little on the probabilities of these things?"

[Anonymous No.12380389]

>>12379424
>2019
>refuting people

[Anonymous No.12380407]

>>12380352
Dumbass

[Anonymous No.12380431]

>>12379424
fuck off you stupid fucking cunt i hope you and your parents die in a fire and you die and die some more then die some fucking more you useless little cunt you think you're so fucking smart don't you you little cunt i hope your dog eats a fucking frog and chokes on its posion you think you're so funny i bet you thought you were fucking hilarious by posting this get a job you fucking fanny cunt cuntcuntucntucucntunt

[Anonymous No.12380462]

>>12379424
Hey anon show me how many references you have about your life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato#References

[Anonymous No.12380518]

>>12380331
>he was wrong about art and the afterlife.
Care to explain? I feel like you are a jew, damaged and broken on your 8th day on this planet, now going against all good as a consequence.

[Anonymous No.12380521]

>>12380365
>wonderful humor
Am I a brainlet or something? What exactly was funny about this?

[Anti/lit/ !N4bnZoKwfU No.12380543]

>>12380521
Plato wrote the dialogue, so it's funny that he casually wrote himself out of it by having one of his characters say "Plato had a sick day."

There's more humor too, the other one that I can recall I immediately is this:

"But tell me, Cebes" said Simmias inter posing, "what arguments are urged in favor of this doctrine of recollection? I am not very sure at the moment if I remember them."

[Anonymous No.12380552]

>>12379424

>wrong about everything

Can you disprove these three theses from Plato?

1. the definition of being given in the Sophist as "whatever can act or be acted upon"
2. The definition of falseness given in the Sophist as "being different from what is"
3. The idea that all desire is directed toward a given object insofar as it falls under the description of "being good" (n.b. the description may be false, but believed to be true) as stated in the Symposium?

[Anonymous No.12380585]

>>12379605
Republic was crap. The whole dialectic was a string of absurd conclusions, justified by nothing more than "Yes, I suppose, and "That seems to be the case," and various other versions of affirmation from the ancillary characters.

[Anonymous No.12380605]

>>12379906
What are you even on about? The Church is and has always been based aristoteleans.

[Anonymous No.12380619]

>>12379486
BASED AND REDPILLED. OP BTFO

[Anonymous No.12380620]

>>12380585
>>first level reader
The Republic was written during the Spartan Puppet-State period of Athens.
People ask Socrates "what's best society lol?" He says "any society in wich people are honestly virtuous (because OF FUCKING COURSE)"
They say "no kek give us specifics"
The he proceeds to parody the Spartan system.
HUR DURR I CAN ONLY ASK MYSELF WHAT DID HE MEAN WITH THAT.

[Anonymous No.12380739]

>>12379756
absolutely based

[Anonymous No.12380869]

>>12379424
Is this a discussion about Plato? I'm a brainlet so I hope I'm not offending anyone with what might be a stupid question. I remember reading his cave story and wondering about the following: how could the escaped man recognize the true value of the outside world? Like, what if the clouds outside are made out of words and form the fundamental truths of this world? What if the man is deaf and outside a hymn softly reverberates that reveals all virtue? You get my drift, hopefully. That guy simply goes outside, sees something big and shiny, the sun, and returns to the cave to share his profound but ultimately banal knowledge. Sure, he knows there's more to life than shadows and that shadows aren't the objects they portray but that's all. He hasn't the faintest idea what this outside world means or how it should be interpreted. He only knows there's things that cast shadows. What's the man to do next? How can he know which elements of the outside world are truly meaningful?

I'm probably just rambling and I feel stupid because english is not my native language.

[Anonymous No.12381146]

>>12380365

What struck me most about it was the observation about needing to be insane to create great art, since a sane mind is too restricted to make art properly or somesuch.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12381163]

>>12380620
>The Republic was was just a ruse
Oh the irony

[Anonymous No.12381187]

>>12379486
This. Plato is the alpha and omega of philosophy.

[Anonymous No.12381546]

Read Whitehead

[Anonymous No.12381557]

>>12380620
Its not a parody of the Spartan system its a synthesis of Ionian and Dorian racial ideals you STUPID FUCKING DERACINATED TRIVIALIZING EPHEMERA FASCINATED FRIVOLOUS IRONY POISONED FOPPISH UNFUNNY INSECT

[Anonymous No.12381576]

>>12380620
t. retarded marxist

[Anonymous No.12381649]

>>12380543
I think he only said that to clearly indicate to the reader that he himself wasn't at this event, and that the dialogue he's writing is therefore fictional - not a historical account he was relaying. That's one interpretation, at least.

[Anonymous No.12381931]

>>12379970
In Republic he talked about the brotherhood of all peoples and for Kallipolis to come about, one must see all men as part of one and the same family or nation. So not, not exactly racist.

Plato also talks about democracy in a positive light, calling it the "most beautiful regime" in Republic and saying in Statesman that it is the best regime if things are imperfect. Furthermore, there are valid arguments to be made that the propositions of Book V are really ironic. And anyway, the proposition that a regime be ruled by perfectly wise men who control everything isn't obviously bad, at least not to most people.
As for sexism, he calls women inferior, yes, but he also advocates gender equality at all levels, a remarkable prescription for the time.

[Anonymous No.12381942]

Existence of women refutes Plato

[Anonymous No.12381968]

>>12379464
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH shit nigga

[Anonymous No.12382113]

>>12379424
name one thing, and why. Oh right, you can't. Shut the fuck up retarded nigger

[Anonymous No.12382162]

>>12381942
You have that backwards, I’m afraid.

[Anonymous No.12382164]

>>12381931
>explaining away sexism
Go get laid.
Oh wait you cant

[Anonymous No.12382243]

>>12380112
>survived the commies
Because the eastern orthodox churches collaborated with the communist government. Soviet bloc countries still have atheist priests left over from the cold war.
>survived the liberals
What? when? You didn't survive anything, liberals don't care about your church because its irrelevant. There is barely any evangelization, and everyone in Eastern Europe is basically orthodox in name only, just like how everyone in Brazil and Mexico are Catholic in name only. Liberals have done nothing to your church because its not a problem to them.
>survived the Ottomans
You mean being under the rule of the Sultan for over 400 years? You guys were better off that way anyway, having one supreme authority kept you guys from schisming all over the place. If only you just submitted to one bishop who has supreme authority given to him by Christ...
>survive the internet
Oh yeah a bunch of larpers on /pol/ making historically and theologically inaccurate memes to attract westerners to join a heretical and schismatic church.

I'll be here in 50 years to see that The One True Church is still holding itself together under the Seat of Peter while you guys are getting into more schisms over stupid little politics.

[Anonymous No.12382252]

>>12382243
As a Russian, state of our orthodox church is pathetic. It should be razed to the ground and the patriarch - hanged.

[Anonymous No.12382271]

>>12379589
the butterfly namefag has only ever read Stirner
>>12379951
Re: Creators

[Anonymous No.12382374]

>>12379424
>"all philosophy is a footnote to Plato"

what a dumb phrase considering plato consists of footnotes to the great philosopher homer

[Anonymous No.12383251]

>>12379486
Yeah, as long as you argue inside his little box. He controls all aspects of the debate, since he is, you know, arguing against himself. Plato doesn't have shit on Eastern philosophy; he doesn't touch on consciousness or death to nearly the extent the as they do.

[Anonymous No.12383300]

>>12379667
>All other philosophers since have been playing in his arena

Buddha was a greater philosopher and actually touched on the great unknown, being consciousness and death. Plato is out of touch with the suffering of the common man; he basically just argues logic and catches people in their fallacies. Pointing out circular reasoning, etc. is really all Plato was good at.

[Anonymous No.12383845]

>>12383251
>>12383300
I agree regarding consciousness, and I'm a pure monist myself, who believes I have felt enough ego-death to personally understand the generalities of the Atman-Brahman principle and of related concepts. However, Plato's greatest contributions lie not in the manner of debate which Socrates and his other characters follow, but the unmatched depth of his idealism. The clarity by which he saw past the physical forms of reality and the nonphysical essences behind them, clearly identifying the transcendents like Goodness, Beauty, Justice and elsewise, alongside Number and Geometry, or his seeing of everything as being the Ideas behind them, such as a cup or an animal being the Ideas behind them, and his position was that we can only recognize these unchanging essences because we ourselves were once part of the World of Forms, which they are of, before entering this physical reality, and we'll return to said realm upon our deaths.

So again, as someone who considers the Hindu-Buddhist traditions to be the highest of this world, penetrating the deepest depths of reality by their understanding best of what is at the bottom of it all, Consciousness, I still have the highest of respect for Plato, who also understood non-dualism, but not from the angle of consciousness, but that of the transcendent essences which reality is made up of. Not to mention, he has plenty of other profound ideas too like Philosopher-Kings, the Noble Lie, the Demiurge (a question which the Indians have not addressed properly - to one who understands the nature of Brahman as Bliss, and the subtle bodies which we are all constituted of, how did we end up trapped in this horrible, densest of realms and in these grossest of bodies along with it? Our world is far from bliss, and I personally don't understand how we ended up here if there are indeed higher realms of far subtler substance. Did a demon of some kind engineer this world, or is this world created by the same consciousness or creator which has made all of the realms? Why the suffering then, is it for us to learn from?), and much else.

So please don't invalidate Plato because he didn't grasp consciousness - he grasped virtually everything else, and also came to nondualism from a different angle.

[Anonymous No.12384015]

bump

[Anonymous No.12384116]

>>12379424
Plato was objectively right about this universe not being fundamental and there existing an infinite ideal realm.

[Anonymous No.12384133]

>>12383845
based

[Anonymous No.12384150]

>>12380143
It isn't and you will never get a refutation

[Anonymous No.12384151]

>>12384150
Based

[Anonymous No.12384161]

>>12384133
thanks, though i wrote that quickly and there're lots of little errors here and there

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12384195]

>>12382271
And Nietzsche and Epicurus.

>>12384116
Forms aren’t real. Go ahead and refute the truth of it

>>12384150
Le infinite ideal realm is real in your head, ergo it is so.
Never Ending Story logic

[Anonymous No.12384210]

>>12384195
>Forms aren’t real. Go ahead and refute the truth of it
If you understood Godel you'd understand why you're both wrong and a moron
>Le infinite ideal realm is real in your head, ergo it is so.
No, it is real, and thus we can discover of aspects of it.
>Never Ending Story logic
You literally don't know anything about logic, mathematics, or computation.

[Anonymous No.12384225]

>>12384195
So you've only read pleb tier philosophers

[Anonymous No.12384235]

>>12383845
>However, Plato's greatest contributions lie not in the manner of debate which Socrates and his other characters follow, but the unmatched depth of his idealism.

What good is it? We don't know the thing behind the thing still, if we just use our senses. Imagine all the animals with different senses than ours that experience reality completely differently than us--a platypus's electric bill, for instance. Plato's forms don't account for the fact that our five senses may not be picking up the whole picture.

>identifying the transcendents like Goodness, Beauty, Justice

Sure. If that's what you mean by forms, then, yes, words are relatively concrete in their meaning, as no one will disagree with beauty or goodness at their most basic form.


Plato was too coddled to really understand suffering. Existential depression (the kind Buddha had) is a prerequisite for great philisophy. Plato just plays around with words for the most part. His philosophy sounds great up in his ivory tower, but for the little man down here there is nothing of substance.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12384237]

>>12384210
If space is ideal, there it is.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12384291]

>>12384225
Those three are all non-philosophers need.

Can anyone even say what Plato (Socrates) was right about? He was dumb, but he couldn’t’ve been wrong about everything

[Anonymous No.12384309]

>>12384237
There exists an infinite and countable set of true statements that are not provable.
We can not draw a bijection between the finite number of particles in this universe and these statements.
If we were to assign to each particle in the universe an axiom, and construct a consistent axiomatic system from this list of axioms, that list would be finite, and the set of provable conjectures within that recursively enumerable system is disjoint with the set of unprovable but true statements. Thus there objectively exists things that can not possibly exist in this universe but that objectively exist.
The union of these two sets of provable and unprovable statements is the Platonic Realm.
QED

Godel proved this decades ago. Unironically being an existentialist in the modern era is a sign of low IQ
>inb4 "IQ is a spook"
Keep coping.

[Anonymous No.12384317]

>>12384150
Don't you think The Allegory of the Cave refutes it? There are, at great depths, I hear, fish that are born without eyesight, since they are at such a depth that is devoid of light anyhow. What does that do to forms? What if we are missing key senses to understand reality as it is? Who is saying our five senses aren't picking up faulty information from our environment? Mathematics, which is a human construct, is about as close to forms as you can get. Math, at least, is susceptible to a priori (deductive) reasoning.

[Anonymous No.12384327]

>>12384317
>Mathematics, which is a human construct
False

[Anonymous No.12384335]

>>12384327
Human discovery. That's as much as I'll give you. The actual use of numbers, itself, and tools of measurement are human imposition on the laws of nature.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12384362]

>>12384309
>There exists an infinite and countable set of
Oh goody, a contradiction already

>Thus there objectively exists things that can not possibly exist in this universe but that objectively exist
There argument did not prove this in the least.
>The Plaonic Realm
When that Edward the vampire was born, right?

IQ tests are iffy and subjective at best

[Anonymous No.12384367]

>>12379486
a homeless man who masturbated on the streets did

[Anonymous No.12384373]

>>12384335
>Human discovery. That's as much as I'll give you.
While it is a human discovery, in that we discover the truths of the Platonic Realm and don't invent them, this isn't something that either of us can "give" to each other, as that implies there are other "opinions" that are "valid" in this discourse. There aren't.
Math objectively exists, is infinite, can not be contained completely in this universe, is not created by humans, and is eternal. The laws of this universe are predicated on math, math is NOT predicated on the laws of physics in this "universe".
>The actual use of numbers, itself, and tools of measurement are human imposition on the laws of nature.
Math is about morphisms between structures. Not just numbers.

[Anonymous No.12384378]

>>12384309
>infinite
>countable

[Anonymous No.12384382]

>>12384362
>Oh goody, a contradiction already
Confirmed for literally not knowing anything about logic, math, or computation.
Protip: countable infinite cardinality is strictly less than uncountable infinite cardinality. You don't even know these very basic results though so you arent equipped to actually have the conversation right now. Youre not smart or educated enough.

[Anonymous No.12384386]

>>12382252
>can't into local church

[Anonymous No.12384387]

>>12384378
Every set that is isomorphic to N is countable infinite.
The power set of a countable infinite set is uncountable.

[Anonymous No.12384392]

>>12384378
Yes sir. Mathematically and logically speaking, the distance between two points is both infinite and limited.

[Anonymous No.12384404]

>>12384373
>this isn't something that either of us can "give" to each other, as that implies there are other "opinions" that are "valid" in this discourse. There aren't.

Math is a priori true. It is deductible logic.

>Math objectively exists

Math isn't conscious. Yes there is order to the universe--or logos, as they say.

Math is really the biggest downfall of the Greeks. Life is an emotional rollerscoaster. Buddha was far more influential than Plato. Logic for the sake of logic is useless.


God I hate the Greeks. They have absolutely nothing insightful to say.

[Anonymous No.12384423]

>>12379486
What happens when the true world is expunged? Does the apparent world still remain? No. For the apparent world can be what it is only as a counterpart of the true. If the true world collapses, so must the world of appearances. Only then is Platonism overcome, which is to say, inverted in such a way that philosophical thinking twists free of it

[Anonymous No.12384424]

>>12382243
>You guys were better off that way anyway, having one supreme authority kept you guys from schisming all over the place.

Anon....

>If only you just submitted to one bishop who has supreme authority given to him by Christ...

Actually no, having a system of leadership where power is distributed among multiple people allows for better management of churches. Evidenced by the Popes disconnect with his largest group of believers, South Americans.

[Anonymous No.12384435]

>>12384404
>Math isn't conscious.
That has nothing to do with the sentence you're quoting

[Anonymous No.12384440]

>>12384404
Maybe the universe is fundamentally based on a singular truth? Thus reality is both absolute yet conducive to a logos.

[Anonymous No.12384447]

>>12384440
>Maybe the universe is fundamentally based on a singular truth?

What would that be?

[Anonymous No.12384448]

>>12384440
There is an infinite set of true statements.

[Anonymous No.12384456]

>>12384447
God

[Anonymous No.12384469]

>>12384373
>Math objectively exists, is infinite, can not be contained completely in this universe, is not created by humans, and is eternal. The laws of this universe are predicated on math, math is NOT predicated on the laws of physics in this "universe".

No other animal uses math. Math is a human discovery.

>The laws of this universe are predicated on math, math is NOT predicated on the laws of physics in this "universe"

You've got it wrong. Math is definitely a tool used to explain and quntify reality. Reality doesn't need to be calculated in mathematics, however.

[Anonymous No.12384470]

>>12380552
>1. the definition of being given in the Sophist as "whatever can act or be acted upon"

Does the form of the Good act, and is it acted upon?

2. The definition of falseness given in the Sophist as "being different from what is"

If the false has no positive ontological identity beyond its relation to what is, is this the same for what is in relation to falsehood?

[Anonymous No.12384491]

>>12384469
>No other animal uses math. Math is a human discovery.
Completely irrelevant. It is a discovery because we do not invent it or "make it up", but it is not human-contingent.
>You've got it wrong. Math is definitely a tool used to explain and quntify reality. Reality doesn't need to be calculated in mathematics, however.
None of the statements I've made ITT are false.
Math is not a "tool" to "describe", it is not contingent on material reality. Of course, you can "use it" to describe things, but the description is not the math. It you need it described like this: FIRST there is the infinite set of math, THEN the material universe can exist and take on a finite subset of the infinite list to "run" it's laws of physics. But the math is fundamental and precedes the physics and the material "universe".
Math is not about numbers. It is about morphisms.

[Anonymous No.12384500]

>>12384470
Nah m8. If there is only a singular being, then looking at "what is" as "what isn't" "what isn't" that doesn't necessarily refer to "what is" specifically.

[Anonymous No.12384509]

>>12384491
Why does math have to exist before the universe can exist? There isn't even vocal cords or eyesight before the universe exists. How can something that can't be pronounced, that's form can't be ascertained, still exist?

[Anonymous No.12384525]

>>12384404
>God I hate the Greeks. They have absolutely nothing insightful to say.
>Look ma! I'm being contrarian again
You have absolutely no value, and nothing you think can remove the importance of the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.12384535]

>>12384509
>Why does math have to exist before the universe can exist?
Because the set of the laws of physics are a proper subset of the set of true mathematical propositions

Why do you keep bringing up sensory data? You know about the Noumenon vs Phenomenon and such. Essence precedes existence.

[Anonymous No.12384543]

>>12384525
I am Greek for starters. The Greeks were a bunch of rich frat boys that had nothing but time to sit around and debate stupid shit like mathematics. Even the rabbis and imams have more wisdom than these so-called wise men.

[Anonymous No.12384567]

>>12384543
The entire fucking point is that nobody gives a shit what YOU, a product of the modern world, think about the Greeks, because regardless of your own vapid thoughts on what the Greeks did and didn't do, there is no overstating the significance they left on all of civilization.

It's like saying that you hate the sun because it's bright as hell, disregarding the fact that all of the planets on earth use the sun in photosynthesis.

[Anonymous No.12384568]

>>12384535
I've never read Kant, so I'll level with you, I guess.

[Anonymous No.12384586]

>>12384567
>The entire fucking point is that nobody gives a shit what YOU, a product of the modern world, think about the Greeks, because regardless of your own vapid thoughts on what the Greeks did and didn't do, there is no overstating the significance they left on all of civilization.

There is also no overstating the amount of shit they stole from Mesopotamian society, either. The Occident has their obvious reasons to give the Greeks the credit. India is so fucking obviously where real philosophy comes from, I don't know what to tell you. Greeks really only introduced logic, which is obviously quite a bit lower on the importance scale than metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.12384587]

>>12384309
I’m with you for most of this, but where do you get off claiming that the “particles” are finite?

[Anonymous No.12384595]

>>12384543
>The Greeks were a bunch of rich frat boys that had nothing but time to sit around and debate stupid shit like mathematics
Get your marxist shit out of here. "They weren't poor like me, so they're bad!" is legitimately retarded

>>12384586
>India is so fucking obviously where real philosophy comes from
Remind me again whether the East or the West have run the world for the past 1500 years or so?

Also, I'd like to see anyone from that shithole besides the Buddha come up with anything important at all. And even still, he was a prince at some point, not some dumbass born on the side of the Ganges

[Anonymous No.12384599]

>>12382252
Why?

[Anonymous No.12384608]

>>12384595
Reminder that privileged just means superior

[Anonymous No.12384610]

>>12384595
>"They weren't poor like me, so they're bad!"

They weren't average people and have no idea how average people live and have no idea about common problems that common people face. Their "wisdom" is absolutely useless for the vast majority of people.

>Remind me again whether the East or the West have run the world for the past 1500 years or so?

Past 500 years, not 1500.

>And even still, he was a prince at some point, not some dumbass born on the side of the Ganges


He still knew more about human nature than any Western philosopher.

[Anonymous No.12384620]

>>12384595
>besides the Buddha
Oh, but there are plenty. In what tradition was the Buddha even raised in? You just haven't heard of them, it would seem.

>who has run the world
I guess by this logic the USA really is the greatest nation on Earth, lol?

[Anonymous No.12384635]

>>12384587
If they weren't finite, Godel still showed the infinite set of provable statements and the infinite set of unprovable statements are disjoint. So it doesn't really matter.
I said that because as of now it is thought that the universe is finite. I think something like 10^80 atoms or something. Really big. But still finite.

[Anonymous No.12384647]

>>12379486
He refuted himself, but he couldn't refute the only person that mattered.

[Anonymous No.12384651]

>>12384610
>They weren't average people and have no idea how average people live and have no idea about common problems that common people face.
You'd have to be retarded to think that the only important thing in life is what is "common" to "common" people (ignoring cultural differences, temporal differences, etc.). Ignoring also that logic and math and the like are also common. There are things higher and greater than us, any of us, and to say that creating wisdom about these things is "useless" shows you as narrow-minded and blind.

>>12384620
>I guess by this logic the USA really is the greatest nation on Earth, lol?
>implying it's not
At least, for now. No one knows the future, but the torch of the West that moved from the Egyptians to the Greeks to the Romans to the Brits, etc. is ours for now.

[Anonymous No.12384674]

>>12379540
>>12379578
>>12379906
>>12379991
>>12381163
>>12384195
>>12384237
>>12384291
>>12384362
Faggot

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12384727]

>>12384382
>Doesn’t believe in the consequences of accelerated multiplication upon a finite surface.
>Pretends to lecture me on stem issues even though he’s a mere theology student

>>12384387
Isn’t that joke about halving the distance to the tree an Aristotelian gag though?

>>12384456
If the vastness of space is heaven and all matter were your god, than you have god that needs no worship

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12384736]

>>12384674
Worthless bag of meat and shit

[Anonymous No.12384825]

>>12384727
>>Doesn’t believe in the consequences of accelerated multiplication upon a finite surface.
Mathematics isn't something to believe in. Proof what you're saying right now.
>>Pretends to lecture me on stem issues even though he’s a mere theology student
I have a degree in pure mathematics

[Anonymous No.12384842]

>>12384651
I'm not the anon who claimed the Greeks to be void of value, and I earlier chastised them by detailing how Plato approached nondualism from the angle of ideas, rather than the consciousness which the Easterns did. You are ignorant just like they are, but have merely taken the other side. And I'm quite disappointed to hear your confirmation of my USA question, because it shows quite clearly that productivity is the only marker of value for you, and I can see why you would then completely disregard the Indian traditions, who from their inception have focused solely on transcending the material world you seem to see nothing other than.

[Anonymous No.12384901]

>>12384727
>>Doesn’t believe in the consequences of accelerated multiplication upon a finite surface.
Mathematics isn't something to believe in.
What you're talking about has nothing to do with anything I've said and doesn't pose as an argument against what I've said.
>>Pretends to lecture me on stem issues even though he’s a mere theology student
I have a degree in pure mathematics.
>Isn’t that joke about halving the distance to the tree an Aristotelian gag though?
No.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.12384904]

>>12384825
>prove what you’re sayin right now
But you don’t believe it, anon
>I have a degree in mathematics
>still has faith in Plato

[Anonymous No.12384946]

>>12384901
>I have a degree in pure mathematics
It shows.

[Anonymous No.12385009]

>>12384674
Don't give the namefag any attention, that is what keeps them posting and attention whoring

[Anonymous No.12385049]

>>12379435
That man is a featherless bird

[Anonymous No.12385139]

>>12380869
I always interpreted the man's introduction to the outside world as a spark of knowledge that instantly calls everything he's ever known into question. From there, he naturally doubts everything he has ever known inside of the cave and naturally attempts to learn more about (what he now believes to be) the real world. His ability to separate the 'meaningful' from the 'useless' is not as important as the fact that he is now conscious of an existence greater than that which he has known his entire life (and the possibility that a yet greater existence could exist beyond this). I'm pretty retarded too, but I hope I at least helped your understanding out a bit.

[Anonymous No.12385158]

>>12379424
>doubting the spheres

[Anonymous No.12385190]

>>12384362
fucking dumb tripfag scum

[Anonymous No.12385196]

>>12385049
He said biped, not bird.

[Anonymous No.12385199]

>>12384904
>But you don’t believe it, anon
I'm not seeing a proof.
>>still has faith in Plato
There is a reason Godel's Platonist philosophy grew stronger after he proved incompleteness.

[Anonymous No.12386067]

>>12384647
>He refuted himself, but he couldn't refute the only person that mattered.

Diogenes is trash and anyone who admires him is trash also. He is the equivalent of people who post shit like pic related.

[Anonymous No.12386078]

lads i was just thinking about it, isn't he right about forms? cmon, i feel it in my bones that he's right

[Anonymous No.12386223]

>>12382164
Women are useless anyway. Only men can feel love and affection

[Anonymous No.12386250]

>>12386078
no

[Anonymous No.12386257]

>>12386250
why not, i see it how this lad does>>12383845
basically in that i feel like he is saying forms but it is just connected to the Infinite All that we are all a part of if you catch my drift

[Anonymous No.12386291]

>>12383300
"Philosophia" is a Greek word, which birthed the Western Intellectual tradition which we call Philosophy. Buddha was outside that tradition, so he was not a philosopher.

[Anonymous No.12386828]

>>12379589
By whom* sweetie.

[Anonymous No.12386855]

>>12380869
I get ya senpai. You are asking how the man left the cave and knew the world was beautiful since he had no other value system other than the cave. I dont know but I like to think almost like an innocence lost, like Adam suddenly eating the fruit and knowing good and evil. Almost like a kid hitting maturity and "grasping" the realization of the world.
>>12383300
Buddha is a meme. Stop smoking so much pot in colorado desert tents. Buddhas philosophy offers nothing to people these days. Even in Asian countries with governments that are Buddhist its fading away for christianity or Islam. It was a good start and has interesting things to it, but it isnt to be taken seriously anymore.

[Anonymous No.12386942]

>>12383845
>how did we end up...

Think of positive, rather than negative, perfection. Perfection that is so not by precluding any and all things not perfect, but that is so despite of them. Said things being caused principally by its own freedom to renounce its own perfection.

[Anonymous No.12387128]

>>12384543
You are not Greek faggot you are just another mutt, trying to refute the importance of your own people is like stabbing your father in the back because you want to be the alpha in the family you are just disgusting go eat a pack of Dionysian dicks. Even if you are telling the truth right now it doesn't matter because you are sacrificing something far greater in search of something worthless.

[Anonymous No.12387129]

>>12379424
Was right that democracy is for cucks. Check m8

[Anonymous No.12387139]

>>12380620
In the beginning of the work, they ask Socrates what the best society is and he basically says “farmers motherfucker” then his interlocutors get butthurt so he goes on a 7 book long tirade where he invents psychology and politics among a bunch of other shit.

[Anonymous No.12387141]

>>12379464
>black people even knowing the difference between a plate and Plato
doubt.jpg

[Anonymous No.12387143]

>>12379464
Unironically should have tried to kill him.

[Anonymous No.12387203]

>>12384404
>Math is a priori true. It is deductible logic.
So how do you a priori determine whether the parallel postulate is true or false?
How do you a priori determine whether the set theoretical axiom of choice is true or false?

[Anonymous No.12387209]

>>12384404
a posteriori deductions and observations lead to people saying math is a priori true because of human cognitive biases, it is only a priori true within its own language in the minds of humans that have chosen to ignore its a posteriori origins for the sake of their axioms and emotional stability. Every single math fag fails to first locate the genesis of the number line and distinction of something, nothing, space and form, division, union etc outside their own language. This renders it completely referenceless, impotent, divorced from the world (bad if platonic realist assuming math>reality causal chain) and strongly decreases its validity as a physical phenoemena in the eyes of empiricism.

[Anonymous No.12387502]

>>12386855
>Buddhism isn't to be taken seriously anymore
>still takes Genesis seriously
and he calls others potheads...

[Anonymous No.12387507]

>>12387209
empiricism can't even exist without mathematics, else nothing could even be measurable so i really don't think you know of what you're saying here. there is no empiricism divorced from mathematics, and if there is no mathematics neither is there empiricism

[Anonymous No.12387571]

>>12379486
>The man is invincible
>and will never be defeated

[Anonymous No.12387632]

>>12384309
Universe is not a formal system but you would need to pull you head out of your mathematician's ass first to see it.