books to understand the mind of muslim extremists? go to b if you want to joke about it, im genuinely interested.

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Anonymous Sun Dec 23 19:51:26 2018 No.12276304 [Reply] [Original]

books to understand the mind of muslim extremists?

go to b if you want to joke about it, im genuinely interested.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 20:10:14 2018 No.12276394 >>12276304 The History of Jihad by Robert Spencer

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 20:12:03 2018 No.12276401 >>12276304 my diary desu

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 20:13:16 2018 No.12276404 >>12276304 Unironically a book called The True Believer. It explains the mindset of all fanatics. This is what you’re looking for.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 20:13:43 2018 No.12276407 Mein Kampf

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 20:18:30 2018 No.12276425 >>12276304 always been a great fan of culture, love muslims!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 20:21:05 2018 No.12276436 >>12276304 Sayyid Qutb is the ideological grandfather of modern islamic radicals.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 20:21:54 2018 No.12276439 Sayyid Qutb

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:04:30 2018 No.12276646

Theres a great book called "the al qaeda reader" which contains translations of various public statements made by al qaeda in defense of their actions and strategies.

I think its two separate matters though: what motivates the foot soldier or suicide bomber is different than what forms the ideology. I recall hearing somewhere that many of the suicide bombers are mentally retarded. Similarly, a desire to avenge ones murdered father might supply a motivation to join ISIS for example.

Al qaeda is more sophisticated than people in the west realize. They have a distinct theological position and an unusual sense of jihad which permits them to wage war on government targets because they consider it a kind of blasphemy that mere mortals rule the secular governments. Their just war theory depends on a weird interpretation of Ibn Tammiyah found in qutbs works. Qutb was trying to figure out how to justify killing other muslims in holy war. The terrorists see themselves inhabiting an era of jahillayah, they believe the modern world is so decadent that it can only be compared to preislamic times.

Historically its hard to see the rise of modern jihadi terrorists as anything other than a reaction to collonialism, which involves the total distuption of existing religious norms. All of this is forbidden knowledge in america because eventually one gets a sense of how devastating the modern west has been in obliterating traditional social orders. I think one can go anout it soberly and seriously without losing sight of the fact that murdering children is evil. That includes Iraqi children. Oddly enough, the US views iraqi children like al qaeda views 911 victims: regrettable collateral damage produced as a byproduct of just warfare.

A proper inquiry in media is practically censored.

Tldr, the terrorists have a point, and there is quite a bit invested in your not hearing it.

Theres a little book called "Islam fundamentalism and the betrayel of tradition" edited by SH Nasr which does a very good job situating this discussion in its proper context and illustrating how terrorism is the flip side of a secular modernity broadcasted and expanded through material colonialism.

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:08:25 2018 No.12276665
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Read the books under "jihad violence and the clash of universalisms" and youll learn quite a bit on the subject.

Its a very, very complicated subject. You will have to read thousands of pages to get a proper sense of it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:08:33 2018 No.12276666 Refuting ISIS by Muhammad al Yaqoubi

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:11:02 2018 No.12276682

the truth is they were just horny rejects who were bitter that the pretty white women came to their country and didn't want to fuck them.
So basically any book about the corrupting force of sexuality on cultures and the insensitivity of certain forms of tourism.

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:11:19 2018 No.12276686

>>12276304
these are isolated incidents and in no way reflect the muslim community as a whole, we have been saying that for 50 years, when will you people listen? hundreds of incidents every year scattered across the whole world don't add up to a trend

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:27:45 2018 No.12276759 >>12276646 Yeah, the victims pf 9/11 were collateral damage, despite being the targets. I teresting post, othr than that.

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:38:32 2018 No.12276836

>>12276759
There was a series of public debates between al qaeda and certain saudi clerics over their use of violence. ("The al qaeda reader" makes these available in english, and its my source for the info in this post). Al qaeda actually considers killing civilians wantonly to be unjust. They selected the pentagon and WTC as targets because they consider them symbols of the American order (we can guess the third target on 911 was a government building, thus completing the economic, military and governmental symbolic trio).

This was one of the more interesting facts I learned researching this. You can disagree with the logic (I do) but they themselves used this argument to justify the targets they selected. This is why ISIS is a hundred times worse- they dont even have a commitment to just war on paper. Any action that serves the caliphates establishment/expandion is permitted-- torture, bombing schools, killing women and children, all of this is fair game for ISIS. Not so for al qaeda. Naturally much of that gets lost in the actual activity of war.

911 was horrible, it should sicken people. Iraq was worse. More bodies. More innocent blood shed.

America is washed in blood, it thrives on it and requires it. Thats the great lie hidden beneath its nationalism. But I digress.

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:38:40 2018 No.12276837

>>12276646
>Their just war theory depends on a weird interpretation of Ibn Tammiyah found in Qutb's works. Qutb was trying to figure out how to justify killing other muslims in holy war.
This is the key both to understanding their ideological position and justification for their methodology, and why they are outside of the orthodox in Islam.

Indeed it is a complex situation which requires a certain amount of knowledge and correct interpretation of both traditional Islamic doctrine and that wherein the terrorists differ.

My advice to OP is to get a good understanding and knowledge base of traditional/mainstream/orthodox Islamic doctrine and jurisprudence, compare the differences with what the terrorists hold, and investigate the works which the terrorists are citing as their inspiration/evidence. Look at all relevant interpretations and compare the manner in which they arrive at the differing interpretations. A couple of the main points of difference are: doctrinal takfir, and the permissability of killing non-combatants.

Regarding their recruitment methods, they actively target new converts to Islam and the less knowledgeable amongst the already Muslims. They will open their own sort of underground mosques (they won't announce them publicly or to any local authorities, like a secret mosque) and they will organise prayers there and invite their own scholars to speak to the gathered Muslims. Their trick is that they will turn the people away from the local mosque, basically get them isolated from the other Muslims and then start introducing their own ideas. They're actually very sophisticated in this approach.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:56:27 2018 No.12276926 Thanks for the recs in this thread. Yesterday I read a book called Religions of the World I found on the sidewalk. I was intrigued by the life of Mohammed and his encouragement of violence against unbelievers of Allah. Riveting stuff.

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 21:57:21 2018 No.12276934

>>12276686
It's the terminology used:

>Islamic Fundamentalism
should mean orthodox or traditional Islam but the propaganda makes it mean terrorist.

>Islamic Terrorism
Islam has very clearly defined rules of engagement in war. None of which include the killing of children and non-combatants.

>Jihad
does not mean "Holy War". It literally means struggle or striving for the sake of Allah. It can be war but it's much broader. Jihad can be any denial of temptation, or when you get up for the morning prayer and the water is cold when you're washing your face.

There's other examples, you get the point. Propaganda was needed to convince the soldiers to fight, and the populace to support that fight.
The war in Afghanistan, ostensibly because Osama bin Laden was being protected by the Taliban but if you look into the chain of events you will see that the Taliban offered to give Osama bin Laden up if the US could show them some evidence that he had organised or whatever the wtc attacks in 2001.
The Iraq invasion had nothing to do with terrorists. Both of those wars are/were against muslims, so the propaganda is to demonize/dehumanize the enemy and the language used (see above.) is the first step.
All this was going on and at the same time Bush was visiting a mosque and saying Muslims are cool and shit, this is to temper the rage so retards don't go try to burn down their closest mosque.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:00:27 2018 No.12276952 >>12276404 this is a good recommendation

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:04:11 2018 No.12276970

>>12276926
I dont want to get into it but please be careful about drawing conclusions on your own with just a bit of knowledge. There are mountains of writing on how to interpret the quran and the way it describes war. Its not as simple as "muh religion of peace" or "muh islam is violent."

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:14:35 2018 No.12277023 Murders don't only happen in the muslim world

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:15:36 2018 No.12277028 >>12276686 With that logic you might as well blame the human race entirely.

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:19:21 2018 No.12277042

>be arab
>be born
>your friends, family, siblings, peers, etc... all blown up repeatedly by big jets with american flags on them
>GEE I wonder why they are all willing to die trying to kill americans

The mentality is probably not far from the urge you get to kill an intruder in your own home attacking your children or some shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:23:47 2018 No.12277068 >>12277042 Yes... the evil americans are the only ones to set war on their soil...

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:42:45 2018 No.12277164 >>12276304 The Spirit of Terrorism

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:43:29 2018 No.12277167 is the guy on the left rene guenon's son?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:44:49 2018 No.12277178 >>12276304 when did /tv/ start to think it was welcome on other boards?

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:46:44 2018 No.12277191

>>12277023
>>12277028
>>12277042
apologists for terrorism, i used to fancy these notions myself until i realized a little taxpayer-funded law enforcement is the only thing keeping a pack of sweating, posturing alpha male jackoffs from tying me to a fence post and bludgeoning me to death, chaining me to the back of their pickup and dragging me down a few miles of asphalt until my head falls off, or these days lining me up with a group of undesirables and chopping our heads off one by one, discharging a few shotguns and rifles into our bodies at point-blank range, shackling our hands and feet and running over us with tanks, dropping stones on our heads so heavy it takes three men to lift them, burning us alive, strapping bombs to our bodies and having us run out into the desert before detonating them, blowing our bodies half, all the while filming it via drones which are then used to deliver our severed heads to others, yeah, terrorism can be really attractive and can engender a lot of righteous indignation and sympathy in people, just look at how many people sympathize with Nazis these days, and please, before you get into the whole, "Nazis persecuted Jews, Muslims are totally different," the propaganda used to fuel the hate of the Nazis was in no way different to the propaganda used to fuel the hate of Americans. "They are responsible for all these deaths, they have no souls, they are deceitful, concerned only with money," it's all the same rhetoric used as justification for savagery, >>12276934 forgot Islamofascism in his handy glossary of terms, reinterpret that one for me please

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:47:11 2018 No.12277196 >>12277042 Then their IQ is extremely low because they can't differentiate the people in power(Jews) from the citizens who have done nothing wrong and probably oppose the wars (((they))) got us into

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 22:48:34 2018 No.12277204 So what's going to happen to the murderers in Morocco? Do they still stone people to death over there?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 23:02:29 2018 No.12277280 >>12277191 Not all Muslims are terrorists

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 23:34:15 2018 No.12277434 >>12276304 Noticed that Mexicans kill people almost the way like those muslims. If you believe in a idea you need symbols to make it real

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 23:34:52 2018 No.12277440

>>12277191
>Islamofascism
a portmanteau for pseuds that understand neither Islam nor Fascism, both of which are mutually exclusive political systems, burden of proof being on whomever first coined the terminology please. Basically it combines Nazi with Terrorist to make superbadguy.

I get your sentiment, I really do. There's causality argument: that the terrorists only attack for some reason, if the reason didn't exist then the terrorists wouldn't have that reason and wouldn't attack. It is fair to say that your ordinary Muslim is more likely to become a terrorist and attack the US now than he was in 1990, or 1975, or 1775.
Islam hasn't changed, Islam is not the cause of terrorism. Most of the people fighting against ISIS are Muslims, and ISIS are quite clearly an enemy of Islam, this is confirmed by the overwhelming condemnation of ISIS amongst the contemporary scholars of Islam.

I hope you don't call me a terrorist apologist for this, but I also believe terrorism is a reaction to colonialism. Countries that become invaded and subjugated and have their innocent people killed by bombings are the catalyst for terrorism. People get mad when their aunty gets killed at her wedding by a drone strike, or their cousin is killed at the pharmaceutical factory where he works because it gets bombed because of bad intel. And they don't apologize or offer any compensation payment - there's blood money in accordance with sharia law - and hold themselves to a different standard of rules of engagement than they claim that their enemy must. They don't even declare war most of the time.

Terrorism in the context of Islam is a separate issue. Terrorism is a challenge for Islam as a religion and Muslims as a people to strive against and overcome.

I think the other problem is that the Muslim countries government are often allied with the US and this causes division amongst the people which leads to disparate group, isolation of individuals, and these people are the prey of the terrorist recruiting.

It is a complex issue taken all together, impossible to explain simply with a meme or soundbite.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 23:39:48 2018 No.12277469 >>12276304 Yes, it's called the "Koran".

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 23 23:42:39 2018 No.12277479 >>12277469 I'm a racoon reading the quran

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 23:52:06 2018 No.12277532

>>12277469
This would be a good place to start I would imagine.

As >>12276646 hinted at, the attacks on 9/11 weren't perpetrated because the brown people "hate our freedom". Unfortunately that seems to be the American common understanding and it's about as dumbed down as is possible.

Noam Chomsky has some interesting notes on the subject in terms of the U.S. being a terrorist state itself towards many middle eastern countries. While Christopher Hitchens points out the many inconvertible horrors of the religion itself.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Anonymous Sun Dec 23 23:58:34 2018 No.12277552

>>12277532
>christopher Hitchens
Arrogant beyond redemption or even comprehension
>truth lies in the middle
We stop thinking precisely when he see two convincing polarities and refuse to determine which one is true and which one is false

In any case you are looking for answers in the wrong place. Modern jihadist movements are not merely a result of American (or before that, European) activity. You have to look inside the Islamic world itself, a serious and difficult undertaking.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 00:10:58 2018 No.12277618

>>12277552
Okay. Substitute Sam Harris for Hitchens. Though I'm guessing your ad hominem is meant more for atheists in general.

>We stop thinking precisely when he see two convincing polarities and refuse to determine which one is true and which one is false

Interesting, but they aren't polarities.

>You have to look inside the Islamic world itself, a serious and difficult undertaking.
No shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 00:16:34 2018 No.12277653 >>12277618 >ad hominem >sam harris >greentext style argumentation Reported for underage

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 00:40:17 2018 No.12277792

>>12277191
when i hear people gripe about what "the system" does to people, prison labor is the new slavery, once a con always a con, take all your money, so on and so forth, and compare what the lawless do, flay you alive, behead you without anesthetic, tie you up, cut off your arms, then gut you, cut your heart out, disembowel, eviscerate you, saw your limbs off and beat you with them
>>12277440 "As early as 1933 an Indian progressive named Akhtar Husayn Raepuri denounced Muhammad Iqbal...as a "reactionary" and the idea of an independent Pakistan as "Islamic Fascism."
Cultural Transfers in Dispute: Representations in Asia, Europe and the Arab World since the Middle Ages

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 00:47:25 2018 No.12277824 File: 49 KB, 407x407, 1486513492773.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12277653

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 00:49:02 2018 No.12277830 >>12277792 Thanks anon, I'll chase up that book in reference to Islamic Fascism. I didn't know about Akhtar Husayn Raepuri.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 00:51:08 2018 No.12277837 >>12276836 America doesn't shed 1/1000th of the blood that it could. The American people in their righteous might have a just and steady hand.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 00:58:29 2018 No.12277871

>>12277532
>the attacks on 9/11 weren't perpetrated because the brown people "hate our freedom"
But they do hate your freedom and your way of life, anon.
Being from Russia, I can assure that average Russians (secular, relatively educated people) dislike the US not only for its foreign policy, but for being "the beacon of democracy", and, for example prompting gay marriage.
You can only imagine, how average 3rd-world Muslim despises your liberal culture.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 01:00:46 2018 No.12277882 love islam, most effective tool to deal with roasties.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 01:33:08 2018 No.12278002 >>12276304 Who are these guys? Did they build a rocket or build a super computer?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 01:37:38 2018 No.12278017 >>12277871 >for being "the beacon of democracy" Can you continue on this?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 02:00:41 2018 No.12278086 >>12278017 In short, people don't believe in liberal democracy and think that y'all are massive hypocritical/dumb faggots.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:05:25 2018 No.12278556

>>12277871
>"the beacon of democracy", and, for example prompting gay marriage.

I'm from South-Eastern Europe, and it's the same. They hate globe-police aspect but they are truly bothered by liberal values like gay and gender stuff. Fucking knuckledraggers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:14:12 2018 No.12278578 >>12277871 What is the reasoning behind "secular, relatively educated people" being against gay marriage? Im genuinely interested, I've never heard of any type of logical argument condemning gay marriage, most certainly not from a secular mindset.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:19:12 2018 No.12278593 larp as a muslim for a few weeks. paint yourself brown, live in your neighbor's house for a week, restrict your personal freedom, then pray a lot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:21:45 2018 No.12278599 >>12277042 In deed it is just to run over 11 year old Swedish girls inshallah!

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:27:28 2018 No.12278617
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I just don't like the leftist argumentation ITT. I would've more easily sympathize with an actual Muslim then with a bunch of humanists trying to explain or protect the behaviour of non-whites.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:51:11 2018 No.12278679

>>12276934
Imo Bush didn't want a war on Muslims because he's a weak globalist faggot. If he had any sense, he would have announced the closing of Americas borders to all Muslims (or everybody) with his microphone in the rubble. Now we have to get our asses grabbed everytime we go through the airport because it is politically incorrect to target the group of people most responsible for terrorism in the world (if you exclude the American gov't faggot).

>>12278578
Oh boy, where to start my friend! There is a heap of arguments that can be used to justify ending gay marriage, which do not rest upon religious views. Chief among them is the fact that homosexuals don't get "married"! If you check the statistics in America you'll notice that homosexual men are the most promiscuous group of people on the planet, and homosexual "marriage" is a joke when compared to the traditional monogamous relationships of heterosexuals. There are actually very few homosexual "marriages", and we have not seen a major rise (nowhere near as many as heterosexual couples) since legalization. The promiscuity of homosexuals is also a reason many of them transmit fatal diseases, so you can make the argument that one shouldn't legitimize these practices further by shrouding them in the sanctity of marriage. Then you have the definition of marriage. Our society, and I am speaking generally of the West, has a clearly defined view of marriage as a bond between families, when a woman and man are married and practice monogomy. Using social outliers and obscure tribes whose practices are different than ours to redefine marriage is not a good way to work things out, as things are relative, why should our traditional practices not be enforced, considering they are the most healthy social practices for our circumstances? Then you have Christianity, you want to hear a secular argument, but homosexual marriage has been a bludgeon against the enemies of liberalism and Christianity, it is a form of political humiliation, you can see this as irrelevant bakers are prosecuted for not baking cakes for homosexual "weddings". You'll notice that the homosexual "marriage" takes a back seat in the orgy bus, to their actual goal of humiliating a harmless Christian person. If you are interested in more secular arguments, visit MPCdot.com or respond to my post! Hopefully this post satisfies critera of "secular, relatively educated" criticism and does not demonstrate jaw dropping brutalism!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:55:27 2018 No.12278687 >>12278679 I'm not trying to be funny or insulting, but to any regular person you sound like you have been extremely sheltered and are completely out of your mind.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 04:57:38 2018 No.12278697 >>12278578 People really don't like faggots, anon, it's that simple. And they feel creeped out when govermental and cultural institutions of the powerful Western states start to promote faggotry as a virue.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:08:20 2018 No.12278723 >>12278687 Excuse me anon! But that is not the proper response to a well thought out post.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:09:19 2018 No.12278725 >>12276304 If you understand french, this one is really interesting. https://www.arteradio.com/son/61658673/un_faux_prophete

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:11:31 2018 No.12278732

>>12276646
>I recall hearing somewhere that many of the suicide bombers are mentally retarded.

yeah I've heard that a lot of them are dumb, impressionable teenage boys
unrelated but your comment made me think of it - i'm surprised it doesn't come up that much when discussing pedophile priests but as someone from a long line of large families (8+ children) it was always the retarded son (or otherwise slow, socially awkward, autistic etc.) that got sent away to the seminary, since they were too slow to do well in any other field including even manual labour which I reckon explains a lot of the touching

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:13:39 2018 No.12278735 >>12278723 If it was 'well thought out' the response would be much different. It honestly sounds like the ramblings of someone who hasnt't taken their meds for the last few days.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:14:52 2018 No.12278741

>>12278679
Ah, I see. I'm going to bed but I'll check back here tomorrow probably.

First off just because gay people don't get married, is in no way relevant to the argument. It's completely irrelevant. Totally beside the point. Makes no difference as it's an issue of principle. Whether 1 gets married or 1000000. How this is your chief concern is a fucking mystery to me.

>when compared to the traditional monogamous relationships of heterosexuals

The quality of the relationship is only as good as quality of the people in the relationship. In other words

The fatal diseases argument sounds like complete propaganda. No one dies from HIV in 1st world countries at least. I'd like to see some statistics on the subject (from websites that appear legitimate).

>has a clearly defined view of marriage as a bond between families, when a woman and man are married and practice monogomy. Using social outliers and obscure tribes whose practices are different than ours to redefine marriage is not a good way to work things out, as things are relative, why should our traditional practices not be enforced, considering they are the most healthy social practices for our circumstances?

I don't follow

>for not baking cakes for homosexual "weddings".
This was a highly publicized case that dealt with a couple who were purposely trying to find a cake shop to deny them for the very purpose of bringing the issue to the light. While that doesn't change the principle of it, it's worth mentioning. What if a cake shop denied service to a black couple? IMO the cake shop should not be forced to bake the cake, or be penalized for not baking it.
But I think this issue is a non-issue.

>You'll notice that the homosexual "marriage" takes a back seat in the orgy bus

I don't follow

You seem to be either pro-religion or uncomfortable with homosexuality but hey, live and let live.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:15:29 2018 No.12278743 >>12278735 Literally, not an argument. Are you homosexual?

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:22:01 2018 No.12278760

>>12278741
Yes, I am pro-Christianity (regardless of whether I believe in it), and am against same-sex, and other deviations from normal opposite sex, penis in vagina practices. However that does not cloud my judgement, a longer post with sources may be forthcoming.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:34:36 2018 No.12278790

>>12276686
Imagine actually being this retarded.
It you bothered to take a look at the statistics and polling data on Muslim countries you will be shocked.
>86% of Egyptian Muslims think the death penalty is the appropriate treatment for leaving the religion.
>89% of Pakistani Muslims think that stoning is the appropriate treatment for adultery (85% for Afganistan)
>58% of Tunisian Muslims believe Sharia should be applied to both Muslims and non-Muslims.

With 1.8 Billion Muslims globally, these are millions of people that subscribe to these ideas.
Even Moderate countries like Turkey have lower figures, for example 17% for death for apostasy which is still 13.6 Million people.
Saying there are just a few bad apples is to say you simply do have a clue what you are talking about.
I haven't even included statistics about homosexuals or women.

>http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:36:41 2018 No.12278794 >>12277042 So why are most Muslim deaths caused by other Muslims?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:44:46 2018 No.12278812 >>12277042 Bullshit. Islamic terror in the western world is just a tiny sub-genre. Shia vs. Suni is the real deal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:44:54 2018 No.12278813 >>12278741 >The quality of the relationship Marriage is not merely a relationship dumbo. Its a sacrament, and the basis of civilized society, not some token in a utilitarian calculation. >live and let live Oh boy...

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:55:09 2018 No.12278842 >>12276646 AJ is that you?

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 05:56:48 2018 No.12278846

>>12278741
Where to start.
>The fatal diseases argument sounds like complete propaganda. No one dies from HIV in 1st world countries at least. I'd like to see some statistics on the subject (from websites that appear legitimate).

I hope the CDC is legitimate enough for you!
>Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM)1 represent approximately 2% of the US population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV. In 2009, MSM accounted for 61% of all new HIV infections, and MSM with a history of injection drug use (MSM-IDU) accounted for an additional 3% of new infections. That same year, young MSM accounted for 69% of new HIV infections among persons aged 1329 and 44% of infections among all MSM. At the end of 2009, an estimated 441,669 (56%) persons living with an HIV diagnosis in the US were MSM or MSM-IDU.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130306124707/http://www.cdc.gov:80/hiv/topics/msm/
>Approximately 492,000 sexually active gay and bisexual men are at high risk for HIV; however, we have more tools to prevent HIV than ever before.
>In 2016, gay and bisexual men accounted for 67% (26,844) of all HIV diagnoses and 82% of diagnoses among males aged 13 and older.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

If you would like to know more about homosexuals and their diseases, the CDC is a great resource! We literally have a drug called PrEP that allows homosexuals to indulge in lots of peepee in poopoo sex with decreased chance of getting AIDS, and yet they still beat the odds!

>>12278813
Oh boy indeed!

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:07:22 2018 No.12278881

>>12276646
I don't think modern islamism is anything unique. It's very close to the radical waves that Islam has experienced cyclically since its founding. Colonization was just a trigger as the Mongol invasion of Bagdad or the gradual loss of al Andalus had been previously. Modern islamism is anything but new and there is nothing new about al Qutb's or al Qaeda's views.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:14:21 2018 No.12278905

>>12278741
>The quality of the relationship is only as good as quality of the people in the relationship. In other words

I hope the Huffington Post is a liberal enough source!
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/zach-stafford/monogamish-two-is-company_b_2664725.html?ec_carp=3215432400029092111&guccounter=1

>Men in fully monogamous partnerships showed significantly less illicit drug use and significantly reduced sexual health risk when compared to all other groups of men (single, open, and “monogamish“), suggesting a benefit to monogamy. But CHEST’s findings also indicated that non-monogamous partnerships provide other types of benefits to gay and bisexual men. Men in “monogamish“ relationships indicated lower rates of depression and higher life satisfaction when compared to single gay men.
>The Gay Couples Study ... followed 556 male couples for three years -- about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

Wow, I sure want these guys adopting kids and raising a family, because, they're just like us after all. Wait, what's that? You say they are pedophiles?
https://clashdaily.com/2013/04/homosexual-couple-face-trial-for-raping-at-least-5-of-their-9-adopted-sons/

>Homosexual Couple Face Trial for Raping At Least 5 of Their 9 Adopted Sons
What, the, FUCK, nobody said homos, were also... PEDOS!

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:16:40 2018 No.12278914

>>12278741
Of course affecting ignorance can be a convenient posture if you don't want to get a grip because it's too time-consuming to have to explain to someone from scratch the entire basis for concluding that abnormal sexual behavior is indicative of developmental problems, etc etc etc. And why bother when any amount of evidence can be shrugged off with MY GAY FRIENDS and WHAT'S WRONG WITH LOVE--and you didn't think they could fit an entire moral philosophy on a gum wrapper.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:19:16 2018 No.12278924 >>12278905 >What, the, FUCK, nobody said homos, were also... PEDOS! I swear if straight people knew what actually goes on in the gay scene with 14-15 year old boys they'd be as conservative as any muslim.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:19:36 2018 No.12278925

>>12278741
>This was a highly publicized case that dealt with a couple who were purposely trying to find a cake shop to deny them for the very purpose of bringing the issue to the light. While that doesn't change the principle of it, it's worth mentioning. What if a cake shop denied service to a black couple? IMO the cake shop should not be forced to bake the cake, or be penalized for not baking it.
But I think this issue is a non-issue.

Yeah, why was this case highly publicized, why did the homosexuals go out looking for confrontation? It's because they wished to have their Christian enemies humiliated. It was not enough to have the Supreme Court legalize homosexual "marriage" by fiat, they wanted to have the law HUMILIATE the Christian baker by forcing him to bake the cake.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:22:28 2018 No.12278929

>>12278924
Hey there bud, I think you're coming to some wrong conclusions!

>>12278741
How much more you want?
https://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_number_of_sex_partners_a_gay_man_has_in_a_lifetime

>"A.P. Bell and M.S. Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having 1,000 or more sex partners."
>"In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al., found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. The most common response, given by 21.6 percent of the respondents, was of having a hundred-one to five hundred lifetime sex partners."
>"A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than a hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than a thousand sexual partners."
>"In his study of male homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, M. Pollak found that 'few homosexual relationships last longer than two years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners.'

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:36:23 2018 No.12278967 You must first understand western degeneracy

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:39:44 2018 No.12278978 >>12276304 Read islamic books written by muslims. An infidel author will never be able to explain because they don't know the driving force behind martyrdom

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:44:48 2018 No.12278989 >>12278967 can that even be done from the inside? i feel like all self hate (just like all self love) is ideologically motivated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 06:55:27 2018 No.12279010 >>12276404 This, very existential book.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 07:17:45 2018 No.12279084 >>12278978 This. More importantly, the book must be aimed at a Muslim lectorate. Books intended for westerners are worthless and books written by western experts on Islam are even worse.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 07:52:43 2018 No.12279187 >>12276304 >extremists

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 10:01:37 2018 No.12279602

>>12277837
Nobody among the nation states is bloodthirsty. They all use exactly as much violence as they consider necessary for self perpetuation or expansion.

America would destroy the entire planet to save itself. Thats not an exagerration. It has a nuclear arsenal prepared at a moments notice to annihalate hundreds of millions. Deterrence is a fancy word for real and impending destructive power. Deterrence refers to a technological capacity to realize 1,000 Holocausts at the push of a button: a willingness to make this possible.

A nation built on a vast military, with an apocalyptic nuclear arsenal at its bloody heart, all in the name of preserving a "way of life" (itself a monstrous distortion of human nature) is Satanic.

You cant face this truth because your daily life is founded upon its falsehood. On some level you are aware of it. You could not live the life you do without America, a monster, a beast, a Leviathan straight from the depths of Hell itself, holding with its many arms swords put to the necks of children, whips enslaving whole portions of the Earth.

This is the truth the terrorists know, but they have elected to make the most unholy of battles against it. They will not succeed because the truth of their inspiration is undermined by the cruelty of their tactics. They are impatient, like all violent rebels, impatient to see results achieved in this world.

Empires have been. But none has ever been founded on such destructive power. This is Americas deal with the Devil. He will collect.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 10:07:09 2018 No.12279623 >>12279602 based. Please do not hesitate to share more insight

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 10:29:33 2018 No.12279686 >>12277440 Wait, so the ones that throw homos off of roofs, throw acid on women, kill secular journalists etc. aren’t fascists?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 10:32:47 2018 No.12279699 >>12279602 That sounds nice and all, but terrorists strike mostly in Europe. Care to explain this?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 10:33:05 2018 No.12279702 >>12276304 https://www.gwern.net/Terrorism-is-not-about-Terror This is autist writing rather than elegant /lit/ but the argument is airtight read it

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 10:46:47 2018 No.12279760

>>12279699
The true jihadis, like al qaeda, have given rise to senseless imitators who seek earthly power (isis and al baghadi). Violence always frees itself from its masters. The attacks in europe are more like american school shootings. Isis claims them only to gain headlines, to project its presence, to increase its notoriety and ultimately to gain recruits and posture itself as long armed.

America has fewer of these attacks because of a nearly airtight national security and intelligence apparatus (which has probably already recorded and catalogued the metadata of all posters in this thread).

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 10:56:48 2018 No.12279790

>>12276836
American Nationalism doesn't require blood from a Middle Eastern country. You seem to be well educated on Al Qaeda, why don't you investigate the factors involved in the American government's decision to invade and destroy ME countries. Cause it's not from an ill-fated belief in the nation-state.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 11:04:12 2018 No.12279818

>>12279790
Which countries are you referring to? It would probably be a serious oversimplification to say nationalism motivates invasions. Its more the case that nationalism veils the true purpose of the wars, which are geopolitical chess moves, economic stimulus, political craftsmanship (americans love to reelect war presidents) and to a lesser extent resource grabs.

Americans (like all people) prefer to go to war for virtue, and with justice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 11:16:39 2018 No.12279847 >>12278687 Do you mean regular as in they take a shit once a day? Are faggots less likely to suffer from constipation due to anal stretching, or more likely to suffer from constipation due to impacted fecal matter? Asking for a friend

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 11:20:04 2018 No.12279859

>>12279602
>A nation built on a vast military, with an apocalyptic nuclear arsenal at its bloody heart, all in the name of preserving a "way of life" (itself a monstrous distortion of human nature) is Satanic.

For all your hefty rhetoric you are saying lots of nonsensical things. America as a nation, was not "built on a vast military", although it's existence since 1776 has been one of off and on expansion as an empire, the vast nuclear arsenal, which preserves a threat against supposed geopolitical rivals such as Russia, is a result of the historical situation of the Cold War. It does not in fact preserve a "way of life" that is a monstrous distortion of human nature. Here you haven't even specified the "life" you wish to criticize. Of course you probably mean the incessant consumerism, materialism, and hedonism that characterizes contemporary Western society. This distortion of life however rests upon a giant network of international corporations, mass media, and unprecedented technology that allows easy, cheap international trade and the access to a high quality of material existence, but inversely proportional impoverishment of the spirit. You're rhetoric sounds similar to that of the Muslim warriors, except you've replaced jihad, with an eventual judgment day and instead of clarifying the ailments of contemporary life and offering an alternative, you wax poetically about the devil and his dues. Good post.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 11:28:27 2018 No.12279892

>>12278790
You're equating sharia law with terrorism.
As for the polling, isn't democracy fantastic until the people get what you don't want.
There's nothing wrong with the death penalty for apostasy, if you don't like it don't be muslim. There's nothing wrong with severe penalties against adultery, get a divorce if you don't like your marriage. Sharia law being applied to non-Muslims is an issue of jurisprudence, generally it's not the case and there is always a distinction in law between Muslims and non-Muslims.
None of these things are bad, and none of them are equal to terrorism, so fix your brain.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 11:28:30 2018 No.12279893

>>12279859
America did not become America until WWII. The postwar period saw the rise of American hegemony, the rise of its standard of living, and the expansion of its nuclear arsenal to apocalyptic capability.

Those three facts are entirely intertwined.

I could write you a book but many have said it already and said it much better than I can. I dont owe you an explanation of how to save the world just because I described some of its evils. I have thoughts on the subject but they would mean nothing to someone unwilling to agree on the nature of the diagnosis.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 11:44:13 2018 No.12279966

>>12279686
If that's what you think qualities of fascism amount to you need to be a good boy and study harder. Punishing homosexual acts, mutilation of women, and murdering people are not indicators of fascism. Not even going in to how these examples you've given relate to or are or are not reconciled within Islamic law.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 11:55:47 2018 No.12280019
File: 12 KB, 500x500, Fred Pepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12279893
>America did not become America until WWII.
history didn't start in 1945
>The postwar period saw the rise of American hegemony
No it did not, the Soviet Union was a significant factor in post war period. You could argue the post-Cold War saw the rise of an American hegemon.

We probably agree about the nature of the diagnosis in terms of your moral preening, but your understanding of the historical circumstances are lacking. At least in terms of how you've decided to make sweeping moral judgments and assumptions, common of lazy moralists with doomsday worldviews.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:17:33 2018 No.12280102

>>12280019
I dont care to get into the details at all. I could but im a phone poster and I hate greentext arguing, it never goes anywhere.

History is not something that merely happens independent of individual human morality. That relationship is complex, but I have always been interested in history as an explanation of how the moral template I exist within developed. I have always been disturbed by the possibility of my participation in great evil, a fear motivated by seeing the gentility which veiled southern slavery and the absorption of everyday people in the Nazi atrocities.

I can see why some would consider this reductionist, but my mind has its character and I go along with it. I have thought of myself as relentlessly self honest, and have noticed the cheap desire to be "on the right side if history" birth an enormous amount of stupid ideas (such as gay rights being a moral succesor to civil rights). I try to be aware of that.

Im not terribly interested in activism or movements. You have correctly identified me as a moralist, an odd identification given my own immorality, a riddle that is at my foundation as a person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:23:47 2018 No.12280134 >>12280102 that's pretty gay brah, you should go over to MPC and post

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:33:47 2018 No.12280190 >>12276304 Here is Osama bin Laden's ''letter to America'' where he explains his motives in detail. >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:35:30 2018 No.12280197 >>12279892 mudslime

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:39:35 2018 No.12280209

>>12279699
>but terrorists strike mostly in Europe. Care to explain this?

I think a simple answer would be geographical. Europe is easier to get to quite simply and intelligence services are probably not as good as the USAs intrusive capabilities on monitoring peoples lives. Snowden should have been listened to - not ridiculed and forced into exile. It's great the USA can be so active against 'terrorists' yet completely fails on the domestic gun violence front.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:43:28 2018 No.12280227

>>12279893
>America did not become America until WWII.

Pre-WWII America was well on the way to becoming the leading industrial power in the globe. European nations were on the wane - GB, France, Italy etc. as colonialism became more abhorrent from both a social and political perspective. The Wars (I and II) were devastating to mainland Europe. America neither suffered nearly the same fallout from those events. It's home soil was relatively safe and untouched. American hegemony was well on the way to being established before the post-WWII period as you suggest.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:52:32 2018 No.12280257

>>12278578
>Im genuinely interested, I've never heard of any type of logical argument condemning gay marriage, most certainly not from a secular mindset.

That's fine - they are out there. I guess you probably don't realise there were many gays who have spoken out against gay marriage too.

>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26634214

>Not every gay person is in favour of gay marriage. Some are against it. "I am a Conservative and a homosexual, and I oppose gay marriage," wrote the Daily Mail's Andrew Pierce in 2012. "Am I a bigot?"

>Historian David Starkey, has also said he is unconvinced. "I am torn. As an atheist gay who regards marriage as part of the baggage of heterosexual society which I have come to respect but can never fully share, I am tempted to say a plague on both your houses," he wrote in the Daily Telegraph in 2012.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 12:54:04 2018 No.12280262

>>12280227
God the contrarianism on this website is neverending. Obviously details and certain observations or analyses will be missing from a forum post. These are more an unwillingness to type paragraphs of common knowledge than a profound ignorance. I dont think its at all unfair to divide American history into pre and post wwii.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 13:04:55 2018 No.12280304 >>12276304 The Koran

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 13:14:54 2018 No.12280334 >>12276304 The Qu'ran

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 13:17:15 2018 No.12280341

>>12280262
Then you are reducing it to a dichotomy, which is wrong. The developments that lead to the current American bureaucracy and government structures, the welfare state, etc. were pioneered by the policies of FDR. The managerial state was on the rise in Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and America at the same time as demonstrated by James Burnham, and dividing history into pre- and post-WWII is an obtuse simplification. Your verbosity and general moral indictments are a cover for a lack of understanding of the topic. If you don't do your homework you can't make a proper "diagnosis" and definitely won't administer the proper "treatment".

It's not contrarianism to criticize lazy posts with the standard-issue moralisms.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 13:41:12 2018 No.12280467

>>12280341
America could not move half the world like pieces on a chessboard until Potsdam. Naturally many events gave rise to this. All historians use events like this to construct narrative arcs with explanatory power. Theoretical historians attempt to avoid it by pointing to structural or deductive causes behind events, but even they must becomes specific from time to time in order to concretize. Its unavoidable. I agree it is a good habit to supply an argument for phases. I disagree a casual discussion of history on a forum must develop them, and I think its obnoxious contrarianism to point at the weakness of the event choice.

It would be far more interesting if you would grant me certain points we agree on (grant me that America pre wwii was something in kind different from America post wwii). Then you could argue against, for example, my correlation of military dominance with the atomic bomb, or with the emergence of a postwar consumer culture.

Those three things are almost obviously connected to my mind. What do you think? The bomb gets left out of the typical narrative because people are unwilling to connect the nuclear arsenal with the material prosperity. Instead it gets explained away as an ethical necessity in Hiroshima/Nagasaki and then quickly mutates to an unfortunate but strategically necessary byproduct of the arms race. The fact that America expanded the arsenal before the Rosenberg betrayel is not discussed. The rise to military dominance is hidden by an endless mythology about the justness of WWII and the virtuous benevolence of, for example, the Marshall Plan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 14:05:53 2018 No.12280567 You mean the mind of humans? If you want politics then go to /pol/

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 14:32:00 2018 No.12280679 >>12276304 The one on the left looks like he's wearing a santa hat, hehe.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 15:03:25 2018 No.12280814 >>12276404 This is it chief

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 16:36:37 2018 No.12281223 >>12278578 not even gay people should be for it, it's larping https://harpers.org/archive/2018/01/the-future-of-queer/

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 16:50:04 2018 No.12281284 >>12278617 *than

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 16:56:13 2018 No.12281308 Whats there to understand? They are pissed off because zionists run the world and have made their lives hell

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 17:23:08 2018 No.12281404 >Another Muslim thread with 50+ IPs Are these the so called Russians invading US sites? Cyka blyat to you. >>12276836 >Al Qaeda is morally Superior to ISIS Never thought about that, thanks.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 17:42:53 2018 No.12281476

>>12278578
I saw the russian writer Zakhar Prilepin make the case (i am paraphrasing) that things like this could lead to a complete destruction of certain established values. First its gay marriage, then adoption, then the lgbt education and suddenly absurdist concepts like transgender 12 year olds are considered completely rational and normal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 17:49:36 2018 No.12281511 >>12276304 Idk i found Evola's "Metaphysics of War" to peer into what a Jihad is.

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 17:54:50 2018 No.12281546

>>12276304
>be a shitskin
>live in the middle of nowhere in extreme poverty
>constantly harassed by western countries for the last 40 years
>some random terrorists come into your village
>they give you clothes weapons money and food
>also preaching about becoming a warrior of god
>your shitty life finally has a purpose

Not that hard to understand

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 18:07:50 2018 No.12281602 >>12279892 >if you don't like it don't be muslim And then get killed for it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 18:49:26 2018 No.12281759 >>12281404 >anyone i dont agree with is a russian bot lmao, do people outside reddit think like this? Do they really think nobody would hate muzzies without russian help?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 23:51:45 2018 No.12282922 File: 124 KB, 1274x1471, THIS_IS_WHAT_MUSLIMS_ACTUALLY_BELIEVE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12279892 oh how i hate sandpeople

Anonymous Mon Dec 24 23:54:04 2018 No.12282933

>>12281602
It's not so simple. I think under sharia the apostate is put in gaol for a few (maybe 3) days and asked again if they want to leave Islam. If they don't want to die they can just lie and gtfo. It's not, properly, like a witch hunt or inquisition but I understand how people think that it might be because that's what they know and use as reference. Similarly with slavery in Islam not being necessarily whatever reference to slavery pops into your head.
If the apostate genuinely believes whatever he's leaving Islam for then if he is right he will become a martyr, if he's wrong and Islam is right then his death will protect him from going further into the depths of hell as well as other people from his lies and his example and Islam in general. Anyway, like I said, the apostate can easily avoid death punishment by lying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 24 23:59:01 2018 No.12282955 >>12282922 The wife should obey the husband when he tells her to go to bed. There's lots of legitimate source material about the rights and responsibilities of marriage in Islam.

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 00:15:01 2018 No.12283021

>>12282922
I'm sorry, but I don't see how you take the leap from that picture into "Muslims believe you should rape and behead western tourists".
I really don't care how they wish to govern themselves, they've been following Sharia law for centuries and if they wish to change it it's up to them to decide not us.
But I'm sure if you meddle with their politics and bomb them enough they will become democratic and it wouldn't just create more terrorists.

>>	Agniveer Tue Dec 25 02:19:25 2018 No.12283396 File: 81 KB, 442x693, images (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12276304 Any and every book of Dr. Vashi Sharma or Sanjeev Newar. Their Facebook statuses are overloaded with redpills

>>	Agniveer Tue Dec 25 02:21:48 2018 No.12283405 File: 72 KB, 450x682, images (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12277042 >be arab Makes sense why this entire post is so retarded

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 02:29:46 2018 No.12283423 >>12276646 I think they do have a point, but I also think the west has a point in treating formerly colonized peoples without sympathy by abandoning the concept of human rights.

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 02:50:00 2018 No.12283469

>>12283423
I do ultimately believe that the response to colonization is ultimately a form of civilizational health. The average Muslim gladly end the whole of the human race to save the black rock. That the average Westerner would not do the same to save a single column of the Parthenon shows precisely why we are lost. Our society has been uniquely ravaged by capitalism in that it turned all our morality into a sad form of suicidal masochism. We will see ourselves destroyed until it is abandoned.

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 03:17:27 2018 No.12283514
File: 306 KB, 1280x756, middle-east-balance.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12276304
You really won't get anywhere trying to understand the "mind of a Muslim extremist", mostly because the issue isn't as atomized and individualistic as the media (whether left or right) would have you believe.
Islamic extremism is a symptom of a larger disease, and to understand what prompts these people to commit such terrible atrocities you must look at the geopolitical conflict that is at play, whether it's Iran vs Saudi Arabia's cold war, or the US-Israel interventions in the region throughout the second half of the 20th century.
There is always a far wider picture to extremism, and you cannot cure a disease without identifying it's roots.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 03:33:21 2018 No.12283547 File: 33 KB, 332x499, great gamble.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Good intro into how islamic extremism comes about

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 04:23:28 2018 No.12283659

>>12278790
Adultery should be punishable. The Sharia law on non Muslims is objectively wrong since non Muslims had famous amounts of religious freedom under Muslim rule. For apostasy I reccomend you read this
https://yaqeeninstitute.org/en/jonathan-brown/the-issue-of-apostasy-in-islam/
Regardless even if these beliefs are verified by the Quran none of them advocate terrorism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 04:25:34 2018 No.12283662 >>12283405 I thinks its a bit facetious to represent Islam with Timur.

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 08:41:09 2018 No.12284235

>>12280467
The atomic bomb has been irrelevant to military dominance. How many wars as the United States won in the post world war two world? Korea ended in a stalemate. Vietnam was lost. I'll give you Granada and Iraq I, but the sequel and Afghanistan have been an endless disaster. So what if an atomic bomb sits in a silo? Our current circumstances are impacted by far more important, but less discussed social developments. You're understanding of history is flawed and you're trying to fit it into an autistic theory like an anal German philosopher. The rise of military dominance isn't hidden, it's discussed as accepted reality, despite numerous wars proving that dominance has not been established. The dominance America experienced was more economic than anything, but that has waned.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 09:03:03 2018 No.12284297 >>12284235 I dont care to argue with you about nothing. You have it all figured out so you go along and I shall too. Merry Christmas.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 09:03:30 2018 No.12284299 >>12276304 The Savanna Principle.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 09:41:56 2018 No.12284388 >>12279892 >There's nothing wrong with the death penalty for apostasy fucking lmao if you live in europe/usa, please be more vocal about your beliefs and views irl, can't wait until people like gets kicked the fuck out

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 10:03:06 2018 No.12284440

>>12276686
The Muslim community is seriously backwards in some regards and this simply has to be acknowleged. Lonely teenagers turning to terrorism and pussies murdering women because they can't take rejection is a problem. These people believe in values that are backwards as fuck and have no place in today's society. Then again white people have shit like the alright or crazy lefties although those seem to be too lazy/fat/dumb to go full violence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 12:19:05 2018 No.12284838 >>12276304 go to a big city in europe or find some muslims in america and try to deal with them for some time. even the nice ones have pretty interesting thoughts

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 14:27:19 2018 No.12285402 File: 32 KB, 319x499, 20-25-31-51ttRuJ6pnL._SX317_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12283547

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 14:35:01 2018 No.12285422 >>12277042 but why do they behead danish hikers though

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 17:13:49 2018 No.12286102 >>12278732 so whens your first service, anon?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 17:48:58 2018 No.12286293 >>12278687 I mean he laid out the intellectual precesses of a desperate retard pretty well, gotta give him that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 18:00:50 2018 No.12286344 >>12278905 >significantly less illicit drug use and significantly reduced sexual health risk It turns full-on players into little simps, monogamy sucks man

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 18:02:53 2018 No.12286356 >>12276404 >The True Believer. is this just muh ebil nazis ranting or what is it like?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 18:06:36 2018 No.12286374 >>12285422 because wamen

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 18:06:51 2018 No.12286376 >>12276304 Where those guys actually extremists or just some degenerates?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 18:53:55 2018 No.12286593 >>12276404 Is it by Eric Hoffer? There are a lot of books with that name

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 19:58:08 2018 No.12286827

>>12284388
The sharia law with regards to apostates is already established in the non-terrorist/mainstream/orthodox/traditional Islamic doctrine. Belief in the sharia law does not equal terrorism. Being a Muslim does not make someone a terrorist.
What you're suggesting is a mass deportation from whichever countries of any Muslims who believe in the sharia law, which is undoubtedly most Muslims and we may as well say all Muslims.

Is that what you're advocating, that all Muslims are to be forcibly deported? Wouldn't that be of little to no benefit, even detrimental, to these countries?

What's wrong anyway with the death penalty for apostasy, in your opinion?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 20:00:32 2018 No.12286839 >>12284440 >believe in values that are backwards as fuck Such as?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 21:41:30 2018 No.12287222 >>12279686 are you 12 mate?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 22:56:33 2018 No.12287504 File: 87 KB, 278x297, hohoho.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12276304 lmao the Christmas hat fits

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 23:06:42 2018 No.12287547

>>12279892

>There's nothing wrong with the death penalty for apostasy, if you don't like it don't be muslim.

That's a hell of a catch, that Catch-22.

If this is a serious post, which I doubt, I'd be sad that such a hilarious line was written unintentionally.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 23:08:02 2018 No.12287553 >>12286839 Ctrl-F "pew" in this very thread, sir.

Anonymous Tue Dec 25 23:11:00 2018 No.12287562

>>12277042
>be born (YOU FUCKING RETARD)
>be arab
>your kith and kin (IDIOT) are all subhuman tribalist sand niggers
>see other more peaceful civilized races in India, North Africa and europe
>feel SEETHING rage that they aren't pedophile monkeys like you
>invade and genocide them
>do so not once, not twice, not three times, but dozens of times over a thousand year period
>be Jews
>productive, thoughtful, created the foundations for your religion, high iq, funny, big tits and big PHENO
>petition European allies for state in middle east where yo ancestaz used to live
>Arabs immediately say yes, because greedy
>sell Jews lots of real estate while still in charge of the land (while Turkics, a higher race, are still in charge of the land)
>Brits take over
>tell Jews they can slowly build state
>Jews elated, finally no more persecution and alienation
>Arabs chimp out
>kill Brits who were stewarding them and preventing their fall into barbarism
>kill Jews who offer to buy out Arabs and to share state with them multiple times
>try to invade and genocide Jews multiple occasions over the next 70 years
>get BTFO'd every single time by a smaller population
>decide to cooperate with the CIA and build up terrorist networks
>attack america for shekels from Israel and America
>get mad when bombed by Israel and America
>we dindu nuffin
Lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 23:16:06 2018 No.12287587 >>12279602 You are delusional. America has been the most restrained hegemon in all of human history. It is not even an empire for fucks sake. And the heart of America is not death and destruction, it is liberty and commerce.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 23:18:03 2018 No.12287594 File: 324 KB, 1000x1500, slavoj+zizek.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12287587 Holy wew anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 23:19:09 2018 No.12287597 File: 41 KB, 980x1024, 1545400412238m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12287594 Not an argument.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 25 23:20:32 2018 No.12287604 Alamut by Vladimir Bartol

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:30:54 2018 No.12287846 >>12276304 >implying they have a single mind and not a hundreds of sets of reasoning some of them are literally there for the ride, the sexslaves, fighting, sense of purpose, others are there for money.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:34:32 2018 No.12287854 >>12287587 It's a rotten shithole that all in the future will condemn. It's a cancer upon the world, nothing redeeming about it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:35:26 2018 No.12287857 >>12287846 Wew anon White people are gross

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 00:38:36 2018 No.12287869 >>12287854 >nothing redeeming He says using the language of Americans, on a device invented by Americans on the internet developed by Americans on an American website powered by American electrical technology

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:15:23 2018 No.12287968 >>12287504 yeah, he is even wearing red.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:23:19 2018 No.12287994 File: 18 KB, 696x351, isismoroccomurders-696x351.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12286376 is there even a difference? they start as degenerates and then become extremists.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 01:53:42 2018 No.12288070 >>12278687 I’ve never witnessed such courtesy here

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 02:55:36 2018 No.12288281
File: 1.80 MB, 1920x1080, coops.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Coming from Eastern Europe and having lived in certain Muslim Countries for a while, while being centrist libtard I have come to rather controversial argument for how the radicals think:

Christianity and all its variations (atheism included) has a common denominator in Christ subjugation to its father's will. Its entire mythical reach into subconsciousness is filled with themes like: 'regret, soul searching, humility' etc... you got the idea.

On the other hand, Islamic myths, stemming from the holly quest of Prophet (that did not subjugate to anyone but himself) are filled with themes like: 'overcoming oneself, superiority, masculinity'. Every muslim guy I have ever encountered have agreed with this (inb4 anecdotal evidence)

This is, I believe, the main 'problem' from western colonial perspective with Islam

Debate me

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 05:10:54 2018 No.12288569 >>12276404 >>12286593 yeah it’s by Eric Hoffer. Forgot to add the author

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:36:57 2018 No.12288613 File: 1.32 MB, 550x8800, kikery BTFO.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12287562 >Kike confuses his delusional narrative wit actual reality

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:38:04 2018 No.12288616 File: 1.19 MB, 1350x3570, 1541226524525.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288613

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:39:07 2018 No.12288619 File: 167 KB, 682x911, 1525822152084.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288616

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:40:19 2018 No.12288621 File: 237 KB, 1061x591, 1543460720579.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288619

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:41:24 2018 No.12288623 File: 355 KB, 1158x1621, KIKEBOOK.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288621

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:42:37 2018 No.12288625 File: 2.95 MB, 3240x4320, Gittin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288623

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:44:00 2018 No.12288627 File: 3.28 MB, 3240x4320, Sanhedrin55.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288625

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:45:16 2018 No.12288630 File: 3.07 MB, 3240x4320, Sanhedrin57a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288627

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:46:29 2018 No.12288631 File: 2.95 MB, 3240x4320, Sanhedrin59.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288630

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:47:48 2018 No.12288633 File: 845 KB, 834x2023, Nobel and kikes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288631

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:48:54 2018 No.12288635 File: 172 KB, 730x537, clinton-email-syria-israel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288633

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:49:55 2018 No.12288637 File: 129 KB, 557x761, Kikes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288635

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:51:18 2018 No.12288640 File: 388 KB, 1600x1250, 1446439037551.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288637

>>	Nuke Israel Wed Dec 26 05:52:33 2018 No.12288642 File: 3.62 MB, 3884x7735, 1518211608207.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288640

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 06:28:39 2018 No.12288714

>>12276686
Did you miss the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria? And did you miss the polling across majority islamic nations regarding extremely regressive beliefs? Did you miss the institutional oppression and mutilation of women in many majority islamic nations? Did you miss the violation of basic liberties across all majority islamic nations?

Nobody is listening to what you are saying for 50 years, because you are wrong for 50 years.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:00:08 2018 No.12288768

>>12280190
This is the only good post in this thread. All the other posts are just propagandistic narratives made by various biased hostile groups who are not interested in explaining the motives and reasons, but are simply trying to state what they think the motives are.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:21:22 2018 No.12288808 >>12280190 >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver Self righteous faggots Jesus christ what a load of bs

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:30:29 2018 No.12288825 >>12280190 Based Osama bin Laden unironically did nothing wrong. >12288808 >t. asshurt ZOG puppet kike

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:37:06 2018 No.12288836

>>12286827
never mentioned terrorism. the point is that your fundamental values are so at odds with westerners that you should just pack up and leave. it would not be detrimental at all, in fact it would vastly improve the countries that you people refuse to assimilate into.

please please please talk more about your retarded medieval thoughts and opinions in real life, people need to know what you muslims are really like.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:49:58 2018 No.12288858 File: 99 KB, 800x612, TaySachs prevention.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12287562 >t. buttblasted Kike

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 07:55:59 2018 No.12288874 >>12276304 Try Julius Evola

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:11:21 2018 No.12289134 >>12286293 >intellectual precesses >To move in or be subjected to precession. just gotta roll with the punches of poop hole lovers

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 09:14:53 2018 No.12289149 >>12287854 this is a narrow view of the situation. Posters who lump the situation into "America GOOD" or "Big Country Bad" are beyond lazy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:06:46 2018 No.12289898 >>12289149 They're just smart enough to give up on the false god of "humanity." But then again, I shouldn't expect much from someone who genuinely believes in the concecept of intellectual laziness.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:09:33 2018 No.12289910 >>12287994 does ISIS have no standards? If my group were the sword of God on earth I wouldn't want it associated with greasy fucks like these.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 12:52:51 2018 No.12290130

>>12288836
>your fundamental values are so at odds with westerners
which values in particular? Consider the apostate as a traitor and it's pretty much the same. Or is it adultery, or marriage, or not eating pork, or not becoming intoxicated on alcohol. Is it regular prayer, and fasting. Is it awareness of the All-Mighty in one's daily actions and remembrance of God.
What would you have done with converts to Islam? Do the people of western countries not have freedom of religion?
I'd like to understand better your position on these things and whatever else you think is related to it rather than you just being silly with gtfo my country. I want your reasons, perhaps we are misunderstanding each other I don't know. You seem to be just advocating buying train tickets for all Muslims in western countries, and ok you're saying there's incompatible fundamental values, so please explain the difference between western values and Islamic values. A convicted traitor in the west can be put to death and this is in parallel to an apostate in Islam, if I'm wrong teach me why. Let's dialogue. Because I also really in all honesty believe that the attitude of fuck off Muslims is not going to help with the struggle against terrorism, as it's exactly what the terrorists say that you say, maybe you're a false flagging ISIS dude.
What books have you read about Islam and Muslims in the western countries? And what dealings have you had with Muslims?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:21:23 2018 No.12290261 read ''ISIS and Islam: Through the Eyes of a Former Muslim'' and ''Islamic Fascism''

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:24:38 2018 No.12290276 >>12288858

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 13:59:16 2018 No.12290448 >>12289910 lel if you identify with the thing you can claim to be part of it. its not like theres a subscription or anything like that. plus, what matters in the end is getting the job done. that is the standard.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 14:07:21 2018 No.12290476

>>12290448
No. The idea that the ends justify the means is absolutely contrary to Islam. Every single action must be justified in accordance with what Allah(swt) has revealed through His prophet(saas). Islam has established rules regarding such matters as suicide, and treatment of non-combatants in war. None of this stuff is hidden and it's easy to understand. ISIS do not practise war in accordance with Islam

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:16:51 2018 No.12290815

>>12290130
apostasy and treason are hardly the same thing. jeopardizing the lives of your countrymen and not having a belief in god is very different, only one of them have a real negative impact on other people.
the west values the individual, islamic culture values the group. as far as i can see it's this fundamental difference that causes most of the friction, in combination with islams violent and totalitarian actions.
leaving the group = death
saying the wrong thing about the groups favorite guy (mohammed) = death
bring shame on the family = death
you kill one in our group = we kill one in your group
i realize that the differences are probably due to more complex reasons than this, but i feel like its a good broad heuristic.
when i was younger i used to believe that "islamophobia" was wrong and only bigots could oppose islam and islamic culture, until i moved to a bigger city and could see the violence and death and chaos muslim immigrants bring with them up close. of course, not all of them, but enough for me to think there's a problem.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:28:50 2018 No.12290874 >>12288858 >That title Kek.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:34:28 2018 No.12290923 >>12276304 The Way of the Strangers: Encounters With the Islamic State Graeme Wood This is what youre looking for, OP.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:34:33 2018 No.12290924 >>12280190 The only truthful post in this thread.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 15:51:51 2018 No.12291062

>>12290476
ISIS practices war in accordance with Islam according to the schools of thought that Ibn Taymiyyah and Al-Talib ascribed to, both highly respected Islamic scholars.

I spoke with a Salafi mosque leader at length once before about this. I asked him, do you not think that the teaching of Ibn Tayymiyah and Talib are flawed given that it takes very little to create a society like the one ISIS created by putting them into practice? He basically said no, and would not answer the question as to whether or not apostates should be killed. He said these men were scholars, with an an understnading of the Quran that far outweighed ours, and their word was, as far their adhenets were concerned, law.

The simple fact is this. Even if IS is using an interpretation of Islam that is malignant, it is still a completely valid interpretation of Islam, it hold up to scholarly scrutiny, and IS can and has in the past mopped the floor theologically with it’s detractors. It is competely false to say that IS does not practice war in accordance with Islam. They practice war according to a very specific and entirely valid, theologically, school of Islam.

To the guy saying Jihadism is a response to Colonialism, id say that you’re not entirely wrong, but that response actually has next to nothing to do with the thought process of the actual average Jihadist fighter, they say this themselves. Look up Islamic State’s “Why We Hate You and Why We Fight You”. They are literally saying that colonial grievances are somewhere around 3rd on their list of reasons why they hate the West. The grievance narrative is only part of the picture. The people who joint these groups are not just retards, either, we can try and rationalize away the religious devotion to kill oneself in a suicide bombing by saying patently false things, like “well most suicide bombers are literally retarded”, when in reality these men all long for death, they weep with joy when their comrades die, wishing it were them.

To that guy I ask, where are the Tibetan suicide bombers? China came in and forcibly murdered a million people while annexing an entire country, so why didnt the Tibetans respond by blowing themselves up on buses or trains?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:03:44 2018 No.12291134

>>12290130
My friend, I interact with Muslims regularly, my interactions with them are more or less the same as my interactions with anyone else, aside from what I can sense to be, at times, an aura of smugness, more rarely disdain. The thing is, Islam is fundamentally at war with all other religion. It describes itself as the final revelation and seeks to impose its unique governmental and social systems onto wherever it spreads. Not just that, but this idea of East vs West is FAR more prevalent throughout the Muslim world, a large proportion of it is antagonistic towards Western society and what it values as human rights, and actively seeks to destroy this society.

According to poll results (dont even bother trying to dispute them) around 20% of all Muslims are Islamists and support the idea of an Islamist system foisting itself upon the entire world and of them a little less than half are either okay with using violence to achieve this, or find it will be necessary.

Sort out the 20% of your population that thinks in this way (which will never happen) and then maybe the West and Islam can have a better relationship. Too bad editing the book is off the table.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:07:22 2018 No.12291150 >>12280190 Based.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:09:35 2018 No.12291160 File: 899 KB, 1237x3696, Burgershits..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12280190 Based.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:09:40 2018 No.12291163 >>12276304 Huxley’s Grey Eminence, it’s about the dangers of mixing religion and politics via an extremist Christian making beautiful mystic writings all the while committing atrocities It’s not Muslim but it’s fundamentally not very different

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:13:08 2018 No.12291193 >>12291160 >posts a pic bitching about slavery >Saudi Arabia only made slavery illegal in 1962 Thats Islam for you, you ignorant fuck

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:14:53 2018 No.12291204 >>12291193 Tu Quoque fallacy isn't gonna work on me, you dumb waste of sperm.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:15:40 2018 No.12291206

>>12291062
ISIS are misinterpreting what these scholars have said.
The Imam should be more analytical in his approach to these subjects, there's no clergy outside of the Shia so there's absolutely no reason for him not to question these interpretations. ISIS don't practise war in accordance with Islam, they don't have any justification for practises such as targeted suicide bombings except from misinterpretation. They have been outlawed by the majority of the ulema precisely for these reasons amongst others. They are, or were, mostly at war with other Muslims, war which ISIS started. If you want an understanding of how any religious rulings are determined in Islam it must be made clear and apparent with appropriate sources, for example established and recognized exegesis of the Qur'an with supporting evidence in the sunnah. If you look back into the history of wars waged by Muslims you will not find that certain methods employed by ISIS have ever been used before, in that sense they are innovators.
So no, I disagree with the assertion that ISIS practise war according to a valid interpretation (or theological school), because they clearly do not. And I disagree that their interpretation (or school of thought, or sect) holds up to scholarly scrutiny, because it does not, infact they've been condemned by the majority of contemporary Islamic scholars.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:19:14 2018 No.12291217 >>12285422 >behead to get to the other side? Behead All Satans, you silly niggerkikes

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:23:58 2018 No.12291236

>>12276304
Most people are just brainwashed plebs with little intelligence, but modern Western society needs to hate Islam, because Islam and the West have the opposite values.

Islam opposes fundamental Western values such as homosexuality, gay marriage, matriarchy, abortion, female sexual promiscuity, alcohol, drugs, usury, etc... They're incompatible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:24:33 2018 No.12291240 >>12277792 Nice fearmongering, you should be a shill!

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:25:14 2018 No.12291243

>>12291134
If you read Islamic eschatology the whole world will eventually be in a golden age when Islam will be the only religion remaining. It's not 20% it's 100%. This will occur after Jesus(pbuh) returns and kills the anti-christ. It's not something which needs to be forced upon anyone, there's no compulsion in religion is what is in the Qur'an, and there's no sense in trying to make God's plan move faster than how it will move as God has determined it. I don't think you need to worry about things like this, nobody is allowed to force you to become Muslim, and if you see Jesus(pbuh) maybe you recognize him and make up your own mind. Basically it's important academically, and it's based on prophecy

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:30:27 2018 No.12291267

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqQwnqjA-6w
Listening to Bin Laden. I feel like the Sam Harris theories are more and more BS. Laden's statements here, make his statements sound more like pure vengeance towards American Imperialism and Jewish supremacy and less like Islamic Fundamentalism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:32:26 2018 No.12291276 >>12291243 My brother, why do you suffer a site like this? This place is filled with nothing but satanic immorality. Head my advice and leave before you're corrupted by the filth in here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:33:28 2018 No.12291282 >>12291267 You should read his ''Letter to America'' here>>12280190.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:37:08 2018 No.12291302

>>12291206
Whether or not you disagree with the teachings of Tayymiyah or Talib is irrelevant, millions of Muslims would violently disagree with you and would be correct in asserting that you have no ground to stand on, theologically compared to them, and well versed Salafis would mop up the floor with you like IS did with Al Qaeda. The ummah has not rejected the teaching if Tayymiyah and Talib, they are widely respected.

The simple fact is the men who created these ideas are now revered by literally millions of people and their teachings are followed religiously. The problem you have isnt in agreeing that theyre wrong, but figuring out what to do with the 200,000,000 or so people that disagree with you and literally wish death upon me. As far as what the Islamic State does in accordance with Islam, they are quite literally going by the book, enstating a government in accordance with Islamic law, administering the hadd punishments, charging non believers the jizya, executing blasphemers and unbelievers, please tell me exactly why theyre wrong, in a purely Islamic context, so I can present you with a refutation as if I were an Islamic State fighter.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:37:17 2018 No.12291303 >>12277196 If literal millions of American are dumb enough to bei manilulated completely by a secret circle of old, pedophiliac Jewish elites then the whole nation might as well be sacrificed, like the cattle you eat every day. Absolutely pathetic.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:40:33 2018 No.12291317

>>12291243
In a way I find it almost cute that you’re concerned about my soul. I honestly wish you no ill will and hope that one day you may realize that your time is better spent on other things. Thankfully, my understanding of life does not involve you residing in the Fire for all eternity, suffering torment upon torment. That would actually weigh pretty heavy on my conscience if I had reason to believe it were true.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 16:43:01 2018 No.12291328 >>12278617 How the fuck do you know who is and who isnt Muslim itt you faggot Also, trying to rationalize terrorism is not 'leftist' Kys

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 17:01:59 2018 No.12291443

>>12291282
This was unironically a hell of an argument which justified the attack.
>This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians.

That being said he would be much more understood in the West, if he didnt mention Allah every 3 sentences or so.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 17:20:12 2018 No.12291555

>>12291302
It's not a matter of disagreement with, rather that ISIS have misinterpreted the teachings of. That's what I though I made clear. As I said, for an example, the suicide bombings are wrong according to Islam.
You've basically just reworked your previous post without addressing my arguments.

Whatever, you can read the pertinent books written by the aforementioned scholars yourself, then read the summaries and commentaries from a wide range of scholars both contemporary and historically. A consensus of opinion will become apparent, then compare that consensus of opinion to what ISIS says, then look at what the contemporary scholars today say about ISIS. Go do your research and good luck.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 18:42:42 2018 No.12291917 >>12276304 >: moroccomurder video out yet?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 18:47:53 2018 No.12291947 >>12291917 what? its been there froom the start. pretty disturbing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 18:54:13 2018 No.12291975 >>12276304 The Koran

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 18:55:18 2018 No.12291978 >>12276646 You’re almost smart

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 18:56:19 2018 No.12291981 File: 653 KB, 731x1172, 5de.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12288858 >TaySachs prevention

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 18:56:33 2018 No.12291983 >>12276836 Fuck you’re stupid

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 20:44:17 2018 No.12292486 >>12291917 Yes, should be shown in 5th grade desu along with the other muzzie crap before they learn that only White people are evil

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 20:46:08 2018 No.12292493 >>12276304 I wonder what Jihadist military camps smell like when theyre probably full of arabs that have been sitting in 100F+ heat for weeks without showering.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 20:50:28 2018 No.12292512

>>12276646
Great post, but regarding the last reference
>how terrorism is the flip side of a secular modernity broadcasted and expanded through material colonialism

So its basically a book claiming that terrorism is a mechanistic causal response to the non-mechanistic expression of western agency through colonial expansion? Pretty bluepilled desu senpai.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 20:52:53 2018 No.12292521 >>12288635 >Kikes use their slave JEWsa to attack Syria to weaken Iran >Get BTFO

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 21:08:00 2018 No.12292571 >>12276304 Muhammad is the perfect muslims. He was a mass murdering pedophile who held slaves. That's all you need to know

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 21:12:45 2018 No.12292584 >>12292521 Funny how that turned out, eh Kikes?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 21:47:51 2018 No.12292695 >>12278881 This anon gets it. Islam is a warrior religion that’s purpose is to dominate the world. There is no “moderate” Islam

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 22:13:41 2018 No.12292792 >>12287587 Yeah and Brave New World does not depict a dystopia. Sure its a flawed government and flawed society, but not nearly so much as the one in which we actually live.

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 22:16:00 2018 No.12292802

>>12283514
This would make sense if those were the only countries where “terrible atrocities” by colonial powers have taken place. Have you ever hear of Indian terrorists attacking the UK, Congolese in Belgium? If this hypothesis is true why are there not thousands of Vietnamese commiting acts of terror against the US. Why no South Americans against their occupiers? Could it be something else inciting violence in the Middle East?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 22:17:46 2018 No.12292807 >>12288714 This anon gets it

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 22:19:55 2018 No.12292811 >>12291062 Based poster

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 22:21:28 2018 No.12292819 >>12291302 You are so based

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 26 22:29:27 2018 No.12292845 Any good books on the Soviet-Afghan war?

Anonymous Wed Dec 26 23:08:42 2018 No.12293009

>>12278578
Gay marriage as a legal institution creates a shelter for propertypooling and insurance shenanigans under pretext of homofaggery.

It becomes an easy way to evade obligations or transfer assets as "matrimonial gifts".

Civil cases dealing with such exploits of law is going to skyrocket when niggers figger out they can cheat Da Man in this way. Think DivorceCourt tier greedydumbniggers times a billion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:08:40 2018 No.12293200 >>12293009 >Gay marriage as a legal institution creates a shelter for propertypooling and insurance shenanigans under pretext of homofaggery. And why is this an issue when hedro-fags can do the same?

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:35:35 2018 No.12293283

>>12293200

Aside from a minimal x 200% of marriage status golddiggerniggering, it is much less likely for a man and woman to collude in this way to cheat the system than two men or two women. Samesex teams makes better teamwork.

Is it more likely that me and a bro pretend to be fags for tax shelter, or me and a ho? Being a man, i can trust a random bro more than a random ho not to turn state evidence.

I'm not picking on the marriage for love idea; different discussion. I'm just going on ownership of money and property.

Say i am a rich man, havent found a wife yet. I dont want a golddiggerho to gut me in future and i know showing my dates a prenup scares 70% of them off. So i collude with a bro: marry me and divorce for infidelity. Now he has a alimoney claim on me, plus a heap of "matrimonial gifts" (like my Rolexes and yaught, say) safeguarding it from any possible alimoney claims by a future goldiggerthotniggra.

Assuming my bro is a total bro, trustworthy and shit, my property is now legally protected.

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:38:49 2018 No.12293288

>>12291062
>ISIS practices war in accordance with Islam

Proscriptions on the murder of civilians and women are well established in Islamic views of war. The Koran explicitely forbids the burning of churches and synagogues.

I have seen press reports about ISIS burning churches, and also beheading civilians, executing children and forcing women into sex slavery.

None of these actions are possible to justify from an Islamic point of view.

Many have criticized my argument that colonialism causes fundamentalism. I can see why some find this point problematic and I wish I had been more precise.

Collonialism as a material and historical phenomenon only does so much to cause fundamentalism. The real problem is ideological (in the philosophical sense of material vs. Ideology). What it ends up doing is importing modernity into traditional societies.

The friction between the remnants of the traditional society (which is never fully destroyed) and the new modern worldview creates the kind of political turmoil that can eventually become what we see in contemporary Jihadi terrorism.

Jihadi terrorism is born from the friction caused by the simultaneous presence of a traditional (Ottoman classical Islam) and a modern (metaphysical materialism, science) worldview.

To grasp my point you need to understand that colonialism was not merely setting up shop in Syria, or installing governors in Egypt, or toppling the Shah in a CIA coup. It was not the arrival of Coca Cola and Elvis records. It was the arrival of a modern western worldview that in time became largely adopted, thus undermining the traditional order of society (Islamic down to the finest detail). The remnants of the traditional order are in an uneasy friction with the new modern order. This can create all sorts of things-- hybrids (the Iranian Republic, Pan Arab Socialis) as well as violent backlashes. Its complicated beyond any description in forum posts. Think of how early anti-Israeli armed groups like Fatah were socialist, how Marxism thrived in Afghanistan at one point. And never forget that, while Islam has existed some 15 centuries, suicide bombings began in 1989.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:45:57 2018 No.12293312 >>12293009 >tfw DL culture and Homosexual white collar crime synthesize to produce the most Jewish dystopian drain on Leviathan’s capacity to enforce the Law since they made corporation’s citizens and allowed women to pretend to be raped for MILLIONS

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:51:21 2018 No.12293335 >>12286827 >Is that what you're advocating, that all Muslims are to be forcibly deported? Yes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:52:51 2018 No.12293341 >>12290130 >What would you have done with converts to Islam? Do the people of western countries not have freedom of religion? Your own system doesn't offer that, why should ours?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:56:10 2018 No.12293360 >>12293312 Not disagreeing with you. It's crapsack. What then, whine and die? No: work out something comfy for Team You.

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:57:48 2018 No.12293363

>>12293288
They would laugh in your face.
They will quote the Hadith that legitimizes killing infidels. Are you really trying to claim that Isis made up the idea of beheading kufar? You’re not fooling anyone here. The problem with fundamentalist Islam are the fundamentals of Islam.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 00:58:58 2018 No.12293368 >>12293360 Yas queen, secure that baggggg

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:04:55 2018 No.12293393

>>12293288
>It was the arrival of a modern western worldview that in time became largely adopted, thus undermining the traditional order of society (Islamic down to the finest detail).

So basically they hate our freedom.

You also haven’t answered the crucial post which pretty much shatters your argument. Where are the Tibetan terrorists? Where are the Vietnamese terrorists? Where are the Congolese terrorists?

Suicide bombings is your proof?

Modern terrorism begins in 1801.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

“It was written in their Koran, (that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this ”

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:06:37 2018 No.12293400

>>12293363
Again, Islam has existed for nearly 15 centuries, the first suicide bombing was in 1989.

Dante put Muhammed deep in Hell because he thought he was an imposter. But he put Saladin in Limbo with Aristotle because the medieval Christians loved him for not slaughtering the crusaders, even though the crusaders massacred Jerusalem.

The world is more complicated than that my friend, you will need more stamina in the face of complexity if you would seek to know truth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:09:21 2018 No.12293406 >>12293400 You are limiting Islamic terror to suicide bombing for some ridiculous reason

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:09:30 2018 No.12293409 >>12293341 Why should western countries maintain freedom of religion. Why do they have freedom of religion in the first place. >>12293363 Which hadiths are you referring to?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:10:23 2018 No.12293413 >>12293400 You totally sidestep the obvious points being made

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:10:23 2018 No.12293414

>>12293393
It is not my job to write essays for you, especially when you seem intent on making the most stupid reading possible out of what I've already written. Go read some books.
Start here:
>>12276665

I read about half of those books.

(And Wikipedia is not a source)

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:10:38 2018 No.12293415 >>12293406 No he is not. He is using it as but one example

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:11:57 2018 No.12293419 >>12293413 I dont do 4chan arguments it's a waste of my time. You will not goad me into an endless back and forth, be gone.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:12:30 2018 No.12293420 >>12293414 Wikipedia is a fine source...it’s 2018 Again you are refusing to acknowledge glaring points.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:13:32 2018 No.12293427 >>12293419 >I don’t acknowledge points that refute my argument

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:14:31 2018 No.12293429 >>12293419 Not him and you're right. Wisdom will not win an argument with a fool.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:15:42 2018 No.12293431 >>12293429 TFW he doesn’t realize he’s the fool

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:18:06 2018 No.12293441 >>12293409 The same hadith that describes beheading "kufars" of course.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 01:20:38 2018 No.12293451 You're not capable enough for /lit/ please gtfo

Anonymous Thu Dec 27 02:22:07 2018 No.12293637

>>12293363
I don't see the problem. Islam destroys other cultures it comes in contact with and permanently removes them as rivals for cultural dominance. Aggression is very competitive behavior.
You're belief that prey have some right not be eaten by predators is the problem. You are not competitive. Genocide is the optimal survival strategy. People only insist it is wrong as a way of trolling stronger cultures into using it on them or they genuinely lack the conviction in their own strength to do it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 02:35:31 2018 No.12293670 >>12293637 You're insane. I'm saying that soberly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 27 06:39:09 2018 No.12294319 File: 83 KB, 960x533, 1515547141455.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12293637 This.

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/lit/ - Literature