/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12301243]

Why does /lit/ hate YA fiction so much? Isn't it better that people read something rather than nothing at all?

[Anonymous No.12301257]

because once you put on big boy pants it's fun to imagine you can tell other people what to do and where to invest their time for maximum productivity, advancement, and status - all of which they are deficient in.

[Anonymous No.12301263]

>>12301243
No it isn't. Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.12301273]

>>12301243
From a personal perspective: I seriously can't stand it without feeling my eyes flutter across the pages and feel like I'm ingesting something half-dilutted and almost wholesomely poisonous. It feels like I'm mulling over a rough stone and everyone else whispers "it's a statue." So for me, it's vastly inferior, though obviously relative as another more intelligent individual would say the same of me, to reading "Literature."

For others: I don't give a flippity fuck

[Anonymous No.12301287]

i don't care, they just don't share the same hobby as me

[Anonymous No.12301293]

People can read whatever the fuck they like.
As for me personally, I just don't like it. I don't get anything out of it.
If I wanted some sweet sweet schlocky pap with a hamfisted moral message and stock characters I'd play a video game or watch anime.

[Anonymous No.12301314]

>Isn't it better that people read something rather than nothing at all?
In the same way giving a starving African candy is better than no food at all

[Anonymous No.12301321]

The fuck is Lord of the Flies doing in there!?

Infinte Jest is more of a fucking YA novel than it!

[Anonymous No.12301345]

YA is mildly passable for young children and adolescents, though they should be reading adaptations of classic literature instead. YA is utterly unforgivable for adults, it is truly better that they read nothing at all.

[Anonymous No.12301431]

>>12301257
>Achieve maximum productivity.

I agree with his guy. The world has problems and people who actively seek to solve those problems, I respect significantly more than those who read fiction.

[Anonymous No.12301461]

>>12301243
>Isn't it better that people read something rather than nothing at all?
It unironically isn't

[Anonymous No.12301487]

My mum likes YA, she used to read those mills & boon jobs with fabio on the cover. Does not offend me and I sometimes even buy her some books like the hunger games trilogy and harry potter

[Anonymous No.12301518]

>>12301293
kill yourself mate, anime and video games will replace literature, just like niggers will replace wh*te people

[Anonymous No.12301550]

/lit/ is just upset that they cannot be the one to create a palatable fusion between contemporary and traditional literature with a big enough draw to get at those YA reader dollary-doos. They are upset that their attempts at storytelling have proved equally anemic to those on the market, and rather than recognize the merits of their contemporaries, they denigrate them, feeling that when they finally write the story it will come out as perfectly tailored to their standards as it exists in their heads.

[Anonymous No.12301574]

>>12301550
I've never written anything, but your post gives off an aura that you are painfully intimate with that exact scenario.
So tell me about that novel you're writing, Anon.

[Anonymous No.12301577]

>>12301574
i'm far too vulnerable now that i've been found out

[Anonymous No.12301592]

>>12301577
It's ok anon, we're all fucked anyway.

[Anonymous No.12301620]

>>12301243
/lit/ doesn't hate well written YA fiction* when it's read by its intended audience (children and young [i.e. teenage] adults). But anyone over 25 whose reading mainly consists of YA literature is displaying seriously stunted intellectual development. Unfortunately, a large proportion of today's 'readers' in the Western world display that stunted development, and publishers - whose primary motivation is to make money - are increasingly pushing YA literature at the expense of actual literature.

*A large proportion of YA literature published today is not well-written, and /lit/ will, as a matter of practice, hate on badly written literature of any type, YA or not.

[Anonymous No.12301669]

Serious question, is there any good YA? The only answers I can think of that I'd take seriously are books I'd call high school core instead (1984, BNW, LotF, CitR etc.)
I even think of good children's books (Alice in Wonderland, Roald Dahl, Aesop's Fables, Charlotte's Web, Winnie the Pooh, even Dr Seuss) as above YA

[Anonymous No.12301680]

>>12301243
>"one cannot be happy about the 35 million copies of Harry Potter, I had a piece published in today's Wall Street journ-"
>"I saw that article, yes, that OpEd piece. We can't be happy about that?"
>"No I think, I think that's not reading. Because there's nothing there to be read. It's just an endless string of cliche's. I cannot think that does anyone any good. People tell me that at least the child is reading, to which my answer is: no, the child isn't reading. That uh, that's not the wind in the willows, through the looking Glass, Charlotte's Web... that's not really children's literature, it's really just slop, and I do not think it does anyone any good at all."
>"Okay then, what are you saying? Are millions and millions and millions of people... wrong?"
>"I'm afraid so."

[Anonymous No.12301682]

>>12301669
Harry Potter is possibly the best YA. The genre's very existence is bullshit desu, these books are children's books like Peter Pan, The Hobbit, narnia series, Dahl, etc. Except they're mostly not as good

[Anonymous No.12301721]

>>12301669
Probably, but I doubt it would be worth wading through all the shit you’d have to wade through to find it.
And as you and >>12301682 note, the good YA books are often those that are kind of crammed into the category even though they fit better in other ones. Anything that markets itself as YA is almost guaranteed to be garbage.

[Anonymous No.12301738]

>"Putting down “Harry Potter” for Henry James is not one of adulthood’s obligations, like flossing and mortgage payments; it’s one of its rewards, like autonomy and sex. It seems to me not embarrassing or shameful but just self-defeating and a little sad to forego such pleasures in favor of reading a book that might just as easily be enjoyed by a child."

[Anonymous No.12301758]

I recently ordered a nice set of HP books to re-read. Do I think it’s the most amazing literature ever? Definitely not. But it has a personal connection for me from childhood and I don’t see much wrong with that. I’ve branched out since then; but I still really enjoy the story, can’t deny that.

[Anonymous No.12301764]

>>12301721
I wonder does J.K consider HP to be YA?

[Anonymous No.12301812]

>>12301764
Probably? I think she always intended it to grow with the reader. That’s why it get progressively more dark and we actually get people dying and such.

[Anonymous No.12301829]

>>12301764
I dunno, but you can’t really argue that it doesn’t fit the definition of being aimed at teens. It wasn’t written with the genre in mind though, since it wasn’t even a thing back then. And from the little YA I’ve read, it doesn’t feel like a typical YA book.

[Anonymous No.12301868]

>>12301829
>It wasn’t written with the genre in mind though, since it wasn’t even a thing back then.
Nonsense. You *might* be able to make that argument about Tolkein, but that's pushing it. CS Lewis, Madeleine L'Engle, Susan Cooper, Philip Pullman, etc, etc were all writing YA fantasy before Rowling came along.

[Anonymous No.12301878]

Somebody tweet J.K and ask her. I know one of you has her as a Twitter friendo, and she tweets I've seen them. Also see if she'll post her feet, asking for a friend

[Anonymous No.12301919]

>>12301868
Really, was the term in use even back then? I’ve always had the impression that YA didn’t really come into being until sometime after Twilight.

[Anonymous No.12301966]

>>12301273
My thoughts exactly. Reading modern fiction is like I’m swallowing something poisonous

[Anonymous No.12302001]

>>12301243
It's just annoying when people compare every fucking thing to Harry Potter. Fucking series ended ten years ago. They haven't enjoyed any books since then?

[Anonymous No.12302010]

>>12301257
>missing the point of the argument this hard

[Anonymous No.12302017]

>>12302010
this was for
>>12301431

[Anonymous No.12302020]

>>12301680
I read harry potter as a kid and now a I meme Harold Bloom. It can't be all that bad in all cases

[Anonymous No.12302058]

>>12301243
Everyone is pretentious about what they read, pretty much. If they read Joyce or Kant then that's kind of okay, but if they're a full grown adult reading about a magical girl saving the world from some bullshit, and they don't see how sad that is and instead they're condescending to me, it they think my books are somehow equivalent, yeah it kind of pisses me off

[Anonymous No.12302088]

>>12302058
yes. a magical person saving the world is such a laughable subject and surely a sickness of the times. we must retreat into tradition, brother, where such a thing would have been properly scorned.

[Anonymous No.12302160]

I don't hate YA. I'm just uninterested.

[Anonymous No.12302791]

>>12301243
I only read programming books. Fight me!

[Anonymous No.12302817]

>>12301243
>Isn't it better that people read something rather than nothing at all?
The problem is that this attitude, when combined with "everything has value, objectivity is not possible so everything is equal" anti-elitism thinking that's so prevalent these days, encourages people to settle for easy reads rather than challenging themselves.
So no, supposedly educated adults who read mainly YA and books on the level of YA (like Game of Thrones) should be made to feel embarrassed about it.

[Anonymous No.12302877]

>>12301243
> Isn't it better that people read something rather than nothing at all?

I think there was a strong insinuation that if people read harry potter they would develop adult reading patterns .... this never transpired.
YA fiction has become another facet of "nerd" manchild culture. It infantalises people who could bloom into wonderful, productive adults.

[Anonymous No.12302890]

Would you rather
>read something completely banal
Or
>learn a skill ot exercise

[Anonymous No.12302934]

>>12302877
>I think there was a strong insinuation that if people read harry potter they would develop adult reading patterns .... this never transpired.

PROOFS! PROOFS! WHERE ARE THE PROOFS? i want data, Niles.

[Anonymous No.12303046]

>>12302817
>>12302877
These these these
Also to the average idiot reading books is inherently intellectual so the ones who read YA often make up most of the demographic who talk about the joys of 'getting lost in a book' and post about their books on Instagram.

[Anonymous No.12303064]

>>12303046
"I love books/reading!!" always means shitty YA/genre fiction, but they always think they're intellectual and anything they don't get or find challenging is merely so because a) it's old and not relevant to our modern advanced age or b) no one "actually gets" it and people just pretend to like it to show off.

[Anonymous No.12303088]

>>12303064
>always think they're intellectual

this is projection. or in any case it's a simplification of a much broader phenomenon.

[Anonymous No.12303113]

>>12303088
Perhaps "intellectual" wasn't the right term, but just look at goodreads reviewers. There are tons of these idiots that read very simple books and when they reach something they don't get, they think it's the book/writer's fault (because it couldn't possibly be that they're not educated enough, right?) and make absurd statements about how great writers are shit.

[Anonymous No.12303122]

>>12301738
>one of its rewards, like autonomy and sex

[Anonymous No.12303142]

There are three types of pseuds.
There are the ones who read Joyce, Kant, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Proust, Hegel etc. in order to seem smart. Although it somewhat depends on whether they actually understand and appreciate these authors, these are usually the smartest pseuds, who will seem like a supreme intellectual to the average person, including the other two pseuds. If they do learn to truly appreciate great works and realise that they don't need to larp as reading Pynchon 24/7 then with nothing but a change in attitude these pseuds can finally ascend.
Then there are the people who think they're 'woke' for reading extremely basic entry level lit. These are the '1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual' type people, the type who still probably think that visible prose is pretentious and that authors should just say what they mean. Most of these types of pseuds are teenagers, and I'm sure many of the posters on /lit/ were at some point. Adult type 2 pseuds can be found in astonishing quantities on /r/books. This is the easiest stage to grow out of.
Then there's the final, worst pseud. These are the ones who get pretentious over things where there's nothing to be pretentious about, like YA, shitty genre fic and Black Mirror (they will always call Black Mirror a mindfuck). Pretentious is my least favourite word because of its dilution, usually being used for things that the person doesn't understand but is too narcissistic and closed minded to get, so these types of pseud are some of the only things I would call pretentious. They are likely to consider themselves 'smart but lazy'. These are the ones who think they're special for reading books that you unironically get less out of than watching a superhero film. The really young ones may grow out of it and read actual lit, but YA is socially accepted enough for them not to need to, and even if an older one does ascend it will most likely only be to the 1984-type pseud.
Think of these pseuds as /lit/, /r/books and Tumblr.

[Anonymous No.12303165]

>>12303142
Which type of pseud writes a post like this?

[Anonymous No.12303190]

>>12303142
Hey, Black Mirror is pretty good for /tv/. I also enjoyed Altered Carbon

[None !Goodman9pQ No.12303207]

I really liked the leviathan series and eragon as a kid and if I had kids of my own those would be the first big boy books I'd give them. no harry potter though :)

[Anonymous No.12303218]

>>12303113
no, i see what you're about now. i agree with you, i still feel there's this awkward divide between, you know, the perception of YA as seen through a literature board on 4chan, and my experience of it via the lens of educators and aspiring authors and youtube entertainers who are essentially looking to be salesmen on their respective platform. so hating it all comes across as somewhat bitter to me, but it's really just the boys thumping their chests and i should be proud of them.

[Anonymous No.12303266]

>>12303142
Where would you put the "Social Justice" pseud, who defends their lack of education and laziness by saying that classic literature is just "old white men" and that's the only reason it has prestige, and therefore the YA they read is just as - if not more - valuable.

Sidenote - anyone else getting fucked by captchas today? I miss legacy captcha.

[Anonymous No.12303276]

>>12303142
Black Mirror may not be the cherry on the cake, but I appreciate anything the culture industry produces which isnt total garbage / propaganda or in other words which is at least remotely critical. And Black Mirror is critical. I hope its influence grows.

[Anonymous No.12303285]

>>12301321
Lord of the Flies is literally written for 12 year olds.

[Anonymous No.12303294]

>>12303266
I dont know such people, dont visit /pol/ that much and dont stay in your youtube echo chamber that much.

>saying that classic literature is just "old white men" and that's the only reason it has prestige
People who really believe this are not even pseuds, just idiots.

[Anonymous No.12303295]

>>12303142
Obsequious is a good word for you there lad you're very welcome :^)

[Anonymous No.12303304]

>>12303266
Firmly entrenched with the postmodernist hipsters

[Anonymous No.12303333]

>>12303294
I don't go on /pol/ or similar right wing forums, I see this shit in the wild lol.
Of course they're idiots, but it's unfortunately not at all uncommon view among "progressives", who consider themselves educated. Look at the number of likes for on pic related. Found that earlier today just browsing twitter, and the entire thread is depressing as fuck.

[Anonymous No.12303380]

>>12301243
>Isn't it better that people read something rather than nothing at all?
It's not. It's like having Porn Fetish Studies as a major at a university. You waste time, mental energy and money for some absurd thing..

[Anonymous No.12303398]

>>12303333
Joyce was Irish not white

[Anonymous No.12303404]

>>12303333
sorry anon, i was a bit to aggressive.
you probably live in the US, so youre more likely to see such specimen in the wild.
im sorry for you, and I really hope it doesnt get as bad in my country ;'(
youtube alone almost kills me, and other stuff I read and see, like your disgusting pic.
have a good night anon, we must stay strong.

[Anonymous No.12303484]

>>12303142
>There are the ones who read Joyce, Kant, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Proust, Hegel etc. in order to seem smart.
>to seem smart
Maybe they're pretentious in the same way the average Chad is pretentious about his physical strength, but they're not pseuds. You really think a below average IQ person could read Hegel and Joyce?
I think you haven't gotten off your pc for a few years. Try to socialize. You've probably forgotten what an actual dumb person is. I've met people in their 20s who literally don't know how to read or write the letters of the alphabet. You really can't be anything but pretentious to them...

[Anonymous No.12303532]

>>12303484
>Although it somewhat depends on whether they actually understand and appreciate these authors