/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.1228172]

Why does shit like this get taught in high school, but not Ulysses?

[Anonymous No.1228178]

Because highschoolers can barely comprehend Archie comics.

[Anonymous No.1228186]

Hey guise can I be pretentious too?

[Anonymous No.1228188]

>GUYS
>SIN IS BAD
>OKAY GUYS?
>LIKE
>DON'T CHEAT ON YOUR HUSBAND
>AND LIKE
>CONFESS YOUR SINS
>OKAY GUYS?

[Anonymous No.1228194]

I'm guessing OP is American.

Was James Joyce and American? Nope.

Don't think we'd be caught dead reading that Hawthorne shit in Europe.

[Anonymous No.1228208]

>>1228194

Of course. I'm asking why high schools in my country choose to make children study this as a "difficult" text as opposed to James Joyce's Ulysses.

[Anonymous No.1228212]

Who is James Joyce? wtf am i reading

[Anonymous No.1228216]

>>1228208
Because the American school system is broken and the children who attend them are borderline retarded (by no fault of their own, usually).

That, and you will be expected by the system to devour shitty American lit at every turn, despite the fact that it is largely irrelevant on a global scale.

[Anonymous No.1228219]

>>1228194
>implying American schools don't teach about foreign authors
>implying even a college student from any country can comprehend Ulysses
I was taught about Finnegans Wake in high school though.

[Anonymous No.1228222]

>>1228208
Same reason not everybody is required to take AP classes or go the IB route. A lot of people aren't that smart, and a lot of people don't want to take that much effort.

The Scarlet Letter is straightforward enough that it can be hammered through the skulls of high school students IQ 80 and up so it and books like it are taught in required classes; more advanced work is available in optional classes.

[Anonymous No.1228228]

>>1228219
What school did you go to? My High School taught almost exclusively American authors, and only offered British Literature as a AP course for seniors.

Fucking hate this country

[Anonymous No.1228230]

>>1228222
But I've seen this in my AP Lit class, along with something by Toni Morrison.

[Anonymous No.1228233]

>>1228208
I don't think anyone outside of high school considers The Scarlet Letter a difficult text. Also they don't teach Ulysses in high school for the same reason they don't teach molecular engineering, it requires too much experience, background knowledge, time, and skill. In fact even asking that question suggests that you either haven't read or have failed to grasp Ulysses and comes across as kind of pretentious.

[Anonymous No.1228236]

edit, replace that last "you" with OP in case you aren't the OP.

[Anonymous No.1228237]

>>1228228
Californian schools tend to actually try, especially small ones that don't have 6000 students or whatever the morons in LA do.

[Anonymous No.1228241]

I went to a small, private christian (baptist) school for one year (9th grade). The English course was harder than my 12th year in public high school, in both book selection and topics taught.

[Anonymous No.1228242]

>>1228233

I haven't finished it but I enjoy it so far. I don't even want to sound pretentious, but I haven't read anything as interesting as Ulysses before. Although, I had no clue it took place in the span of one day before I read the Wikipedia article.

[Anonymous No.1228252]

I know you're trolling, but there are actually people who believe this, so let's play.

Reading is supposed to be an enjoyable experience. It's something you do for fun, like watching a movie, reading a comic book or playing a game. The thing is that reading is not something that you automatically know. You improve from experience and learn how to meet, understand and comprehend a text, no matter the medium. Since many kids today don't read in their spare time, you have to work with texts they can master and find interest in. By making reading a chore, you kill the enjoyment of it.

Some classics work, depending on the class, and some YA literature work, depending on the class. The very concept of teaching "difficult" books is stupid from a pedagogical standpoint; what's important is the enjoyment and knowledge you gain from a text.

I am so glad my country doesn't have a required reading list I'll be forced to teach.

[Anonymous No.1228255]

>>1228242
eh, i didn't mean to come across as a jerk. it's just that it requires more from the reader than what you're likely to get from the average highschool student. glad you're branching out, if you haven't checked out Portrait of the Artist as Young Man you should def. do so.

[Anonymous No.1228263]

Ulysses would be a terrible book to read in class. Its genius is its flow and to break it up would be unbearable.

[Anonymous No.1228264]

>>1228216

I went to High School in USA and took AP English my senior year. We read Oedipus Rex, Crime and Punishment, and even James Joyce (A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man). American schools teach literature from other countries.

[Anonymous No.1228276]

>>1228264
>AP English
>senior year

Wow, you Americans really don't give much credit to the capacity of high schoolers to be intelligent.

[Anonymous No.1228279]

>>1228276
What are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.1228294]

>>1228172
Because the teachers are merciful.

>>1228216
The American school system is fine. It ranks with about the average of the EU, the better states rank better than pretty much any EU country.

>That, and you will be expected by the system to devour shitty American lit at every turn, despite the fact that it is largely irrelevant on a global scale.

Steinbeck and Hemingway? Irrelevant on a global scale? Nigger be trolling now, also more than half the lit I read in high school wasn't American.

>>1228228
You kidding? Every school you have to read Chaucer, Shakespeare, Orwell, Dickens and Huxley.

[Anonymous No.1228296]

>>1228276

public school in america is a joke. even at the AP level. if you want at good education you have to go to a private school. see:

>>1228241

[Anonymous No.1228304]

>>1228294

>You kidding? Every school you have to read Chaucer, Shakespeare, Orwell, Dickens and Huxley.

in my senior year of public high school we only read extracts from chaucer and macbeth. we also did rime of the ancient mariner and the first part of beowulf.

however, we did 0 textual analysis, which is a big problem with american public school.

[Anonymous No.1228307]

>>1228304
Your school maybe.

[Anonymous No.1228308]

Irishfag here, we read Ulysses in Primary School, Finnegans Wake in Secondary. All of us.
Problem?

[Anonymous No.1228310]

>>1228308
>read
>Finnegans Wake
I'm calling bullshit right now.

[Anonymous No.1228312]

People are retarded, society is retarded. Accept it, become indifferent to it, and get on with your own life.

[Anonymous No.1228321]

>>1228307

you mean the textual analysis part? perhaps. is close reading a part of the public school curriculum elsewhere in the nation?

[Anonymous No.1228322]

>>1228310

[Anonymous No.1228323]

Because Ulysses is bad.

[Anonymous No.1228324]

It makes no sense to give fine wine to people who are used to only the cheapest stuff. Ease them in gently and challenge them if they ask to be challenged (i.e. choose english at higher levels).

[OUTRAGEOUS No.1228330]

OP is troll or doesn't know shit. Whatever. Scarlet Letter is a good novel for teens. It's a good novel for teaching theme and Romanticism in general. I've tried teaching certain novels that I read in college that just don't interest most teens because it doesn't speak to them in the least.

[Anonymous No.1228331]

People have been moaning that the secondary education system in the United States is broken since Sputnik. Yet between the launch of Sputnik and now America has witnessed unparalleled growth and prosperity. USA continues to lead in innovation, research, and developing new technologies despite our "broken" education system.

[Anonymous No.1228333]

>>1228308
Because you are Irish, nice scaring kids away from reading.

[Anonymous No.1228335]

>Start with this.
>Do nothing else.
>You have transcended.

[Anonymous No.1228337]

What I want to know is why 1/4 of the books we read or the topics we cover in History had to do with slavery and forcing white guilt. I'm not even white and they made me feel guilty as a kid for it. Christ, America fought a whole war with itself and fought each other for years to give rights to African-Americans, what more could we have possibly done to stop all this nonsense and get back to learning something, really anything at all that was a tiny bit important?
And Things Fall Apart sucked.

[Anonymous No.1228341]

>>1228337

because it's a huge part of our history and totally still relevant.

[Anonymous No.1228343]

>>1228331

we're talking about the humanities

and i won't mention the huge scientific advantage that we have just through being a superpower. we can brain drain other nations.

[Anonymous No.1228354]

>>1228337
>And Things Fall Apart sucked.

Take that back!

[Anonymous No.1228357]

>>1228341
No, the era may be relevant, but not all the forcing of guilt on white people. It forms an environment where whites hate themselves and make black people feel more self-important. And they already have gigantic egos. Equality has never existed here because when the subject is taught in schools it's full of biased viewpoints.

[Anonymous No.1228370]

>>1228337

Because America is still racist. Europe is less subtle about it, and the middle east and Israel even less so.

There's still a lot to learn from studying the history of slavery in the US, especially when you temper it with a study of American anti-semitic sentiment (which isn't really done often enough). You obviously didn't pick up on any of it.

[Anonymous No.1228380]

Good luck getting a populace of high school students to read a 1,000-page novel.

[Anonymous No.1228397]

Seriously though, you're all pretentious hipsters and should kill yourselves immediately.

[Anonymous No.1228400]

>>1228397
The 'HERP PRETENSHUS HIPSTERS' crowd is actually more annoying that hipsters themselves.

[Anonymous No.1228403]

>>1228397
Even those of us who think we aren't hipsters are hipsters, because one of the defining traits of hipsterdom is vehemently denying that you are a hipster.

[None !WvWWh.l.CE No.1228410]

>>1228400
shame only one of them exists.

[Anonymous No.1228412]

Why does bad fiction like this get taught in high school, but not Infinite Jest?

[Anonymous No.1228419]

>>1228337
Agreed, though their indoctrination backfired on me.I hate niggers and jews with the burning fury of a thousand suns.

[Anonymous No.1228423]

>>1228412

Because Jews ruin everything. It says so right in Ulysses.

[OUTRAGEOUS No.1228589]

>>1228412
I can say first hand that the Holocaust is stuffed down the students' throats where I teach. It's just about the only historical event that they seem to understand... I'll ask about something historical that happened around the time a novel was written and eventually someone ends up mentioning Hitler and everyone chimes in like fucking experts. Ugh.

[Anonymous No.1228593]

Because your average 14-18 year old would shit himself and drop out if he had to read Ulysses.

It's a balance between good literature, and accessibility. They're very, very terrible at finding that balance, but hey, they try.

[Anonymous No.1228597]

>>1228410
Spoken like a true hipster.

[Anonymous No.1228614]

What I read in high school:
To Kill a Mockingbird
1984
There Are No Children Here
In Cold Blood
Into the Wild
The Great Gatsby
The Catcher in the Rye
Brave New World
The Inferno
Othello

All short.

[Anonymous No.1228646]

My high school didn't offer AP Lit, instead it had I took a course that followed the curriculum of the local community college and that gave me college credit (without having to take the AP exam). We read a bunch of stuff like A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man and things I can't even remember, and we did an in depth textual analysis on everything we read. It was pretty sweet, the teacher that taught it was one of the better ones in the school, and I remember learning a lot from it.

My school was bitching, until it switched to IB the year I graduated. It had the classes from the community college, classes from Syracuse University (I took econ/government/psych/soc/calc/bio that way), as well as having normal AP classes. After it went IB, you either had to be IB or nothing. My friends in the grade under me got screwed out of some awesome classes - some of the teachers refused to teach IB and after they dropped the ACE/SUPA/AP classes, they went back to teaching just normal stuff.

[Anonymous No.1228665]

>>1228589
Its sad that they don't realize the holohoax is a myth with absolutely zero evidence to back it up(unless you count "eyewitnesses" with stories(and motives) that are questionable at best).

[op No.1228783]

cause the scarlet letter is american

[op No.1228785]

>>1228783
wait what am i talking about i read ulysses in high school

[Anonymous No.1228804]

>>1228783

Ulysses is American. Henry James is considered an American writer. Anyway, most people in High School can't handle Henry James. The Scarlet Letter is great because it's written in the regular novel format, not stream of conscience. This means most HS students can handle it. It also introduces them to the basics of the American novel, which is a mixture of Romance and Novel.

duude this is besides the point, but i just tuned in to euronews and its soooo intense

[Anonymous No.1228881]

>>1228804
>Implying Henry James wrote Ulysses.

[Anonymous No.1228892]

>>1228804
>Ulysses is American. Henry James is considered an American writer.

0/10.

Anyway, here is what I read in high school. Amerifag from Texas btw.

Animal Farm
The Picture of Dorian Grey
Of Mice and Men
The Pearl
Chaucer
Shakespeare
Beowulf
The Odyssey
Harry Potter, Sorcerers Stone
Old Man and the Sea
Robert Frost poetry
Edgar Allen Poe Stories


That's what I can remember...

[Anonymous No.1228893]

Non-American works I read in my American high school:
The Odyssey
Oedipus Rex
The Count of Monte Cristo
Romeo and Juliet
Tale of Two Cities
Julius Caesar
Brave New World
Macbeth
Crime and Punishment
The Metamorphosis
The Stranger
Hamlet

I'd say that's a healthy amount.

[Anonymous No.1228898]

>>1228893
I forgot Animal Farm

[The Sound and the Fury !!KlYr/MIPjaz No.1228905]

>>1228804
(Henry) James Joyce is American?

hahahaha

[Anonymous No.1228915]

>>1228614

I'll follow up on this point. Ulysses is impossible to cover in any high school class, regardless of whether it's regular, AP, IB, etc. Why is this even a discussion? Even if a HS class DID cover it, it would be pointless. It's too dense, and high schoolers have too many other topics to cover.

A HS English curriculum would have to sacrifice too much to fit this shit in (by shit I mean Ulysses). Not that I have anything against Joyce, but are kids in the 15-17 year range going to get anything out of it?

Fuck no. Let them read Dante, Hawthorne, Shakespeare, whatever. Anything that can be covered in a week or two. Joyce can come at the college level when they can concentrate on it.

Some c/lit/s must have forgotten what HS was like. Ulysses wouldn't have done anything except discourage reading.

[Anonymous No.1228930]

>>1228665
Y'know, I'd like to know more about the whole holohoax deal. I find it pretty hard to believe that the entire thing was faked, maybe blown out of proportion but never happened? Nah.
But I'm open to new ideas, so I'd like to know what evidence the whole holohoax argument has. Because to be honest, everytime I see it brought up it seems like a troll.

Oh and don't give me that zero evidence bullcrap because they have enough evidence, you're saying that evidence is fake, so give me proof or why you'd think that.

[Anonymous No.1228943]

>>1228930

It is a troll. Saw the same shit on /b/.

[Anonymous No.1228945]

>>1228337
Yeah, we had to read a shitload of stuff about slavery through the years. Like, more than any other topic. I always hear people say it was all mostly holocaust things but I guess where I lived they decided to focus on slavery more. Not sure why, I went to school in California so it's not like there was that much slavery history in my area, though I think we did spend more time on the Gold Rush back in 6th or 5th grade than other states might've.
But shit man, so much slavery. It wasn't THAT big a part of American history, I never even learned about the Vietnam or Gulf War until 11th or 12th grade, in school I mean, I of course learned a lot about Vietnam from the many films. Not so much on the Gulf War, still pretty iffy on it.

I dunno, I think it's silly that they are still trying to make up for all the slavery, I never even had a clear view on it because we only focused on American slavery. I'm pretty sure Mexico abolished slavery earlier than America because I think Americans wanted to (and did) bring slaves into Texas and that was one of the reasons why Texans ended up rebelling, but I might be wrong on that. But that's all I know about anyone else's policies on it. I mean, maybe it would be a bigger deal if the rest of the civilized world had abolished it except for America. Or maybe Americans started the trend. Shit, I don't even fucking know.

Seriously, how do they expect you to get an idea of the effects of slavery without showing how the rest of the world treated it? They barely even talk about the effects it had on Africa. They only really taught anything about Africa when they were trying to shove more guilt down our throats for imperialism.

I always hear about how bad America's education system is, so I'm wondering, are other country's education so focused on being socially correct and making up for the past? I mean, if Britain had America's education system, then they'd spend 80% of their history curriculum on imperialism.

[Anonymous No.1228948]

I'm from New jersey, and my 11th grade course was English literature.

[Anonymous No.1228954]

>>1228943
I assumed so but is all the holohoax stuff just a crazy conspiracy? I mean, I don't find it hard to believe that some numbers and facts were blown up a bit so how much of it is true?
Also, is that picture true, or just another troll?

[Anonymous No.1228964]

I live in Canada and I think we never did any Canadian novels. My AP teacher hated Atwood.

[Anonymous No.1228973]

>>1228172
Because it's not shit, and whatever shallow reading you give to a particular work in high school does not equate to an understanding of the work's literary worth.

[Anonymous No.1228974]

>>1228954

If you believe anything you read on 4chan, you shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

I can tell you that for a fact.

[Anonymous No.1228976]

>>1228974
Should I believe that?

[Anonymous No.1228985]

>>1228976

No.

[Anonymous No.1228990]

>>1228954
The picture is true, as is this one.They have no physical evidence and no legit documents.The Germans are famous for keeping immaculate records, and yet there are no documents of a holohoax ever occurring.Nobody seems to "remember" what happens, as holohoax horror stories often vary vastly between individual jews.Their "evidence" consists entirely of "eyewitness" accounts and "confessions" from alleged "Nazi war criminals" whose confessions were extracted under brutal torture.

So no, it never happened.You know those pictures you see of "nazi atrocities"? Most of them aren't even jews; and the ones that died in the camps died of typhus and starvation, due to a total lack of supplies towards the wars end(when the allies were fire bombing german cities, bombing german supply trucks, so they couldn't get any supplies to the camps.The germans eventually fled the camps and the prisoners were left to fend for themselves).

[Anonymous No.1229007]

>>1228990

I hope this is copypasta. Otherwise this is a sad way to troll. Seriously though, talk about a recent conspiracy or GTFO.

[Anonymous No.1229011]

>>1228990
SO THE JEWS JUST, DISAPPEARED WITH THEIR JEW MAGIC?

[Anonymous No.1229016]

>>1229011
There were never 6 million jews in germany in the first place.

[Anonymous No.1229018]

>>1228990
>So no, it never happened.You know those pictures you see of "nazi atrocities"? Most of them aren't even jews; and the ones that died in the camps died of typhus and starvation, due to a total lack of supplies towards the wars end(when the allies were fire bombing german cities, bombing german supply trucks, so they couldn't get any supplies to the camps.The germans eventually fled the camps and the prisoners were left to fend for themselves).

A lot of this is actually true! The majority of the victims of the Holocaust weren't Jews. By the most traditional accounts, 6 million were jews, 6 million non-Jews; an authority I respect cites the number as 6 million Jews and 14 million non-Jews. It's also true that many of the deaths resulted from starvation, disease, and neglect, not from intentional murder.

With that said, the concentrations camps were, assuredly, death camps. Those killed were not always killed by the hand of the Germans; sometimes it was neglect that killed them. But the whole purpose of the camps was to detain people, and to deal with them. The whole thing is entirely consistent with Nazi ideology. And there's simply too much evidence, from too many witnesses to dismiss the entire thing as a hoax.

And the reason that many places outlaw revisionist history regarding the Holocaust (a decision that I deeply disagree with, by the way) is because a desire to downplay or forget about the Holocaust is nearly always associated with certain other political beliefs - for example, a belief in a Jewish media and financial cabal, a desire to rehabilitate the Nazis, etc. For all intents and purposes, Holocaust denial is pretty equivalent to neo-Nazism.

[Anonymous No.1229037]

>>1229018
>By the most traditional accounts, 6 million were jews, 6 million non-Jews; an authority I respect cites the number as 6 million Jews and 14 million non-Jews. It's also true that many of the deaths resulted from starvation, disease, and neglect, not from intentional murder.

The six million figure was airdropped on little pamphlets during the war as a form of psychological warfare.

Their was never a "plan to mass murder jews".Not a single verified german document says to murder jews.There were no gas chambers, no furnaces, and no machine gunning down en masse."Death camps" is a complete lie.

Hell there was even an instance of a a German commander of a work camp that built a swimming poll for his prisoners who behaved themselves.

Secondly the "neglect" was understandable considering the entire country was in shambles at that point and they couldn't possibly send supplies.

All in the all the Germans treated the Jews almost exactly how we treated the japanese-americans during WW2(who we sent to concentration camps and treated them well).

[Anonymous No.1229045]

>>1229018
The Japanese would claim that American POW in WW2 weren't murdered either.

[Anonymous No.1229047]

[Anonymous No.1229053]

Six million six million six million...note the date on this newspaper.

[Anonymous No.1229068]

>>1229037

>built a swimming poll
>swimming poll
>poll

[Anonymous No.1229072]

>>1229037
>>1229037
yet you admit they were prisoners.... but they weren't sooo bad guise

[Anonymous No.1229078]

Virginia Beach fag here, high schoolers are taught both American and European literature here, in junior and senior year, respectively.

School ruins any novel. Nothing can suck all of the color and fun out of a great book like a high school curriculum.

[Anonymous No.1229082]

>>1229072
Of course there were prison camps.Every country in WW2 used prison camps.However, the holocaust didn't happen.It's a complete and utter lie.

[Anonymous No.1229088]

>>1229037
no, sorry. this is a monstrous thing you're claiming here. the united states concentration camps - certainly regrettable - were not part of a larger political movement in the way that the nazi concentration camps were. they were not part of a programmatic belief in the inferiority of Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, the mentally and physically unfit, etc. In some ways, that's the key fact here - the concentration camps fit in with the whole racist, totalitarian ideology espoused by the Nazis.

the Nazi concentration camps were not necessarily intended explicitly for killing - but they were a method of dealing with problematic minorities, racial and otherwise. they were full of abuse, outright neglect, terrible mistreatment, and casual murder. some of the neglect was due to the terrible conditions in germany - but frankly, it's pretty clear that it a lot of it really was intentional. Even given the difficulty of sending supplies towards the end of the war, the Germans did not care about giving humane rations to the inhabitants of the camps. Really, to anyone who's read any of the accounts of conditions within the camps, this is completely, completely monstrous. And that doesn't even mean Night - I would recommend Primo Levi's book If This Is A Man (published in the US as Survival in Auschwitz).

And the extent to which there was something 'planned' about the Nazi concentration camps is an open historical question, and I don't want to look up the evidence on that right now, so whatever.

[Anonymous No.1229091]

>>1229082
I trust your word
holocaust never happened
they just went to jail
sucks jews can't play monopoly right
oh wait
they should be owning at monopoly
since
you know they are jews
oh well
I concede

[Anonymous No.1229101]

>>1229088
>no, sorry. this is a monstrous thing you're claiming here. the united states concentration camps - certainly regrettable - were not part of a larger political movement in the way that the nazi concentration camps were. they were not part of a programmatic belief in the inferiority of Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, the mentally and physically unfit, etc. In some ways, that's the key fact here - the concentration camps fit in with the whole racist, totalitarian ideology espoused by the Nazis.

Wheres the proof? Don't bother posting an "eyewitness account" because I will dismiss it for the nonsense it is.

>the Nazi concentration camps were not necessarily intended explicitly for killing - but they were a method of dealing with problematic minorities, racial and otherwise. they were full of abuse, outright neglect, terrible mistreatment, and casual murder. some of the neglect was due to the terrible conditions in germany - but frankly, it's pretty clear that it a lot of it really was intentional. Even given the difficulty of sending supplies towards the end of the war, the Germans did not care about giving humane rations to the inhabitants of the camps. Really, to anyone who's read any of the accounts of conditions within the camps, this is completely, completely monstrous. And that doesn't even mean Night - I would recommend Primo Levi's book If This Is A Man (published in the US as Survival in Auschwitz).

Casual murder did not take place.The German army was highly disciplined and believed in honor; they would never have rounded by jews and gunned them down.Most of the neglect was not intentional.I don't think you realize how badly the war hurt the German economy.Soviet invaders razed crops to the ground and destroyed or stole large medicine stocks.Secondly I would caution against taking a Jews "eyewitness account" of his experience in a "death camp" as anything short of fiction.There is an agenda here.

[Anonymous No.1229104]

> And the extent to which there was something 'planned' about the Nazi concentration camps is an open historical question, and I don't want to look up the evidence on that right now, so whatever.

There was never anything planned, nor anything that took place.No prisoners were intentionally killed.None.The prisoners who died of neglect towards the wars end numbered in the hundreds, possibly thousands.Not even close to the number used for propaganda purposes(six million).

Yes the camps towards the wars end weren't pleasant, but that was a result of no supplies due to Allied atrocities committed against germany.

[Anonymous No.1229111]

>>1229101
Why wouldn't you accept eyewitness accounts? Seriously, what reason would you have to doubt that so many would lie so insanely for so long? Unless, of course, you're a rabid, delusional anti-Semite. Which you clearly are, like all Holocaust deniers. Fuck you.

Also, what the fuck do you mean, what proof do I have that the ideology of the Nazi party was racist? That was their whole bag. They believed in the supremacy of the Germanic peoples. My evidence is the whole program and beliefs and everything done by the Nazi regime in Germany.

Why the hell do you think that the Nazis rounded up the Jews? I mean, you do agree that they detained all the Jews and a huge number of Slavs, right? Why was that? And let me point out in advance - when America interned the Japanese, we were at least dealing with nationals of a country we were at war with. There was no Jewish empire that Germany was combating. They thought there was, because they were racist anti-semites - again, that was their whole fucking policy. But I'd be curious to hear you explain why the Germans rounded up the Jews, if the Nazis weren't racist.

[Anonymous No.1229115]

>>1229111

[Anonymous No.1229116]

>>1229104
>Yes the camps towards the wars end weren't pleasant, but that was a result of no supplies due to Allied atrocities committed against germany.

Fuck you and die.

I'm done arguing with you, you anti-Semite Neo-Nazi. There is evil that men do, and you're the one out there apologizing for it. There's no fucking point arguing with you, since you'll just dismiss anything I say as "THE INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY TO DEFAME THE GERMANS" or whatever. Go die in a fucking fire, you horrible little shit.

[Anonymous No.1229119]

>>1228172

>Why does shit like this get taught in high school, but not Ulysses?

more female than male english teachers for some reason

[Anonymous No.1229121]

>>1229111
>Why wouldn't you accept eyewitness accounts? Seriously, what reason would you have to doubt that so many would lie so insanely for so long? Unless, of course, you're a rabid, delusional anti-Semite. Which you clearly are, like all Holocaust deniers. Fuck you.

Because they have zero physical evidence, zero documents, and the "eyewitness accounts" cannot be scientifically proven, in addition to the accounts varying wildly, ranging from the classic "human lampshade" "human soap" storyline, to "burning/gassing 6 million jews" which is scientifically impossible as well as extremely impossible considering Germany was at war and couldn't possibly spare the manpower nor the resources.

Oh, and nice ad hominem by the way, you have proved your argument invalid.

When did I say the Germans LIKED jews? They didn't like them, and they had multiple reasons not to.I'm disputing the legitimacy of a holocaust.Stop trying to change the subject.

[Anonymous No.1229126]

>and they had multiple reasons not to

at least we can agree on one thing
you suck the meaty cock I can read it in your post

[Anonymous No.1229127]

>>1229116
Zero evidence, ad hominem, use of buzzwords.Posts dubious "eye witness accounts" as "proof".No you aren't a high school teacher.You are an unemployed liberal apologist.

[Anonymous No.1229136]

>>1229121
I'm not arguing that the Germans literally gas chamber'd 6 million Jews. I'm saying that 6 million Jews died, although their deaths were mostly from neglect and abuse. I think that neglect was intentional and the result of a programmatic belief on the part of the Germans in the complete inferiority of other races. I think that the concentration camps really were an attempt by the Germans to deal with the problem presented by those minorities.

The camps were despicable institutions dedicated to the destruction of Jews and others as human beings through institutional neglect and mistreatment. And my evidence for that largely comes from eyewitness accounts, and from what we know about the structure of the Nazi regime. Eyewitness accounts speak eloquently about the unbelievably terrible conditions in the camps, the abuse, and the way that they completely and intentionally dehumanized their inhabitants. Knowledge of Nazi ideology and government shows that Nazis had the motivation, and that it isn't insane to believe that they would have done this. It seems pretty clear to me that the camps were terrible beyond all humanity, beyond anything which can be rationalized by "well conditions were pretty bad guys!" They were evil.

But a lot of the wilder claims are untrue. No, there was not a literal straight-up murdering of 12 million people. It was a lot more subtle than that. No, a lot of the wilder atrocity stories are untrue. But the fact of the matter is that the camps really were evil. I have to ask: why are you so intellectually committed to defending the Nazis and concentration camps?

[Anonymous No.1229140]

>>1229121
Oh, also, you're an anti-Semite moron.

>>1229127
what i never said i was a high school teacher

and there is a point at which i draw the line, at which i really do get mad. that point is when you, in defense of evil, claim that the nazis only neglected the jews because of allied atrocities. were allied actions in the war entirely moral, entirely defensible? no. but they were at least pursued with legitimate war aims in mind for the most part, unlike the uneconomical, nonsensical effort to dehumanize and eliminate racial minorities for ideological reasons, pure fucking evil.

[Anonymous No.1229144]

>>1229136
Six million six million is that all you ever say? Six million jews did not die.Hundreds, possibly thousands died from neglect at the wars end.None of it was intentional.Secondly "eye witness accounts" can never be trusted especially when there's a jewish agenda at work; eye witness accounts cannot be proven.You can't claim 2+2=7 because multiple "eye witnesses" said it does.This is exactly the same.

[Anonymous No.1229149]

How about we just ban the bigot for being /lit/ unrelated?

[Anonymous No.1229151]

>>1229140
Ad hominem and use of buzzwords.Opinion invalid.Your post reads like a history channel holocaust documentary.
>>1229149
So you want to silence those whose views are not beneficial to you? Typical Jewish brainwashing.

[Anonymous No.1229160]

>>1229144
Well, you see, because I am a reasonable, unbigoted human being, I tend to take the eyewitness accounts of Jews seriously and think that their was more than ordinary neglect going on in the concentration camps. I don't automatically suspect them of lying, because I think they're human beings, because I'm not a horrible anti-Semite. That's not where the numbers come from. I haven't done the deep, detailed historical research on the numbers. The numbers comes from estimates from academics who I deeply trust, who estimate that 4-6 million Jews and 6-14 million non-Jews died due to the Germans during the war, whether in the camps or in ghettos or what have you. And those numbers make sense to me given the statements of the eyewitnesses and what we know of Nazi ideology.

What Jewish agenda should lead us to believe Jews are terrible, evil rats who can't be trusted?

[Anonymous No.1229161]

>>1229151

Btw, why is /new/ raiding us?

[Anonymous No.1229165]

>Thread about Scarlet Letter
>Derailed in Holocaust debate

ADD much, /lit/?

[Anonymous No.1229166]

Godwin's law at it's finest here... stop feeding the troll, people.

Anyway. Personally, I've always found stream-of-consciousness freaking annoying for the same reason I find people who talk about every minute detail of their lives IRL annoying. I had to read Portrait of the Artist for a class in college, and I gave up about halfway through. One of about three books I've ever outright given up on. Almost gave up on Mrs. Dalloway in high school for the same reasons, but that was shorter, so I forced myself through it. Can someone explain why they enjoy stream-of-consciousness lit? Does anyone actually feel like their thought process works that way?

And sure, Scarlet Letter is a little simplistic by fine literature's standards, but it has more merit than, say, Catcher in the Rye. I have no idea how English teachers justify that one as anything other than elaborate satire.

[Anonymous No.1229169]

My English class assigned Ulysses, maybe the better question is why did you go to a shit school?

[Anonymous No.1229175]

>>1229160
So you're saying you accept anything jews will say unquestionably, even if they don't have proof? Failure of the education system at its finest, ladies and gentlemen.

Keep throwing around buzzwords like "bigot" "anti-semite" and "nazi" though, makes your argument all the more invalid.

[Anonymous No.1229181]

>>1229175
There's a good troll. Try to pull people back in.

I like that anti-semite, bigot, and nazi are buzzwords though. If you weren't a troll, it would be a good example of how retarded you are.

[Anonymous No.1229186]

>>1229181
Use of Ad hominem.You have proved how uneducated you are.

[Anonymous No.1229251]

Hey, I'm the one who originally asked about the whole holohoax deal.
You're trolling, an elaborate troll, but it was good nonetheless.
The other guy who you were arguing with, he's stupid. Not just because he got trolled but because he thinks anyone who doesn't believe the Nazis killed 6 million jews is somebody who hates Jewish people. Also because he tried to samefag and then censor the holohoax guy by asking for a ban, ironically.

Though I it's still silly to think that so many people organized together to falsify all the eyewitness accounts. My final conclusion is that it definitely did happen but nearly the scale people want you to think.

I don't even know why anyone cares how many you think died, Jews are fine and happy today (inb4 economy joke) get over the past that didn't even happen to you.