GoT vs LoTR

[Anonymous No.12340860]

Which one is better /lit/?
I've heard that GRRM is an atheist, so I already have reasons to not like his amoral fantasy

[Anonymous No.12340866]

I don't enjoy fantasy so much but I read pretty much all of Tolkien out of respect.

[Anonymous No.12340868]

>>12340860
Tolkien is better. The Fat Blob added an R to his name just so it resembled Tolkien's. That's how pathetic he is.

[Anonymous No.12340895]

>>12340860
LoTR is good as both a book and a movie.
GoT is good as a TV show.

[Anonymous No.12340900]

>>12340895
The TV show sucks though

[Anonymous No.12341196]

>>12340860
Bump

[Anonymous No.12341219]

Reminder that Tolkien actually finished both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, so Martin's feeble attempts to deflect criticism from his failure to finish A Song of Ice and Fire have no merit.

[Anonymous No.12341221]

>>12340860
Martin is such a cuck..

[Anonymous No.12341249]

>>12340860
Tolkien was racist

[Anonymous No.12341253]

>>12340860
Is it true that Martin is against war?

[Anonymous No.12341261]

>>12341249
Prove it beyond doubt

[Anonymous No.12341270]

>>12341261
go back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.12341280]

>>12340860
One is a original work of art, the other is generic genre fiction with a historical flair.
>>12335944
>>12335944
>>12335944
>>12335944

[Anonymous No.12342159]

They're incomparable.
Tolkien created the mythology of an entire world, beginning with languages and then histories, and the stories of his books sprang from that. It's an incredible literary achievement. In the words of some reviewer, "How, given little over half a century of work, did one man become the creative equivalent of a people?"
Don't let the contrarians fool you into thinking it's some generic fantasy. All the generic fantasy you know is a pale imitation of the lesser bits of his work.

[Anonymous No.12342243]

>>12342159
Based

[Anonymous No.12342258]

>>12340860
Tolkien was on such a different level as both a creator and writer that it's not fair to Martin to compare the two.

Compare Martin to any other contemporary writer of fantasy and you might have a thread. Not that I read modern fantasy at all.

[Anonymous No.12342259]

>>12340900
got is the best tv has to offer

[Anonymous No.12342276]

>>12342259
>
it's not even worthy to be mentioned in the same post as the best TV shows.

[Anonymous No.12342286]

>>12342159
High fantasy began and ended with Tolkien. Everything else that followed (Terry Brooks, GRRM, Robert Jordan, Terry Goodkind, David Farland, etc) is absolute profane derivative trash. Tolkien's work is a major contribution to literature and will be read and studied for many generations to come. The rest is just embarrassing American crap.

[Anonymous No.12342319]

>>12342286

[Anonymous No.12342321]

>>12340895
The books put the show to shame though, the books are fucking incredible I've never flew through a book that size that fast before that. Clash of Kings was so thrilling and full of surprises. So much detail in the politics and every little piece of dialogue/event ends up having some bigger impact. I don't get why the series is so underrated here.

[Anonymous No.12342460]

>>12342321
>muh grimdark realistic fantasy
You people make me sick

[Anonymous No.12342471]

>>12342460
What are you trying to say here exactly? Is the fact that it's realistic in nature supposed to be a bad thing? You know real history is pretty grim as well.

[Anonymous No.12342473]

>>12342259
>true detective
>Dekalog
>twin peaks

[Anonymous No.12342514]

>>12342259
This is a better show than GoT

[Anonymous No.12342748]

>>12342471
His books are juvenile edgy shit, it's derivative and lazy
>DUDE like people aren't good all the time GET IT ?

[Anonymous No.12342808]

>>12342748
If only, but he goes above that, people in his books are NEVER good, at least majority of them.

[Anonymous No.12342903]

>>12342808
>ned stark

[Anonymous No.12342924]

>>12342808
>people in his books are NEVER good
And you actually think that's good?

[Anonymous No.12342947]

>>12342473
True Detective was hit and miss, even in the first season. Dekalog is patrician though.

[Anonymous No.12342957]

>>12340860
LOTR is a timeless classic and has literary merit so they're not even in the same league, but ASOIAF is a fun pulpy series although you'd do yourself a favor to read the historical events it was based on, especially The Hundred Years War, since they're much more intricate and surreal to an extent.

[Anonymous No.12342961]

>>12342259
The Wire, HBO's Rome and The Twilight Zone are.

[Anonymous No.12342983]

From what I've seen in the shows and movies, GoT seems to be more focused on the heroism of its characters while LotR has much better battle scenes.

[Anonymous No.12342988]

>>12342957
>The Hundred Years War
Reckon War of the Roses would be closer to the mark.

[Anonymous No.12342998]

According to his grandson Simon Tolkien, Tolkien in the last years of his life was disappointed by some of the liturgical reforms and changes implemented after the Second Vatican Council:
>I vividly remember going to church with him in Bournemouth. He was a devout Roman Catholic and it was soon after the Church had changed the liturgy from Latin to English. My grandfather obviously didn't agree with this and made all the responses very loudly in Latin while the rest of the congregation answered in English. I found the whole experience quite excruciating, but my grandfather was oblivious. He simply had to do what he believed to be right.

Chaste and breadpilled.

[Anonymous No.12342999]

>>12342983
>GoT seems to be more focused on the heroism of its characters
It's the exact opposite though.

>>12342988
That one, too, for sure, but The Hundred Years War was also a significant influence on it and featured a lot of political intrigue, as well as some rather bizarre individuals, like the French king who thought he was made of glass. History is much stranger than fiction in most cases, if only people cared enough to realize that.

[Anonymous No.12343012]

>>12342998
Tolkien was the best kind of old geezer.

[Anonymous No.12343014]

>>12342998

Based

[Anonymous No.12343136]

>>12341249
wtf I love Tolkien even more now!

[Anonymous No.12343209]

>>12342903
>at least majority of them.

>>12342924
No, it's what I hate about those books and the hype around them.

[Anonymous No.12343214]

>>12342998
based

[Anonymous No.12343616]

Just a reminder: GRRM wanted to do an historical fiction series about the war of the roses but his editor told him that shit wouldn't sell and to change a few names and add a dragon or two.

His idea is basically Abraham lincoln: Vampire hunter but 15 years before post irony was a thing. It's all about timing, man.

[Anonymous No.12343624]

>>12342998
Holy moly, based and redpilled Tolkien,

[Anonymous No.12343645]

>>12343616
Pathetic Martin

[Anonymous No.12343672]

>>12341249
"racism" is just communist for "pattern recognition".

[Anonymous No.12343675]

>>12340860
GoT is a nice tv show.
ASOIAF is the masterpiece you are probably asking about.

[Anonymous No.12343693]

More chad vs virgin memes author edition

[Anonymous No.12343769]

>>12343693
This one isn't even funny.

[Anonymous No.12343779]

>>12343769
Few, if any are.

[Anonymous No.12343785]

>>12343693
Daily reminder that Tolstoy feld guilty for fucking his own wife. He didn't "fucked bitches left and right."

[Anonymous No.12343808]

>>12343693
Am i just as pathetic for liking dostwhisky more than tolstoyingaround?

[Anonymous No.12343826]

>>12340895
LOTR movies are garbage. ASOAIF everything is garbage.
>>12342259
True, but that's because TV degenerated into a garbage medium, it doesn't mean it's actually good.

[Anonymous No.12343835]

Who gives a shit about generic tolkein fantasy these days? GRRM has issues but he's fucking interesting

Show is trash tho

[Anonymous No.12343853]

>>12343785
>Daily reminder that Tolstoy feld guilty for fucking his own wife

Wait what?

[Anonymous No.12343933]

>>12340860
Martin may be an esteemed storyteller (at least by the masses), but he is a horrible writer in the technical sense. His prose was so poor that I couldn't read more than a few pages before giving up on him.

Tolkein was a very skilled writer on top of being a fine storyteller.

[Anonymous No.12343979]

>>12343933
Because Tolkien had stuff to talk about. What is Martin's background? Bartender?

[Anonymous No.12344019]

>>12341270
What, asking for evidence makes you a Nazi now? I thought it was fascists who wanted to do away with due process.

[Anonymous No.12344048]

>>12344019
that's the thing with leftism, it can only exist in a highly moderated space. It cannot hold its own with total free speech.

[Anonymous No.12344088]

>>12343979
Write for the twilight zone

[Anonymous No.12344234]

I really appreciate tolkien but don't really enjoy reading him. I'm a brainlet who doesn't get what makes most of the writing "good" though but for me he just doesn't care about getting you into a scene. He describes stuff and states stuff but i barely felt for the characters

>>12343785
His existential crysis appeared later in life, in his book about figuring shit out (whatever it's called) he writes that he fucked a lot of married women while young as well as obligatory duels. He was a rockstar of his times.

[Anonymous No.12344244]

>>12343979
Someone can be a skilled writer and have nothing to talk about at all. Tolkien both has a lot to say, and the ability to say it in a refined, intelligent manner.

[Anonymous No.12344484]

>>12342998
Incredibly based and also extremely redpilled

[Anonymous No.12344624]

>>12344048
National Socialism is left you fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.12344667]

>>12343616
That's what I get too. It's basically historical fiction while the actual fantasy is uninspired.

[Anonymous No.12345327]

>>12343933
His prose is horrendous and his themes are puerile and juvenile

[Anonymous No.12345361]

>>12340860
>blocks your paths
As successor (and greater) to Tolkien and the daddy of Martin, why shouldn't Jordan be mentioned in these debates?

[Anonymous No.12345369]

>>12345361
>As successor (and greater)
Did you come here to start shit or do you genuine believe this? The latter is worse than the former.

[Anonymous No.12345377]

>>12345361
I actually cringe at this

[Anonymous No.12345408]

>>12340860
Tolkien is to creative literary genius what Martin is to hack pulp idiocy. They both so far surpass anyone else in their field that they will be remembered 1,000 years from now as a kind of yin and yang of fantasy, a Manichean duality of speculative letters. For every sublime, luminous beauty that Tolkien has gifted the world, Martin has cursed us with a tedious, banal ugliness. It is unfair to compare the two directly on any one point, because Martin is in every way the anti-Tolkien, patently sterile, parasitical, and inferior, but so much so that he becomes a monument in his own right, and counterbalances Tolkien. Could one exist without the other? Tolkien obviously could. But it is only by the contrast that Martin offers that we can truly appreciate the full depths and heights of Tolkien. Our understanding of Tolkien would be incomplete if Martin had never set pen to page. It is through only the abject failure and futility of Martin that we can approach an apprehension of the true scope and scale of Tolkien's hitherto inconceivable greatness. Perhaps this is what Tolkien had in mind when he wrote about the Music of the Ainur. If Tolkien is a subcreator in the image of Eru, truly Martin is like unto Melkor. It is only reflected in the awfulness of the one that we can fully see the goodness of the other.

[Anonymous No.12345429]

>>12345369
>>12345377
I love Tolkien, but Jordan improved upon him in almost every way. His world is not so well thought out by any matter, but characters are more complex, villains more competent, and he allows the other half of the human race to take part in the story.
Martin is just a historical fiction author who couldn't be bothered studying history.

[Anonymous No.12345437]

>>12341249
based

[Anonymous No.12345469]

>He [Tolkien] once said, "It may be said that the chief purpose of life, for any one of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks."
Based and Christpilled

No point in comparison to the degenerate pornographer Martin.

[Anonymous No.12345479]

>>12340860
Martin Will never write an passage as good as this one

[Anonymous No.12345517]

It's kinda funny that all GRRM books are solved through christianity but he is too brainlet to realize that arc so he can't finish it

[Anonymous No.12345554]

>>12345517
explain

[Anonymous No.12345565]

>>12345554

Basically read any gospel and compare the anguish that GRRM tries to portray with their good characters

[Anonymous No.12345577]

>>12345565

However GRRM already fucked up because their books read as almost irony, in the sense that it's what an atheist describes from a world that should be redeemed by a christian arc, and how from that viewpoint that redemption will never come, he focuses on all worldy matters (taxes, economy, power) and doesn't realize the struggle in his fantasy world is completely spiritual

[Anonymous No.12345634]

>>12345517
>>12345565
>>12345577
Isn't Jon Snow's arc basically gonna be Jesus arc? Especially now after he dies and is resurrected

[Anonymous No.12345651]

>>12345634

Except if you knew Jon Snow life you wouldn't call him the messiah because he isn't divine as Jesus, the messiah needs to be god himself or perfect like him to make the arc make sense

The power of being redeemed by god is not the same of being redeemed by a man that's selfless just sometimes

[Anonymous No.12345667]

>>12345651
Well yes, but it doesn't have to be a perfect analogy. Besides Jon Snow is likely the reincarnation/avatar of Azor Ahai, which makes him special. Add to that he has a special origin/parentage and is most likely the prince that was promised.

[Anonymous No.12345708]

>>12345667

I could argue that the GRRM arc is too political and it reseembles more the judaistic messiah that will rule the kingdom than the christian one

[Anonymous No.12345801]

>>12345708
I can see that

[Anonymous No.12345899]

>>12340895
Only seasons 1-3, with 4 being serviceable. 5-7 are total tripe.

[Anonymous No.12345971]

>>12340860
Martin is vinegar to Tolkien's wine

it's insulting to even mention that fat fucking neckbeard.

[Anonymous No.12346023]

I'm a kind-hearted person, but I really do wish a slow and agonising death on Martin

he doesn't deserve the quick heart attack that will end him

[Anonymous No.12346110]

>>12342998
>Be a religion where majority of your text is written in Greek
>Non Greek speaking priests change the language accordingly to spread the message towards the native speakers of the era
>Fast forward years
>the language change is taken as something holy even after the tongue is spoken by no one
>people autistically screech when Vatican tries to use native language of people.

[Anonymous No.12346524]

>>12340860
Tolkien

[Anonymous No.12346616]

>>12340860
Tolkien was chaste and breadpilled, Martin is slave and fleshpilled

[Anonymous No.12346721]

who the fuck cares, I've read from both authors and enjoy them equally and they're both good in their own merit.

[Anonymous No.12346724]

>>12340860
Virgin vs Chad memes only work when the Chad is the one that's clearly inferior IMO, otherwise it's just a case of "punching down."

[Anonymous No.12346753]

>>12346721
Because Tolkien was a devout Catholic that created a vast and detailed world to show the virtues of man and the Trasncendental
Martin is

[Anonymous No.12346757]

>>12346110
All of these things are irrelevant; whats important is that Latin, for all intents and purposes, fulfilled the function of the "divine language" of Catholic civilisation. I'm not even a Catholic, and if anything I find dogmatic Christianity a little weird, but even I can admit that the turn from Latin to vernacular did a lot of damage to the concept of the Church being the "holy place" in the world.

[Anonymous No.12346776]

>>12345708
Even the Jewish Messiah, whilst having obvious political aspects, still fundamentally draws his power and authority from God, not to mention how the return of the Messiah is explicitly said to coincide with a 1000-year peace institute by God himself.

ASoIaF is what happens when enlightened atheists try to make a metaphysical story without the metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.12347048]

>King so evil he reigned 6 years and 66 days.

Bravo Martin!

[Anonymous No.12347067]

>>12347048
dear god is the prose in his novels that fucking bad?
he cant finish his novels in like a fucking month?

[Anonymous No.12347127]

>>12340868
Wikipedia says Richard is his confirmation name from when he was 13.

[Anonymous No.12348230]

>>12340860
A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms>Everything else having to do with A Song of Ice and Fire

[Anonymous No.12348268]

>>12345479
>smote
Argh the cod-epic stuff in the later parts of LotR grinds my gears. First book is the best written because he wasn't trying to write the Bible

[Anonymous No.12348278]

>>12342159
>generic fantasy
I never understood this.
When i think generic fantasy i think something more akin to DnD, LoTR is unique.
One of those things where the supposed "generic" setting is rarely, if ever, actually used.

[Anonymous No.12348288]

>>12342321
He just sets the chapters out well, hitting you with a cliffhanger followed by boring shit over and over.
Its like a civilization game. You're not actually having fun but you keep pressing next turn.

[Anonymous No.12348316]

>>12346757
Latin was the vernacular language though, If anything divine it should be Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic.
Latin only became ''divine'' because people stop speaking it.

[Anonymous No.12348351]

>>12340860
tolkien copied shakespeare, with an eye for history and myth that gave him a unique flair
martin copied tolkien, with a cynicism that'd become blase decades ago and all the rote pedantry you'd expect from a television writer

[Anonymous No.12348669]

>>12348268
LotR is one book dummy.
And anyways he uses the word smote in Fellowship, so I don't really know what you are talking about.

[Anonymous No.12348696]

>>12348278
That's what he means though. Considering game designers and YA novelists are still trying to find ways to make "elves are pretty, dwarves drink a lot" interesting says a lot about how much of a sledgehammer Tolkien was to the human imagination, and how High Fantasy will never truly separate itself from him.

[Anonymous No.12348759]

>>12340895
>LoTR is good as both a book and a movie.
>GoT is good as a TV show
100% agree with this post.

[Anonymous No.12348876]

>>12347067
not a novel. it's his fake fucking history text.

[Anonymous No.12349068]

>>12340860
>the land of always winter

Only a retard would think this placeholder should not be a placeholder.

[Anonymous No.12349084]

>>12342473
True detective is SHIT. Dekalog doesn't count as a TV show. Twin peaks is alright, I guess.