/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12306006]

>blocks your criticism of the nuclear family
pssht nothing personnel

[Anonymous No.12306019]

Everyone agrees the nuclear family is neat. They just disagree with the strategies suggested to increase the number of nuclear households.

[Anonymous No.12306023]

>the virgin nuclear family
>the Chad extended family

[Anonymous No.12306035]

“Criticism” of the nuclear family is subversive and dangerous

[Anonymous No.12306040]

>>12306006
“There’s a reason they call it nuclear...because it’s destructive” -some dumb bitch at my school

[Anonymous No.12306057]

>>12306019
If only this were true—but modern society loves its awful institutions, welfare and abortion and queers and no-fault divorce.

[Anonymous No.12306077]

>>12306019
No they dont, especially not back in the 70's. Feminists really hated it, and if you go back further, then most commies did as well. It's only in recent decades that they've given up on destroying it, now that it's become apparent that you need a nuclear family and that it's not going away.

[Anonymous No.12306088]

>>12306023
clan/dynastic systems > extended families > nuclear families >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foster homes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alienated de-socialized tech-spawn

[Anonymous No.12306130]

>>12306088
>yeah bro just fracture society, look how well the Middle East is doing

[Anonymous No.12306154]

>>12306130
How did that post imply we should fracture society

[Anonymous No.12306318]

>>12306130
>he thinks the state of the middle east is due to their family structure and not a combination of polygamy, botched decolonization, and subsequent power games between the USSR and US

[Anonymous No.12306326]

>>12306006
The nuclear family is dogshit . Anyone who claims that it's a historic family unit or that it's part of human nature is the worst kind of brainlet. The extended family unit is a far superior model.

[Anonymous No.12306367]

>>12306326
I agree, but a nuclear family can persist in a modern society, an extended family cannot. But you must keep in mind that Lasch was defending the family against those who wanted to have no family at all, which is infinitely worse and would bring ruin to everyone.

[Anonymous No.12306387]

>>12306367
I don't think an extended family can't persist in the modern age, it's simply that technological and societal developments economically encourage alienation and individuation and discourage community and families. At the cost of social and cultural progress, of course.

[Anonymous No.12306467]

>>12306326
Fuck extended family, my cousins are cunts.

[Anonymous No.12306480]

>>12306367
I think increasing property prices and overpopulation, especially in Europe, will lead to more and more extended families living together. Its already happening where young people can't afford property and so are raising their own children in the family home owned by the grandparents.

[Anonymous No.12306652]

>>12306367
I know it's better than nothing (although a bad family can do just as much damage as no family), but I'm just tired of seeing traditionalist LARPers show complete ignorance to how families have actually been historically structured.

This >>12306480 sums up my thoughts exactly though. I have no plans to leave my parent's house any time soon for exactly these reasons.

[Anonymous No.12306716]

>>12306019
It's literally just a higher form of prostitution.You're literally paying a women to pretend to give a fuck about you and maybe take care of some genetic offspring. Any emotional dimension is just false romanticism.

>>12306367
>a nuclear family can persist in a modern society

No it really can't, its been breaking down because the very specific set of circumstances that let it become totally hegemonic aren't in place any more. It can continue as a bourgeois ideal but most won't be able to afford it.

[Anonymous No.12306721]

>>12306019
nuclear family is deconstruction of a healthy traditional society supported only by capitalist individualists who want to make a profit at the expense of everything that is good and holy

[Anonymous No.12306739]

>>12306716
>You're literally paying a women to pretend to give a fuck about you and maybe take care of some genetic offspring
t. someone who never had a family and now wants others to suffer like he has.

[Anonymous No.12306747]

>>12306716
*tips fedora*

[Anonymous No.12306752]

>>12306739
t. delusional slave whos made a horrible investment

[Anonymous No.12306760]

>>12306752
>having a family is a horrible investment
>"h-ha im not like those slaves, i g-go my own way and am totally not l-lonely"
Those grapes were sour anyway, right?

[Anonymous No.12306832]

>>12306318
Don't forget low IQ!

[Anonymous No.12306855]

>Have kids
>Kids end up screaming all the time and you can't read in peace
>End up having to wageslave to support them
Why do people on /lit/ keep fetishizing family? You can't have a /lit/ life with children.

[Anonymous No.12306998]

>>12306855
Because having children is ultimately worth more than reading. Doesnt matter whether it's reading, or sporting, or travelling or whatever, you'll eventually feel a void that cannot be filled by anything other than a family. And when you find out, it's often too late.

[Anonymous No.12307147]

>>12306760
They literally are, there's studies on this.

[Anonymous No.12307152]

>>12306998
procreation is immoral tho, read a book

[Anonymous No.12307157]

>>12307147
>Implying social psychology is to be trusted

[Anonymous No.12307160]

>>12307147
asceticism > having a family > being an average person > being a bum > eating cow shit >being raped by kevin stacey by the weekends > being a schizo beggar > caring about money and career

[Anonymous No.12307164]

>>12307157
I mean selective skepticism works for anti-vaxxers and YECs so go for it

[Anonymous No.12307175]

>>12307164
The evidence behind vaccines doesnt have a giant replication crisis like psychology.

[Anonymous No.12307246]

>>12306023
This. The more, the merrier, senpai.

[Anonymous No.12307315]

>have live in tribes for the entire existence of humans
>humans evolve into clans/extended families
>atomize families into "nuclear family" breaking down all traditional aspect of the tribal unit humans used our entire existence
>THIS ATOMIZED INVENTION CALLED THE "NUCLEAR FAMILY" IS PERFECT AND TOTALLY FLAWLESS
>western civilization collapses inward because all the support, tradition, family, and all other aspect die
>HEY! YOU ATOMIZED OUR ATOMIZED UNIT TOO FAR!!! JEWS DID THIS!!! REEEEEE
you guys are so fucking stupid it's really unbelievable sometimes. you can see your piece of shit nuclear family being at the crux of why the west is shit. it's all about forcing kids out of their family at 18 and trying to turn them into consumerist trash. it worked so well for all the boomoids who wrecked the west didn't it?

nowadays you see "nuclear families" using their dead children to virtue signal about how much they love tacos because they're mentally ill and don't even know what family is. "nuclear family" isn't real family.

[Anonymous No.12307350]

>>12307315
this needs to be stickied as obligatory read for everyone ever posting on 4chan

[Anonymous No.12307434]

>>12307315
>>12307350
Got any lit/reads on how the transition from extended family to nuclear family happened?

[Anonymous No.12307452]

>>12307434
If memory serves its something to do with the industrial revolution separating us out into individual wagies rather than all working on the same farm, then double fucked in the 20th century by cars and suburbs.

[Anonymous No.12307490]

>>12307434
The Frankfurt School.

[Anonymous No.12307612]

>>12307490
eh, it seems like a rather small part of their work, and not their focus (unlike with Lasch).

[Anonymous No.12308120]

>>12307246
exactly

[Anonymous No.12308244]

>>12306367
> a modern society
be gone tech worshiper. It's not an unstoppable force.

[Anonymous No.12308253]

>>12306716
>. Any emotional dimension is just false romanticism
material things, including food and water come and go, are they just illusions when they are there? Should we give up on the goal of eating as well?

[Anonymous No.12308261]

>>12308244
I dont like it either, but i foresee no soon end to this society of ours. At least not one that won't take the human species down with it.

[Anonymous No.12308301]

>>12306023
this. the nuclear family is the dumbest shit and its no wonder there's so much alienation and loneliness in the west since it became the ideal

[Anonymous No.12308305]

>>12306077
why the FUCK are you people so retarded. The """nuclear family""" has existed for a century if we're being INCREDIBLY charitable.

[Anonymous No.12308328]

>>12307315
Based.

[Anonymous No.12308329]

>>12307315
The extended family was a farm for pederasty and was rightfully junked.

[Anonymous No.12308352]

>>12308329
you are indistinguishable from a suburban housewife

[Anonymous No.12308390]

>>12307315
>>12307350
>>12307452
>>12307490
t. 19 year old who hasn't really read much anthropology literature

Extended family/kin-network was the model for child rearing but the children lived with the parents and the father was in charge of instructing and transferring values to the son, the mother teaching both children the basics of their culture and the daughter how to be a good wife, the older brothers their younger sibling how to hunt and fight and carry himself properly. You spent significantly more time among your parents' parents, siblings, cousins etc but they didn't literally raise you without your parents in very close proximity and other families, while certainly very involved in your upbringing did not have responsibility towards you. The clans were also all very closely related genetically and you would never have been raised by someone from another clan unless you were adopted. You wouldn't let another person of a different tribe teach your son culture or how to fight or to speak and you certainly wouldn't let your daughter spend time in close proximity to men from a weak family or enemy tribe. Everything radiated out of the nuclear family, the difference now is that your grandparents and extended family live in different counties or states and are a cyclical and infrequent presence in your life rather than chronic background to your entire development. But, this notion on the Left that like some family adjacent to yours could just come into your home and pick you up and start instructing you is outrageous, your father and mother chose who you were associated with and they were almost always tied by blood one way or another.

It wasn't Jews of course, though it is remarkable how communist jews propagate the notion that having wives in common, having children in common, having sex with children, sexually socializing children as a collective effort, marriage, social contracts based in blood and martial-marital alliances are not real or were the case for most primitive peoples. In ancient Greece your father and your brothers were more important than your neighbors always, and your mother and her slaves were the one's who taught you how to conduct yourself and do the most basic subsistence tasks.

[Anonymous No.12308449]

>>12308390
yeah but did you notice that all that shit you wrote has nothing to do with the post you are responding to?

[Anonymous No.12308450]

>>12308390
Nothing in your argument refutes the supremacy of the extended family, you just said over and over again that your immediate family had the largest role in raising their children, a point which is fucking obvious.

[Anonymous No.12308547]

>>12308244
Woah, you're the worshiper here buddy. Nothing but Jesus can stop machine.

[Anonymous No.12308564]

>>12307160
Asceticism without spiritual apotheosis in mind is empty and pointless.

[Anonymous No.12308572]

>>12306057
Honestly don't think any of those are a result of wanting to destroy the nuclear family.
And even if possibly granted that those ideas were started for that end, I don't think people who support it have that in mind explicitly.

[Anonymous No.12308586]

>>12306998
> this is what breeders actually believe

[Anonymous No.12308591]

>>12308449
The implication of the post is that the immediate family was not a position of primacy and that the child was raised by the extended family, which is really meant to mean the whole community (which is in turn intended to support wives and children in common, having sex with children, having people of other races raising children, having children taken from their parents at birth, deciding for parents what is taught to and what happens to their children). At no point was the animeposting retard being honest, nor is the thing they are parrotting, veyr poorly, meant to be honest. Communists and the left don't actually intend for a tribe of homogenous, closely related families to raise their children like hunter gatherers would they intend for a gigantic commune of hundreds of thousands of unrelated people to be run by worker's councils, for children to live in dorms, for women to be pooled together and expected to spread their legs as a service and for men to be educated by women, and to be sexualized at a young age and to be given culture by anyone in the community, not hierarchically stratified elders whose rank stems from both age and accomplishment and who are also closely related to the child. Nothing in these statements is deep, or is meant to evince some hidden layer of complexity. It is literally repackaged mainstream progressive assaults on the family while paying the most shallow lip service to the community and tribe. None of the people who say this actually want to live in a racially homogenous tribe of related families with traditional gender roles. Do they mention that men hunt, that men ignored the sons until they reached prepubescence that the women basically were responsible for producing most of the food and teaching the children to not be killed by rotten meals or wild animals or disease? No.
>>12308450
The extended family was only supreme insofar as your grandfather and grandmother chose your mate for you and that you had to pay respects to them and if called upon by a cousin or brother-in-law for support in a dispute you were expected to rise to the occassion unfailingly. Your father still had the right to kill you if you disobeyed him, to beat your sister for being dishonorable, to take you on hunting and war expeditions, to give you the secrets of his craft and to initiate you into the men's society. It was radiating concentrically organized kin networks, not a web of guardians inter pares who had equal rights to do as they pleased with you. If your father was subordinate to another man's family for whatever historical reason, yes he would adopt you, you spent a large amount of time with him and his male kin, the women of that family thought of you as a sibling or child, and you would likely be married to his daughters. There is a liminal nature to these relations but this does not imply no demarcation between you immediate blood and your extended family.

[Anonymous No.12308625]

>>12308450
>>12308449
For instance among the plains indians, among the siberian hunter gatherers, papuans etc. Its not only extremely common for brothers to cuck each other, to murder each other, to steal from one another but you were expected to support them if they did not bring dishonor upon you and if they had immediate blood or marital or political ties to you. Among the same ethnic group different clans would war with one another and even among the same clan many branches of that family would war with each other and neglect or oppress each other. The killing of children who are not yours was extremely common even within the same village, alpha males are notorious both among apes and primitive humans for infanticide of even closely related small children. There are countless ethnographic reports of South American males bash the skulls in of toddlers who belong to their distant cousins and live in the same village for very petty offenses and grievances against them. You are construing a very limited scope of egalitarian concern for childrearing and political affiliation found in some horticulturalist and hunter-gatherer societies with most hunter gatherer societies and primitive cultures. Its simply not true, and more importantly is wishful thinking and comes from an anachronistic attempt at revising history to fit the whims of utopian collectivism where women are shared in common regardless of affiliation or political advantage, where men are raised in dorms, where kids are taught sex by the communal mother and uncle and where its ok to force whatever the collective believes on the children divorced from elite established hierarchical mandates and codes of conduct stemming from founding stock and stewarding elders from high social status families. Its not representative of how humans organize themselves and it is made as vague and as broad as possible when discussed by the left and egalitarians so as to avoid having to answer for the implications and desired ends of these notions.

You are not being honest and there is no reason to grant that you mean what you say or know what you mean when you say it.

[Anonymous No.12308777]

>>12308591
>>12308625
>no point was the animeposting retard being honest
>posts a bunch of schizo babble unrelated and wrong trying to obscure the conversation and misdirect the point
first, what the extended family did was relative to the exact culture they were part of. all your schizo babble trying to talk about exactly how they are is irrelevant cause it's culturally. second, i never alluded that your parents didn't raise you, fucking idiot. it is dependent on the exact time, place, and culture but regardless of which part raised you exactly doesn't fucking even matter. what matters is it's not an atomized "nuclear family" that was invented in the 20th century fucking idiot. your parents raising you isn't a "nuclear family". it's your parents raising you. a "nuclear family" is about trying to get the parents to kick the kid out and have all the family spread across different places isolated so their tradition, values, views, and everything else is learned in public schools. in extended/close family you get all your views from your family who are helping your interest by proxy. instead western dumb fucks like you want to isolate them in "nuclear family" where public schools teach them everything.

if a single mother is shit then why is one raising a son by herself while the father is away good? THEY AREN'T. aunts, cousins, grandfathers, and other serve as role models not some woman while the father is at work constantly.

"nuclear family" is shit and fuck you for your schizo babble unrelated to my post. extended families by the simple fact they have your blood are more interested in your well-being than isolated "nuclear family" growing up on television in public schools. bad apples don't make the entire history of humans tribalism wrong.

[Anonymous No.12308786]

>>12308777
absolutely based

[Anonymous No.12309082]

>>12306716
t. Reptile tier social skills

[Anonymous No.12309114]

>>12307175
Social psychology is an abhorrent field that developed fairly independently of clinical psychology

[Anonymous No.12309128]

>>12308390
Based, don't take no shit from tankies. There is no real argument against the nuclear family in an industrialized country

[Anonymous No.12309184]

>>12309128
>industrialized country

[Anonymous No.12309250]

>>12306023
Which one is you faggot?

[Anonymous No.12309341]

>>12308777
Not him but you're arbitrarily changing definitions to support your argument.

The nuclear family just means two parents and their children. No bullshit about forcing them out at 18 or having them learn everything at public schools.

[Anonymous No.12309433]

>>12306006
He was more a proponent of the traditional multigenerational family.

[Anonymous No.12310990]

>>12309184
Yes an industrialized society

[Anonymous No.12311016]

>>12308777
>what matters is it's not an atomized "nuclear family" that was invented in the 20th century fucking idiot
you're not smart in any way for saying anything you said in an incoherent, autistic manner posting smug anime reaction pictures and babbling about /pol/ strawmen and how Jews have nothing to do with destroying extended kin networks. The nuclear family has existed since the enlightenment began you fucking autistic teenager. Urbanization and people living almost exclusively with their parents and siblings are not new, and they even exist in some situations among other subsistence patterns typically on frontiers. You are literally making shit up to support your narrative.
>a "nuclear family" is about trying to get the parents to kick the kid out and have all the family spread across different places isolated so their tradition, values, views, and everything else is learned in public schools
Well no not really, its more about the mother and father being capable of providing the proper financial support for the children without an extended family involved because of capital concentration, certainly public schools allow this to be pushed much further as does going away to university.
>in extended/close family you get all your views from your family who are helping your interest by proxy
In a nuclear family pre-1900 you would get most of your values from your family, except even before this you'd almost certainly, if a high caste individual, have gone to a university or monastary or grammar school and had values instilled there, you'd also have gotten them passed down from military service or working for the State whatever that implied. You're now going back even further if you think this is "inapplicable" to most of human history. In China the State and whoever instructed you in your craft definitely passed down values, many men would go into the monastary at 12 or 13 and spend most of their life there learning basically all of their skills and values in this way, being sent away to live as an apprentice in your teens was also extremely common among medieval and renaissance cultures. You're making shit up.
>if a single mother is shit then why is one raising a son by herself while the father is away good? THEY AREN'T. aunts, cousins, grandfathers, and other serve as role models not some woman while the father is at work constantly
Yes.
>extended families by the simple fact they have your blood are more interested in your well-being than isolated "nuclear family" growing up on television in public schools.
No fucking shit, I never said that the Western model was good. You're being a belligerent petulant faggot over a misunderstanding you helped cause by not proofreading your post and talking like a retard sperging out over /pol/. Anytime someone critiques the nuclear family and then also attacks reactionaries you can almost always guarantee they want something like egalitarian tribalism but with mixed race populations

[Anonymous No.12311021]

>>12309341
>>12309128
these are also very true. However, >>12309184 is correct and you really shouldn't laud industrial society for making the Mother-Father-Children model viable. It is viable and you can have a perfectly healthy relationship with your kin while living with just your mother and father, in fact the idea that your grandparents necessarily would live with you and your aunts and uncles is not necessarily true especially for elites who had large estates and many properties in the ancient and medieval worlds and could afford to house their family close by. I've also met many people who live in nuclear families whose extended family live within driving distance of them, less than an hour away and see them routinely. What I was assuming, and it was obviously incorrect, is that you were getting at literally commie sociopathy where children are all raised in dorms, people don't know who their kids are, women are pooled like broodmares and men are raised and sexualized by the state. This shit is degeneracy par excellence and is even more evil than Boomerism.

[Anonymous No.12311023]

>>12306721
Cringe

[Anonymous No.12311027]

>>12307147
>(((studies))) suggest having a family is not worthwhile