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/lit/ - Literature

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12313905 No.12313905 [Reply] [Original]

why do people on this board get so hostile whenever french theory is mentioned?

>> No.12313939

>>12313905
oui oui jai like baguette et le cheesewheel et les molests zee chiledrun hon hon vood yew aime to signer mon petition pour, how you say, get rids off le age du consent mon ami

>> No.12313948

Because most people, especially autistics on the internet/academics, are what are called "Rationalists" or "Literalists".

They believe in the formal logic, e.g. "explicitness" of information, thought, communication, etc.

And are terrible at understanding the "implicitness" of information, thought, communication, etc.

Like when a couple in a relationship have an "argument" about who it was that "parked the car too close to the neighbor's driveway last saturday", you better believe the motivations behind that argument have ZERO to do with who/how close the car was parked to the neighbor's driveway, and EVERYTHING to do with how one partner wants more or less of "X" in the relationship, and the other partner wants more or less of "Y" in the relationship.

People online are largely online because it fulfills what they can't get offline.

Would you like to know more?

>> No.12313949

dont worry so much about french theory. Worry about if people start deciding to kill you.

>> No.12313952

>>12313939
For the uninitiated
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws

>> No.12313969

>>12313948
Good post. Go on.

>> No.12314016

Do they? I'd guess a majority here is sympathetic to it.

>> No.12314019

>>12313952
Based

>> No.12314045

>>12313905
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVBOtxCfan0

>> No.12314071

>>12314016
They are, I've never even seen textualism even discussed on /lit/.

>> No.12314085

>>12313969

>>12313969

To generalize, the french theorists were absolutley confused with modern life.

The largely came about post WWII.

You had the high middle ages (decent art), then The Renaissance, The Scientific Revolution, The Enlightenment, brilliant philsophical investigations by all over europe, the germans, the french, the dutch, the spaniards, Kant, Descartes, Spinoza, etc. The Industrial Age, The Periodic Table, Optics, Electricity, innovations in material science, human flight (i'm missing/leaving out a ton), medicine, vaccinations, and then BOOM:

WWI

then boom:

WWII (Atomic Bomb, literally)

The French Theorists were puzzled with how their could be so much refinement, so much ingenuity, so much human brilliance, and in a heartbeat the entire continent of Europe lost it's mind (and Japan was Nuked).

They were attempting to deconstruct/reconstruct just how the human race could have been lead down this path (i'm not arguing for, nor against them, just, that this is what they were attempting).

They were experiemental detectives trying to find the flaw somewhere, anywhere, how could progress be so dangerous? Was there going to be another WORLD WAR in a decade or two?

WWII was another order of magnitude more destructive/vicious than WWI.

All we had gotten better at was killing eachother, more efficiently.

They were trying to piece together what was the virus in the system. Could have been politics? Democracy is no good? Facism has it's upside? Anarchy? Religion? Scientific Principles? Rationality itself? Is individuality important? Who are we? No, who are we really?

They even played with language and made up their own language--like a rorschach test for the reader.

Maybe Plato was a fool? Maybe Kant didn't go far enough? Hegel, Heidegger, Nietzsche, etc. They were all reinterpreted and creatively played with.

Some called themselves Historians, some said "I don't do philosophy, I do Hermeneutics", some tried to distance themselves altogether, e.g. Lacan and "the real", many subscribed to psychoanalysis.

The best way to communicate the spirit and energy of the times is one of complete and total war and destruction in europe, confusion about just what exactly "progress" means, and the fear and distrust in nearly all systems, and the ever bureaucratizing world and media systems disseminating information.

All as we went to the moon and continued nuclear armament.

They were highly skeptical of everything. And they thought maybe the

Hell even the ancient stoics used to hit themselves over with rocks to change their perceptions, or starve themselves, exercise all day, and cook a huge mean and feed it to their slaves, just to practice being able to "control" their emotions and feelings.

The french theorists were big-time experimenters, and without the full weight of understanding the dire times which explain the "why" and the "how", it would be easy to dismiss them.

>> No.12314093

>>12313905
these are controversial philosophers anywhere, anyone who just believes anything they say without question is a pseud

>> No.12314104

>>12313905
the fagginess and arrogance of the people championing them.

>> No.12314113

>>12314085
>The french theorists were big-time experimenters
What? they weren't, compared to the modernist literature postmodern literature was outright conservative in form.

>> No.12314124

>>12313905
A reaction against what brainlet Left have done through misrepresenting their work.

>> No.12314126

>>12314104
this

>> No.12314142

Because french everything after about 1700 is a bad idea.

I mean really, france was the heart of europe for a while there, but it modern times it's kind of trash heap the produces staggeringly bad ideas, one after the other.

>> No.12314151

>>12314085
>Japan was Nuked)
Oh please. This is so entirely blown out of proportion when compared to what the Japanese did to other Asians especially the Chinese or what the firebombing campaigns accomplished. The use of nuclear weapons is far too dramatized. 50k Americans died on Okinawa alone, a few weeks before the dropping... and was incidental not essential to American strategy of winning unconditionally against a radical imperialistic society that was willing to fight to the death with no foreseeable alternatives.

>> No.12314165

>>12314104
This desu. God it makes me sick. The only person who pulls it off is Trump and he's a fucking Scotch German.

>> No.12314189

>>12314151
Colonialism is important for progress, nuking innocents is not.

>> No.12314222

>>12314189
>innocents
>in war
How very modernist of you.

>> No.12314235

>>12314222
If they are not canon fodder they are working people, therefore innocent.

>> No.12314577

>>12313948
thats just a fancy word for argueing in favor of being obscure instead of explaining your shit in a clear and organized fashion. take OPs pick for example, all three of those fuckers are (maybe fucault less than the other two) as obscure as you can get without any sort of valid justification to be it so. why? because after them, there usually comes a legion of people "explaining" what they are supposed to say or how you are supposed to interpret them. its just pure bullshit, why do you need someone else doing the explanation? it makes absolutely no sense.
even mythology is not obscure. it might be broad imagery, but the message is conveyed almost instantly through out the entire story. thats why all, if not most, myths also work as short stories for kids (or anyone for that matter) even though you can also study them and go deep within those stories.
and being french is not an argument, plenty of french people opted and argued in favor of fucking clarity, actual writers ala balzac, victor hugo, etc. you might not like their work, but its considered international culture for a reason.
derrida, lacan, deleuze, you could read their shit and either a) not get it because of the obscurity and randomness of their imagery or b) get it and realize they are saying nothing new, only in a convoluted retarded "im special but you wont know it" kind of way.

>> No.12314594

>>12313905
Maybe because Sasha Grey is this theory's most important living intellectual.

>> No.12314610
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12314610

>>12313948
>People online are largely online because it fulfills what they can't get offline.
we truly live in a society

>> No.12314618

french people are responsible for everything wrong with the west.

>> No.12314623

>>12314085
>They were trying to piece together what was the virus in the system. Could have been politics? Democracy is no good? Facism has it's upside? Anarchy? Religion? Scientific Principles? Rationality itself? Is individuality important? Who are we? No, who are we really?

But they weren't.

>> No.12314679

>>12314618

>American Economic and Cultural Hegemony
>English is the lingua franca of the world
>Most important economic institutions are in the US and UK
>popular music, film and entertainment in general are dominated by the US
>American educational institutions are the most internationally prestigious, followed by the big british schools
>American politics dominate international conversation to the point that American political theory has infected the rest of the world

>somehow the state of the West is the gaul’s fault

Anglos are a cancer on the earth

>> No.12314702

>>12314679
>socialism

>> No.12314751

literally all french girls have appeared in a porn at some point in their life, it's just part and parcel of growing up in france.

>> No.12314769

>>12314085
Awful, awful post

>> No.12314829

>>12313948
>especially autistics on the internet/academics
you mean analytic philosophers, continental academics are all about the french

>> No.12314840

>>12313952
>reject a bad law
>they had to be against the concept of the law!

>> No.12314851

Arrogant America snobbery mostly

Case in point >>12314618
Just brazen flatulence

>> No.12314860

>>12313905
Because they’re bullshit unprovable “ theories”

>> No.12314878

>>12314142
This desu

>> No.12314885

>>12314151
This

>> No.12314922

>>12313905
>why don't more like people smug, blatant trolls who also speak french
Yeah, no idea.

>> No.12314969

>>12313905
Because they are stupid monkeys

>> No.12314992

>>12314577

Oh I agree.

And that is the common criticism that you're launching against them. And I think it's valid.

I'm just trying to articulate what I think they were going for.

Again, we're completley generalizing here, but that was undoubtedly the philosophical mood of the 20th century, and particularly post-WWII, which didn't exaclty "slow down" fascist attitudes.

All the way up to present day, where up is down, left is right, good is bad, and tomorrow it's all reversed.

As much as I do think a lot of their work is impenetrable (particularly baudrillard), some of their critiques are spot on, and there is a reason they are still studied, hell even Frued is making a comeback in academia, and sexuality field research has proven a fair amount of his sexual fantasy stuff (which is fucking fascinating), and yeah, he was wrong about a ton of shit--but so was every phsyicist, chemist, and engineer, on their way actually discovering/synthesizing/inventing something.

You've cited Balzac and Hugo who were born 120+ years before these guys.

Pictured are Derrida, Deleuze, and Foucault, they all had their own wild way of interpreting History, Plato, Metaphysics, etc.

WWI & WWII changed everything (whether it was really that "important" is irrelevant, because it's clearly been accepted as such).

Obscurity is as old a criticism as the first instances of human writings.

Mysticism is essentially a questioning of human capacity and rationality, which is still to this day debated, and even fundamental modern psych/neuro research seems to be hashing that out.

I'm not saying the criticism of them being "obscurants" isn't valid, I'm saying their response would likely be "Yes. And....?"

And then proceed to critique "rationality" and "reason".

>> No.12314999
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12314999

>>12313905
because fuck niggers that's why

>> No.12315038

Because post modern marxism is cancer

>> No.12315492

>>12314769

REKT

>> No.12315538

>>12314151


What are you 9 years old?

The nuclear bombs were dropped for a myriad of reasons, but clearly it was meant to be a threaten display of power, and thus, dissuasion.

Any video of testing, and airplane footage clearly shows a power and force the likes of which had never before been in the hands of humans.

Theorists aren't bought by politicization (which is always tribal) nor spectacles, their primary interest was in the trajectory--of which they were absolutely correct--in the ensuing nuclear arms race.

>> No.12315542

My black son is gay and loves Foucault.

>> No.12315546

the french have such an unwarranted arrogance about them, it's so incredibly off putting

>> No.12315550

>>12315542
Faggot

>> No.12316769

>>12313952
There is nothing wrong with young adults (60 year olds fucking 15 year olds is just perverted) having sex with pubescent, completely natural and normal, the more pressing concern is the hyper-sexuality of today's culture among both adults and pubescents.