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/lit/ - Literature

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12355288 No.12355288 [Reply] [Original]

Has a rapper ever achieved the level of artistry of written poetry?

>> No.12355297

Yes but you won't hear that here.

>> No.12355306

Yes

>> No.12355314

>>12355297
Go ahead, enlighten us.

>> No.12355324

>>12355314
https://youtu.be/qggxTtnKTMo

>> No.12355329

No.

It speaks volumes about our intellectual decline that we are even considering "rap" as poetry/literature.

Human beings have lost the ability to comprehend serious literature, and instead of trying to elevate their intellect, they are lowering the literary threshold, so that juvenile forms of thought (rap, TV et al) are being discussed seriously.

Very depressing.

But at an individual level, we must try our best to refrain from these easy solutions and read (at least try) seriously and sincerely.

Godspeed anon.

>> No.12355345

>>12355329
Ironically, this is an incredibly stupid post and sounds as if it was written by a high school sophomore.

>> No.12355348

>>12355324
LMFAO nice bait

>> No.12355356

>>12355348
It's not bait.

>> No.12355357

>>12355288
There have been working class autodidact movements in literature with genuine merit. Rap's not one of them.

>> No.12355362

OP, check out honor killed the samurai by Ka.
https://youtu.be/Do2xXV2xrr0
A song from from the album

>> No.12355363

>>12355345
Yes, it must seem that way, to you.

My point, exactly.

>> No.12355371

>>12355356
Explain what literary value this poem holds then. This isn't even great Hiphop, let alone poetry.

>> No.12355376

>>12355356
Immortal technique is middle schooler tier depth
https://youtu.be/uAWqfAMfomQ
https://youtu.be/ZEBGCOCxLgA

>> No.12355380

>>12355329
based

>> No.12355418

>>12355371
It's bait I'm sure

>> No.12355435

>>12355371
Define literary value

>> No.12355436

>>12355288
What kind of pseud autist would compare written poetry to rap?

>> No.12355468

>>12355329
OP isn't suggesting that rap is poetry.

>> No.12355478

>>12355436
> what kind of pseud autist would compare two genres in terms of artistic value
Yeah, man. I don't know, man. Fuckin' retards.

>> No.12355496

>>12355288
N

>> No.12355514

>>12355324
>Immortal Technique
I remember being 12, you'd better enjoy it.

>> No.12355534

Time for /lit/'s weekly Eminem circlejerk.

>> No.12355725

>>12355435
The value that is literary.

>> No.12355817

>>12355288
Buck 65 maybe...but he's not the type of rapper, rap kids like.

>> No.12355893

>>12355288
Az's verse on life's a bitch by Nas
Haze of Interference by Bedwetter

>> No.12355917

>>12355288
The Divine Comedy is peak poetry (+1000). Rap is a lower form of poetry. It's in the negatives. So even less shitty rappers are shitty poets. -700 and -600 are still shit. So to answer your question, no.

>> No.12355995

We used to fight for building blocks
Now we fight for blocks with buildings that make a killin'
The closest of friends when we first started
But grew apart as the money grew and soon grew black-hearted
Thinkin' back when we first learned to use rubbers
He never learned, so in turn I'm kidnappin' his baby's mother
My hand around her collar, feedin' her cheese
She said the taste of dollars was shitty, so I fed her fifties
About his whereabouts I wasn't convinced
I kept feedin' her money 'til her shit started to make sense
Who could ever foresee?
We used to stay up all night at slumber parties
Now I'm tryna rock this bitch to sleep
All the years we were real close
Now I see his fears through her tears
Know she's wishin' we were still close
Don't cry, it is to be; in time
I'll take away your miseries and make it mine

>> No.12356026

>>12355995
Absolute doggerel from the first line onwards.

>> No.12356034

>>12355995
cringe, these could be late 70's pubrock lyrics.

>> No.12356042

>>12355995
>rhyming close with close
what a poet

>> No.12356043

>>12355995
Great song, spiritually bankrupt faggotry. Read Keats’ sophomoric soporific nigger thoughts and compare.

>> No.12356045

>>12356026
>>12356034
its better flash fiction than has ever been posted on this board and you cannot show me anything to trump it, i will f5 all night and wait

>> No.12356048

The worst part about rap are the rhymes.

>> No.12356087

>>12356043
i think you are barking up the wrong tree if you are looking for spiritualism in hip-hop

hip-hop is a modernist genre that touches on themes important to working class people. i understand the middle class white soibois in here can't relate to struggle or hard work on any real level, but there is a reason it is the most popular form of literature on the planet, it is relatable to normal people. its cool when artists push the genre thematically but in it's purest form it's working class dudes telling working class stories fantastic and gothic

>> No.12356115

>>12356045
>not thinking "When he woke up the dinosaur was still there." is the best flash fiction ever
Absolute pleb. No wonder you're into niggernoise.

>> No.12356122

>>12355329
What's serious literature?

>> No.12356130

>>12356087
Hiphop is not even consumed as literature, it's consumed as music. So no, it's not "the most popular form of literature on the planet". Only delusional niggers think that.

>> No.12356139

>>12356087
>working class people
constructed politically useful sterile label for flesh and blood. strike one bug friend
>uses soiboi casually with me
strike two cretin
>normies like it
strike 3, kys

>dudes
>my stories
>my insipid predatory behavior
>my lack of perspective or aesthetic instinct
>my warrior cult
>my dick
nigger

>> No.12356173

>>12356087
>muh struggle
>muh low class
>muh skin colour
>muh whore
>muh hood
>muh money
Hiphop is for brainfucked retards and niggers.

>> No.12356191

>>12356130
Poetry was consumed as music once too, if you don't see the literary value in the textual canon you actually either don't like literature or you're just dumb

>>12356139
>t. Brayden Witherspoon, Des Moines Elementary

>> No.12356202

>>12356173
you're right, materialism, women and provincialism are worthless modern notions that have never been and should never be part of literature, i really cant defend this

>> No.12356210

>>12355288
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FimNTL2o4Do
SUNSET IS AN ALL DAY PROCESS

>> No.12356213

Now that I'm strugglin' in this business, by any means
Label me greedy gettin' green, but seldom seen
And fuck the world cause I'm cursed, I'm havin' visions
Of leavin'' here in a hearse, God can you feel me?
Take me away from all the pressure, and all the pain
Show me some happiness again, I'm goin' blind
I spend my time in this cell, ain't livin'' well
I know my destiny is Hell, where did I fail?
My life is in denial, and when I die,
Baptized in eternal fire I'll shed so many tears

>> No.12356232

>>12356210
I remember buying this cd in high school, why are you listening to this garbage in 2018? Are you an old fuck like me?

>> No.12356247

>>12356115
Not even close to as good as "The last man on earth heard a knock on the door"

>> No.12356249

>>12356191
>Poetry was consumed as music once too
Yeah in ancient times and as declamation and then all the poets were eventually read and not listened. If you're saying hiphip is somehow literature, despite not being consumed as such, probably never, you might as well be saying every other kind of music is also literature, which would make pop music and rock music the most popular genres of "literature". Anyway you see it, this is a retarded classification.

>> No.12356258

>>12356232
>garbage
As far as hip-hop goes its probably one of the most unique listening experiences you can have in the genre. Hell, you bought the album so you must've seen something in it. Why the self-hatred?

>> No.12356262

>>12356213
>this is peak niggernoise performance
this is what you're trying to pass off as good? America was a mistake.

>> No.12356270

>>12356258
the novelty wore off and its "uniqueness" doesn't make up for the mediocrity of the compositions and the vocal performances

>> No.12356272

>>12356258
>Why the self-hatred?
I resent my old ways desu. I wish I had been a teetotaling prude in high school instead of trying to be cool with weed and hip-hop.

>> No.12356283

>>12356213
Shallow and pedantic

>> No.12356285

I bomb atomically
Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be droppin' these
Mockeries

>> No.12356295

>>12356270
Couldn't disagree more, the variety of vocal performances and surreal lyricism are what make it so engaging, and the loose feel is part of that. Even Scaruffi approves

>> No.12356310

>>12356247
It's actually "The last man on Earth sat alone in a room. There was a knock on the door." The dinosaur one is shorter and lends itself to multiple interpretations, including a metaphysical one and even a political one, not just a M. Night Shyamalan tier plot twist. But then again you're defending rap, so expecting you to understand art might be too much to ask.

>> No.12356314

>>12356258
Because some nerds online told him it's not patrician enough

>>12356249
the textual body of work from other genres of music does qualify as literature, they are just rarely forms where the text is a dominant piece of the artwork and offer less to discuss on /lit/. there is nothing about the association with music that detracts from it's status as literature either, that is about as valid as saying a novel isn't literature because you're listening to music at the same time. the text is what is important. I don't understand why you (i actually do understand) are so reluctant to accept other forms of writing into your little club (it's because rappers are black)

>> No.12356316
File: 1.87 MB, 400x212, N8PPn55.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12356316

>>12356285
AYO WHO WOULDA THOUGHT THAT A WHITE BOI WOULD BRING HIPHOP BACK FUCK DRAKE REAL HIPHOP, THIS THAT REAL HIPHOP SHIT

IM A SPIRITUAL LYRICAL INDIVIDUAL SPIRITUAL MIRACLE LYRICAL INDIVIDUAL
SPIRITUAL MIRACLE INDIVIDUAL
SKIPPIN N FLIPPIN N DIPPIN N SKIPPIN N FLIPPIN N DIPPIN THE ILLEST THE KILLEST THE SKILLEST THE WILLEST IM THE REALEST OF THE REALEST IM BRINGING REAL HIP HOP BACK DONT YOU FORGET IT FUCK THAT MAINSTREAM SHIT SPIRITUAL ILLEST INDIVIDUAL SPIRITUAL MIRACLE INDIVIDUAL

>> No.12356325

>>12356310
>The dinosaur one is shorter and lends itself to multiple interpretations, including a metaphysical one and even a political one

sure buddy

>> No.12356328

>>12356285
Lyrically perform armed robbery
Flee with the lottery
possibly they spotted me

>> No.12356332

death grips

>> No.12356348

>>12356272
>tfw I was actually the same
Damn dude, I didn't ask for these feels. That said, even if the new-age ambience does get a tad repetitive, I still think its refreshing and stands out on its own merits, simply because its unafraid to be a little dorky in a genre that is dominated by machismo and dull-headed aggression

>> No.12356369

https://youtu.be/yeh6jhHLgtg

>> No.12356374

>>12356295
>scaruffi
Engaging doesn't make it good or worth considering as art.

>> No.12356385

>>12356314
>the textual body of work from other genres of music does qualify as literature, they are just rarely forms where the text is a dominant piece of the artwork and offer less to discuss on /lit/.
Dunno, I've seen plenty of Leonard Cohen, Morrisey, Joanna Newson, and Nick Cave threads in the past.
> there is nothing about the association with music that detracts from it's status as literature either, that is about as valid as saying a novel isn't literature because you're listening to music at the same time.
Are you fucking serious?? Are you this retarded?? The creators meant for you to listen to their music. The authors of the novels do not, or else they'd sell you some music along with the book.
>the text is what is important.
The important thing is the song, not the actual text, otherwise hiphop is a colossal failure, if text is the important thing. Beats, sampling, bass lines, beatbox aren't important? They're the fucking cornerstones of that music genre.
> I don't understand why you (i actually do understand) are so reluctant to accept other forms of writing into your little club (it's because rappers are black)
It's because it's consumed as music, not as literature, that is, books. Why is it so hard to understand?? How can it be literature if it's not??

>> No.12356402

>>12356325
>s-sure buddy
fuck off

>> No.12356408

>>12355288
Unironically, yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGjy42gsiDo

There's just so much dreck in hip hop and it's made even harder that the general aesthetic of a lot of good stuff is similar to that of the bad. The only criticism that I can think of of rap is that it is almost universally orated over an evenly divisible 4/4 beat, which seems to me to be a bit of a hindrance; it is somewhat limiting in a musical//narrative sense to only make use of simple time. This is only one reason why I would perhaps separate it from vocal classical music/opera libretti but that's contentious also.
Though I guess most anons will just say something along the lines of "it's bad bcoz niggers"

>> No.12356419

nah rap is shit, not even qualifies as good music, let alone other things.

>> No.12356420

>>12356374
>good = worth considering as art
>my definition of art is final
Thank God you're not really the arbiter of good taste, otherwise we'd all be fucked.

>> No.12356434

>>12355288

oh yes. but with rappers its in the musical rhythm also, not just in the spoken words alone.

one of my favorites:

2pac's verse on this one

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/akon/ghettoremix.html

>> No.12356435

>>12356420
>rap = good
Thank God you're not really the arbiter of good taste, otherwise we'd all be fucked.

>> No.12356449

When people start comparing rap, a pseudo-improvisational attempt to keep up with a simple 4/4 beat and impress the audience by bragging about their lives, to poetry, like capital P Poetry, I have to question whether they've actually read poetry on a serious level.

Like, could Coates read Yeats's "He wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" and pick up on how Yeats deliberately contrasts his first quatrain's dactylic beat with the second quatrain's anapestic metre to emphasise his narrator's bitter humility and better contradict his fantasies? Does he understand the sheer amount of effort, skill, and intelligence it takes to consciously manipulate the rhythm not of a sentence or a phrase, but of the very way each and every syllable itself is pronounced and arranged in order to represent a complex and emotional idea? To do this while maintaining a coherent grammatical and original rhyming structure AND while delivering a series of stunning images that range from religious ecstasy to poverty and psychological turmoil? To then subtly contradict this established structure in order to draw attention to yet another complex idea?

This isn't just a spread of internal rhymes, puns, and catchy slang; this is a man loading no more than eight lines with as much content as the English language allows.

Illmatic is a good album. Nas is a talented rapper. But to say that a 16 year-old kid from the projects operates at the level of a Nobel Prize-winning poet is absolute horseshit. No he fucking does not; he wrote his lyrics according to some DJ Premier beat and his own public image. You want to judge his writing as poetry? You want to look at his words when they're neutered from the music and live audience they were written to accompany? Okay, let's look. There is no coherent metre, let alone any conscious metrical technique. His rhyme scheme is all over the fucking place, and a lot of phrases were awkwardly forced in just to hit those incredibly simple end rhymes. The narrative is sloppy and its images are repetitive; he abandons ideas halfway through simply to survive until the next line. He brags about himself constantly and fills his story with non sequiturs that serve no purpose other than to highlight his knowledge of street slang and demonstrate how violent his life is.

As poetry, it's kind of trash. It's not very creative. It's definitely not skillful. It should be performed over music and never ever separated from it

>> No.12356460

>>12356385
I'm obviously talking about the lyrical text as it is written, if you are legitimately so dumb that you can't get past the fact that it is associated with music, then you really just aren't thinking critically at all

It is okay for you to not like rap music but you are objectively incorrect to say the lyrics are anything but literature. All this other shit you are sperging about is for the birds. Text is text.

>> No.12356480

>>12356449
based. rapfags BTFO.

>> No.12356489

>>12356449
>no conscious metrical technique on Illmatic of all fucking albums

how do you sleep at night being so intentionally dishonest

>> No.12356501

>>12356449
hilarious pasta

>> No.12356502

>>12356460
The actual written text vs the performed texts are essentially different entities and therefore, different experiences. It's like saying movie screenplays and actual movies are the same. An absolutely retarded and reductionist claim. Hiphop is a music genre, not a literature genre, and there's nothing you can do about it.

>> No.12356522

>>12356502
>The actual written text vs the performed texts are essentially different entities and therefore

you're getting so close to actually grasping the point i don't want to stop responding to you just yet


>>12356449
this is actually one of the most egregious loads of bullshit i have ever heard

>> No.12356533

>>12356522
>y-you're all wrong hehe
fuck off

>> No.12356548

>ctrl+f nujabes
>not found

>> No.12356551

>>12356533
There's not really much else to say. Rap lyrics make up a body of literature as much as two plus two equals four. That's just how it works. I'm sorry you don't personally like the music.

>> No.12356552

What fine design
What hands
What minds
The envy of Eden
Our tools and our reason
It's clear in the animals eyes
We stand
Upright
Build fires
At night
Made on the sixth day
To rest on the seventh
And now we just try to survive

>> No.12356554
File: 239 KB, 500x514, 1542514147431.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12356554

>>12356449
>could Coates read Yeats's "He wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" and pick up on how Yeats deliberately contrasts
w-what does coates have to do with anything?
>niggers cant understand poetry
nuclear take my dude

>> No.12356566

>>12356548
I agree that Nujabes is fantastic but the rappers that he worked with aren't approaching what I would consider to be sublime. It was his contribution to the projects which is what made them special. Only exception might be his stuff with Shing02; those two made beautiful things together.

>> No.12356578

>>12356551
They're never consumed as literature, though. THAT'S the point. They aren't any different from any other music genre with lyrics. If you want something to count as literature, release a book, not an album. That's just how things work m8. Sorry.

>> No.12356585

>>12356578
You mean like plays before academia?

>> No.12356590

>>12356122
One that aims to be wise, not clever.

>> No.12356611

>>12356585
Pretty sure the First Folio was published in book form a few years after Shakespeare died, or in quarto while he was alive. And tons of other plays and playwrights were published back in the day, too.

>> No.12356615

>>12356585
>Was ist das Erste Folio?
Neger, du Dummkopf

>> No.12356619

>>12356611
What about this, then?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rap_Year_Book

>> No.12356637

>>12356551
Lyrics may be literature but they are not good literature because they lack the essential component of music that they were designed around. It's like saying a screenplay is literature. Yes, technically you're right but it isn't good literature because it was not designed with that in mind.

All Rap lyrics become inert when torn from the music and die a death when put down on the page.

>> No.12356646

>>12356408
What you posted was bad.

>> No.12356647

>>12355288
MF DOOM is genuinely great writing which is witty, erudite and colloquial.

>> No.12356656

>>12356489
Where are they then nigger?

>> No.12356667

A child is born with no state of mind
Blind to the ways of mankind
God is smilin' on you but he's frownin' too
Because only God knows what you'll go through
You'll grow in the ghetto livin' second-rate
And your eyes will sing a song called deep hate
The places you play and where you stay
Looks like one great big alleyway
You'll admire all the number-book takers
Thugs, pimps and pushers and the big money-makers
Drivin' big cars, spendin' twenties and tens
And you'll wanna grow up to be just like them, huh
Smugglers, scramblers, burglars, gamblers
Pickpocket peddlers, even panhandlers
You say I'm cool, huh, I'm no fool
But then you wind up droppin' outta high school
Now you're unemployed, all non-void
Walkin' round like you're Pretty Boy Floyd
Turned stick-up kid, but look what you done did
Got sent up for a eight-year bid
Now your manhood is took and you're a Maytag
Spend the next two years as a undercover fag
Bein' used and abused to serve like hell
Til one day, you was found hung dead in the cell
It was plain to see that your life was lost
You was cold and your body swung back and forth
But now your eyes sing the sad, sad song
Of how you lived so fast and died so young so

>> No.12356669

>>12356647
Not only is your opinion garbage but you wrote it like a retard too.

>> No.12356672

MF DOOM. I've never come across rhymes so weird and storytelling so intricate in an album. Its also really fun keeping up with all his personas

>> No.12356686 [DELETED] 

>>12356619
It's a book of essays about rap music written by a Mexican-American journalist. You don't get it, do you? It's a music genre, not a literature genre. I even like Kanye's music, but I wouldn't say a song or an album is literature any more that I'd say a painting is a movie. It just isn't.

>> No.12356687

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLFD1b1kKaI

>> No.12356695

>>12356619
It's a book of essays about rap music written by a Mexican-American journalist. You don't get it, do you? It's a music genre, not a literature genre. I even like Kanye's music, but I wouldn't say a song or an album is literature any more that I'd say a painting is a movie or a dog is a fruit. It just isn't. And there's nothing wrong with that.

>> No.12356697

I am the beast i worship line is genuinely /lit/

>> No.12356704

>>12356686
Send kind of amazing to me that respected authors can figure out how to work songs into their books, but the /lit/erati can't even pull a bit of literature out of a song

>> No.12356705

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKTUAESacQM
/thread

>> No.12356713

HOW THE FUCK AM I GONNA SHAKE YOUR HAND
WHEN WE’VE NEVER BEEN SEEN AS EQUAL?
DEEMED EVIL

it’s alright

>> No.12356715

"Getting paid like a biker with the best crank
Sprayed like a high ranked sniper in the West Bank."

>> No.12356728

>>12356087
50/50 anon just because onions don`t have a cool life or real adventures

>> No.12356740

Song isn't poetry, but there are share elements between songwriting and poetry. Rap is exceptional at meter and wordplay. Its one of the most meaning-dense forms.

I gave 'em two sixteens in a lucid dream
With the muses playing theme music on a super string
Watch me do my thing when the hypodermic stings
I could intervene by turning Mr. Hyde to Mr. Clean
From lean mean dope sick fiend to pristine
Stick to piff and nicotine, quit menacing the scene get medicine from clinics
Say your penance when its finished then its Venice in a vintage rented tinted limousine
Big things, big screens with big brother's ugly mug
Selling us a pyramid scheme like a fucking drug
And love died with the troubadours, now its all ego driven
We're fetal position with the needle dripping
A foul ecosystem, keep on living, be persistent
In a prison where heaven and hell are equidistant
Give 'em two sets Marie Antoinette necks
Stakes is High's in the cassette deck take it back

>> No.12356742

>>12356667
This is alright.
I know the ghetto is a big factor for a lot of these guys, but rapping about it for literally decades starts to make it feel samey.

>> No.12356749

>>12356202
the shallow reverence for these things is quite stark in hip hop and is never truly explored in any profound detail.

>> No.12356751

>>12356087
>gucci gang
>gucci gang
>gucci gang
Poetry. You're simply a onions boy if you disagree

>> No.12356755

>>12356740
>>12356667
doggerel, anon. Sorry to say.

>> No.12356764

>>12356740
White Americans are better at rap than nigs lmao

>> No.12356765

I’ve been searching for God in the bottle he gave me
Ashes to Ashes, dearly departed, regarded as Holy
Don't hold me, don't hold me
When niggas is dying and dying
And I’m afraid of the dark
Blue and the white
Badges and pistols rejoice in the night
And we watch the news
And we see him die tonight
Tonight the night his baby said goodbye
Roses in the road, teddy bear outside
Bullet there on the right
Where’s love when you need it
Too many babies in suits
Too many babies in suits
Back before the dawn
Ricochet the pawn
Bullet in the chest
You ain’t mean no harm
Collecting your check mate
I know you in love with the power
Its flowers at every occasion
I need me a medicine man
Somebody heal me
Somebody take my hand

>> No.12356769

>>12356755
I know you're baiting, but elaborate on why Deca is poor verse.

>> No.12356772

>>12356647
>>12356672
>>12356715

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Jmuhy5O04

Or, consider "That's that" which is like...Joycean rap?

>> No.12356780

>>12356765
Literally Rupi Kaur tier.

>> No.12356783

>>12356769
what the fuck is deca

>> No.12356797

>>12356772
Make Finnegan's Wake seem intelligible. Not good.

>> No.12356803

>>12356783
The artist whose verse you called doggerel.

>> No.12356807

>>12356803
Which one is that?

>> No.12356829

Digable Planets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgCu9zCOIQ

>> No.12356831

>>12356772
To be fair, DOOM is like some strange abomination in the rap world. He's almost an outsider artist.

>> No.12356832

>>12356715
Contrived and lame similes. Jumbled rhythm that requires awkward scansion in order to work. Poor

>> No.12356836

>>12355288
>INTERIOR CROCODILE ALLIGATOR
>I DRIVE A CHEVROLET MOVIE THE-A-TER
I'll let you be the judge, OP.

>> No.12356839

>>12356807
Oh fuck off.

>> No.12356852

AY YO
AY YO
YOU FIT INTO ME
(yeahhh)
LIKE A HOOK INTO AN EYE
A FISH HOOK
(ohhh)
AN OPEN EYE
AY YO
AY YO

>> No.12356854

>>12356115
And blatant racists have no claim to ever speak on literature. How's that Othello reading coming, anon, or have you been keeping yourself away from it for now? Don't worry, I'm sure with enough rationalization you can read it and convince yourself that Shakespeare hated them blacks too, just like you do.

>> No.12356866

>>12356839
haha which one is it dikhead?

>> No.12356867

>>12356854
Wasn't Othello a moor?

>> No.12356876

>>12356866
I don't know, I forgot how to Google the first line of a song that I don't know.

>> No.12356891

>>12356854
Othello is not in any way a favorable portrayal of blacks. Have you read it?

>> No.12356895

>>12356854
>Othello is written as an overly jealous retard who is so stupid and bestial he is manipulated by a white edgelord to kill his own wife for no reason other than the flimsiest of evidence
>only other major explicitly black character in the canon is Aaron the Moor who is a walking talking /pol/ meme
Yeah Will sure loved them blacks.

>> No.12356900

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6FxCHcBB2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzvL4O3uomg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBhwGSAQxk

I can give you more examples if you want

>> No.12356902

>>12356876
why you quote it if you don't know it?

>> No.12356908

>>12356867
It's debated. Moor could still be an African, and Othello was a slave once, so African is a possibility.

>> No.12356918

>>12356900
If you could give us some actual examples of good rap next that'd be great.

>> No.12356922

>>12356900
I like two of these, but they're not 'poetically' good. Especially gimme the loot, which is just about robbing people remorselessly.

>> No.12356925

>>12356908
>and Othello was a slave once, so African is a possibility.
Good point.

>> No.12356965

>>12355314
The limerick is a form of written poetry.
The bar is set much lower than OP makes it seem.

>> No.12356995

https://youtu.be/QWveXdj6oZU

>> No.12357019

>>12355329
Underrated post

>> No.12357020

>>12355329
How do you feel about things like The Lovely Things Suite: Knots by Watsky? He's a huge poetry dork and it shows.

>> No.12357023

Search in my eyes, and what do you see?
See what you believe creep lost in a dream
Defrost the machine please
What do you mean?
Sweet nonsense, deep-sea monsters and me

>> No.12357026

>>12356891
>>12356895
>Othello is portrayed as the most noble of men in all of his company, who, despite his clearly greater character, must lower himself before leagues of ignoble whites that are his superiors, yet he himself more virtuous than any of them

>Iago, a white man, is portrayed as pure evil, evil for evil's sake, who causes destruction to countless people around him, all because he possibly or not possibly suspects Othello as having slept with his wife (oh pol, even Shakespeare knew of your worst nightmares hundreds of years before you were born!), but is such an absolute knave who lies so casually and often that we can never have any certainty on what his true intentions were. A pure sadist, completely unremorseful, a proto-Joker, and the most evil character Shakespeare ever wrote.

>Ending of the play shows that even someone as honorable as Othello can fall victim to savage impulses, driving home how psychologically fragile interracial romances can be, for all parties involved, but ultimately Iago is still seen as the only villain of the play, and Othello is shown as a "tragic, fallen hero" who fell at the hands of said villain.

I have definitely read it. Could you guys try reading it again, but this time without your /pol/goggles on, and your BLACKED tab still open?

>> No.12357043

>>12356965
This. The question isn't can it qualify as literature, it's is any of it genuinely great.

>> No.12357072

>>12357026
Here's Hugh to tell you why you're full of shit. It's 13 minutes, so you might have to pace yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_es_tmOYY5I

>> No.12357159
File: 47 KB, 368x529, xlyrics.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12357159

Capture a map of the gesture
Back up, add a little accurate fat to the figure
Redo that, move that inward
Zinc white lightning shoots from his fingers
Studio strewn with illusion and tinctures
Stay tuned for the spooky adventures
You can't imagine the stars that align
When a forearm starts foreshortening right
Or a torso hung on a warping spine
In proportion reads as warm and alive
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
And the rest of your life, you beat yourself up


when you judge rap vs poetry in purely poetic terms, it's obviously gonna be the case that rap falls short.

since it's performed, rap can use pauses that poetry cant, to make lines fit together. this is why irregular syllable counts are more acceptable in rap -- it's actually a less limited form than poetry. like e.g. several of the lines above only fit with each other metre-wise by starting on up-beats, which arent obvious when reading. The first verse of Kick in the Door reads terribly but, because of the pauses, flows very well when performed

rappers who come close to being good poetically while not rapping that much about gang culture:
milo aka scallops hotel, aesop rock, earl sweatshirt, busdriver, hemlock ernst, death grips, mf doom aka other aliases, wax

same but with rapping about gang culture:
biggie, chance, kendrick, kanye, nas, gang starr, tyler

>> No.12357168

Rap is only popular because of the pop music it relies on. Nobody would EVER listen to rap lyrics alone, let alone read them.

The only exception are freestyle battles without music. They're entertaining because of the "battle drama" and improvisational skills.
Fun fact: one of the better battle rappers is a white Jew (Iron Solomon). But it would be even more fun if he was allowed to call them niggers and all that, just like they call him cracker... Oh well.

>> No.12357196

>>12357026
>Othello almost immediately plots to kill his wife and one of his friends the second he starts to suspect that they are being unfaithful together.
>virtuous
His nobility is revealed to be a facade halfway through the play. The play does not work if you think he's a good man who is tricked by evil - his "fall" happens too quickly. He had to have been easily jealous and naturally violent beforehand - all racist sterotypes of the time (and now).

>Iago blah blah
Iago is the most prominent character in the play, the most intelligent and the one who drives the entire action. He's pure evil, yes but he's far more charismatic and likable than the protagonist - many actors and directors have noted the frustration of trying to make Othello sympathetic over the years.

>savage impulses
You said it yourself. No-one, not even Iago, acts as savagely and animalistic as Othello does in the latter half of the play. You're aware that a common racist stereotype of black people is that they are overly-passionate morons who can't keep their passions in check? Othello becomes so stupid in his blind rage he doesn't even think of an alibi to absolve himself once he strangles Desdemona. He just goes ahead and does it because he's devolved back into a dumb brute
and he can't help himself.

>driving home how psychologically fragile interracial romances can be
>don't marry a black guy girls, he'll smother you in your bed
Progressive stuff.

For Shakespeare the tragedy is not "good black man brought low by evil racist" but "try as you might, you can't put lipstick on a pig. A Nigger is a Nigger is a Nigger, even when they're trying to be civilized."

Not saying I agree with it but retrospectively putting a liberal spin on a Jacobean drama is mega-retarded.

>> No.12357197

>>12357159
Interesting you picked the second verse. "You can't imagine the rush that ensues when you get three dimensions stuffed into two then it's off to a school where it's all that you do, being trained and observed by a capable few" sold me on Aesop Rock

>> No.12357218

>>12357168
>Nobody would EVER listen to rap lyrics alone, let alone read them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjvzTsSnX9g
this has 20k hits on spotify. the version with a beat has 200k

>>12357197
i was trying to get a longer chunk that made sense on its own

>> No.12357224
File: 61 KB, 900x750, carl-benjamin-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12357224

>>12355288
What's with these homies, dissing my girl?
Why do they gotta front?

>> No.12357334

>>12357168
Irrelevant as fuck—no one actually enjoys listening to poetry read aloud. The exception is spoken word, which actually shares more in common with rap than with poetry.

>> No.12357442

>>12355288
Earl Sweatshirt
A Tribe Called Quest
De La Soul


Doesn’t necesaroly show on every track but Earl especially was influenced by poetry thanks to his dad who was an influential South African poet or something similar.