What is the philosophy behind transgenderism?

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Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:41:15 2018 No.12287873 [Reply] [Original]

What is the philosophy behind transgenderism?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:42:11 2018 No.12287877 Mutant Cartesian dualism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:42:28 2018 No.12287878 >>12287873 Selling dumb shit to retarded faggots i.e capitalism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:43:36 2018 No.12287882 >>12287873 >got diddled as a child so ill become the girl my rapist pedo uncle wanted me to be

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:45:48 2018 No.12287885 too much anime

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:47:37 2018 No.12287891 >>12287877 >>12287878 >>12287882 >>12287885 /lit/ is truly a place for intellectuals

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:49:01 2018 No.12287894 >>12287891 well, what is the philosophy of transgenderism then if those are wrong?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:50:39 2018 No.12287900 >>12287894 Scientific evidence mixed with the recognition that gender is a social construct. Get over it you reactionaries

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:51:37 2018 No.12287904

Modern transgenderism? It is made an easy option to the young and impressionable. I believe teens (or psychologically regressive adults) see it as a way to rebel from their parents, demand attention, and most importantly live a new identity. All forms of transgenderism are extremely unhealthy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:51:58 2018 No.12287906 >>12287900 t. kid that got diddled

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:52:30 2018 No.12287909 File: 144 KB, 900x789, christ-in-the-wilderness-ivan-kramskoi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12287900 Terrible bait.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:52:53 2018 No.12287910 >>12287900 Hmm, that is interesting. What is this scientific evidence and who are the philosophers who believe gender is a social construct?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:55:29 2018 No.12287914 >>12287904 im going to fucking kill myself

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:57:26 2018 No.12287919 >>12287914 As if to prove my point...

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:57:37 2018 No.12287921

>>12287873
I talked to a trans professor about this. They said, if gender was all genetic then we wouldn't find people who felt gender dysphoria, or women who are more masculine etc. On the other hand they acknowledged it can't all be social, there are clearly masculine and feminine traits from birth. So this person saw it as some combination of genetics and social participation in roles and an individual can feel more comfortable in the opposite role.

I am not into trans stuff, but I find this view incredibly reasonable. That doesn't mean I need to let trans people babysit my kids or whatever. The media push is out of control

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:57:43 2018 No.12287923 >>12287885 This basically. Transgenderism is a social contagion spread among weebs through discord groups

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:57:49 2018 No.12287925 >>12287910 Deleuze

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:05:52 2018 No.12287947
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It's a neurological issue that we mostly know how to deal with. Left untreated, it has a very high mortality rate (picrel). Early detection and intervention is the best practice until we learn how to actually manipulate people's brains in a precise way. Some activists hijacked it, and are the most visible spokespeople but you shouldn't listen to them and should stick to the empirical data. Transpeople are people and should be treated with acceptance and compassion like any others

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:23:51 2018 No.12287997

I used to be so behind the transgender/gender revolution. I went to rallies and had many friends in the community. My best friend came out as trans and I’d drive him to get treated with hormones. I was in very deep. Then my best friend started behaving so erratically and became an alcoholic, lost his job, starts slyibg to me and didn’t pay the bills on the place we shared together. I came home multiple times to ambulances there trying to make sure he wasn’t dead of suicide. He even shit his pants one time. I started hearring crazy lies about me in our friend group and we eventually had a huge fight about all of this shit. He told me he doesn’t give a shit about the opinion of men anymore.

Despite all of this I still thought this was an abberant individual that didn’t reflect on the gay community. As the years went on every single trans person I knew started to become mentally unhinged with multiple suicide attempts who were so emotionally unavailable they couldn’t be there for me as a friend through my own problems. We grew older. I started to realize so much of what they were doing comes from a place
Of absolute narcissism, and none of it is working within a void. Being gay has always been a normal thing people did, there were even gay Nazis. What’s happening now IS NOT THAT. It’s a total cultural phenomenon that’s artificial and panders to specific people. It comes attached to not just simply identifying a certain way but with a whole world view that’s already mapped and locked into every emotional and political point you could ever dream of. I feel bad for these people, but on the other hand they’re so pathetic and weak. Nobody under 30 has any idea about any of this, it’s all masquerading as synonymous to being gay, and it’s so far from that. I was on the front lines, in living the culture as it’s playing out. None of the figureheads or celebrities or anyone else knows what it’s like being a young person in the cultural milieu of all of this. They’re so out of touch.

Now I dream about how I wish all these people would literally get hit by a car or get cancer and die because they’re lost causes. Young people know this intuitively and the future looks less accepting and quite grim for gay people because of this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:23:58 2018 No.12287998 >>12287947 If it's neurological issue than both sex and gender are based in biology, and you can't just go inventing genders on a whim.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:29:08 2018 No.12288012 >>12287998 No shit, thats not what were talking about here. Transgenderism is caused by improper prenatal masculization of the brain. Genderqueer stuff is something made up by bored cishet women

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:33:35 2018 No.12288017 >>12287885 I dunno if anime encourages gender dysphoria, but it most certainly encourages pedophilia

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:37:16 2018 No.12288023 >>12288017 It's probably more correlative and causative. A lot of kids that don't fit in ecscape into anime these days

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:37:39 2018 No.12288024 >>12287873 Critical theory, post-modernism and 3rd-4th wave feminism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:38:26 2018 No.12288026 Men coveting womenhood, women experiencing discomfort at feminine gender roles and how society consumes their bodies

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:39:48 2018 No.12288028 Judaism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:52:17 2018 No.12288064 >>12287873 Man’s sinful nature and rebellion against God extending to denial of that most basic of revealed truths, “male and female created He them.”

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:52:31 2018 No.12288068 >>12287873 kim ilsungism kim jongilism

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:54:28 2018 No.12288075
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>>12288064
yeah, I’m a Christian, you got a problem with that? I used to be a sinner like you but 2 years ago I found GOD. In my teens I would laugh at creationists; I would always tell my grandma that I didn’t want to go to mass; I was agnostic but not like r/Atheism. But when I GREW UP and became a man, I realised I needed to put childish things away (1 Corinthians 13:11). Why is that? Because I realized that we need Christianity to SAVE THE WEST. After I voted Trump in the 2016 election I decided to go to church again. I knew that I would find a QT pure Christian GF who I could lose my virginity to (I haven’t lost it yet because I’m saving myself for marriage, like God intended). I haven’t found her yet, but like Job I will pray and have faith in God. Then I saw Jordan Peterson talking about Christianity and I was hooked! (I don’t like him anymore though, he’s a fake Christian). I watched all his videos on the bible and realised how God reveals himself in many ways. I was on /pol/ (came from r/The_Donald during the election but I hate redditors now) Christian General and I saw /lit/ chart which had The Bible and I KNEW I found my people. Every day I see THE WEST falling because we gave up our FAITH. Well, the new Christian intellectuals are coming; We are the sons of the Crusaders and we shall not recoil before the sons of Voltaire! (Candide was shit, so is Nietzsche (haven’t read either of them)). /lit/ introduced me to Kierkegaard and I became a KNIGHT OF FAITH, so now I know that I just gotta believe and that’s TRUE bravery. I read DANTE and DOSTOEVSKY and I saw the beauty of God and true art. I’m a proud Catholic (Protestants are heretics) but I hate Pope Francis, he’s a heretic and isn’t MY Pope. /lit/ is a Christian board, and I know that if I just keep recommending the Bible, telling people to go to church, and making threads about how great God is, I will finally be able to sincerely believe in God and distract myself from the gnawing feeling that I’m a fraud. Faith ain’t easy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:55:54 2018 No.12288076 >>12287873 Awful misreadings of Foucault and Butler filtered through three tumblr posts and one half-understood 200 level sociology class which is already just philosophy for brainlets with a heavy dose of bourgeois moralism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:56:58 2018 No.12288080 >>12288064 But Adam was trans. He generated Eve from himself

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:57:04 2018 No.12288082 File: 26 KB, 583x616, 1517619503692.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288075 >GOD'S NOT DEAD HE'S SURELY ALIVE

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:57:18 2018 No.12288083 >>12287885 /thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:58:26 2018 No.12288086 >>12287873 Literally accelerationism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:58:37 2018 No.12288088 >>12287910 Leibniz, Fichte, Stirner, Marx, Freud.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:59:14 2018 No.12288090 >>12288075 This, but unironically

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:04:32 2018 No.12288105 It's a reaction against capitalism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:06:35 2018 No.12288114 >>12287885 >>12287882 >>12287878 Mostly these in all actuality.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:14:38 2018 No.12288133

>>12287921
>if gender was all genetic then we wouldn't find people who felt gender dysphoria
Because there are no genetic disorders? I don't even disagree with the conclusion, but that's just stupid.
Also it's a hell of a leap from "some people are not happy with the social role related to their sex" to "people can and should be able to change their sex".

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:20:25 2018 No.12288150 >>12287877 It is a warped dualism with Gnostic elements.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:24:07 2018 No.12288163 Godlessness

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:24:11 2018 No.12288165

>>12287873
Commodification of identity. Under Capitalism we're so used to hearing that everything is attainable that when something is beyond reach, like belonging to a different gender, it evokes a desire that only grows greater when seeing how every other type of identity is marketed and sold uncontroversially. It doesn't help that gender roles are still heavily ingrained in the collective unconciousness. Trans people use gender as a scapegoat for their alienation from society, just like minorities use opression and conservatives use the left, it's all an excuse not to notice how powerless we are in this system and at the same time an excuse not to engage in any sort of self-improvement.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:27:58 2018 No.12288182 Funny seeing lefties blaming trannies on capitalism HAHAHA God this is truly a great time to be alive

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:29:01 2018 No.12288185 File: 76 KB, 669x1206, 1544916888599.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12287873 >society teaches that you can choose who you are >people start choosing to be the other sex

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:29:54 2018 No.12288191

>>12287873
Overwhelming self-loathing, often paired with sexual trauma, potentially manifested as dysphoria, and a desire to adopt a new identity to escape it. So in other words
>>12287882
This.
Otherwise it's a faggot who gets horny at the thought of being a dickgirl.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:31:46 2018 No.12288198 >>12288182 t. brain dead moron

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:42:37 2018 No.12288237 >>12287873 Existentialism. Existence precedes essence.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:46:24 2018 No.12288254
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>>12287873
Fallen man is by nature rebellious toward God, his Creator. Transgenderism is yet another manifestation of man attempting to become his own creator. The Enlightenment allowed this to happen.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:47:39 2018 No.12288261 >>12288182 Well it's not like there's something left of our culture that hasn't been permeated by Capitalism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:47:58 2018 No.12288262 >>12288254 I should add that it's also supposed to happen to the degree that it does. It will all end in fire.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:51:07 2018 No.12288268 >>12288198 Suck a turd directly out of my fucking asshole you pretty little girl, daddy is waiting >>12288237 This is the correct answer ( spurred on by lack of religion and capitalism and an amalgamation of almost every answer here )

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:05:00 2018 No.12288296
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>>12287873
Dugin is right on this. Transgenderism is liberalism taken to the furthest extent. Liberalism, in Dugin's view, is the subjugation and destruction of all collective identities to arrive at the absolute, atomised, and deraccinated individual. Liberalism destroyed class identity, the "castes" of traditional Aryan society and Marxism was a kind of reaction in opposition to that. Liberalism has destroyed racial identity and fascism/national socialism is a reaction in opposition to that. Now, liberalism has destroyed gender identity, because forcing belonging to the collecitve of "gender" is an imposition on the absolute individual which liberalism will not tolerate, so transgenderism, gender-fluidity, and all other rejections of traditional gender identities are the current weapon of liberalism in its greater effort to destory any collective being which can threaten it. Dugin also links this to transhumanism, saying that once class, race, and even gender are all optional or abolished, the next target of liberalism will be the collective of humanity. At this point liberalism will consider the mandatory belonging to humanity to be an imposition on the absolute individual that must be destroyed, hence, the destruction of humanity must come about for liberlaism to continue existing, ever-progressing, ever-morphing. This is particularly dangerous as Dugin's Fourth Political Theory employs Dasein as the object of its thought. Dasein is of course, unique to humans, so this destruction of humanity would prevent even this last ditch attempt to defend against liberalism by undoing any ontological unity in mankind. Post-humanity will be liberalism victorious with no way back, no recourse, never ending hell. Trannies are step 3 of 4

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:09:05 2018 No.12288306

>>12287873
Judith Butler, bull dyke and Jewess, took some retarded idea from the 80s where marxist class analysis is decoupled from the context of economy and is applied instead to gender.

It was a tenure gambit that worked well for her, but no so much for society.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:10:26 2018 No.12288312

>>12288296
Not even close dude. Transgenderism is all about being co-opted into the capitalist panopticon and has more accessories and entertainment marketed to and about it than any social moment ever seen before it in terms of how fast it was absorbed into culture.

None of these trannies view themselves outside of a group or atomized/individual. It’s a tailor made worldview that has tenents for every social situation and an entire dogmatic way of living attached to it.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:13:06 2018 No.12288322

>>12287997
>that feel when you realize that becoming a cartoon of a woman is actually what they are doing, not to be what their innermost self is externally, but to escape their very real psychological problems.

You talk to 50 transpeople you talk to 48 people in therapy on medication and two that are in and out of jail for doing psychotic stuff IRL

I know the feels. You wanted to believe them on face, but they literally hide their face value as an externalization of their inner duplicity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:14:30 2018 No.12288327 >>12287900 >gender is a social construct >need hormones and surgeries to change a social construct yes very coherent

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:16:59 2018 No.12288337

>>12288312
>Transgenderism is all about being co-opted into the capitalist panopticon
Of course, liberalism and capitalism are literally the same thing.

>and has more accessories and entertainment marketed to and about it than any social moment ever seen before it in terms of how fast it was absorbed into culture.
Tranny culture and identity is not legitimate culture though is it. It is pure facade which is almost always characterised by a negation of traditional culture and identity. Liberals capitalists make money of them but that doesn't mean they are a part of a real whole.

>None of these trannies view themselves outside of a group or atomized/individual
What the trannies think or don't think is meaningless. They are being used to attack collective identity and tradition. Liberalism can easily facilitate the creation of fragile and limited collective idenities, which are bound to failure if they can be used to destory more coherent traditional ones

>It’s a tailor made worldview that has tenents for every social situation and an entire dogmatic way of living attached to it.
Their whole worldview and the tenets for every social situation is nothing more than being transgressive though. They don't provide anything new or substantial, just polemics against tradition and identities that aren't their own or beneficial to them.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:18:22 2018 No.12288340

>>12288327
Also, if gender IS a social construction that is harmful, why would one not want to stop playing the game, drop out of any social gender identity and role?
Why purposefully choose the most marginal and physically risky gender identities?

They are obsessed with the idea of enforced patriarchal oppression and their response is to not drop out or even emulate the strong position-- they choose very publicly the weakest possible position!

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:20:54 2018 No.12288343 >>12288327 The very idea that a social construct is something you can pick and choose on an individual level is already incoherent. Money is a social construct, but you can't just pick your bank balance.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:25:06 2018 No.12288353 >>12288343 But you can pay in bitcoin

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:26:26 2018 No.12288356

>>12288337
I don’t disagree with most of your analysis here as the nihilism this artificial culture pushes them to offers nothing new or substantive as you said. It’s also obvious they’re useful idiots for the liberal party to attack traditionalists but where we disagree is that they’re anything like individualists. These people are just buying into the newest social trends that are pre-packaged for them but it’s obvious your point of view is seeing all morality and value in tradition and I don’t belive that. Yes, I belive in masculinity and prefer traditional women. No, I don’t believe in objective morality as there is no god. Im what an actual individualist looks like, and we probably have 99% of our morality and values in common. I’m asking you not to shun people like me because as globalism proceeds we will need eachother. Your kind and my kind will need to Stand together, and I value your morality as a pillar of society.

Just consider it a bit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:28:21 2018 No.12288361 Regarding the trannies on 4chan, >>12287885.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:28:39 2018 No.12288362 >>12287900 If transgendered individuals are just 0.6% of the US population then gender correlates to underlying sex at 0.994

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:38:13 2018 No.12288378

I've never really understood modern transgender activists. It's one of those situations where the basis of what they believe sounds plausible: that a distinction can be drawn between what you are, genetically, and what you are, socially and culturally. But "can" does not imply "should", and I don't understand why a person experiencing gender identity issues should be physically transformed to eliminate the problem, any more than we should acquiesce to other mental disorders: we would never suggest an anorexic have weight-loss surgery, or carry out the desires of a rambling schizophrenic.

Often the ideas are justified with straightforwardly bad history and anthropology. The one I'm familiar with is the idea that fa'afafine are a third gender, sometimes used to justify the normalisation of non-traditional gender roles. But this is a western imposition: any glance at the historical record (acknowledging potential bias in the missionaries, who may have expunged unChristian behaviour) clarifies that fa'afafine are (biological) men socialised as women, from their historic participation in female labour, to their acceptable sexual partners. It is even in the name, fa'afafine meaning "in the manner of a woman" or "to be as a woman". Fa'afafine as a normalised third-gender is a modern western imposition.

It makes sense that gender is part of your identity, but gender is a specific thing, as distinguished from ethnicity, or culture, or other parts of your identity. It is that part of your identity which supervenes on sex, so while a distinction may fairly be made between sex and gender, the two are still intimately related. To deny this is to say that a person's genetics has literally no impact on their identity and behaviour, which is obviously nonsense.

>>12287997
There's a bit of this as well, though obviously seeing a few cases that confirm your beliefs doesn't make them true. Every transgender person I've met is, to some unpleasant degree, both unhinged and repugnant. In their defense, I think it's obviously the hedonistic, selfish activist subculture that purports to speak on their behalf. Gay people often belong to the same subculture, though being gay is far more normalised, so you meet gay people that aren't absolutely shambolic human beings.

In many ways modern "transgenderism" (if you want to call it that) and its accompanying obsession with sex and gender identity resembles more a deviant sexual subculture than an actual expression of personal identity.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:40:12 2018 No.12288382

>>12288356
Traditionalism will certainly accept you, so long as you do the things.
that's all Tradition is, a set of things we do, regardless of our personal suspicions about the practicality or rationale.
You do the things because we always have.
That's actually a thing I learned in childhood, unlearned as a young man, and then relearned as it went on.

The Asians and believe it or not Jews are part of how I relearned.
They have a tradition, a Way of Doing Life that goes back before history and will be here after history stops recording in the coming crises.
No matter how hard they get stomped, or what the ideological flavor is, Traditional Peoples do the same shit their ancestors were doing 20k years ago.

That is the strength of Tradition: it does not require your faith or your reason, just your action. You will believe in the end more what you DO than you will ever DO as you believe.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:48:55 2018 No.12288396

>>12288382
It pleases me to hear this and I agree. I value traditionalism but I got there through deep questioning and years of learning. I still think of myself as an individual in so many ways but I arrived to my personal morality and values by observing that they work practically. I think some people aren’t strong enough to do this and give in to nihilism and weakness which I can understand why many despise it. But it has been a hard journey for me and I’m very proud of my evolution.

It will be us men that will put the world together once more.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 03:59:45 2018 No.12288412

>>12288361
What about the huge increase in trans persons just over the last few years?
I remember hearing about study which, although it supposedly had quite a few methodical problems, proposed the peer group played quite a role in people identifiying themself as trans (have one transgirl come out on the discord server which serves as your peer group and another few will follow).

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:10:55 2018 No.12288441

It falls apart when you realize there's no such things as "body dysmorphia." It's literally just mental perversion. There's no magical part of the brain that says the body should look this way or that way besides in basic, elemental ways. Most of the "feminine looks" they want are results of flattering clothes and make up and don't even exist in reality.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:14:47 2018 No.12288449 BUT YOU GUYS TRANS PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS EXISTED IN CULTURES THIS IS NORMAL NOW WHY WONT THE GOVERNMENT GIVE ME FREE HORMONES UUGGHH I JUST WANT TO BE ACTUALIZED BY MY FAVORITE DRUG COMPANIES I LUV U PFIZER DADDIES

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:16:02 2018 No.12288452 >>12288441 Yes. >"there are no biological differences between men and women" >"trans people are men with women's brains! " the fucking left and its gnosticism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:20:58 2018 No.12288461 Remember to not call your pet "he" or "she" because they can't tell you their gender. Use they/them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:25:55 2018 No.12288469 >>12288461 got it ;)

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:27:36 2018 No.12288471
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>>12288412
Specifically I mean stuff like this:
www.reddit.com/r/egg_irl/
Let a young, struggling loner, insecure about his identity and place in the world, who doesn't really fit in the traditional model of male masculinity, perhaps not 100% hetero, with a dash of autistic traits on top read this stuff for a while and I think the chance of him out as trans is well over >1%.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:33:26 2018 No.12288486 File: 89 KB, 1000x600, 234235.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What did Foucault write about it?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:34:11 2018 No.12288488 >>12288471 That pic... LMAO

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:39:14 2018 No.12288501 >>12287904 the armchair psychologist in action

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:42:21 2018 No.12288509 >>12287873 People are things I own myself as a thing Usus, fructus, abusus Freedom is the right to abuse myself! It's the ultimate stage of liberalism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:44:33 2018 No.12288512 >>12288509 People that advocate liberalism, indirectly abuse others. Damn

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:45:51 2018 No.12288517 File: 257 KB, 350x304, 346346.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:48:05 2018 No.12288523 >>12287873 autogynephilia

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:52:39 2018 No.12288532 Anomie.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:54:16 2018 No.12288534 too much anomie

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 04:56:05 2018 No.12288542 File: 342 KB, 476x401, 4fHYLz1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288517

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:00:47 2018 No.12288551 File: 1.84 MB, 202x360, 1545539695197.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288517

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:08:09 2018 No.12288561

>>12288512
well that's a radical way to phrase things but it's not wrong. - it's the issue of hippie parents for instance. when you got some authority upon someone and you tell em "Do what you want", it can actually be indirect abuse. It can indirectly harm them.
However when saying 'liberalism' I should have added individualism. Liberalism itself can be related to universalism. When it's not, and it's strictly grounded on individualism, then it's indeed shit and can lead to transgenderism. (as a consequence, >>12288237 is right, at least half right, in that existentialism is individualism even if Sartre wouldn't admit it)
I wonder if existentialism is necessarily liberal. Possibly. If yes, that sucks.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:10:09 2018 No.12288566 >>12287900 you'll always be a second rate woman and a second rate man. you're most likely unsalvageable go to /lgbt/ and leave this board alone, you were tricked by hideri and felix that you could look like that if you tried hard enough

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:16:25 2018 No.12288578 File: 131 KB, 227x240, her face when jozef.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288561 >existentialism is individualism even if Sartre wouldn't admit it woah what is this? can you elaborate

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:17:05 2018 No.12288579 >>12288088 are there male and female monads ? more precisely, male and female spirits (spirit being a monad that can think, that is, a soul)

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:17:51 2018 No.12288581 >>12288579 >spirit being a monad that can think, that is, a soul That's not what a monad is, brainlet

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:18:36 2018 No.12288583 >>12288561 >I wonder if existentialism is necessarily liberal. It’s either co-depedant or existesialism is emergent of liberalism. I believe the idea of liberalism came first.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:20:03 2018 No.12288587
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>>12287900
>gender is a social construct
Gender is socially articulated, but it is still grounded in biology. This allows for some cultural variance, but not much. The fact that gender roles are pretty consistent across the board, and that men and women tend to thrive in their respective roles, suggests that they aren't just some arbitrary power-play like gender theorists want us to believe. The kind of evil implied in the concept of patriarchy would make this world irredeemible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:25:27 2018 No.12288592 If gender is really a social construct unrelated to sex as trans people claim then why do they attempt to change their sex - transition?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:35:59 2018 No.12288611
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>>12288509
What is the ethical way to deny people the "right" to abuse themselves?

What measures should be expected of a family member or a close friend? What should be expected from the rest of us?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:38:02 2018 No.12288615 >>12288086 Sharp

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:39:05 2018 No.12288618 >>12288488 Save it my friend, it's all yours! :)

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:58:48 2018 No.12288648

>“[I]n many ways nonsense is a more effective organizing tool than the truth. Anyone can believe in the truth. To believe in nonsense is an unforgeable demonstration of loyalty. It serves as a political uniform. And if you have a uniform, you have an army.”

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 06:01:14 2018 No.12288655

>>12288337
>What the trannies think or don't think is meaningless. They are being used to attack collective identity and tradition. Liberalism can easily facilitate the creation of fragile and limited collective idenities, which are bound to failure if they can be used to destory more coherent traditional ones
true, this is like urban tribes of the past centered around consumption, they were loved by capitalism. now even that is untenable as an identity and we have to move on to more dissipated forms of identity like "gender explosion" or "travelling alone"

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 06:07:50 2018 No.12288669

>>12288412
Rapid onset gender dysphoria, the result of suddenly indoctrination from exposure to infected peer groups could be related to the process described by Yuri Bezmenov; Soviet agents infiltrated college campuses to spread subversive ideas, others who were never even sleeper agents became useful idiots and pareoted these ideas, and the subversion once set in motion continues to move on its own.
In the case of transgenderism, the most obvious 'original agents' responsible are pharmaceutical companies and trans surgical practices, which donate a great deal of money to transgender activist organizations.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 06:10:30 2018 No.12288673
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>>12288378
>and I don't understand why a person experiencing gender identity issues should be physically transformed to eliminate the problem, any more than we should acquiesce to other mental disorders
well, this is part of the modern ideology started on the 60s (and from bad psychoanalysis) where mental issues are the fault of you repressing your desires, or of society not accepting your desires and not being empathetic enough towards you even when you are acting like a retard

i think by this point it's pretty clear that being too unhinged about your desires is not healthy for individuals or for society, but this idea still seems to permeate everything, psychology, "therapy" culture, normie magazine articles, and all that stuff. Specially women seem to believe very strongly on this-

when writing articles about the past they very often also frames the past in the lens of how those people's desires were repressed and the true message is that they should have abandoned all tradition and let their desires guide them

I recently saw the film Ironclad, which is a really bad and unimaginative "defend the fort" film, but it has the same message bolted onto it, that the main character should just drop all his beliefs and everything he believes in just to fuck the girl he likes, that this is the healthy choice and he should just done that from the beginning and if just everybody did that there would be no war

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 06:24:08 2018 No.12288704 >>12287873 Hedonism, materialism, capitalism, modernism, fetishism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 06:37:25 2018 No.12288735 >>12288566 Second rate is even putting is charitably. They are awful imitations of the real thing, and after surgery have desecrated what they objectively are, rather than whatever they think they are in their own heads.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:19:24 2018 No.12288797 File: 84 KB, 510x856, D48D0C70-FC29-46D8-833B-21F2EB33891B.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288075 Dank and epic maymay, comrade.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:20:13 2018 No.12288805

I could understand gender ROLES being a social construct, but mutilating kids with hormones and surgery making them believe they can truly be a girl or a man when reality is clearly otherwise is just plain evil.
Ive often compared it to telling a paranoid schizophrenic that they are right in their paranoia and telling them the voices are real AS a treatment for their mental illness

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:29:04 2018 No.12288824 People that just write things off as social constructs realize theyre not actually saying anything right?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:42:08 2018 No.12288843
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>>12287873
Medical companies wanting a quick buck out of the suffering of the mentally ill
https://medium.com/@sue.donym1984/inauthentic-selves-the-modern-lgbtq-movement-is-run-by-philanthropic-astroturf-and-based-on-junk-d08eb6aa1a4b

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:43:33 2018 No.12288844

>>12288611
Well I have no perfect answer but there SHOULD be an ethical way to deny people the "right" to abuse themselves. Everybody admits it when it comes to kids. Education in general is already something that denies people (kids) several rights regarding themselves. Now there's a lot of people who never actually grow smarter than kids, or more mature than kids. Is it fair that some adult people are under legal custody for legit reasons ? I think it's fair yeah.
More generally it's really hard to decide what kind of advice should be given to a close friend. What should I tell my friend when he wants to quit smoking ? When he wants to commit suicide ? When he wants to "transition" ? I think "do what you want" is not always the best advice, and not a necessarily legit one.

>>12288581
re-read Monadology, square brainlet. "Spirit" has a very specific meaning.

>>12288578
The whole lecture "L'existentialisme est un humanisme" is supposed to explain how existentialism does not equal individualism. Existentialism does imply the rejection of morals. However I think the way Sartre explains it is not convincing at all. He says that whenever I make a choice, my decision is good for me, therefore it's good for all according to me (in that everybody should make the same choice in a similar situation). The argument seems quite poor to me, that's why I guess existentialism can still be said to equal individualism.

>>12288583
Yeah I think you're right. It sucks because I like good old Sartre but yeah.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:45:21 2018 No.12288846 >>12288844 >Existentialism does imply the rejection of moral sry, meant 'does NOT' (according to Sartre's lecture)

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:53:19 2018 No.12288865 >>12288088 >literally whos and pseudo-scientists Unsurprised and unimpressed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:57:19 2018 No.12288875 >>12287878 Yes but more correctly, enlightenment individualism

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:58:20 2018 No.12288878

>>12287873
Not much a philosophy. More like unadulterated schizophrenia.
The philosophy behind letting them not just have said delusions, but to force everyone else to behave like said delusions are the truth, is mainly marxism, particularly when it comes to acting out the second part of Marx's manifesto (the part about bringing the existing culture down to replace it with a communist one). In that sense, it might also be considered accelerationism, trying to make the countries where said schizophrenic behavior is forced upon its citizens to go the way of Rome asap.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:58:41 2018 No.12288879 >>12287873 Don't they just do it due to severe gender disphoria?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:01:02 2018 No.12288884 >>12288879 Was. It is now a fashion statement, kinda like political lesbianism. And sadly I'm not even joking. There's been studies, and taking hrt and chopping your dick off happens in clusters.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:20:07 2018 No.12288936 >>12288884 Happens with all kinds of mental illnesses. Back in the good old days, parents would just beat stuff like autism out of their kid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:22:02 2018 No.12288940 >>12287885 This

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:22:59 2018 No.12288941 >>12288936 >The extreme rise of autism is because parents dont beat their children enough Somehow I believe this is true.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:31:31 2018 No.12288967

>>12288936
>>12288941
Don't you guys think that we're being too shy with physical punishments? I mean, why not the whip instead of a few weeks in prison? I'm not being ironic. It should be possible to inflict pain without harming too much, without inflicting something unacceptable. Every physical punishment is not necessarily unacceptable.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:34:12 2018 No.12288977 >>12288967 You're misunderstanding the meaning of discipline. It isn't meant to punish the child, but to correct their behavior.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:34:25 2018 No.12288979

>>12288967
works well for Singapore, the problem with physical punishments is that you will probably end up with a justice system full of psychopaths

the right person to administer such punishments would be a person very reluctant to do it, but that's never the case on the long term

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:36:58 2018 No.12288984 It's not a philosophy, it's more like "i feel like shit when i look in the mirror because i want to be (opposite sex) so i wanna change it"

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:38:52 2018 No.12288995 >>12288984 are you saying mirrors are the problem?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:45:54 2018 No.12289028 >>12288995 Mirrors aren't real. The problem is vanity and the weird belief that we should be happy and if we aren't happy we need to change things to become happy

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:47:09 2018 No.12289037 >>12289028 agree

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:48:30 2018 No.12289040

>>12288977
Yep sure. Now apart from education, when it comes to crime, every punishment does not have to "correct". Sometimes it does, sometimes it does not.
(But hey, back on topic - perhaps the rise of transgenderism comes from the lack of pain inflicted by parents. Is it an unacceptable hypothesis or just a stupid one? When fathers would hit their boys, boys would develop the urge to become a good man and kill and replace their father. That's how things worked. That's how men were constructed.)

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:50:54 2018 No.12289046 >>12287885 I don't kniw too many transgenders, but u doubt someone like Caitlin Jenner is browsing /a/

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:53:35 2018 No.12289060 >>12289046 You'd be surprised how many people in their 40s and 50s browse /a/.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 08:57:30 2018 No.12289078 >>12289040 I'm not aware of any culture that has ever considered patricide part of being a good man.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:00:58 2018 No.12289093 >>12287900 Lit goes to show how even the most educated can be deceived by cultural trends judging by the dumb replies to your post.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:07:56 2018 No.12289121 >>12288296 do you know where can i get an english translation of his book?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:14:34 2018 No.12289147
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Holy shit this thread

Some regions of the brain are sexually dimorphic. Now, they're sexually dimorphic in the sense that height is sexually dimorphic, not in the sense that genitals are sexually dimorphic. Men are, on average, taller than women. Similarly some areas of the brain tend to look one way in women and another in men. Think of two largely overlapping bell curves.

The research shows that pre-HRT trans people, regardless of their sexual orientation, tend toward androgyny on the group level when it comes to some sexually dimorphic regions of the brain. That is, the center of the trans bell curve is roughly in between the other two. This is a significant finding but it can't be summed up as "trans people are actually the other sex inside". These regions are not *absolutely* dimorphic the way genitals are. We don't call tall women intersex despite of the fact that being tall correlates with being a man and being short correlates with being a woman.

There are studies that show that transness correlates with genes that reduce one's sensitivity to the dominant sex hormones of one's sex. The dimorphic regions of the brain are influenced by sex hormones. Twin studies show that if one identical twin is trans then the other is overwhelmingly more likely to be trans as well. In other words transsexuality almost certainly has a biological component and actually does correlate with masculinity in trans men and femininity in trans women. Now, does that mean that it is necessarily *entirely* biological? No. It could be that, yes, there is some as of now ununderstood network that controls for gender identity but it is also plausible that the biological differences merely predispose the individual toward developing a cross-sex identity.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:16:06 2018 No.12289153
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>>12289147
Animal studies show that if you expose certain animals to a certain amount of cross-sex hormones during key stages of their perinatal development they'll behave like animals of the opposite sex despite overtly looking like their "original" sex. I think that it is plausible that transsexuality is how this phenomenon expresses itself in humans.

Brain studies:
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/46/15466
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321820257_Structural_connections_in_the_brain_in_relation_to_gender_identity_and_sexual_orientation

Gene studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/

Twin/Heritability studies:
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2013-transsexuality.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323261652_The_Biological_Contributions_to_Gender_Identity_and_Gender_Diversity_Bringing_Data_to_the_Table

Animal studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3235069

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:22:43 2018 No.12289178 >>12289147 >there are physiologically effeminate men and masculine women Absolutely groundbreaking discovery.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:26:24 2018 No.12289191 File: 404 KB, 1409x4759, 0CB5744D-596A-48C2-92D3-C7C670CAF7C8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12289147 Nice twitter reaction gif!

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:30:41 2018 No.12289213
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>>12289121
Which one? The Fourth Political Theory and Rise of the Fourth Political Theory, which talk about the tranny question a little bit are published by Arktos who also publish Eurasian Mission, Ethnos and Society, and The Last War of the World Island. Those three deal almost exclusively with ethnosociology and geopolitics though. A lot of Dugin's good stuff can be read in English at http://www.4pt.su/en he also has quite a few good lectures up on youtube if you can understand his accent properly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNUKAQ61ay0&list=PLsDWunul1uS_-BR3BTxRgROHPP1K-rfDo for example is pretty good and gives you a fuck load of material to work with.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:31:18 2018 No.12289216 File: 56 KB, 960x720, slide_8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12289153 >>12289147

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:32:02 2018 No.12289220 >>12287873 yeah

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:32:28 2018 No.12289225 >>12289191 You do know that only a small fraction of tranners get bottom surgery and that it is mainly forced by governments in order to get legal recognition, right?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:34:33 2018 No.12289235 >>12289216 1. I didnt have a prenatal partial masculinization of my brain 2. Therefore no one else does

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:34:41 2018 No.12289236 >>12289147 This is the worst fucking post I’ve seen on the history of lit. Absolutely horrible all the way around, terribly executed and a fucking joke of a statement

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:37:12 2018 No.12289244 >>12288340 The oikophobe desires nothing more than to be trampled underfoot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:39:04 2018 No.12289251 Its just people who have forgotten that words is merely a tool for communication.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:40:24 2018 No.12289256 >>12289225 Only redditers say “you do know […], right”. So I will not be giving you any further (you)s and I’ve also reported you to the cyber police.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:42:11 2018 No.12289264 >>12289256 That's a common expression...

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:43:29 2018 No.12289267 >>12289236 Then talk about the substance and not the form. Or are all your critiques aesthetic and surface level?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:45:37 2018 No.12289278 >>12289264 … on reddit. This is now my last (you).

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:47:03 2018 No.12289287 File: 27 KB, 450x288, nobodycares.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12289235 >I justify fucking up my life and hurting everyone around me by citing some dimly understood science I think corroborates my self-pity

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:48:09 2018 No.12289291 >>12289267 What substance? It’s just meaningless “”””scientific””””” term after term. It’s all made up bullshit. I really want to skin all transgenders alive

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:49:27 2018 No.12289295 >>12289291 This level of cope

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:51:02 2018 No.12289305 >>12289295 Cope? What am I even supposed to be coping with?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:52:03 2018 No.12289310 >>12287873 Narcissism and sexual predation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:55:41 2018 No.12289323 >>12289235 >I have a slightly different innate hormonal balance >therefore taking my transvestism fetish to a whole new level and surgically disfiguring my body is justified

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:56:43 2018 No.12289332

>>12289153
Complete and total reversal of dimorphic sexual differentiation isn't possible in mammalians (that is yet)... it is however in fishes and amphibians. With mammals their morphology is interchangeable by hormonal intervention (that is appropriately timed) as can neurohormonal dimorphism. Behavioural differentiation is of course postnatal and is totally interchangeable by social/cultural decrees within the limits imposed by these irreducible dimorphisms.

>>12288296
Dugin's an idiot. The classical model of proper socialization for adults in liberal society must always refer us back to the Oedipal situation which presupposes the hegemony of the nuclear family within society. The growth of more narrow relations of genital sexuality has its origins exactly in the historical contraction of capitalism (its last period of expansion ended in 1971 and the collapse of Lehman's in 2008 was a nodal point in this contraction).

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:57:07 2018 No.12289333 >>12289305 Sour grapes, you don't understand it so you say it must be meaningless. Every one on this thread has their own ideological pet theory about tg'ism but the first person to actually share a falsifiable hypothesis is shit on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:59:59 2018 No.12289351 >>12288517 Literally the opposite

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:00:26 2018 No.12289355
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>>12289332
>Behavioural differentiation is of course postnatal and is totally interchangeable by social/cultural decrees within the limits imposed by these irreducible dimorphisms.
Is it though? Then periods, menopause, low t, and castration don't effect behavior? I find that hard to believe

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:02:07 2018 No.12289360 y'all niggaz is gay

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:03:51 2018 No.12289367 >>12289355 it isn't , he is just memeing

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:05:44 2018 No.12289375
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>>12289332
>Behavioural differentiation is of course postnatal and is totally interchangeable by social/cultural decrees within the limits imposed by these irreducible dimorphisms.
>within the limits imposed by these irreducible dimorphisms.
you are sweeping a lot of shit under that small remark

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:06:52 2018 No.12289378 Ayo hold up than society is the reason im gay? I wasnt born this way? DUDE WTF

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:07:00 2018 No.12289380 >>12289147 Based post but you pretty much destroy your own conclusion

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:08:18 2018 No.12289390

>>12289333
>the first person to actually share a falsifiable hypothesis
People are discussing the philosophy behind modern view of transgenderism, brainlet. "Woah some people are more biologically predisposed to particular things" is neither a pertinent nor a novel remark and your post is shit. Neck yourself.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:08:43 2018 No.12289392

>>12288378
Having spent a lot of time around islanders, I would translate “fa’afafine” as “faggot” and the more common slur “fafa” as “fag.” The revisionism of these leftists in claiming these as a culturally accepted third gender is astounding. Islanders hate gays.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:10:01 2018 No.12289397

>>12289332
>Behavioural differentiation is of course postnatal and is totally interchangeable by social/cultural decrees within the limits imposed by these irreducible dimorphisms.
>totally interchangeable
>within the limits
so basically 1% of the time, it works every time

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:11:03 2018 No.12289402 >>12289378 no no it doesn't work that way, you are gay because you are gay, but you are straight because of society

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:12:19 2018 No.12289408 File: 44 KB, 800x450, brainlettttt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12289332 (you)

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:13:21 2018 No.12289411 >>12289402 Everyone is straight. Some people choose to be degenerate sodomites however.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:13:38 2018 No.12289412

>>12289355
>>12289375
>>12289397
I specifically said within limits but there does exist large behavioural differences between societies based upon prevalent notions of sexuality. Egalitarianism and non-violence is related to sexually promiscuity (specifically with females as seen in bonobos).

http://whale.to/a/prescott3.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:14:11 2018 No.12289418 /shit/

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:15:11 2018 No.12289422

>>12289378
>Ayo hold up than society is the reason im gay? I wasnt born this way?
No you weren't. It's a cultural thing. Consider ancient Greece or the Islamic world during the Middle ages where man on man action was commonplace and culturally expected. They weren't born that way and neither were you

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:15:14 2018 No.12289423 >>12289412 >I specifically said within limits but the whole argument is about what those limits are, nobody is arguing that people are born as fully formed immutable entities

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:16:23 2018 No.12289427 >>12289412 so are you saying war is women's fault?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:17:17 2018 No.12289434

>>12289332
>The classical model of proper socialization for adults in liberal society must always refer us back to the Oedipal situation which presupposes the hegemony of the nuclear family within society
You've read too much, put down the books and take some time to reclaim your mind

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:17:35 2018 No.12289438

>>12289390
As if empiricism isn't a branch of philosophy. No one had brought up biological disposition until that post. Sometimes the most obvious of facts are the most often forgotten. Why is this topic any different from any other medical issue. Shall we discuss the "modern philosophical view" on scoliosis next?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:23:42 2018 No.12289467 >>12288182 If I were in medicine or fashion I would want trannies too. >treatments >surgeries >clothes >makeup All of these things cost money you know.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:23:49 2018 No.12289468 >>12287878 you lot are even more spooked about capitalism than pol is about jews.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:28:16 2018 No.12289491
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>>12289423
The sex chromosomes carry genetic code that tells the embryonic gonad to differentiate into "male" or "female" form... after this the gonads, and not the sex chromosomes, instruct the embryo on how to differentiate sexually... after this there are perhaps very little or no genetic instructions pertaining to sexual function but I'm not entirely sure. I know fetal androgen instructs the central nervous system to lower the threshold for dominance assertion (but that's not "aggression" per se!) and elevates the threshold for rehearsal of parentalism in childhood play and has effects on postpubertal erotic responses to visual images. Anyhow you can study behaviour without being a medical expert.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:28:45 2018 No.12289492 >>12289438 >Why is this topic any different from any other medical issue. Shall we discuss the "modern philosophical view" on scoliosis next? Are you just baiting for (you)s at this point?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:39:10 2018 No.12289543

>>12289492
"The main characteristic of the scoliatic is his inability to accept his own body. There are a vast area of physical therapists, doctors and support staff who support the delusion that he can have a normal spine. One must question the motivation of such a system that could support such a radical treatment. Perhaps insurance companies and marketing firms have appealed to his vanity in order to leach more money off of him, or perhaps politicians were aiming to score cheap political points by supporting the health bill. Regardless, the scoliatic has been led awry by postmodern existentialist neomarxism who have taught him to be unhappy with his back and to question sacred tradition"

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:41:31 2018 No.12289550 >>12289438 How does that make sense? Scoliosis is a pretty straight forward condition especially when compared to transgenderism. Pretty dishonest anon.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:45:38 2018 No.12289575

>>12289550
Just because it isn't immediately apparent doesn't mean it's not straight forward. Your judging it's complexity on people who have a neurological disorder that he been untreated for (frequently) decades. Of course trans people are neurotic and unadjusted. They lack the care they desperately need.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:52:06 2018 No.12289599

>>12289543
"The main characteristic of schizophrenics is their different perception of the surrounding world. There is a vast amount of pharmacologists, doctors and support staff who promote the idea that this deviation is dangerous to themselves and those around them and should be corrected or suppressed. One must question the motivation of such a system that would support such radical and often invasive treatments. Perhaps insurance companies and marketing firms have appealed to their vanity in order to leach more money off of them, or perhaps politicians were aiming to score cheap political points by supporting the health bill. Regardless, the schizophrenics have been led awry by oppressive patriarchal neoliberalists who have taught him to be unhappy with his hallucinations and to embrace the so-called progress"

Two can play at this game, halfwit.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 10:59:24 2018 No.12289627

>>12289575
>They lack the care they desperately need.
No, they're not looking for treatment. They're looking to exacerbate their condition and to enshrine themselves as a protected class. The moment scoliotics will start to demand to be a recognized minority with special rights that allow them to impose upon private sphere of others and encourage children with healthy spines to try and traumatize them, we can discuss your /b/-tier false analogy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:00:45 2018 No.12289635 Waiting for sex change operations to be recognized as the lobotomies of the 21st century

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:03:30 2018 No.12289641 >>12289635 Aren't lobotomies criticized because they weren't voluntary?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:03:49 2018 No.12289642

>>12289599
You're just reenforcing my point. After assigning all of the blame and rationalizing the disorder. The problem still remains: schizophrenia, scoliosis, gender dysphoria. All of these are medical disorders and don't reduce to ideology or social trends. You seem to have missed my point entirely

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:05:07 2018 No.12289647 >>12289627 And have you actually talked to gender dsyphorics about this? It sounds like your just repeating a YouTube tier strawman.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:06:12 2018 No.12289655 >>12289641 I'm pretty sure it was more for the fact that you shouldn't try to solve psychological problems by cutting out part of the fucking brain.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:08:10 2018 No.12289659 >>12288327 you don't need hormones and surgeries to be transgender. HRT and other operations are for those who want to feel more comfortable in their body and present themselves as the gender they want to express.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:09:52 2018 No.12289663 File: 174 KB, 1200x630, sei_22633423.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12289635 >Waiting for sex change operations to be recognized as the lobotomies of the 21st century. Can't happen soon enough.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:13:08 2018 No.12289676 >>12289147 I feel like you were going to make a point but gave up half the way through

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:25:52 2018 No.12289723

>>12289642
>All of these are medical disorders and don't reduce to ideology or social trends
>implying 'medicine' is not an ideological tool
In the Soviet Union dissidents were often diagnosed as mentally ill, and most mental illnesses usually reduce to 'not functioning as required for capitalism'. A doctor stamping a form isn't some universal truth, otherwise you would believe gender dysphoria was 100% an illness until a few years ago when it 100% stopped being an illness.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:37:07 2018 No.12289769

>>12289723
I see you know you know your Foucault well. I don't disagree with you on those points. Soviet psychologists did not however posit falsifiable models that have been repeatedly tested and refined in the way that the medical model of transgenderism has.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:39:49 2018 No.12289778 SCOLIATICS RISE UP!

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:46:51 2018 No.12289807 >>12287873 Essentialism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:50:55 2018 No.12289825 >>12289147 Nobody in this thread is going to care.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 11:52:30 2018 No.12289830 >>12289040 stop freudposting.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:11:14 2018 No.12289920

>>12289769
>repeatedly tested and refined in the way that the medical model
Well they would wouldn't they? The whole point is medicine is a product of ideology, and reflects ideological trends.
The same medical models proved homosexuality was due to unresolved Freudian issues, then proved it was due to abnormality in the brain, then in 1973 proved it wasn't a medical issue at all. Most trans folk would tell you they are not sick or diseased, and no doubt in a few years it will be proved medically that they aren't as the prevailing ideology changes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:13:40 2018 No.12289938 >>12289642 >All of these are medical disorders and don't reduce to ideology or social trends. But nobody disputed that, retard. That's why I called your post about physiological studie retarded and superfluous. Get your tranny head out of your ass.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:15:46 2018 No.12289950 >>12289647 Are you in fact denying the existence of very vocal and active movement for transgender rights? It sounds like you're running out of shitty excuses.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:18:32 2018 No.12289962

>>12289920
Okay I see where you are coming from now. Perhaps I shouldn't have said medical issue, maybe I should have said that gender identity is a concrete, immutable phenomenon and that the discrepancy between identity and body is the actual issue. I don't think we necessarily disagree

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:21:23 2018 No.12289978

>>12289950
I'll repeat myself. The majority of the movement has very little to do with treating gender dysphoria and has more to do with liberal virtue signaling than anything else. Those activists are just as much an obstacle to actual liberation as traditionalists are.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:21:52 2018 No.12289980

>>12287921
>that doesn't mean I need to let trans people babysit my kids or whatever
haha just you wait kiddo, soon you'll have a gun up against your head telling you you can either stop discriminating against them in your babysitter hiring practices or else the state will deem you unable to care for your child and sick CPS on your ass

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:24:18 2018 No.12289992 >>12288080 >He generated Eve fucking speed readers at it again

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:27:44 2018 No.12290007 >>12289938 How does no one dispute that? Take a quick survey of the thread. Everyone was attributing it to non physical causes. Marxism, narcissism and sin et cetera. Discussion of physical causes is sorely lacking in this debate.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:34:13 2018 No.12290038

>>12288865
Founder of calculus, founder of German Idealism, early writer of influential philosophies, one of the most influential philosophers in the modern age, founder of psychoanalysis.
Please tell me you are baiting. Otherwise, please stop posting on this board.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:34:22 2018 No.12290040 >>12289978 >>12290007 >The majority of the movement has very little to do with treating gender dysphoria >Discussion of physical causes is sorely lacking in this debate. You don't see the connection between this?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:40:18 2018 No.12290065 >>12290040 I don't understand what you are getting at

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:40:42 2018 No.12290069

>>12290038
>Founder of calculus
That would be Newton.
>founder of German Idealism
A literally who among a number of postkantians.
>early writer of influential philosophies
A literally who that influenced some imageboard memes.
>one of the most influential philosophers
>Marx
>philsopher
>founder of psychoanalysis
That's less impressive than "founder of a local icecream kiosk".

Try again, sweaty.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:43:14 2018 No.12290085

>>12290065
They're saying that the lack of discussion of physical causes has lead to the explosion of genderspecial social justice warriors because the discourse, rather than being dominated by factual concerns, has instead been dominated by the worst sort of politics and philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:45:29 2018 No.12290095 File: 239 KB, 500x514, 1542514147431.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12290069 not that guy but >that would be newton well memed my friend

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:46:06 2018 No.12290098

>>12289962
>gender identity is a concrete, immutable phenomenon
No, it clearly changes over time in the same individual. Consider how having children changes people's perceptions of what it is to be a woman or a man, and gender dysphoria itself can appear quite late in life. There is no concrete unchanging self that remains throughout the lifetime of a person, we don't have souls or essences, we are constantly becoming. The planks of the ship are constantly changing.
Also concepts of gender change across cultures and historical periods. It's literally the most mutable thing there is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:46:51 2018 No.12290101 >>12290098 The map is not the territory

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:48:00 2018 No.12290106 >>12290085 Oh, okay that what I thought you were going to say. I wholeheartedly agree with you in that case

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:51:40 2018 No.12290125

>>12290065
The discussion is about contemporary views on and sociocultural manifestations of transgenderism. Hence the mentioning of Marxism and narcissism and so on. You're not really adding anything to discussion or providing a new angle with your "ACKSHULLY #notalltrannies". You might as well mention people with intersex conditions and say "ACKSHULLY these are the only 'true trannies' and the rest are an obstacle to their liberation". The discussion is about the modern day social phenomenon at large and not about the insignificant fraction of a fraction of people that are actually severely physiologically androgynous. Apply yourself.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:52:51 2018 No.12290131
File: 222 KB, 895x1024, 1545223311916m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12290098
No, gender identity doesn't change after birth. Roles and presentation change, but not the core self identification. People transition in their later years because they learn to deal with repression/being honest about how they actually feel rather than an acausal categorical change in gender. You seem to be thinking about gender roles which is something entirely different

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:53:30 2018 No.12290135 Isnt post op regret like really low? Is that the only "treatment" that society will ever see as good?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:54:50 2018 No.12290145 >>12290098 >Consider how having children changes people's perceptions of what it is to be a woman or a man Precisely, people's idea on how to best implement their immutable gender identity changes, not the identity itself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:56:55 2018 No.12290151 >>12290125 Way to bring the cancer of democratizing philosophy into yet another aspect of existence.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:58:50 2018 No.12290161

>>12287873
Watch Contrapoints unless this is bait. I’d make sure to drawing lines in the sand regarding individuals’ motivations for acting out various gender identities and the actual descriptive/analytic justification (i.e:, the bonafide philosophical) reason for it. Let’s be real, 15 yr old confused tumblr twinks don’t know shit about Deleuze or Butler and are mostly acting out of herd mentality.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:00:01 2018 No.12290166 >>12290161 Contrapoints tranny is a trend tranny

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:00:38 2018 No.12290169 >>12290125 Look up the transmedicalist / tucute divide

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:01:53 2018 No.12290174 >>12290151 >oh no no no I might have to apply and explain myself instead of blurting out prefab sophist musings spiced with namedropping how can this be happening this is so passe and cancer Too bad, based pseudbro.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:04:28 2018 No.12290187

>>12290131
>>12290145
There is no unchanging self, we don't have souls or essences. I know you want this to be true to make your ideology work, but it can never be so. Everything about a person's identity can change over time, because everything that makes that person that person is changing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:05:23 2018 No.12290190 >>12290187 >we don't have souls Yeah, we know you don't, tranny.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:07:12 2018 No.12290205

>>12290125
>>12290174
>The discussion is about the modern day social phenomenon at large and not about the insignificant fraction of a fraction of people that are actually severely physiologically androgynous.
That's literally what we are talking about. Did you read anything? Trans people are neurologically androgynous, there was a whole bunch of links up there that you obviously didn't read. If we aren't talking about that then you are missing out on the bulk of the discussion. Apply yourself bucko

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:07:18 2018 No.12290206 >>12290187 Yeah this part of why I dont take trannies or genderspazzes seriously, who knows how these trend hopping retards are gonna be a few years down the line

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:08:45 2018 No.12290216 >>12290187 That's simply not true. We aren't talking about ideal categories or whatever. It's neurological body plans and cortical structures.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:09:09 2018 No.12290220 >>12290174 Sorry you can't read?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:23:17 2018 No.12290269 >>12290161 he literally gets turned on by looking like a woman, it's just a fetish thing

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:25:31 2018 No.12290282 >>12290205 >That's literally what we are talking about. No, that's what you are trying to slide the discussion into. People with physiological differences constitute a minuscule part of those who identify as trans.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:26:57 2018 No.12290285

>>12290216
The brain is not fixed, it's the most plastic thing we know. A person's conception of themselves changes enormously over time. You are not the same person you were when you were 10, and you don't think of yourself in the same way as you did when you were 10. Ideal categories have nothing to do with the point I'm making, that the self simply does not exist in the way it needs to exist to make transgender ideology work.
If I understand correctly you believe gender dysphoria is a difference between self image and body, and given self image changes constantly, it seems silly to permanently alter the body based on these impermanent whims. I feel the same about tattoos.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:27:36 2018 No.12290289 how does the philosophy of transgenderism reconcile the widespread feminist notion of gender as a social construct with the common biological essentialism "i was born with this gender but just in the wrong body"?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:30:12 2018 No.12290304 >>12289147 How does all that lead to transness anymore than a being very tall for a woman does?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:32:41 2018 No.12290324

>>12290282
If you want to discuss Marxism, would you want to read and talk about Das Kapital or would you talk to your undergraduate berniebro friend? Same difference. Trenders don't have dysphoria and therefore aren't trans and I think that we can both agree that we can safely discount their beliefs

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:34:16 2018 No.12290331 >>12290285 I don't disagree that people change over the course of their lifetime, but not to such a large degree. People have stable personality traits their whole life, and don't change gender unless there is some underlying physical difference

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:34:16 2018 No.12290332 >>12290289 they don't and don't have to, leftist politics are just a bunch of power tactics, they don't actually believe or have to believe in anything

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:34:19 2018 No.12290333

It's cool that you want to be the other sex but you never will be, and if you were born as the other sex you would be a different person entirely than the one who wants to change to it currently. Perhaps transitioning isn't the only way to make you feel happy and belonging.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:35:37 2018 No.12290341 >>12290289 idk but if you bring this up you'll be labelled a terf and harrassed by men- oops, I mean transwomen

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:35:37 2018 No.12290342 >>12290289 are you denying people the right to be irrational? die, fascist scum

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:35:49 2018 No.12290344 >>12290289 they left is held to literally no intellectual standards as long as they are pushing in the right direction

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:35:56 2018 No.12290345 Postmodernism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:37:22 2018 No.12290360 >>12287904 The more trans people I meet, the less I believe it's attention based. I couldn't tell you why, but I used to agree with you before talking to trans people.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:40:26 2018 No.12290370

>>12290324
>Trenders don't have dysphoria and therefore aren't trans and I think that we can both agree that we can safely discount their beliefs
That's not what they would say though. Incidentally that's why a lot ITT are touching upon the idea of gender as social construct and supposed freedom of everyone irrespective of their biology to self-assign one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:41:07 2018 No.12290375 >>12290345 that's just a meme word, doesn't mean anything

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:43:37 2018 No.12290384

>>12290370
you can self-identify as whatever you want, the ideology comes when you expect other people to play along, which is all based on "therapy" and "empathy" culture and other types of women ideologies that were created after the 60s

the problem with them is that they are given power but hold no true responsibility, they'll tell you doing something is good, but when it goes horribly wrong they still get to blame somebody else for the results instead of taking responsibility

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:53:20 2018 No.12290426

>>12290289
I don't know, but I imagine that recognizing gender as a construct does not altogether abolish its social function, and my guess is that most moderate feminists recognize that value gender has in society, and that a median between abolition and blind adherence to gender could be reached. So, though gender is largely a construct of society, certain essential bits must remain unchanged (genitalia are very distinct, and indisputably gendered), and despite the illusiory nature of gender, its effects can still be felt very tangibly due to the current power of the so-called construct. And furthermore, that with some reform, the need to associate genitals with sex at all might go away as gender categories dissolve. However, I don't think feminists really want to abolish gender, they want to provide a vocabulary for describing a detailed map of human sexuality, and in some ways, still very much agree that gender exists, but in a much more nuanced state.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 14:03:59 2018 No.12290464 >>12290426 So its just an autistic jargon game but for females and girly boys to get worked up about for whatever reason.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 14:10:12 2018 No.12290492

>>12288378
>I think it's obviously the hedonistic, selfish activist subculture that purports to speak on their behalf.

And they have no strength of character to deny this culture and live something else? Are you blaming their entire sense of manipulatated being on peer pressure?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 14:11:38 2018 No.12290500 File: 57 KB, 750x919, C8B9B9A2-BCB8-421E-BD46-3CAC88C0ED21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 14:18:10 2018 No.12290538

>>12290492
they are like 0.01% of the population, they can't fight against the progressives using them however they see fit for their own purposes, an no number of "based traps" is going to change this. There's nothing the left cannibalizes faster than a minority getting out of line with the message

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 14:20:09 2018 No.12290546 >>12290464 I don't really know what you mean. You're saying feminists are enabling mentally ill people?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:36:36 2018 No.12290940 >>12288254 said about literally everything that once contradicted normative social roles. Live in fear, it doesn't make you any better than anyone else.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:37:44 2018 No.12290949 >>12287900 /thread

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:45:49 2018 No.12291010

>>12290331
>not to such a large degree
They do though. Previously happy people become suicidal, previously intelligent people suffer dementia or alzheimers. We don't then claim their depression or alzheimers is an innate part of their being and was always there. Why should it be different when someone develops dysphoria?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:48:54 2018 No.12291037 >>12290285 > Muh everything is plastic Shut up you drug addled twat

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:49:38 2018 No.12291042

They won't even need an explanation with the future generation of kids. Gender dysphoria will be injected into them like religion. They will learn to hate themselves and mutilate their genitals so that they won't be able to reproduce. LGBT rights are part of the grand scheme for white genocide.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:50:19 2018 No.12291048 Transhumanism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:59:42 2018 No.12291111 >>12291037 >I was born complete with my memories, personality and all my sexual fetishes This I how stupid you sound

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:02:29 2018 No.12291126

>>12291010
>We don't then claim their depression or alzheimers is an innate part of their being and was always there.
Actually we do. Alzheimer's is largely genetic. Clinical depression and severe depressive disorders are also believed to have a substantial genetic component.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:05:56 2018 No.12291144

god, this thread is filled with nothing but idiots. the philosophy of transgenderism is they want to change themselves so they do it. you morons can't explain the causality of transgenderism when you don't even understand simplistic stuff like the simple fucking concept of people expressing themselves within this world.

are you an incel? do you want to change that?
are you a manlet? do you want to change that?
are you ugly? do you want to change that?
are you a brain dead loser unaware of reality? do you want to change that?
are you a monkey getting burned by fire trying to start civilization? do you want to change that
are you a human walking who wants to soar in the sky? do you want to change that

they want to change themselves and how they're manifest in the world so they fucking do it. your stupid attempts at talking about causality are always going to be fruitless because that's way beyond anything your brain can comprehend in a single thought.

them wanting to change their body and gender is a good enough reason for them to do it. it's their "pursuit of happiness" and whether it's good or bad isn't for you to decide you fucking imbeciles. it could be bad but so what? how many people are failing at life constantly anyway?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:12:57 2018 No.12291191

>>12291126
Don't be disingenuous. We don't claim someone with alzheimers has had alzheimers their entire life. We treat it as something that has come on recently, same as depression. There was a point where they didn't have depression or alzheimers, regardless of their genetics. Dysphoria is no different.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:20:23 2018 No.12291223

>>12289392
Sure, but if you analyse the morphemes in the word it's more along the lines of what I said.

>>12290492
Transgenders are marginalised in society and we don't really understand with any great psychological precision what they are experiencing. It's therefore not surprising when transgenders align themselves with an extremely loud, visible group saying there's nothing wrong with them, and that it is the rest of the world which must change to accommodate them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:31:11 2018 No.12291269 >>12287900 >50% suicide rates >'genitals' that look like botched wounds >"totally not a mental illness though"

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/lit/ - Literature