Attention Leftists of /lit/

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Attention Leftists of /lit/ Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:01:15 2018 No.12297511 [DELETED]

I am thinking that maybe being a reactionary is dumb and it’s time to look into the bluepill. However, I just can’t stand the contemporary academic style of leftist writing. What are some books advocating for progressivism which may be more up my alley? Specifically interested in stuff about racism, sexism, LGBT

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:04:21 2018 No.12297527 File: 1001 KB, 440x330, 1450016781959.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12297511 >Specifically interested in stuff about racism, sexism, LGBT

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:04:53 2018 No.12297531 Intersectionality is a disease

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:06:39 2018 No.12297537 >>12297511 >literally wanting to be indoctrinated weird..

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:06:57 2018 No.12297538 you need to be more specific than just complaining about an "academic style". what does this mean

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:08:06 2018 No.12297542 >>12297511 Progress is natural and needs not to be an ideological struggle. LGBT, sexism and modern racism is just the continuation of the class strugle (the bourgeoisie are winning no matter what)

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:08:35 2018 No.12297543 File: 698 KB, 2560x1440, 1545956888500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:09:14 2018 No.12297545 >>12297511 >I am thinking that maybe being a reactionary is dumb What made you think this? I'm not leftwing but i used to be a hardcore /pol/tard and what drew me away was completely fucking banal

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:11:08 2018 No.12297550 Start with Marx. You need to understand the materialist conception of society. Books and shit about racism, sexism, and LGBT are irrelevant once you understand class struggle.

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:11:39 2018 No.12297552

>>12297511
If you want to be an sjw, read Judith Butler, if you want to be a CNN style Boomer centrist, then read Leo Strauss and Fukuyama.

If you still want to engage your brain without choosing a prepackaged ideological virus, then read Roberto Unger, if you want to be greenpilled from the left then Bookchin.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:13:09 2018 No.12297560 Isn't "reactionary" just what marxists call people who are against marxism? Basically anyone who isn't completely retarded is a reactionary then.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:17:19 2018 No.12297575 >>12297560 Reactionary is specifically pro-monarchy/aristocracy

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:18:13 2018 No.12297577 >>12297575 According to who??

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:18:40 2018 No.12297579 >>12297575 not really, you're thinking of the neoreactionary movement which is completely different

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:21:04 2018 No.12297591 File: 165 KB, 480x800, Screenshot_2018-12-27-19-20-22.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12297577 Russell Kirk et c

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:22:06 2018 No.12297596 >>12297579 I thought neoreaction was about joint stock corporation republics and shit like that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:23:01 2018 No.12297600 >>12297579 >>12297577 Nope, Reaction going back to its origin is monarchy oriented https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reactionary_Mind

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:24:14 2018 No.12297606 >>12297591 This is not the modern usage.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:25:07 2018 No.12297611 >>12297600 definitions change, just how you can't say "neoliberal" without everybody thinking of le sjws.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:25:14 2018 No.12297612 >>12297606 Oh right, yeah, and Libertarians aren't "liberal" bc dumbfucks all agree

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:26:21 2018 No.12297619 >>12297591 But doesn't that pic defines reactionary as "a movement towards the reversal of an existing tendency or state" in general? Not being pro-monarchy/aristocracy specifically.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:31:01 2018 No.12297638 File: 202 KB, 480x800, 2018-12-27_07-29-54.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12297619 Here I underlined it for you Also, the previous state IS monarchy, come on now

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:32:22 2018 No.12297642 >>12297596 That too. The joint stock corporate government idea is from Moldbug and he saw it as monarchy perfected, or at least repackaged for the 21st century

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:33:56 2018 No.12297648 >>12297642 Yeah. Neo Reaction as in New Reaction. as opposed to the Old Reaction like Edmund Burke et c

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:35:29 2018 No.12297655 >>12297638 So american reactionary conservatives are pro-monarchy? I think not.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:35:34 2018 No.12297657 File: 148 KB, 1280x720, wila.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12297511 The only "leftist" movement in the coming decade will be Eco-Fascism. Just you wait

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:37:56 2018 No.12297667 >>12297657 >tfw ecofascist as well as actual fascist

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:39:33 2018 No.12297673 >>12297655 I take it you've never read Alexander Hamilton and Federalist Papers. Pro-Aristocracy if not Monarchy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:40:00 2018 No.12297677 >>12297545 pay tell, what exactly drew you away?

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:43:37 2018 No.12297685

>>12297638
Are you unable to read? That text gives a definition for reactionary and it says monarchist parliamentarians were the firsts people on which these terms were applied. But that does not limit the scope of the terms to that one group since the definition is more general.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:45:00 2018 No.12297691 File: 31 KB, 480x480, 1525914166620.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12297667 I'll see you in the wasteland brother

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:45:33 2018 No.12297694 >>12297685 Why are you so afraid of seeing that you are not actually conservative and are in fact a progressive like Teddy Roosevelt? Is that even a bad thing? TR was p cool

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:47:38 2018 No.12297705 >>12297657 >>12297691 >>12297667 Vedic Deep Ecology 5eva

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:48:23 2018 No.12297707

>>12297673
No I haven't, most of what I know of being "reactionary" comes from Russian literature so I'm not afraid to admit I'm unclear on the actual usage of the term. I know Dostoevsky was often accused of being reactionary because of his criticisms of atheist/communist movements in his era, so I'd enjoy a concise distillation of the term. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem I will get to the Federalist papers any time soon, but who knows.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:49:09 2018 No.12297709 >>12297694 Just don't post a quote if you don't understand it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:52:07 2018 No.12297719 >>12297707 Dugin is fuckin based man. You realize pre-communist Russia was an Orthodox Christian Monarchy so that assessment is correct

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:53:38 2018 No.12297727 >>12297709 >Just don't post a quote if you don't understand it. Yeah well like you know and but so that's like just you know your like own opinion

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 20:58:14 2018 No.12297739
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>>12297719
Yes, it just seems to term "reactionary" would be relevant to the context of the time period. In the case of a modern American reactionary, it would be a conservative without a positive argument. I admittedly am not sure if this makes any sense, I'm making an attempt to actually learn and understand unlike the rest of the pseuds on this board.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:03:22 2018 No.12297752 >>12297511 I don't have anything at hand right now, but God bless you, man. More people like you are needed. I'd recommend you get a bit over your allergy to Reddit and also search for recommendations there.

>>	I am so unique Thu Dec 27 21:04:14 2018 No.12297754 >>12297511 Watch some Jimmy Dore and read Chomsky - both are quite redpilled but still on the left so by this you will avoid becoming a lefty larper.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:14:33 2018 No.12297799 >>12297752 lol

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:21:28 2018 No.12297825 >>12297754 >Jimmy Dore Isn't that guy on the Young Turks, the most retarded coalition of brainlets on the leftist hemisphere?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:37:04 2018 No.12297875 >>12297657 >>12297691 >>12297667 Fun thread you dynamic dudes may enjoy: /ECO/ general -- https://8ch dot net/pol/res/12485472.html

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:41:03 2018 No.12297890

>>12297677
I lost an argument about something unrelated but it shook my confidence enough that i started compiling lists of citations to back up my points.
I ended up noticing a few holes and ESPECIALLY, stormfront false flags. It kinda made all the little counterpoints i had heard over the years come flooding back.
I went HARD centrist, maybe a little left as a result but since then I've drifted back rightward.

I feel like the same thing must have happened with Altenative Hypothesis, a lot of people were shocked with his 180 degree change but personally it just reminded me of myself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:45:41 2018 No.12297910 >>12297545 >what drew me away was completely fucking banal You know what isn't banal? That cliffhanger. Spill beans pls. I'm interested.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:47:43 2018 No.12297920 >>12297910 Actually dw just saw your reply >>12297890 Who is Alternative Hypothesis?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:50:57 2018 No.12297928 >>12297511 God and the State by MAB

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:56:45 2018 No.12297952

>>12297657
>>12297667
>>12297691
>>12297705
>>12297875
edgy nonsense for misguided children who romanticize nazis. you can care for the environment without attaching yourself to an image, a particularly embarrassing and juvenile one at that. really, be honest, what the fuck is going to come from calling yourself a fascist except getting people to ignore you? Because let's be real- you're not going to do anything violent or proactive to help save the environment, all you're going to do at most is say mean words to people. And if you call yourself a fascist, your words will mean nothing and slough off anyone you're verbally assaulting because you're just a big dumb scary fascist to them. Better off not identifying with edgy retards and instead argue your beliefs from a place of understanding and internal rationalization rather than on behalf of a romantic image of yourself, you'll get more accomplished.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 21:58:29 2018 No.12297956 >>12297890 Read Roberto Unger, 99% of his work is on Libgen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:01:35 2018 No.12297969 >>12297952 >projecting this hard Let people be what they are. >if you're not shitposting, you're larping Stop trying to hold people back.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:02:57 2018 No.12297980 >>12297890 A suggestion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Self_Awakened:_Pragmatism_Unbound

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:03:59 2018 No.12297985 >>12297875 thanks

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:05:09 2018 No.12297989 >>12297952 yikes dude

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:05:11 2018 No.12297990

>>12297969
All you'll do by enforcing that through government authority is breed large-scale resentment for your cause though. I think we could use Ecuador as a good standard for how the state should use their power to protect nature in that they kinda use their legislative power as an augmentation to the free market rather than a superseding authority. An example:
>Ecuador wants to protect its rainforests
>People need jobs, which in that part of the world generally means more land put under the plow
>Rather than sell chunks of rainforest for people to farm, the state starts building oil rigs in it for people to work on
>These rigs are held to strict environmentally friendly standards and the land is completely returned to nature when the job is done
>People have jobs
>Ecuador gets oil
>Rainforest stays intact
They're also the only nation on earth to give nature constitutional rights iirc. So that's kinda cool.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:26:14 2018 No.12298074 >>12297920 Very major alt righter.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:29:23 2018 No.12298093 >>12297980 Why?

>>	« ƸЖƷ » Thu Dec 27 22:37:13 2018 No.12298125 >>12297825 He’s the good one. Got his own show anyway. He’s alright. Admits he’s a dumb guy that just has good bullshit detectors

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:43:51 2018 No.12298139

>>12297952
>edgy
"You try too hard to be cool but you aren't even cool!"
>misguided
"You aren't normal."
>children
"Ummm, immature much? Don't you want to be mature? I'll concede that you're mature if you only change your views.."
>embarrassing
"Loser! You aren't even cool or popular!"
>juvenile
"Ummmmmmmm, immature much sweaty?"
>getting people to ignore you
"You won't even be popular if you think that!"
>all you're going to do at most is say mean words to people
"You aren't even serious, you're all talk and no walk, LOL! That's not very popular of you."

Perfect combination of womanly shame tactics and overfed normie. Good demonstration of why women are such useful appendages of neo-liberal pseudo-progressivist social conditioning. They absorb the ideology of society as a popularity contest like a sponge, and then enforce it using their natural feminine tendency to reinforce social hierarchy by ostracizing "creepers." Women are truly the footsoldiers of mediocrity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 22:46:40 2018 No.12298148 >>12298093 Because post-meme adult hard Center is pragmatism and that book (and its two sequelae) are the Top Tier. Read that Wikipedia intro, its a special work

I am so unique Thu Dec 27 23:03:06 2018 No.12298215

>>12297825
He left those retards when their stupidity stats got too high and now he admits that they are retards.
Dore constantly shits on how the corporate media represents Trump and he also shits on the corporate democrats. He thinks that Trump won because the democrats where too retarded to show a better alternative and he calls bullshit on all the Russia conspiracies.
He's really chill, even Sargon of Akkad has admitted he likes Dore.
Watch the Joe Rogan interview as a start.

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:03:19 2018 No.12298216

>>12298139
You've only demonstrated that you've done nothing. Posting on 4chan (and cripplechan) doesn't help your goal. Here you attract underaged and lost men. Bizarrely you've decided that everyone who opposes you is a woman (good luck with that ethnostate) or an over-fed normie (implying you yourself are starving?). In fact your imply simply was just mean words, references to an unknowable puppeteering force that controls everything you hate, and a shitty attempt at convincing everyone you're not very serious about this ism. I recommend reading Fundamentals of Ecology, a landmark textbook in the science (hopefully Odum isn't too "bluepilled" for you). If you really care you'll read this right away.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:04:34 2018 No.12298224 >>12297890 I can relate in a sense. Used to be very big into idpol, but I've fallen onto the neoabsolutism train and it honestly just makes a lot more sense than basic idpol

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:05:40 2018 No.12298228 >>12298216 Quit fucking projecting. I have recommended Ecology of Freedom and other Bookchin in this same thread.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:05:59 2018 No.12298229 >>12297511 >Specifically interested in stuff about racism, sexism, LGBT Ffs where is class? Do you even know what the Left is?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:08:06 2018 No.12298234 >>12297560 Which in my opinion is completely retarded considering Marxism is itself "reactionary" towards the capitalistic society it wants to overthrow.

>>	I am so unique Thu Dec 27 23:08:07 2018 No.12298235 >>12298229 Yeah class is the essential shit, all that grievence study shit is secondary and born out of it. But no shit he should start with the communist manifesto.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:09:24 2018 No.12298239 >>12297511 Racism is just poor epistemic responsibility tbqf Just say MOST niggers are violent thugs and you're good to go.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:10:00 2018 No.12298241 >>12297875 >linking cripplechan /pol/ If it was a /leftypol/ link you folks will be screaming infiltration.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:11:30 2018 No.12298248 >>12297752 Can’t tell if this is ironic or not

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:13:06 2018 No.12298255 >>12298234 Socialism is post capitalism not anti so it isn’t reactionary

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:13:09 2018 No.12298257 >>12297952 I severely detest Nazis/nationalist. I only call refer to my leanings as eco racist because I have no problem with 85% of the world population to be wiped out. Regardless of race, creed etc

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:13:56 2018 No.12298262 >>12298235 Wait a second. I’ve been duped haven’t I. My college professors never even talked about class, it was all about “whiteness,” which I kinda had a kneejerk reaction to

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:16:36 2018 No.12298276 >>12298262 If you are not trolling or being sarcastic, then yes, this current iteration of the Left is primarily about class with everything else secondary to its concerns if any.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:17:39 2018 No.12298279 >>12298228 Good for you. You've read absolutely nothing that really is Ecology and have latched onto one of the most interesting and accessible sciences to fuel you ressentiment against the majority.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:17:50 2018 No.12298282 >>12298262 Yeah, whiteness is some secondary bullshit, class is essential. Marx even says in the manifesto that gender becomes obsolete through capitalism, guy is redpilled af.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:21:29 2018 No.12298301 >>12298262 So this is why the American left is so retarded!

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:23:30 2018 No.12298313

>>12298255
I have a hard time believing that all the latte sipping faggots who rally about the abolishment of the capitalist system on their college campus are not the definition of reactionary. Except I just looked up the dictionary definition of reactionary and it apparently means those who are opposed to societal reform which simply doesn't sound right to me.

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:24:49 2018 No.12298323

>>12297990
Ecuador is a good example but things look bleak. Brazil's new president plans to wipe out every inch of the rain forest, China (and other countries) are destroying Africa for resources and places like Canada and alike who proclaim to have an environmental dedication, have far too much invested in oil than there willing to give up, plus consumption has never been higher. Waste is increasing and despite warnings plastic is still being used exceedingly and recycling measures are fruitless

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:24:57 2018 No.12298324 >>12298313 Who the fuck cares about an arbitrary title?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:27:56 2018 No.12298338 >>12298301 Burgerland has had a race hangup for a long long while now

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:30:57 2018 No.12298351

>>12298323
>Brazil's new president plans to wipe out every inch of the rain forest
Really sick of this meme
The only sections that Bolsonaro has been referring to in regards to that are sections that are already privately-owned and being exploited, just limited by regulation

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:31:56 2018 No.12298359 >>12298313 They are not ranting about its destruction though since as you so already pointed out, sipping lattes and shit. They just wanna sip lattes in better conditions

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:32:08 2018 No.12298360 >>12298324 What?

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:32:09 2018 No.12298361

>>12297511
Take the Christopher Lasch pill. He was a harsh critic of progress, a defender of the traditional multigenerational family, and yet in the final analysis he was still a leftist, as he understood how capitalism destroys cherished time-honored traditions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:33:11 2018 No.12298366 >>12298359 >They are not ranting about its destruction though They are. In between sipping on their shitty lattes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:35:00 2018 No.12298372 >>12298282 marx is retarded

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:36:59 2018 No.12298378 >>12298360 I mean it's the ideology that matters. But to be with you on this point: In the introduction this reactionary equation is also made in the start of the book #Acceleration as a central motivating factor in the creation of accelerationism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:38:05 2018 No.12298382 >>12298372 His mapping and criticism is quite on point.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:38:17 2018 No.12298384 >>12297511 >I want to swap one set of spooks for another

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:38:39 2018 No.12298386

>>12297552
Ooooh based friendposter, I haven’t met many other people who like Unger (or who have even heard of him). Are you American? I feel like he’s more popular outside the states

>just want someone who can help me share in the attributes commonly ascribed to Divinity

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:39:18 2018 No.12298392 File: 118 KB, 270x411, 8E091EBD-8BEA-4924-A779-33CA0F293C2D.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12298361 Hmm, that sounds kinda groovy

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:40:25 2018 No.12298399 >>12298257 You'll be turned into onions green first.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:40:30 2018 No.12298401 >>12298366 And as I already mentioned, socialism is post-capitalism so no they are. You seems more concerned with arguing about people may or may not exist doing something you don’t like them about the semantics of the words itself

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:40:35 2018 No.12298403

>>12297952
>what the fuck is going to come from calling yourself a fascist except getting people to ignore you?
Lmao, do you think fascists identify as fascists IRL? This place just allows us to express our honest identifications. Also, you imply that politics is something which you discuss with other human beings in 2018. It’s not. It’s something which is only relevant in complaining in the internet and when going to the polls.

I personally vote labour or christian democrats. It’s normally the one least outspoken about social issues. But I can get satisfied with their economic policies

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:40:44 2018 No.12298405 >>12298313 >Am I.. out of touch? No, it is the children who are wrong.

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:41:36 2018 No.12298408

>>12297511
Analytic political philosophy/philosophy of law. They have been explicitly anti-Postmodernist/anti-Marxist even before the rise of contemporary SJW/PC/anti-White male/anti-Western ideology, but at the same time have been heavily critical of the right wing. E.g. Ronald Dworkin, John Rawls, Robert Nozick, Amartya Sen, Kenneth Arrow, H. L. A Hart.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:42:28 2018 No.12298414 >>12298382 here But Leninism and so forth #Communism is quite retarded. Social democracy all the way.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:43:56 2018 No.12298419 >>12298386 I live in the very center of the Continental US. (I'm halfway through Religion Of The Future atm, concurrently with some other stuff. Looking forward to Singular Universe And Reality Of Time)

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:46:10 2018 No.12298428 >>12298403 >it’s not I am sorry you hang out with retards then

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:46:38 2018 No.12298431 >>12298401 So a guy ranting on the streets with a megaphone about how communism or socialism is the true way is not really reacting to the capitalistic society he professes to hate because socialism is post-capitalism?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:47:09 2018 No.12298432 People like to gloss over that Fascism started as National Syndicalism in Italy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:50:58 2018 No.12298446 >>12298431 >So a guy ranting on the streets with a megaphone about how communism or socialism is the true way How is that necessarily hatred of the system? And you can hate something to want to improve it though. Where do you get these examples from?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:51:24 2018 No.12298450 >>12298431 You are just being silly now. That is a reaction, yes, a personal or even cultural reaction, but it's not Reactionary. There is a history out there. ffs

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:53:56 2018 No.12298459

>>12298446
>How is that necessarily hatred of the system?
Is it not the goals of commies to overthrow the current capitalist system and replace it with communism? Yes or no

>Where do you get these examples from?
Literally two days ago when I walked past a guy on the street from a communist party ranting on a microphone.

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 23:58:08 2018 No.12298473

>>12298459
>Is it not the goals of commies to overthrow the current capitalist system and replace it with communism? Yes or no
Yes. Overthrow != destruction

>microphone.
That makes it more plausible, did you find him with those people talking about destroying capitalism between sips of their latte?

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:02:31 2018 No.12298491

>>12298459
>>12298473

You're both missing the defining aspect of Reaction:
It's anti-progress, it is regress, it is about Return and Conservation of Tradition, That Which Came Before.

Unless you're in Russia, communism is not the past, and even in Russia, Tsars ruled before the Soviet Councils.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:03:31 2018 No.12298495 >>12298473 >microphone Woops, that's a typo. He did have a megaphone. >Yes. Overthrow != destruction Now you're being petty.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:05:02 2018 No.12298505

>>12298491
>You're both missing the defining aspect of Reaction:
>It's anti-progress, it is regress, it is about Return and Conservation of Tradition, That Which Came Before.
I know senpai, my point is reactionaries (probably) share dissatisfaction of capitalism with socialists, but the former wants to install what came before while socialists want to create something radically different

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:06:39 2018 No.12298517 >>12297667 ecofash isnt a real ideology. there's a reason there aren't any ecofacist tribes living in the woods like Ted k as they say they will

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:06:48 2018 No.12298518 >>12298505 >while socialists want to create something radically different While keeping any good points of captialism of coz

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:08:54 2018 No.12298525 >>12298518 socialism is an evolution from capitalism, that in turn evolves into full communism not that it matters

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:09:57 2018 No.12298532 >>12298313 the people you describe are a product of capitalism. the current faux socialist movement of the left is beneficial to sentient capital.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:10:56 2018 No.12298536 >>12298525 It does to the person ranting about marxists being the real reactionary all along

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:18:47 2018 No.12298563 I thought reactionary was just a marxist pejorative, its weird seeing people identify that way.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:20:34 2018 No.12298568 >>12297611 Only uneducated online righties use neoliberal like that

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:21:21 2018 No.12298574 >>12298517 just you wait

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:23:23 2018 No.12298584 >>12298568 This. Neoliberalism is equally reviled by SJWs, because they equally have no idea about political philosophy.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:26:34 2018 No.12298598

>>12298584
>>12298568
>>12297611

Neoliberalism was never particularly coherently defined, there's far from any consensus around its definition. For this reason the term has fallen out of favour with academics and is almost exclusively used by pundits.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:31:46 2018 No.12298614 >>12298532 >the people you describe are a product of capitalism. Like fucking clockwork. You people should really start going to a church because you treat your ideology like it's a religion already,

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:38:02 2018 No.12298635

>>12298614
He's right though, every person since the 1600s has been a product to some degree of their every day life under various stages of manorialism-into-capitalism and capitalism.

Without Capitalism, there's no Marxism, because he'd be analyzing and trying to improve on feudalism instead.
He might have even created Capitalism in the attempt!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:38:50 2018 No.12298637 >>12297752 Please tell me this is a fucking joke

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:40:19 2018 No.12298640 >>12298614 I am not a marxist/whatever. That is simply what capital does.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:40:24 2018 No.12298641 >>12298614 Its kind of funny, its like libertarianism in that they have one explanation for literally every problem.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:40:56 2018 No.12298644 You need to read leftist literature that was written back when leftism had balls? Why is leftism so shitty and ineffectual these days? No balls. Read 19th and 20th century stuff, anarchist stuff.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:45:17 2018 No.12298653 >>12298641 That's what memetics was supposed to be, the study of viral ideas and idea-complexes as such. They really replicate and evolve like viruses.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 00:54:49 2018 No.12298676 >>12298644 Red Scares and a shit load of coups

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:31:37 2018 No.12298731 >>12297875 8/pol/ is weirdly heaps more literate than 4/pol/

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:44:12 2018 No.12298755
File: 30 KB, 443x332, images (49).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12298731
Because /leftypol/ is a board dedicated to radical left thought, there's virtually no right wing spam allowed
Imagine that, a board with no Evola, no Peterson, no Spengler, no Christfagging, no trad LARPing
We could only dream

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:45:21 2018 No.12298759 >>12298755 are you retarded?

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:48:21 2018 No.12298763

Lol. People saying Marxist's are reactionaries, because they're 'reacting' to capitalism. They are not reactionaries. They are reacting in the vulgar sense to capitalism.

They are not reactionaries as in the political descriptor. Reactionaries as a political descriptor are those who want to move away from the liberal democratic ethos, to an illiberal, anti-democratic ethos characterized of or by it's authoritarian nationalist,, aristocratic/monarchical, or privatized authoritarian structure. They are not neccessarily anti-capitalist. Marxism is not 'reactionary' to capitalism, as dumbfucks who purposefully subvert meaning would have you believe. They wish, and believe, that they will/should replace capitalism with a new economic structure, which will usher in a new style of governance/the lack thereof known as communism.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:48:45 2018 No.12298765

>>12298323
This desu
Not enough is happening and it's not happening fast enough. As much as people love their democracy all this has done in practice is put power into decentralised corporate hands and slow decision making to a crawl.
In order to actually avert an environmental catastrophe the best way is no longer through the carrot, but with a really fucking big stick with nails sticking out and shit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:49:13 2018 No.12298766 >>12298614 marxism has always had religious tones to it-- that alone is no argument against it

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:50:52 2018 No.12298771

>>12298755
/leftypol/ is a shithole that only attracts weird ESL larpers. It also has a hugbox atmosphere because of the mods, who think it defuses the hugbox atmosphere if they self-consciously say "LOL MUH HUGBOX" when they foment it.

It has an uncanny valley effect because of that, feels like a bunch of odd confused people bumbling and talking past each other. Reminds me of Revleft, where you could really tell that many of the posters were either retarded, insane, or both. The upshot was that whenever you tried to have conversation, you had to constantly be filtering out all the weird nonsense coming from retards and crazy people. /leftypol/ has that same uncanny vibe, like a subtle senility in the air.

I've never been to 8/pol/ 4chan's /pol/ is a total abomination now though. You can tell it's an even more eerie mixture of fat old ladies, teenagers, and hardcore Stormfronters who barely even know what 4chan is. Likewise, feels like a bunch of retarded gormless half-functioning niggers talking past each other, ironically.

Still better than Chapo "Don't Say Nigger!" House, or whatever Facebook-tier garbage internet leftists pretend to like these days. Big tent mentality ruins everything, normie faggots always come in and want to police speech.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:51:17 2018 No.12298773 >>12298755 Are you braindead? They said 8/pol/ and you start going off about fucking /leftypol/ for some reason Also >/pol/ or 8/pol/ liking Peterson

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:53:16 2018 No.12298779 >>12298755 /leftypol/ is sophistry central A bunch of language salad dressed up to obscure arguments and make them sound profound when they're discussing trivialities or groundless nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:53:30 2018 No.12298781 >>12297825 aren’t the young turks armenian genocide deniers? i would call them more liberal than leftist if that were the case

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 01:55:47 2018 No.12298786 >>12298781 Cenk denied the Armenian genocide for years and his Armenian cohost, the one with the nosejob, just tolerated it. Kasparian is like the living archetype of a shrill henpecking cunt.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 02:08:33 2018 No.12298828 >>12298786 Weird how the same behaviour as holocaust denialism is fine as long as it's directed at the Armenians

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 02:12:12 2018 No.12298838 >>12297511 Contrapoints

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 02:28:15 2018 No.12298881 >>12298828 https://journals.openedition.org/eac/361?lang=en

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 02:34:30 2018 No.12298894 >>12298828 Armenians are visibly caucasoid christians in the vicinity of muzzies, no western media outlet would ever defend them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 02:37:05 2018 No.12298903 >>12298828 The Jews used to try to stop Armenians from calling it a Holocaust and even a genocide lmao

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 03:21:52 2018 No.12299011 >>12298838 contra is one of the few people (on any side of the issue honestly) who will talk about LGBT stuff in a way that's not totally braindead, but that's a realllly low bar

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 03:35:03 2018 No.12299032 >>12298838 >Contrapoints is a toxic blight on humanity

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 05:02:08 2018 No.12299212 >>12298779 Sounds like a good approximation of modern left academia

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 05:08:34 2018 No.12299229 >>12298779 Okay baboonposter

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 05:40:04 2018 No.12299313 >>1229883 More like Talkingpoints amirite?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 05:40:37 2018 No.12299316 >>12298838 >>12299313 ?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 06:50:39 2018 No.12299511 >>12298215 Sounds not too bad. I will give his channel a try.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 06:54:39 2018 No.12299525 >>12298351 And you really think he'll stick to his word? He claimed that climate change is a Marxist plot. He'll ruin the lungs of the world and laugh while doing it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 06:58:24 2018 No.12299538 >>12297511 >the contemporary academic style of leftist writing characterise what traits of style annoy you so I can give actual concrete suggestions about books

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:02:14 2018 No.12299552 > ctrl f isaiah berlin >no results found why go full leftism/retard why not embrace radical centrism

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:10:41 2018 No.12299587 >>12298139 Kill yourself . Just fucking do it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:13:34 2018 No.12299598 >>12299587 the sad thing is that he isn’t even wrong. you ever hang around women, anon? that’s exactly how they act. they’re kids.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:16:02 2018 No.12299603

>>12297511
I don't really understand your point?
if you wanted to look into Marxist/socialist writing or post-modern stuff that's one thing. but if you just seek to confirm for yourself the world as-is then you might as well spend the day watching MTV reality dramas

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:17:50 2018 No.12299610

>>12298403

Genuinely feel sorry for you. Politics is discussed with both friends and family, No matter their leanings

You are a fucking coward, that's really all there is to it. You're Not a fascist, you're an online edgelord.

At least Adolf and Mussolini stood Up for their beliefs, you're just parasitical scum

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:19:12 2018 No.12299615

I want to get into leftist literature but I'm having a hard time understanding "means of production". It seems like a pretty vague term that better applied to 19th century form of production like big factories. Can you really just apply "means of production" to modern IT offices, tourism or web design? How can the workers of a huge office building collectively own all the different programs and channels they are using, especially if they are collaborating with different companies? It makes no sense to me at all.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:19:36 2018 No.12299616 >>12299587 calm down reddit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:23:56 2018 No.12299634 >>12299598 Yes, yes I do. No woman in my Life acts Like that. Flies are attracted to heaps of shit, did you know that? Thats you. You're subhuman shit, as are the women in your life.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:24:59 2018 No.12299641 >>12299616 K Y S Y S

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:25:24 2018 No.12299642 >>12299634 Yikes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:26:41 2018 No.12299648 >>12299634 >>12299641 Dude, you're embarrassing yourself.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:28:59 2018 No.12299663

>>12299615
Yeah it's a retarded made up distinction in the first place.

But if you want to make it work in today's production systems, then just think of everything that isn't your personal property (movable property) as being the means of production. So basically anything you own right now that isn't your personal property would be collectivized including real estate

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 07:29:57 2018 No.12299667 >>12299648 Cry me a fucking river you faggot

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:10:58 2018 No.12300000 >>12298771 "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole" now take that and apply it to your online message/image board rant

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:13:04 2018 No.12300006 >>12300000 wasted get, fucking faggot

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:16:09 2018 No.12300018 >>12300000 consider suicide for wasting those quints

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:32:05 2018 No.12300074 Anyone think how in Cyclopedia that posits the theory that oil is sentient; has anyone applied this to environmental ideas. Whenever I see a natural disaster I see it as nature taking back what it lost.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:35:02 2018 No.12300087 >>12300074 Is this what eco leftists actually believe?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:37:10 2018 No.12300095 File: 10 KB, 279x307, 664.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12300006 >>12300018

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:38:12 2018 No.12300097 >>12299663 >So basically anything you own right now that isn't your personal property would be collectivized including real estate a house/flat you live in is personal property

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:39:50 2018 No.12300103 why is /lit/ so amgry about left? this used to be the commie bord

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:45:26 2018 No.12300132 >>12300103 take a guess what demographic shift in the board could have resulted its politics going sharply to the right and its actual knowledge of books plummeting

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:51:33 2018 No.12300154
File: 9 KB, 255x247, pajarito.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

people should just get rid of ideology altogether, ideology plays out like religion nowadays, it´s really stupid to play this game of:

>my ideology is better than yours lmao xd

child mentality among the population, how embarrassing!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:54:15 2018 No.12300164 >>12300000 I actually liked your advice, faggot :3

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:54:52 2018 No.12300167
File: 1.03 MB, 740x960, 1537124935213.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12300154
The politically possessed are little more than mindless automatons spreading the word of their gods. It's like that fungus which infects ants and controls their movements by hijacking their senses and desires, forcing them to climb to a high spot before the fungus bursts out of their heads and scatters it's spores onto as large an area as possible. Ideology does the same thing, burying deep into to person's mind and fundamentally altering the frames upon which they see the world. Then, like the poor ant, they move to a particular hobby or interest and the political ideology within them bursts out, infesting their interpretation and comments on everything. Little can be done about it, as not even they are in control.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:55:21 2018 No.12300171

>>12300103
4chan's population has gone up, but mainly the change was in general online culture, not strictly in demographics. /lit/ used to be a small board populated mostly by aging LF faggots from SA, or at least the same type of poster but on 4chan, back when 4chan was vaguely liberal and the cool hip ironic thing to be on the internet was a college leftist.

That old vanguard is mostly dead or silent now, as any male leftists with testosterone have either moved right or retreated into the shadows in sheer despair over the state of the left. The hip internet left is now represented by insufferable buzzfeed queers, hated by everybody.

4chan's population has definitely swelled for the worse, but it's more a matter of drawing people here because it's right wing, than right wingers coming here and transforming the culture. Nobody wants to be an effeminate Buzzfeed queer who cries crocodile tears of nigger whining, and the word "left" is unfortunately associated with that now.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:55:31 2018 No.12300173

>>12299615
It's more relevant today since corporate property is already collectively owned by, generally a large number of, shareholders. In the 19th century most fixed-capital was still privately owned by fully liable individual entrepreneurs. You can understand the corporate consolidation movement as a form of "socialization" by private means to leverage economies of scale. Obviously not everything falls under this since in some sectors you still see wide distribution of classical privately owned and operated production of commodities going on but that's actually far and inbetween. Socialism is about workers taking control of and running these industries in their own interests which would mean they get to make the reinvestment and hiring/firing decisions which would logically result in minimizing work while still collectively maintaining some claim on the returns. Communism is about totally abolishing ownership of productive resources, not just workers taking control of them and operating them as they see fit.

>>12299663
It's not retarded, it's just anything used in the social commodity production process which can be manipulated for the narrow interests of someone's pecuniary return at the expense of the general interest. Tomorrow we could just stop enforcing intellectual property laws for a beginning and it's not like everything would blow up. A general baby step approach would look like this:
1. Every company with more than 50 employees would be required to issue new shares of its stock each year equivalent to 20 percent of its profits. Since the issuing of new shares does not cost the firm anything this does not interfere with operating expenses or investment plans.
2. These shares would be held in a trust collectively owned by all wage earners. Shares would not be sold.
3. As individual firms become majority worker owned the government could purchase the remaining privately held shares then turn the enterprises over to the workers of those enterprises.
4. Following a buyout the firm would no longer pay dividends but would pay a capital assets tax instead... the leasing fee the firms workers pay for use of the firms assets.
Also the term "real estate" includes land and buildings, two very different things which must be handled differently.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 09:58:02 2018 No.12300179

>>12300097
It's kind of a matter of debate what you consider personal property.
A popular definition of it in classical marxist circles was something like "items intended for personal use" and that includes clothes, homes, and vehicles.

But that is obviously outdated in contemporary times where people use a lot of these items as means of production. Production has become decentralized. The above definition made sense when production was still done in factories and workshops that were separate from ones living quarters. And items like computers, smartphones and other means of telecommunication weren't invented or used for profit generation. Even your personal car is now used for profit generation with uber and other side jobs.

Like I said the distinction between personal and private property was always arbitrary and only made sense in the context they were constructed in. There is no natural distinction between the two beyond perception.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 10:01:38 2018 No.12300191 >>12300171 This is the sad reality. You can easily blame americans for tainting the idea of what is "left" with their gay shit... (leftism was always pretty gay tho)

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 10:04:06 2018 No.12300197 >>12300167 the only thing worse than political brainrot is anime brainrot

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 10:05:56 2018 No.12300204 File: 141 KB, 850x1072, 1533016858029.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12300197 the power of anime pussy

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 10:15:28 2018 No.12300235

>>12300179
I don't think production is becoming anymore "decentralized" necessarily but actually the role of employment in general producing commodities is actually becoming relatively less in a growingly more automated process. More people are being adsorbed into what in classical economics would have been considered unproductive activities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productive_and_unproductive_labour

Also is Uber and such really viable businesses that will be around for very long?
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/travel/uber-ponzi-scheme-will-collapse/news-story/505149de242b80a521770d45a0e57bd8

Private car ownership in general is premised upon an unprofitable government infrastructure existing to support it. Computers can be used to independently produce and sell digital things but you couldn't without IP laws and this will only become more global and cut throat in the future.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 10:19:15 2018 No.12300247 >>12300000 quints >>12300087 How new are you to this board to not know who keeps repeating the 'X is sentient' meme and how new are you to life to never hear the Gaia hypothesis?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 10:20:17 2018 No.12300251 >>12300247 >quints quints confirmed

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 10:56:17 2018 No.12300395 >>12298838 OP here, naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 11:04:32 2018 No.12300429

>>12300235
>the role of employment in general producing commodities is actually becoming relatively less in a growingly more automated process
Nobody can really agree on the amount of job loss compared to the amount of job growth due to automation. The thing is entire job fields have been made redundant by automation since more than a hundred years now and there were always new (productive) jobs created as a result of the opportunities opened up by that automation.

>More people are being adsorbed into what in classical economics would have been considered unproductive activities.
There is a lot of freelancing especially when it comes to digital products, but what you are saying is indeed true to some degree. A lot of these activities are based on creating entertainment and art. And non-artistic or entertainment goods produced are usually low complexity consumer goods, used for direct consumption or direct personal usage by the customer. Compared to some industrial level good that is then used to produce some other industrial level good.

>Also is Uber and such really viable businesses that will be around for very long?
The article doesn't understand what aggressive expansion is. Uber is trying to grow into a mostly untapped market and tries to become a monopoly before the various competitors that are already springing up everywhere can establish their own local monopolies. Uber might die at some point for whatever reason, but the business model lives on.

>Private car ownership in general is premised upon an unprofitable government infrastructure existing to support it.
I am unaware of this. Is the maintenance of the road infrastructure really unprofitable overall? I would expect the wealth produced by the ability of the people to move around from point A to B quickly and independently would vastly outweigh the invested tax dollar for maintaining this infrastructure.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 11:12:16 2018 No.12300457 >>12300395 Why not? People like you are his target audience.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 11:28:29 2018 No.12300511

>>12297890

What changed your mind specifically? /pol/ is a mess, but is right about the jews and that white displacement is true. That society is top-down and controlled by probably a few hundred mega rich capitalists (jews and gentiles) and they promote globalism/neoliberalism as the masses' religion s pretty incontestable. It's just what to do about things is where the differences arise.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 11:32:46 2018 No.12300519 >>12300247 The Gaia hypothesis is unscientific feelshit. It should be kept in ff7.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 11:48:19 2018 No.12300569

>>12300247
>how new are you to life to never hear the Gaia hypothesis?
I have heard of it but I didn't think there are people outside of hippy grandmas who actually believe it. Especially in the left that makes fun of Christians all the time for having irrational beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 11:53:16 2018 No.12300586 >>12300519 >>12300569 I know it is a shit theory, i am just shocked that you are shocked that such an idea of sentient nature was that novel to you

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/lit/ - Literature